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Posted: 1/3/2006 4:44:31 AM EDT
Too bad it was Maryland and all the sheep had to be disarmed.


50 robbed at gunpoint during service

(AP) BEL AIR, Md. Harford County sheriff's deputies continue to search for the armed man who took cash and valuables from worshippers during a church service Sunday evening near Bel Air.

Investigators were back in the Fountain Green community last night looking for clues.

The gunman robbed about 50 people at Mount Zion United Methodist Church in the 1600 block of Churchville Road. He was wearing dark clothing and a ski mask.

No one was hurt.

Harford County Crime Solvers is offering a cash reward of up to $1,000 for information leading to the arrest of the person responsible.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:46:33 AM EDT
Unfortunately, if what I've heard is true, it is illegal to carry in church in the state of Michigan.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:49:19 AM EDT
Exact same thing happned here about a month ago in a Catholic Church
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:51:53 AM EDT
By default, CCW isn't allowed in places of worship in Ohio "unless the place of worship permits
otherwise."
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:06:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Unfortunately, if what I've heard is true, it is illegal to carry in church in the state of Michigan.hr


Like Ohio, you can carry concealed in a church in Michigan with permission. I think it's kinda stupid, personally, but I don't make the rules.

-James
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:09:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Meta4:

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Unfortunately, if what I've heard is true, it is illegal to carry in church in the state of Michigan.



Like Ohio, you can carry concealed in a church in Michigan with permission. I think it's kinda stupid, personally, but I don't make the rules.

-James



Well then, the situation is better than I had heard it was originally. What exactly constitutes "permission"? Does it have to be posted, or could you just talk to the pastor and see what he says?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:11:33 AM EDT
One cannot legally carry in a church in Maryland? Packing.org is down.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:15:54 AM EDT
I get paid to.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:18:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jaltered:

One cannot legally carry in a church in Maryland? Packing.org is down.




One can't legally carry in Maryland PERIOD.


Unless you are an LEO, carry lot's of money, or are very well connected politically, it's impossible to get a CCW in Maryland.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:18:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jaltered:
One cannot legally carry in a church in Maryland? Packing.org is down.



One cannot legally carry in Maryland, basically. You have to prove a need, like carrying large sums of cash, or having documented threats against your life(assuming they didn't succeed the first time). Practically impossible from what I've heard. One of the big reasons I don't live there anymore.

Of course, if a church is considered private property, maybe you can get away with it, but you won't be able to carry to and from.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:23:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:23:46 AM EDT
I was posting a link to the article on my blog, and wanted to get my facts straight:

www.xanga.com/jaltered
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:27:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SnoopisTDI:

One cannot legally carry in Maryland, basically. You have to prove a need, like carrying large sums of cash, or having THREE documented threats against your life(assuming they didn't succeed the first THREE time).




Fixed it
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:28:17 AM EDT
Should you? Absolutely! No law against it here in MA....


....well, not yet, anyway.....
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:30:03 AM EDT
I always carry.I Know God will win, but I will help hold them off till he gets there.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:30:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:31:50 AM EDT
Only God knows
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:33:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:57:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:


Most (almost all) churches are also classified as schools.

And I do believe schools are verboten all the way across the board.




Not in Pennsylvania.


Remember, that Federal 1000 foot bullshit got struck down.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:02:07 AM EDT
I don't live in a state that I can carry...I did see a news segment about Virginia's CHL law and they don't allow church carry IIRC(any VA members can correct me if I'm wrong.)
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:04:47 AM EDT
Can't carry in GA churches either. Somehow, I think the perp knew that chances of the churchgoers being armed was nil to none. It's safe to assume that law-abiding citizens follow the law while criminals exploit the law and any loopholes they can find.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:05:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 6:09:01 AM EDT by rcoers]
I don't go to church - but I did carry when I was a groomsman at a wedding. I had one buddy say, "in a church..." as if criminals' morals stipulate that they will only knock off "wicked" places like liquor stores.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:11:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:
OK here is the fly in the ointment for all you guys who plan to pack your "Heat" next Sunday.

