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Posted: 8/6/2001 6:53:05 AM EDT
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010803/hl/guns_1.html US Law Officers May Store Guns UnsafelyHome - Yahoo! - My Yahoo! - News Friday August 3 5:45 PM ET US Law Officers May Store Guns Unsafely By Alan Mozes NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - With gun control a hot topic of debate for police, lawmakers and public health experts alike, a survey of one law enforcement agency in the US shows that many officers keep a loaded and unlocked personal firearm in their homes. The results from a survey of officers in a Southern enforcement agency found that 80% had a firearm in addition to their service gun. Of those, 60% of the officers stored their guns unlocked, 68% kept their guns loaded and about 44% said they stored their guns both unlocked and loaded. ``I have a very high regard for law enforcement,'' said study lead author Dr. Tamera Coyne-Beasley, a professor at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill. ``They really do put their lives on the line for citizens daily...But that doesn't mean that law enforcement doesn't need to do better storing their guns.'' In the study, Coyne-Beasley and colleagues surveyed more than 200 officers at an agency between November and December of 1998. About 90% were male, 60% were white and 55% had children. Of the 80% that kept personal firearms--mostly handguns--in their homes, half said they kept guns for self-protection. ``Officers' storage practices were more lax than those of the general population of firearm owners throughout the South,'' the researchers report in the August issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. About 18% of gun owners in the South are thought to store their guns both unlocked and loaded, compared with 44% of officers in the survey. However, officers with children were more likely to report that they kept their guns locked up and 65% said they stored the firearms unloaded. Coyne-Beasley and her colleagues conclude that the presence, easy accessibility, and relatively unsafe storage of guns among law enforcement households make adult family members and their children more vulnerable than the average American family to firearm-related injuries. ``Anyone who uses guns at work should really store their personal guns safely,'' Coyne-Beasley told Reuters Health. ``In particular, many officers have this false sense of security about their children's behavior. They think that their children won't touch the gun because they told them not to or that they've hid it well so that their child can't find it.'' Coyne-Beasley recommends that officers consider storing their guns in a lock-box or a gun safe. ``And I think we need to really advance the technology with gun safety...by using locks and personalizing guns to make them inaccessible to children or anybody besides the gun owner,'' she said. SOURCE: American Journal of Preventive Medicine 2001;21:1-6. Copyright © 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:16:06 AM EDT
I keep my defensive firearm accessible at all times. Safety on, bolt open, mag loaded.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:22:57 AM EDT
Locked and unloaded is some liberal loser's definition of safe storage. As a cop, my defintion of safe storage is loaded, unlocked, ready to rock, yet inaccessible to children.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:42:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2001 7:39:16 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Who let the HCI guy in here?? What are you trying to say warlord nobody should have guns at home?? Or maybe you don't want anyone to have guns. What good is a defensive handgun unless it is accesible and has ammo?? Old Texas Ranger carryin "cocked-locked" 1911 .45, Younger Texas Ranger sees weapon and says that's a dangerous weapon (refering to condition 1 carry). Older Ranger replies "That's why I carry it". Take your anti-gun propaganda elsewhere.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:46:27 AM EDT
Oly, you misunderstand. This is just another cop-bashing thread.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:49:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2001 7:50:27 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
No I got it, but in his zeal to bash cops he has done a pretty good job on gun owners. Because if we can't expect cops to safely handle weapons who can we trust??
