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Posted: 12/30/2005 4:17:14 PM EDT
From either side, any country.

P-47...P-51...Fw190?

My guess is the P-47. Both theaters. Long deployment. Lots of armament.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:18:59 PM EDT
P47.

It started out as a fighter, but it did most of its work as ground attack aircraft. Most of the aircraft the Thunderbolt destroyed were on the ground.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:19:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:20:21 PM EDT
P-51D Mustang

It gave us the reach to be able to fly the long missions to protect our bombers.

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:22:29 PM EDT
I'm still a fan of the ME109!


Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:24:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
I'm still a fan of the ME109!

lynx.uio.no/jon/gif/aircraft/me109.jpg


That looks alot like the P-40.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:28:57 PM EDT
Spitfire,
err, on second thoughts....Hurricane

Mark
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:30:59 PM EDT
Stuka
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:31:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
Spitfire,
err, on second thoughts....Hurricane

Mark




Spitfire, for winning the crucial BOB which set the stage for the Allies' victory.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:31:47 PM EDT
The P47 vid was pretty cool.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:32:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
The P47 vid was pretty cool.


How about that big-ass explosion? Cool, eh?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:38:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:39:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:41:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By 50cal:
The P47 vid was pretty cool.


How about that big-ass explosion? Cool, eh?



Must have been a tanker truck or rail car. Seen some gun camera footage of locomotives getting hit. The explosion was pretty spectacular.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:44:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Thunderbolt without a doubt!

Thunderbolts and 8 .50's take no prisoners!


ANdy



Thank you for you interest in Google Video.

Currently, the playback feature of Google Video isn’t available in your country.

We hope to make this feature available more widely in the future, and we really appreciate your patience.



Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:48:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:05:10 PM EDT
FW-190A-9: If the pilot got a decent burst into you, you were toast and it didn't matter what you were flying. I have seen footage of a Fw-190 turn a B-17 into splinters in one pass with Mk108's.

Not even the P-47 approached this brute's wallop, Cannon's are just utterly devastating.

Std
2 X 13 mm MG 131
4 X 20 mm MG 151/20 E cannon

R2/R6
2 X 13 mm MG 131
2 X 20 mm MG 151/20 E cannon
2 X 30 mm Mk108 cannon
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:06:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
Spitfire,
err, on second thoughts....Hurricane

Mark




Spitfire, for winning the crucial BOB which set the stage for the Allies' victory.



dingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingding­
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:13:40 PM EDT
I believe the P-38 shot down more Jap planes than any other.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:26:22 PM EDT
The Spitfire and Hawker Hurricane in the Battle of Britain.

But, had it not been too late entering into service, and had it not been Hitlers insistence that it be developed and used as a bomber; the ME-262 would have had a devastating effect on the allies.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:36:10 PM EDT
If you're talking about the sheer number of enemy planes shot down, I believe that award goes to the Hellcat.

But then again, A'hm DRAINKIN!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:37:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 5:38:40 PM EDT by CFII]
Me 262 bar none.

4 Mk108 30mm Cannons. A single hit would crumple any american fighter, and a couple would shred a bomber. All were in the nose. Superb short range concentrated cannonfire. Plus it can carry R21 AtoA rockets.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:40:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By 50cal:
The P47 vid was pretty cool.



It's a must buy if you love WWII warbirds...

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000687H9/qid%3D1135811301/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-4358490-2797720




WHY in the F&*&# do they still sell stuff on VHS?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:41:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
If you're talking about the sheer number of enemy planes shot down, I believe that award goes to the Hellcat.

But then again, A'hm DRAINKIN!



The Bf-109 series shot down more aircraft than any other by a wide margin. The most successful Luftwaffe fighter group JG52, they operated Bf-109's, downed more than 12,000 aircraft during the war. That is just one group mind you, IIRC JG53 is in second with over 11,000 aircraft downed, they were originally a Bf-109 Group then switched to the Fw-190 "Butcher Bird".
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:44:35 PM EDT
In a single mission, the P-38, for taking Yamamoto out of the war.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:50:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By samsong:
If you're talking about the sheer number of enemy planes shot down, I believe that award goes to the Hellcat.

But then again, A'hm DRAINKIN!



The Bf-109 series shot down more aircraft than any other by a wide margin. The most successful Luftwaffe fighter group JG52, they operated Bf-109's, downed more than 12,000 aircraft during the war. That is just one group mind you, IIRC JG53 is in second with over 11,000 aircraft downed, they were originally a Bf-109 Group then switched to the Fw-190 "Butcher Bird".