Most (almost all) churches are also classified as schools.

And I do believe schools are verboten all the way across the board.

That being said, I heard a quote the other day that will pretty well define my carry habits in the oncoming years.


I can get out of trouble, but I cant get out of DEAD!


As usual, your mileage may vary and this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.


If there is no school attached to the church, then how can it be classified as a school?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:14:32 AM EDT
The fact that crime can occur anywhere should tell you what I think.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:15:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:
OK here is the fly in the ointment for all you guys who plan to pack your "Heat" next Sunday.

Most (almost all) churches are also classified as schools.



Source??



And I do believe schools are verboten all the way across the board.

That being said, I heard a quote the other day that will pretty well define my carry habits in the oncoming years.


I can get out of trouble, but I cant get out of DEAD!


As usual, your mileage may vary and this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.



I don't believe churches are classified as schools in Virginia. I would be suprised to find out that they were in other states.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:16:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 6:20:13 AM EDT by Hokie]
All priests should be armed....except for Catholic priests....
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:19:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 6:20:19 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By deej86:
I don't live in a state that I can carry...I did see a news segment about Virginia's CHL law and they don't allow church carry IIRC(any VA members can correct me if I'm wrong.)



The Virginia statute specifies that one cannot carry in church during a service "without good and sufficient reason."

What exactly "good and sufficient reason" means is open for debate, but being security for the finance comittee fullfills "good and sufficient reason" to my way of thinking, as does preventing our church from becoming another in a long line of churches that are robbed.

Criminals love hitting churches. They figure people are least likely to resist them in church. Good thing they didn't show up in my church. They would have been shot.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:31:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By deej86:
I don't live in a state that I can carry...I did see a news segment about Virginia's CHL law and they don't allow church carry IIRC(any VA members can correct me if I'm wrong.)



The Virginia statute specifies that one cannot carry in church during a service "without good and sufficient reason."

What exactly "good and sufficient reason" means is open for debate, but being security for the finance comittee fullfills "good and sufficient reason" to my way of thinking, as does preventing our church from becoming another in a long line of churches that are robbed.

Criminals love hitting churches. They figure people are least likely to resist them in church. Good thing they didn't show up in my church. They would have been shot.


Thanks for the clarification. But does it mean that without his/her approval the pastor would probably frown upon one of his/her memers having a CHL in church?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:31:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:34:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By deej86:

Thanks for the clarification. But does it mean that without his/her approval the pastor would probably frown upon one of his/her memers having a CHL in church?




My pastor knew that I and another gent packed every sunday
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:36:25 AM EDT
Just one more great reason to live in Texas.

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:39:08 AM EDT
SC forbids carry in church too.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:39:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
The Virginia statute specifies that one cannot carry in church during a service "without good and sufficient reason."



There is a 10,000% chance that YOU, ME or any other Virginia citizen will not be allowed to determine a "sufficient reason" if caught with a gun concealed at a church and we didn't need it to defend ourselves. Guaranteed.

HOWEVER, if I am carrying, the place is being robbed and I blast the robber{s}, I'm pretty sure I can prove a "sufficient reason" -- you think?

It's a moot point for me mostly, as I don't attend church.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:40:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By deej86:
Thanks for the clarification. But does it mean that without his/her approval the pastor would probably frown upon one of his/her memers having a CHL in church?



Most pastors probably would frown upon people carrying in church.

Mine does not.

Frankly, I wouldn't tell the pastor or anyone else that you are packing. What they don't know won't offend them.

Most people do not understand the motivations or intentions of those of us who carry firearms, even decent folks who are otherwise sane and reasonable, so it is best that nobody knows.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:41:25 AM EDT
Everyone should read the book "SHOOTING BACK".

It tells of a terrorist attack in a church in south africa.

The author was armed and shot back at the attackers.

