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Posted: 1/1/2006 12:25:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 1:21:10 PM EDT by Msokol13]
Will be used for :target range/Elk Hunting/Varmint hunting.

-20" AR15 (1/7 twist) will have optics.
-REM. 700 PSS (308) will have optics.
-Polytech M14 (will most likely have optics)


Looking at these setups as they are right around $1,000 or less. I can't buy all of them so which would be the best out of these packages?

Thanx

PS I have OHIO listed as my state but I am leaving tonight to live in Arizona.


Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:34:55 PM EDT
I'd check the elk hunting states' reg. Don't think a .22 cal is allowed.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:36:38 PM EDT
Thinking that you can reliably take an elk with a .22 caliber anything, is just plain idiocy.

.308, on the other hand, can take an elk easily. I would go with the Remington 700.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:37:31 PM EDT
Of the choices listed, the 20" AR15 is the best all-around rifle, no question.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:38:44 PM EDT
M1A with a scope
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:38:49 PM EDT
223 is to limiting for use on Elk even if it is legal in your state I would go with an Armalite Ar-10 in 308
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:39:09 PM EDT
.223 is no way gonna stop an elk! You need something on the lines of an 06 or .308.

That being said, the700 is likely the best choice....unless you run across a G3 reasonable.

When in doubt....get em ALL!
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:39:46 PM EDT
Garand!
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:41:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
.223 is no way gonna stop an elk! You need something on the lines of an 06 or .308.

That being said, the700 is likely the best choice....unless you run across a G3 reasonable.

When in doubt....get em ALL!



actually at close range with a properly placed round a 22 lr can cleanly kill an Elk much less a 223 but for normal hunting scenario a round with more penetration is desired.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:43:44 PM EDT
AR with 18" barrel in 6.8SPC
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:47:19 PM EDT
I would go with a Rem 700 PSS for target and Elk might be a little too much for varmint
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:58:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
.223 is no way gonna stop an elk! You need something on the lines of an 06 or .308.

That being said, the700 is likely the best choice....unless you run across a G3 reasonable.

When in doubt....get em ALL!



actually at close range with a properly placed round a 22 lr can cleanly kill an Elk much less a 223 but for normal hunting scenario a round with more penetration is desired.



Dude, I guided Elk hunts professionally and if some dude brought a .223 on an elk hunt....I wouldn't have taken him out hunting.

Most times Elk hunting is either a snap shot in the black pines or a long range shot. In neither case would a .223 stop an elk. You need WAY more hydrostatic shock via grain weight than a .223 is capable of producing. A 180 grain projectile will kill an elk....a 70 grain projectile most likely won't. An Elk is as big as a freaking horse for crying out loud.

I shot a cow elk 4 times at about 50 feet with a .41 magnum.....took 6 hours to track her down. She had gone about 3 miles before she finally bled out.

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:00:49 PM EDT
I would say a 20" Govt.-Profile AR15, but you mentioned Elk hunting, so I'll give the M14/M1A the nod.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:08:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:13:33 PM EDT
I see elk hunting was in the mix. The AR won't help you there, so my choice of the AR isn't the best one.

Probably the Polytech.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:15:26 PM EDT
Maybe not a stock Polytech M14SA. The barrel and thread parts forward of the receiver use metric threads close to but not the same as USGI. So long as you do not need to replace parts this won't be a problem, but you will eventually replace the barrel when it shoots out or the gas cylinder. By this point you will hopefully already have a smith to recut the receiver threads and USGI parts to install.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:20:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
.223 is no way gonna stop an elk! You need something on the lines of an 06 or .308.

That being said, the700 is likely the best choice....unless you run across a G3 reasonable.

When in doubt....get em ALL!



actually at close range with a properly placed round a 22 lr can cleanly kill an Elk much less a 223 but for normal hunting scenario a round with more penetration is desired.



Dude, I guided Elk hunts professionally and if some dude brought a .223 on an elk hunt....I wouldn't have taken him out hunting.

Most times Elk hunting is either a snap shot in the black pines or a long range shot. In neither case would a .223 stop an elk. You need WAY more hydrostatic shock via grain weight than a .223 is capable of producing. A 180 grain projectile will kill an elk....a 70 grain projectile most likely won't. An Elk is as big as a freaking horse for crying out loud.

