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Posted: 1/1/2006 12:14:03 PM EDT
Looks like lots of Germans are leaving the Fatherland


news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051230/lf_nm/germany_emigrants_dc

Germans leaving country to escape unemployment By Erik Kirschbaum
Fri Dec 30, 8:24 AM ET



BERLIN (Reuters) - Germans are leaving their country in record numbers but unlike previous waves of migrants who fled 19th century poverty or 1930s Nazi terror, these modern day refugees are trying to escape a new scourge -- unemployment.

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Flocking to places as far away as the United States, Canada and Australia as well as Norway, the Netherlands and Austria more than 150,000 Germans packed their bags and left in 2004 -- the greatest exodus in any single year since the late 1940s.

High unemployment that lingers at levels of more than 20 percent in some parts of Germany and dim prospects for any improvement are the key factors behind the migration. In the 15 years since German unification more than 1.8 million Germans have left.

"It's hard for me to even imagine any more what it's like to have so much unemployment," said Karin Manske, 45, who moved to the United States with her two children eight years ago to start her own business as a consultant.

"It's hard to fathom because Germans are such skilled workers," Manske said in an interview with Reuters in Los Angeles. "I love the adventurous spirit and won't go back. You can start a business on a shoe string and work hard to succeed."

There are an estimated 70,000 Germans living in southern California, many of whom have arrived in recent years. Earlier tides of emigrants fleeing the Nazis went to Hollywood while post-war waves of Germans filled jobs as skilled artisans in nearby Orange County towns like Anaheim.

"Some of my friends moved to Australia, to Switzerland or London and I came to the U.S., where I'm definitely much better off than I would have been in Germany," said Wolfram Knoeringer, 33, an German architect who moved to Los Angeles in 2002.

"It's not the best time for architects in Germany," he told Reuters, referring to a flat economy, a stagnant population and shrinking building sector. "There are tons of architects in Berlin with little to do. LA is a far more interesting place."

EAST GERMANS TAKE OVER ALPS

According to the Federal Statistics Office in Wiesbaden, the 150,667 Germans who left last year went to 200 countries -- the United States was the top destination with 12,976, following by Switzerland (12,818), Austria (8,532) and Britain

(7,842).

Other countries that took in Germany's poor, their tired and their hungry were France, Spain, the Netherlands and Belgium.

"There are actually far more Germans moving abroad than the numbers reflected in the official statistics," said Klaus Bade, a University of Osnabrueck professor who studies migration.

"The poor chance of finding jobs at home is the main reason they're leaving," Bade told Stern magazine in a cover story that gave Germans useful tips on how to emigrate.

It's a remarkable change of fortune for Germany, which thanks to the post-war "Economic Miracle" of the 1950s and 1960s was a magnet for millions of foreigners who trekked there from Turkey, Italy and other poor countries in search of jobs.

The main exodus from Germany has been from its formerly communist East, which has been depressed and contracting since just after the Berlin Wall fell in 1989. The East's population has shrunk to 14.7 million from 16 million since 1990.

A Europe Job Center in Magdeburg and a government agency in Bonn known as ZAV have helped tens of thousands of Germans find jobs abroad, mainly in neighboring countries.

The numbers leaving Germany are modest considering there are nearly 5 million unemployed, even though the trend seems to be gaining pace. There has been scant economic growth in Germany for years and property prices have barely changed in a decade.

Annika Richter left home in Dresden to work as a cook and bookkeeper in a Liechtenstein ski resort. Her Saxon accent stands in contrast to the melody of the local Swiss German dialect.

But her easily distinguishable language blends in with the staff at her Alpine hotel because most of them are also east Germans, now seen as among Europe's most mobile workers.

"I didn't want to work in Germany because this type of job is looked down on," said Richter, 34. "Hotel service jobs have no status in Germany. I'm happy here. I want to work here, save money and then travel the world. I'll probably come back here."

TO AMSTERDAM

Germans have been sailing, running and flying away from their home for centuries. Millions of 19th century emigrants escaped poverty while later waves fled Adolf Hitler's Nazis or were eager to leave the post-war ruins behind.

Some countries, such as Australia, are now actively recruiting Germans with skills at their embassies in Berlin. In a bizarre twist of fate, construction companies in northern Italy have recently been hiring Germans for low skill jobs.