Presents spiritual reasons for protecting yourself.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:43:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:Most people do not understand the motivations or intentions of those of us who carry firearms, even decent folks who are otherwise sane and reasonable, so it is best that nobody knows.
And there's the bottom line. 100% agreement.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:46:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
There is a 10,000% chance that YOU, ME or any other Virginia citizen will not be allowed to determine a "sufficient reason" if caught with a gun concealed at a church and we didn't need it to defend ourselves. Guaranteed.



The best advice that I can give is to befriend your pastor so that if it ever is discovered that you are packing that nobody freaks out about it.

Nobody in my church knows for sure that I carry while in church, but they do know that I own guns and that I have lots of training with those guns and that I have no problem using my weapons for self defense. I have demonstrated charachter enough that if I did show up to church openly carrying nobody would bat an eye.



HOWEVER, if I am carrying, the place is being robbed and I blast the robber{s}, I'm pretty sure I can prove a "sufficient reason" -- you think?



That is one of the reasons I cite handling the church finances. I help count the money, keep the records, and make deposits. I never handle even a fraction of those sums of money unarmed. What is worse is that the deposits are done the same time EVERY Sunday night, which is something I have been trying to break up to no avail.

I am the ONLY guy on the committee that carrys while doing any of this.

If I am hassled by the police (unlikely) I can refer back to my handling of the money and to my pastor asking me to provide security for the services.

It is not unheard of for some derranged demon posessed lunatic to shoot up our churches....
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:55:49 AM EDT
I'm a preacher.

1. All of y'all are invited to Sunday services anytime your in the area.
2. As far as I'm concerned, feel free to carry when you're here.

That said, I think Missouri prohibits carrying in churches. What I've been wondering is whether or not there are any exceptions for me since I work here. I did see one thing that implied any CCW could carry here, but not sure. Anyone know?

At my last church one of the ladies was relieved to find out I carried. She said she hadn't felt quite as comfortable at church since my father-in-law died. He was a police officer who carried constantly. Of course that church had also had a marriage counseling session develop into a hostage situation that ended when IIRC the Senior Pastor disarmed the hostage taker. That tends to make the congregation a little more sympathetic to people who carry.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:56:36 AM EDT
I don't see why not... the disciples carried 1911s after all didn't they?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:58:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Unfortunately, if what I've heard is true, it is illegal to carry in church in the state of Michigan.



You need the permission of the presiding elder or pastor. I know people who carry in my church.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:00:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By w4klr:
I don't see why not... the disciples carried 1911s after all didn't they?





Nope. Glocks. They were after all, students of perfection.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:01:42 AM EDT
When I get my CCW, I'm carrying everywhere I won't get arrested for doing so. Period. I see no reason to compromise MY safety just because someone else has a stick up their ass.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:06:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 8:07:14 AM EDT by photoman]
They don't do stick ups in churches around here, they just commit mass murders....


No pun intended.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:07:21 AM EDT
The church that got robbed is about 15 miles from my house. Fortunately there is a state line between us too. I bet all the locals will be packing in church in my town this Sunday morning.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:16:15 AM EDT
When I went to church, I CCW.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:41:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By One_Slayer:
I always carry.I Know God will win, but I will help hold them off till he gets there.



He already sent you (ahead of time).

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:50:28 AM EDT
No one should CCW anywhere!

CCW is for James Bond wannabe's and that's it. Normal, honest people don't need to carry around guns for protection. Only criminals and troublemakers need to carry guns.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:52:48 AM EDT
It's between me and God.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:56:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lancelot:

Originally Posted By w4klr:
I don't see why not... the disciples carried 1911s after all didn't they?





Nope. Glocks. They were after all, students of perfection.




Exactly.

I'm not sure where the Glock statement fits in though.

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:18:58 AM EDT
I carry every Sunday. Legal here, and no one else at Church even knows. Well, the pastor does, but he is all for it. Sometimes he carries. His wife carries too.

Small town life really is hard to beat.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:48:46 PM EDT
UUUMMMMM Clears throat And Jesus don't like killing no matter what the reasons for

And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore!!!!!!


John______ )


Bob
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