I shot a cow elk 4 times at about 50 feet with a .41 magnum.....took 6 hours to track her down. She had gone about 3 miles before she finally bled out.




shot placement is everything when placed in the right spot an ice pick is as effective a killer as a broad axe I have killed cows with a 22 LR from a pistol. anyways enough crapping in this guys thread I recomened a 308 AR-10 not a 223
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:22:36 PM EDT
Yeah. The only REAL concern I have is using it for ELK hunting...probably a no-go for the AR


Also, can someone please elaborate more on the problem with the METRIC threads on the POLYTECH???I have heard this mentioned before but not real sure what the problem is.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:23:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
Yeah. The only REAL concern I have is using it for ELK hunting...probably a no-go for the AR


Also, can someone please elaborate more on the problem with the METRIC threads on the POLYTECH???I have heard this mentioned before but not real sure what the problem is.



I finally agree with MTNmyMag, a .308 AR-15 would be sweet! Lightweight AND accurate!
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:51:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
Yeah. The only REAL concern I have is using it for ELK hunting...probably a no-go for the AR


Also, can someone please elaborate more on the problem with the METRIC threads on the POLYTECH???I have heard this mentioned before but not real sure what the problem is.



I finally agree with MTNmyMag, a .308 AR-15 would be sweet! Lightweight AND accurate!



How much more would you be looking to spend for an AR-10 Armalite compared to a Bushmaster 20"??
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:08:01 PM EDT
I wouldn't be hunting Elk with an AR-15

If you are only going to get one multi-purpose rifle, get a Remington 700 ADL synthetic in .30-06 and put a good Leupold 3 X 9 scope on it. You can go from 110 to 220 grain in your bullets which encompasses everything you can shoot in North America.

Total cost for the package shouldn't be more than $750. Especially if you can pick the rifle up at Wal-Mart for around $350 or so.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:47:28 PM EDT
Other You need a good Bolt Gun chambered for one of the 7MM or 30 cal magnums in a sporter weight.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:57:38 PM EDT
I voted for the AR-15 20" rifle.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:59:09 PM EDT
Tikka in 30-06. Simply cant go wrong with that.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:01:29 PM EDT
Savage 110 in .30-06 or .300 magnum.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:06:02 PM EDT
I don't think you can hunt in OH with a semi-auto rifle.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:08:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:
I don't think you can hunt in OH with a semi-auto rifle.



Unpin your gas tube and rotate it 90 degrees.

Dont think the game warden would see it that way though.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:10:38 PM EDT
AR10.

I'd have picked the M1A, but I've heard stories over the years of the polytech ones having bad heat treatment on the receivers leading to premature headspace issues. I don't know this for a fact, as the only one I have is a springfield, but I've heard it from 4 or 5 people over the years. Before I would consider buying a polytech, I'd check around and find out if that's true or not. Either way, other than magazine issues, the AR10 is a great rifle. Hopefully, Armalite is/will be getting that worked out as time goes by. For all I know, they may have already worked it out.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:10:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 10:14:20 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]
I would just get a regular 700 (ADL BDL CDL SPS whatever ) in .308 if I needed one rifle for those requirements
AR is too small
PSS is way too heavy for elk hunting IMO
Polytechs are hit ans miss qualitywise from what i have seen
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:11:47 PM EDT
Rem - 700
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:18:50 AM EDT
I live in Arizona now.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:40:20 AM EDT
I have a poly I will sell ya
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:56:41 AM EDT
hydrostatic shock?


I thought that was gun-show BS
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:25:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 10:26:47 AM EDT by Cape_hunter]

Originally Posted By timb3:
AR10.

I'd have picked the M1A, but I've heard stories over the years of the polytech ones having bad heat treatment on the receivers leading to premature headspace issues. I don't know this for a fact, as the only one I have is a springfield, but I've heard it from 4 or 5 people over the years. Before I would consider buying a polytech, I'd check around and find out if that's true or not. Either way, other than magazine issues, the AR10 is a great rifle. Hopefully, Armalite is/will be getting that worked out as time goes by. For all I know, they may have already worked it out.



Dont forget to mention how the polys have a forged reciever and your Springy is cast.
Dont forget to mention that some builders prefer the poly for that reason.
Dont forget to mention that it was the bolt, not the reciever that had issues.
Dont forget to mention that while people have said these things are an issue, nobody can find examples of any kabooms or damages from above problems.

I have thousands of rounds through my polys and have had ZERO troubles. I check HS every couple months and never seen it move. $7-800 for a poly with $$ left for ammo and accesories or $1300+ and owe hte piper? No question in my book. I am only selling one off to feed and HK addiction.

Then again I voted for the 20" AR as there is just more parts out there.[

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:38:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 10:39:53 AM EDT by sniper1az]
Get the AR and love it. Then buy a Remington model 7 in 308.

Suck it up, get 2 rifles!