I forgot that the Germans were fighting every other nation in the world, thus they'd be the winners of such a competition. The Hellcat was the Numero Uno in the Pacific against the Japs.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:51:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By samsong:
If you're talking about the sheer number of enemy planes shot down, I believe that award goes to the Hellcat.

But then again, A'hm DRAINKIN!



The Bf-109 series shot down more aircraft than any other by a wide margin. The most successful Luftwaffe fighter group JG52, they operated Bf-109's, downed more than 12,000 aircraft during the war. That is just one group mind you, IIRC JG53 is in second with over 11,000 aircraft downed, they were originally a Bf-109 Group then switched to the Fw-190 "Butcher Bird".



I forgot that the Germans were fighting every other nation in the world, thus they'd be the winners of such a competition. The Hellcat was the Numero Uno in the Pacific against the Japs.



Quite correct on the Hellcat in the Pacific.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:03:38 PM EDT
P-51D Mustang

It gave us the reach to be able to fly the long missions to protect our bombers.


Negative!

The P-51 was a great long range fighter, but the P-38 beat it as far being the first long-range escort and having the longest range of any US fighter. The P-38 operated successfully (albeit with some operational and logistical problems in the ETO) in all theatres of the war something that the P-51 did not do and was a johnny come lately in the Pacific. The P-38 was the aircraft in the PTO and MTO, as well as the minor theatres. The P-47 had the shortest range of the three. The 47 & 51 had early problems also. While the 47 was the toughest, the 51 was considered the most vulnerable to combat damage of the three.

The P-38 was the most versatile fighter and was there from beginning to end in squadron service. That's something the P-47 & P-51 didn't do. The 47 didn't make into squadron use until June 1942 & (merlin) 51 didn't enter USAAF service until late 1943. Both aircraft entered service in the PTO late also, with the 51 being the latest.

All three were great aircraft but the P-38 did the job better, in more ways & longer than the other two.

As far as Axis aircraft the Me-109 did the most damage althought the Fw-190 was an overall better fighter.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:18:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
FW-190A-9: If the pilot got a decent burst into you, you were toast and it didn't matter what you were flying. I have seen footage of a Fw-190 turn a B-17 into splinters in one pass with Mk108's.

Not even the P-47 approached this brute's wallop, Cannon's are just utterly devastating.

Std
2 X 13 mm MG 131
4 X 20 mm MG 151/20 E cannon

R2/R6
2 X 13 mm MG 131
2 X 20 mm MG 151/20 E cannon
2 X 30 mm Mk108 cannon




Wow.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:31:05 PM EDT
While the F6F shot down more Japanese aircraft, the P-38 shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other USAAF fighter. Plus since it operated over a larger area, was more versatile and for the entire war the P-38 probably did more to defeat the Japanese than the F6F.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:34:19 PM EDT
I think the Soviet Yak fighter/attack planedid more damage to the Germans on the Eastern Front than what is being given credit. IIRC, it was a good air to air fighter, but it excelled at attacking ground targets.

Remember, the Eastern Front was far larger in scale than the Western Front, or even the PTO in sheer numbers of men, tanks, and aircraft.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:07:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 10:11:40 PM EDT by Andreuha]
In model--for--damage-inflicted, I'd BET it's the P47, simply because it's got so much armament and there were so many of them. In terms of damage-per-plane, it's gotta be the FW-190, they had the best pilots (one-for-one) until near the end when most of the good pilots were already MIA/KIA, the the plane was (also one-for-one) better than anything else in it's theater at any given time.



Still, numbers talk. The war certainly wasn't won by having better soldiers, training, or equipment. Wars are won with logistics, and the P47 was probably the best aircraft to have --it could do mud-moving and CAS while not needing an escort being the mediocre fighter that it was, but operating in the numbers that it did, the shortcomings don't really matter. Of course its success depends entirely on numbers, and the logistics and infrastructure back home to support enough reinforcements and supplies coming in to keep the whoopass flowing one way.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:12:00 PM EDT
The p-38 destroyed more Japanese Aircraft then any other Aircraft during the War, plus served with distinction in Europe as an attack aircraft, and almost solely decided the mediteranian campaign.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:20:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 10:35:11 PM EDT by Mattl]

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
From either side, any country.

P-47...P-51...Fw190?

My guess is the P-47. Both theaters. Long deployment. Lots of armament.



Navy F-6f Hellcat far and away last I read or saw.