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:57:47 AM EDT
And this is supposed to surprise someone? Its already pretty apparent that the FBI stores many of their machineguns unsafely as well, to have as many dissappear as they have. If I had gotten two or three of my machineguns stolen and didn't tell anybody I would be in a world of hurt. Why shouldn't it apply to them just the same? Michael- with a gun locked and loaded about 2' away
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:02:12 AM EDT
Well isn't that just dandy. You'll have to look hard to find a more pro-RKBA guy than me. I keep my firearms locked-up because there are three children under 10 in my home. I keep my rifles, shotguns and handguns locked-up because I choose to, not becuase some gov't-type tells me I have to. I believe it's your choice as to how you treat your guns. Common-damn-sense. So last week in my small Texas town the seven year-old daughter of a fireman, reserve police officer and CHL instructor picks up a 9mm her father left on a table and blows her head off. The seven year-old's mother was in the same room with her head stuck in a computer screen and didn't notice what was going down. The father says he put the 9mm and ANOTHER handgun on the table to clean later. The other handgun was unloaded. So the local District Attorney gives the LEO father and mother the pass and says it was an "accident". ACCIDENT MY ASS! That little girl is dead because her parents were negligent. Both of them. So I still believe how you store your firearms is your business. But with rights go responsibilities and just because your an LEO doesn't mean you get a pass. Just my $.02.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:11:26 AM EDT
Arock, absolutely correct. If common sense is so rare why do they call it "common"? I'm not sure that they gave anyone a "pass" due to their employemnt. One of the recent news articles linked to the front of this site described a similar lawsuit. Mentally ill adult child living with parents get their unlocked loaded handgun. He goes on a little rampage and shoots and kills a deputy. The deuputy's family sues the killers parents saying they had a responsibilty to keep the gun away from their son. The suit was dissmissed by an appeals court sayin that the parents werent responsible for the acts of the son that used their unsecured gun. You should be able to decide what is the best storage for your situation and be responsible for your decisions.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:29:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: You should be able to decide what is the best storage for your situation and be responsible for your decisions.
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It is called PERSONAL RESPONSABILITY. The charging of an individual whose family member has been killed by a "unsecured gun" is just as DELICATE a DECISION as charging someone for a accidental drowning in home swimming pool. The person "responsable" is under a LIFE SENTENCE of grief and guilt. The STATE can not inflict a more painful punishment.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:37:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2001 8:36:18 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
So we agree. Although I'm not sure the parents of a mentally ill adult child that leave a gun around have that guilt, I would almost bet that they feel it is unfair that he is in prison becuase they think the deputy did something wrong, the state should have provided treatment for their son, or something like that.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:49:32 AM EDT
OLY-M4gery, I hope you're correct. Maybe being the father of three young children I'm over-sensitive about kids. But the latest rash of kids being cooked alive in cars and locked like animals in dark closets has me more than upset. I'm mad as hell at some of what passes for parents these days. And I want those parents that make children suffer to get what's due them. I know it's all about common sense and thought I'd never say such a thing, but when a kid's involved you've got to do better, LEO or not.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:03:42 AM EDT
Absolutley no arguement. My point about weapons storage is that if you have several kids at home your sensible storage solution is probably far different than someone who is 25 and lives alone. About 2 yrs ago a 14 yr old broke into a business and stole a handgun he showed it off to several people and after about a day of having it shot and killed a neighbor child. He was arrested and sent away. The owner of the business was not charged for "negligent storage" after the DA's office reviewed tha case for several months. The business owner lost his business due to legal fees. He was sued civily and lost, with a judgement of 100K+. Was he negligent? It was a locked alarmed business. If a gun is in a secured building isn't it secured? Another 1 a 10yr old neighbor goes over a 7 yr olds house, no parents present, they were at work. The 10 yr old finds a .22 rfle, used for varmints, and accidentally shoots the 7 yr old. The 7 yr old dies. The 10 yr old runs home police/ems are called. The mother and father of the victim seperate and divorce, having a tough time dealing with the death. No one is charged in the incident. About a year later the victim's mom tries to shoot herself. The victim's dad takes the gun away as she fires a shot, and barely misses. He leaves with the gun. After a little bit the neighbors call police concerned about her. The victim's dad didn't think to call police because he took the gun away. He says that the death of his 7 yr old was murder, and the other kid got away with it. Was it murder? Can a 10 yr old really know what he is doing in that situation? Should the gun have been accesible? Should someone have been charged?