I hunt mule deer with my AR in Arizona. But I take my 700 PSS in 300 Winchester Mag for elk. The last big bull we took weighed 935 poununds DRESSED!!! We got 585 pounds of meat out of that guy!

The damn bull weighed more dressed than my friends horse does minus the saddle!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:44:13 AM EDT
Based on what you want you should get 2 rifles.

An AR 20" barrel with quality optics for varmint and target shooting and a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in 30-06. Using a .223 for elk is downright dumb and buying a heavy target rifle for elk hunting isn't very bright either. You need a lightweight rifle that is capable of shooting 1-1.5 inch groups at 100 yards minimum caliber should be .270 on up to a .338.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:52:01 AM EDT
You have put too many requirements on a single rifle to be looking at semi automatics. If you raised your budget to $1400, then an AR-10 would fit the bill.
Depending on what your target and varmit requirements are, any good bolt gun can get the job done. You could buy 2 guns if you really want a semiautomatic rifle. The Weatherby Vanguard bolt gun can be bought at WalMart for less than $350, and you can often get one of these to shoot 1 MOA. You can then buy a DPMS or Olympic AR15 for another $650 for plinking at the range.
Anyone who hunts Elk would get a chuckle out of someone who would even suggest using a .223. Just because you can hit a paper target at 200 yards does not mean that you will be able to bring down an Elk easily. Standing next to old Bessy with your .22 pointing at her head is a little different than shooting at an Elk sized animal at over 200 yds. I have seen a standard 7MM Mag bullet virtually explode when it hit a rib. This is where bonded and partitioned bullets demonstrate why they cost more and are worth the money. Regarding a .308, I would choose a 30-06 over it if I had the choice to make. The selection of quality premium factory loads is far superior.
I own a Armalite AR-10. If I could only have one rifle, that would be the one I would own. The premium over the price of a AR-15 is well worth it. I have shot rifle match with both my AR-15 and AR-10. The only negative I saw for the AR-10 is the cost per round.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:53:43 AM EDT
Ar 10.

You can get them in any of the WSM cartridges, or of course 308 based cartridges.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:43:16 AM EDT
Get a FAL or PTR-91.

Two great multi task rifles. Great for 3 gun matches, plinking, and hunting.

I use them for deer hunting.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:29:24 PM EDT
M1a, Mini 14-30(you can have one in any state)
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:45:08 PM EDT
Lee Enfield.
Its Cheap
Reliable
Holds 10 Rounds
Legal in all States.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:34:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 1:40:10 PM EDT by Rustygun]
The 223 is not an "all purpose" round so disregard the AR.

The Chinese M14's are hit and miss quality wise. Mostly miss. Don't saddle yourself up with that gun unless you are just buying it for the receiver.

A regular PSS 700 is too heavy for walk around hunting. So what's the answer?

The absolute bitchinest gun around right now is the Remington 308 LVSF. It is a walk around stainless/synthetic rifle that weighs less than an LTR. Second choice is the LTR in 308. It weighs a pound more and isn't stainless.

The real deal is Bud's in Kentucky has the LVSF in 7-08 for about $550. That is a giveaway price and a perfect chambering. Call him while the getting is good. I wish my money was right.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:24:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
Lee Enfield.
Its Cheap
Reliable
Holds 10 Rounds
Legal in all States.



Oddball ammo, not known for accuracy, hard to accessorize. It is a great collectible old bolt gun though.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:31:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
AR with 18" barrel in 6.8SPC




+1
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:19:02 PM EDT
You need to add a “none of the above” choice to your poll.

Elk hunting and true varmint hunting are pretty much at opposite ends of each other. A reasonably priced rifle usable for both probably isn’t going to do either very well.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:27:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
of that list for those reason... m14s polytech hands down.





I have agree with T_B_S

I dont care what .223 you have, it is not a Elk Stopper
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:28:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
.223 is no way gonna stop an elk! You need something on the lines of an 06 or .308.

That being said, the700 is likely the best choice....unless you run across a G3 reasonable.

When in doubt....get em ALL!



actually at close range with a properly placed round a 22 lr can cleanly kill an Elk much less a 223 but for normal hunting scenario a round with more penetration is desired.



I absolutely agree. A 22LR with the barrel stuck deep inside the ear canal such that a brain shot is an certainly would be quite effective. Almost any other sceario is absurd which is why a .22 is not legal even for deer in most states.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:39:08 PM EDT
LRB M-14 type rifle!



http://www.lrbarms.com/pages/2/index.htm
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:49:43 PM EDT
FAL carbine
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