Yet many of those who leave say they have no regrets. Bernhard Klug went to Amsterdam in February after losing his job at his advertising agency at home.

"Sure there are some things I miss but I am very happy here," said Klug, a 35-year-old designer taking evening Dutch lessons. "Work is less stressful, people leave on time, and the atmosphere is much more relaxed and informal among colleagues."

Klug doesn't miss his homeland.

"In the Netherlands, there isn't the constant moaning you have in Germany," he said. "I'm staying here, at least for now."

Susanne Lutterbach moved to Zurich two years ago for a job.

"It was easier to find work in Switzerland," said Lutterbach, 25, who found a marketing position at a computer company. "I was able to start right away after I graduated."

Dagmar Hovestadt had a good job at a Berlin television station but grew bored and quit six years ago, moved to Los Angeles and now works as a freelance journalist.

"People said I was crazy," she said. "I always dreamedabout living in California. The mentality is about as opposite from Berlin as it gets. It's a tough working environment and you're on your own. But I really wanted to get away from Germany."


Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:17:28 PM EDT
The problem is that they are bringing their socialist ideas and 32 hour work week with them. If they are coming to work hard and live the American dream of paying only 50% of your income in taxes they are more then welcome.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:18:03 PM EDT
And Mexicans are leaving Mexico. Guess where they are heading???
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:20:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Midnight-Sniper:
And Mexicans are leaving Mexico. Guess where they are heading???



yup. we're going to need a force field instead of a wall.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:27:17 PM EDT


Well, it's good to have immigrants that are willing to work for a change, instead of coming to leech off the rest of us. Can we send the refugees from New Orleans to Germany as an exchange, since there aren't any jobs anyway, they should fit right into the welfare line.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:31:51 PM EDT
You know, the right man could straighten things out over there.


OOPS. They already tried that.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:32:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:

Originally Posted By Midnight-Sniper:
And Mexicans are leaving Mexico. Guess where they are heading???



yup. we're going to need a force field instead of a wall.



I say we just expand the U.S. and take over Mexico.
...Lets make it 60 states.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:37:20 PM EDT
The whole world should just become America.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:46:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
You know, the right man could straighten things out over there.


OOPS. They already tried that.



Now they are trying with the "right" woman...
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:49:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Joaquin:
Dagmar Hovestadt had a good job at a Berlin television station but grew bored and quit six years ago, moved to Los Angeles and now works as a freelance journalist.

"People said I was crazy," she said. "I always dreamedabout living in California. The mentality is about as opposite from Berlin as it gets. It's a tough working environment and you're on your own. But I really wanted to get away from Germany."





Leaving Germany to move to California. I wonder what' she'd think Montana is like

Think she likes the Governator?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:54:35 PM EDT
I like the Germans, I'm fine with it... Come here.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:55:06 PM EDT
German is such an awesome language to get angry in.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:05:33 PM EDT
One of my friends jumped the Berlin wall when he was 16.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:19:38 PM EDT
I'd rather have LEGAL German Immigrants than ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:35:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 5:33:33 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I'd rather have LEGAL German Immigrants than ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants




You mean the kind of immigrants that actually pay for their own healthcare and benefits rather than making host citizens pay for it?

The kind that Don't send all the money they make to the economy of some foreign Central American country?

The kind that integrates and learns the English language and American culture rather than creating a subculture that divides the nation and forces bilingualism because they don't want to speak the language of their host country?

You bet, bring 'em on!

This country needs an infusion to boost the gene pool.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:42:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:49:19 PM EDT

these modern day refugees are trying to escape a new scourge -- unemployment.


So, "unemployment" is now a code word for "rampant socialism"?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:51:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 3:53:25 PM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:56:47 PM EDT
My lazy-ass sack o shit cousin is still in Berlin...

He is 40ish and has NEVER had a job.

Spends his life blaming immigrants for the way things are, he invited himself here once, we declined.

His older brother is nearly as useless but has had a job as a painter til recently when painters and other trades were forced to bust a little ass instead of fucking off all day...this happened almost to the day that the 2 Germanies came together again.

When the older one visited here the first time it was for my wedding, my mom's idea.
He and his mother came the week before and were still here for another week after we go back from our honeymoon. Damn near ate us outa house and home.

Fuck those lazy socialist Fucks, productive Germans escaping that shit-hole is long over due.