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:05:36 AM EDT
My point remains that this is HCI like propaganda and in the zeal to bash LEO's he just bashed gun owners. I keep hearing about the whole LEO's vs Us thing. This is how it starts. And look who is doing it.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 10:37:54 AM EDT
Oly said: "Was it murder? Can a 10 yr old really know what he is doing in that situation? Should the gun have been accesible? Should someone have been charged?" Murder, no. The real question is "Should the gun have been accessible", the answer is NO. In Texas, it is against the law to leave a firearm accessible to a child, also against all common sense. I lecture my gun-owning friends with children about locking up their loaded guns, most agree and will get a gun safe or something similar. A few hard headed individuals seem to think it's an infringement of their right, or they think they have intimidated their children enough that they would be too scared of dad's ass-whupping to touch a gun. I grew up with a very strict father that went with the intimidation method, it didn't work, I would unload a gun, play with it, and load it and put it back. He never knew until a year or so ago I was telling him to make sure all his guns were locked up as my children spend alot of time at their house. He went into his rant about teaching kids, blah, blah, blah. I told him about playing with his guns when I was a child despite his threats, he was pissed but went right out and bought a nice safe. I know a few of you are just like good ol' dad. Don't get me wrong, I take my kids shooting and go over gun safety all the time. Am I gonna trust my 7 year old in the house with a cocked & locked 1911 sitting in my nightstand drawer, no. My wife even quit working when we started having kids, but with 3 kids at home, it would be easy for one of them to run back into my room and get a few seconds of unsupervised time (all it takes). I'm not taking any chances when it comes to guns and my kids. Hell I even keep all my poisons & chemicals (household cleaners, etc..) locked up and my swimming pool gated, locked and covered when not in use.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 4:46:41 PM EDT
I think some of you are berating warlard falsely. I think its a case of shooting the messenger. He was just reporting a news article written by someone else. (I think, but if I'm wrong he's an HCI dick) [;P]
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 4:53:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2001 4:51:05 PM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Not berating him falsely. He posted to bash cops, and in his zeal didn't realize, know, or care that he was also bashing regular gun owners with the anti-gunner propaganda. On this site may people say gun owners, as a group, should stick together. Hunters shouldn't say it's ok to ban .50 cals and target shooters shouldn't say hunting is an evil sport. What warlord did/does was just the opposite of that ideal. If he uses anti-gunners literature to berate other gun owners his is an anti-gunner.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:13:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: Who let the HCI guy in here?? What are you trying to say warlord nobody should have guns at home?? Or maybe you don't want anyone to have guns. What good is a defensive handgun unless it is accesible and has ammo??
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Sorry, I didn't mean this to be "cop bashing," and of course I am not anti-gun. The reason I posted this story is because of the old saying "keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer." You have got to know what the antis are saying and/or doing, because by the time some of the $hit affects you personally, it will be too late to do anything about.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:12:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: Who let the HCI guy in here?? What are you trying to say warlord nobody should have guns at home?? Or maybe you don't want anyone to have guns. What good is a defensive handgun unless it is accesible and has ammo??
View Quote
Sorry, I didn't mean this to be "cop bashing," and of course I am not anti-gun. The reason I posted this story is because of the old saying "keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer." You have got to know what the antis are saying and/or doing, because by the time some of the $hit affects you personally, it will be too late to do anything about.
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Ok, maybe, yeah, I guess. I was a little vigorous in my response, sorry. Just getting a liitle tired of the them versus us stuff.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:07:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord: In the study, Coyne-Beasley and colleagues surveyed more than 200 officers at an agency between November and December of 1998. About 90% were male, 60% were white and 55% had children. Of the 80% that kept personal firearms--mostly handguns--in their homes, half said they kept guns for self-protection. ``Officers' storage practices were more lax than those of the general population of firearm owners throughout the South,'' the researchers report in the August issue of the [B]American Journal of Preventive Medicine[/B]. About 18% of gun owners in the South are thought to store their guns both unlocked and loaded, compared with 44% of officers in the survey . . . SOURCE: American Journal of Preventive Medicine 2001;21:1-6.
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The American Journal of Preventive Medicine like he American Medical Assoc. is strongly anti-gun.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:21:01 AM EDT
I keep a loaded 9mm under my pillow for self preservation. However, I don't have kids. If I did I would have to change my ways. mattjedi[x]
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