Stats
Name: F6F-5
Type: USN Fighter
Introduced: Jan. 1943
Crew: 1
Length: 33.6 ft
Wingspan: 42.8 ft
Weight,empty: 9,101 lbs
Weight,loaded: 12,441 lbs
Powerplant: One 2,000 hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800 radial
Armament: Six .50-caliber machine-guns
Ordnance: Two 500-pound bombs and six rockets
Max Speed: 386 mph
Range: 1,090 miles
Ceiling: 37,000 ft
Climb Rate: 3,500 ft/min


The F6F was created as a direct response to the Japanese Zero in an amazingly short period of time; designed in the spring of 1942, it was tested later that year and by years end was being mass produced. Despite the short design cycle the plane was an astounding success in almost all respects, and it was the performance of this stubby looking plane, coupled with it's overwhelming production numbers (11,000 were delivered in a two year time span) that spelled doom for the Japanese hope of air superiority in the Pacific.

Although the Hellcat might have had a different history in the mixed bag of designs used in Europe, in the Pacific it excelled at everything required for victory. It was faster than the Zero, out climbed it, could climb higher, was heavily armored, carried a huge ammo supply, worked well off carriers, and turned well. In this light it's not surprising that this fighter, flown in ever increasing numbers against a steadily drained Japanese navy and army, produced the highest kill ratio of the war.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:30:17 PM EDT
Hellcat all the way.


But the P51 by far is my fav
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:51:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigDozer66:
P-51D Mustang

It gave us the reach to be able to fly the long missions to protect our bombers.

BigDozer66


There's a famous quote from one of the Nazi leaders who said that he knew the war was lost when he saw American fighters (P51's) over Germany. The capabilities of that aircraft had an impact on the war beyond just what it's guns could hit.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:44:48 AM EDT
P47 by far.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 1:12:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
The Spitfire and Hawker Hurricane in the Battle of Britain.

But, had it not been too late entering into service, and had it not been Hitlers insistence that it be developed and used as a bomber; the ME-262 would have had a devastating effect on the allies.



I'm not entirely convinced by that. They had notoriously unrealiable engines due to Germany having poor supplies of exotic metals to make the right high tensile alloys jet engines need. On paper the ME-262's engines had a lifespan of 20 hours before needing a major overhaul. In reality it was more like 10 hours, and they were prone to self destruct if you increased the thrust on them too quickly (the ME-262 used longer runways than piston powered fighters so the pilot didn't need to overstress the engines on takeoff by accelerating too quickly and blowing up an engine before getting off the ground). Allied research into jet engines had actually outstripped the Germans before Germany surrendered. The Allison J33-A-9 jet engine in the Lockheed P-80 was both more powerful and more reliable than the German Jumo 004's powering the ME-262 in Jaunuary 1944.

If Hitler hadn't tried to micro-manage the ME-262 development Germany would have had them rolling off the production line sooner, but that would have caused even more problems building the engines because it would have used up even larger amounts of Germany's very meager reserves of alloying metals. Even if the war had dragged on longer than it did, the Allied advancements in jet engine technology would have only gotten further and further ahead of the Germans.

Some people like to say how great the piston powered German TA-152 (an advanced version of the FW-190) was, but it had it's share of engine problems as well. Only one squadren of them went operational and it was retired in less than a year because their engines kept self destructing as well. They eventually took parts from some of them to keep others flying until only two were still flying when Berlin was captured.

Which fighter contributed the most? It's a very hard call to make. The Spitfire and Hurricane made it impossible for the Luftwaffe to gain air superiority over southeast England (the Luftwaffe would never have gained superiority over all of England, their aircraft simply didn't have the range to cover all of England from either France or Norway). Because of this Germany never had a realistic hope of invading England, there was never going to be a German "D-Day" on British beaches, despite Hitler's plans for Operation Sealion. Even if the Luftwaffe did gain air superriority over southeast England, Sealion would never have succeeded. The only real hope Germany had of taking England out of the war was by starving it through attacks on shipping to England and forcing England into surrender (although there was one attempt by some members of Churchill's government to stage a coup against him and start peace talks with Germany. The attempt really happened, it failed).

Apart from that, the Spitfire and Hurricane had limited range and didn't have the ability to take the air battle into central Germany itself if operating from England. They were designed as defensive fighters, not for long range attack or escort.