Pete
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:01:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
You know, the right man could straighten things out over there.


OOPS. They already tried that.



Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:16:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I'd rather have LEGAL German Immigrants than ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants



Hell, I'd rather have illegal Germans than legal mexicans.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:36:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I'd rather have LEGAL German Immigrants than ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants



Hell, I'd rather have illegal Germans than legal mexicans.



I think the Altlantic is a little more difficult to cross than the Rio Grande. The would have more than their back wet.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:39:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 5:39:48 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I'd rather have LEGAL German Immigrants than ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants



You will not not if the LEGAL Germans become citizens start voting.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:39:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I'd rather have LEGAL German Immigrants than ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants



Hell, I'd rather have illegal Germans than legal mexicans.



yep....any day of the week
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:50:47 PM EDT

Looks like lots of Germans are leaving the Fatherland


Have the French surrendered yet?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:53:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rwinn625:

Looks like lots of Germans are leaving the Fatherland


Have the French surrendered yet?



Well if history is any indicator when Germans start leaving German that follows in within the next decade… no joke intended.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:27:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:32:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By rwinn625:

Looks like lots of Germans are leaving the Fatherland


Have the French surrendered yet?



Well if history is any indicator when Germans start leaving German that follows in within the next decade… no joke intended.




Sick economy + emigration + rising nationalism = back to the future.



I fail to understand why nations allow immigration while there is still significant unemployment.
The United States is as bad as any nation. And offshoring/outsourcing jobs to cheaper nations like India. But I know why we do this. Simply greed.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:43:50 AM EDT
The Germans are pretty sharp. Once they move here and get exposed to the gung-ho hard work and play American lifestyle, they'll turn productive. We just have to keep an eye on them to make sure they don't turn into Katrina refugees asking for 'gubment handouts and high pay for less work.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:08:30 AM EDT
One of my best friends is German. He owns his own business and has been very successful. In the last 2~3 years he has;
- bought out the business partners and taken full control of his company
- bought a house twice the size of his old one, without selling his old one
- bought his wife a Porsche Boxter
- taken several family vacations to Turkey, one to Argentina
- brought his family here to Kali & Las Vegas last year
- paid for my trip to Germany & Italy last sept

and he would give up/sell it all and move his family to Kalifornia, if he could find a job where he could afford to live here.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:20:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I'd rather have LEGAL German Immigrants than ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants



Hell, I'd rather have illegal Germans than legal mexicans.



Racism will never cease



Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:29:15 AM EDT
close the borders

we have enuff hardworking americans with no jobs
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:31:06 AM EDT
Racism?!? You dumbass!

How about preferring people from a more familiar CULTURE?
German culture promotes cleanliness, hard work, education and responsibility.

Drive through a small German town.
Now drive through a small Mexican town.

Who the hell would YOU prefer for neighbors?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:40:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hexagonal:
Racism?!? You dumbass!

How about preferring people from a more familiar CULTURE?
German culture promotes cleanliness, hard work, education and responsibility.

Drive through a small German town.
Now drive through a small Mexican town.

Who the hell would YOU prefer for neighbors?



honestly, neither
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:41:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:42:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hexagonal: Drive through a small German town. Now drive through a small Mexican town. Who the hell would YOU prefer for neighbors?
Werd! The Krauts of course!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:55:03 AM EDT
Germany has a serious issue with unemployment because of their own doing.

It is incredibly hard to fire someone in Germany, therefore firms are less likely to actually hire you. Once you get a job, you are pretty much set... but everyone without one is kind of... screwed.

This oversimplifies the German problem but a change in this setup would at least result in immediate benefits for many people there. Solution? No. Good first step? You betcha.


- BG
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:09:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dv8xbox:

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
I'd rather have LEGAL German Immigrants than ILLEGAL Mexican Immigrants



Hell, I'd rather have illegal Germans than legal mexicans.



Racism will never cease






It wasn't a racist statement.

As I said higher up, I like the German people.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:10:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:04:24 AM EDT
During the depression in my grandfathers section of Berlin, they had work parties.

The group leader punched your card at the end of each day and you were given food.

On Sunday, IF you had 6 punches on your card you recieved your Sunday ration, IF you had missed a day, you ate on Monday...hard lesson but quickly learned.

Pete
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