The P-47 certainly has the most Allied kills in Western Europe. The Allied strategic bombing campaign against Germany wasn't just an attempt to destroy their heavy industries, but also an attempt to draw the Luftwaffe into battle with Allied fighters and bleed the Luftwaffe dry of experienced pilots. That part of it succeeded. By late 1943 the Luftwaffe was putting teenagers with less than 20 hours total flight experience into combat because that's what they were down to. Unlike the US and UK who rotated pilots out of combat once they'd completed a set number of missions, there was no such practice in the Luftwaffe. Once you were an operational combat pilot, you kept flying until you were dead, disabled or the war ended. The P-51 finally gave the US and UK the chance to send fighters all the way with bombers (the P-51 was designed in the US under contract for the UK government, not for the US government and the first operational P-51's flew for the RAF not the USAAF). As for the P-38, nice try but no cigar. It was at best a stopgap fighter as a bomber escort until replaced by the P-47.

My knowledge of Russian fighters is very poor, so I kant make any reliable comments about Russian aircraft.

For the Pacific, it's not quite as clear cut. My vote would go to the Dauntless divebomber as the attack mainstay of the USN, not to any specific fighter. Putting the IJN on the bottom of the ocean certainly made it possible to take the war right up to Japan itself and severaly limit Japan's ability to reinforce and support the islands they'd captured in the South Pacific.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 1:34:39 AM EDT
Without any doubts the... dewoitine d520


or more seriously maybe the hurricane, it was overshadowed by the spitfire but during the BOB it shot down more planes and was far numberous than the spit.

As said eodtech the 109 win hand down for the number of ennemy planes shot down.

The p47 is a good choice too.

And for an individual planes: the stuka of hans joachim Rudel:
palmares:
2530 war missions
519 russian tanks
1 battleship
1 detroyer
70 landing boats
800+ motorized vehicles
150+ Artillery -, Pak and anti-aircraft positions
9 air victories (7 hunters, 2 battle airplanes Il 2)
...and many shelters, bridges and supply lines


Link Posted: 12/31/2005 1:44:28 AM EDT
Rudel was shot down several times but had a habit of getting back to German lines and into action again. As such, although he flew Stukas during his combat career, he went through several of them rather than flying the same single aircraft all the time. He was also a die hard nazi from what I've heard. His combat record is impressive though.

I think the Allied pilot I admire the most was Douglas Bader of the RAF.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:04:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 2:08:33 AM EDT by dewoitine]

Originally Posted By GarethB:
Rudel was shot down several times but had a habit of getting back to German lines and into action again. As such, although he flew Stukas during his combat career, he went through several of them rather than flying the same single aircraft all the time. He was also a die hard nazi from what I've heard. His combat record is impressive though.

I think the Allied pilot I admire the most was Douglas Bader of the RAF.



Yes rudel went trough the standard studka: the Ju-87D (i think) but also the JU-87G (with 2 pak of 37mm in the wings with 5 shots each), and Fw190. It's again true that he was an hardcore nazi until the end (in 1982).

Ohh and +1 for Bader. What he did whitout his legs was more than impressive.
For some reasons i admire Pierre closterman a lot too he was flying mainly tempest
air victories :(+12 shared)
19 FW-190
7 ME-109
2 Dornier 24
1 Fieseler 156
1 JU-252
1 JU-88
1 JU-290
1 Heinkel 111

On the ground he destroyed :

7 JU 88
6 DO-18
4 HE-177
2 Arado 323
1 JU-252
1 Blom-Voss

225 trucks
72 locomotives ( i think that he has the allied record for that)
5 tanks
1 submarine and 2 destroyers



Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:11:31 AM EDT
I think it was the P51 Mustang
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:17:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 11:29:58 AM EDT
In terms of sheer war-winning power, (Barring Enola Gay and Bock's Car) I think the IL-2 is got to be up there. No, it wasn't a glamarous aircraft, and no, it didn't shoot down many other airplanes in air-air-combat, but as an attack fighter, it was second to none. I believe the IL-2 still holds the record for the aircraft type built in most numbers, ever. Armoured, large payload, and a terror to both battlefield units and rear-echelon units.

As for pure fighters, I'd vote for Me-109 or Hurricane.

NTM
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:08:27 PM EDT
How about the Piper Cub, with an artillery spotter in it? Most feared warplane on the Western Front.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:26:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
I'm still a fan of the ME109!

lynx.uio.no/jon/gif/aircraft/me109.jpg



Thats a Buchon, a Spanish built 109 with a Rolls Royce Merlin engine. They used them in the making of the film Battle of Britain.

Buchon details



I've always wondered why the idiot Spaniards didn't make 190's with P&W or Brit radials. The accident rate would have been much lower. I have an old Warbirds magazine with a CAF pilot report on the Hispano. The thing is a total handful just to takeoff, fly around in and land. And this is a highly skilled and experienced Hispano pilot !!
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