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Posted: 12/30/2005 8:42:20 AM EDT
What do you really think the outcome would be for you if:
1) President Bush is defeated on his current SCOTUS appointment by a moderate Republican/Democratic coallition. A more "centrist" appointment acceptable to Democrats is approved.
2) Hillary wins in 2006 in New York, and in 2008 for POTUS
3) Chuckie Schumer is made AJOTUS
4) Both Senate and House majorities shifts to the Democrats
5) AWB comes back on Steroids, banning semi-autos, with NO grandfather clause or sale allowed. No hollow point, penetrator, frangible, defender or segmented ammo is allowed.
6) Posession of more than 9 legal or illegal firearms is considered a felony.
7) No rights of transfer or inheritance for firearms are recognized. Your options are to render permanently inoperative or turn in for destruction.

NOTE: Items 5, 6 and 7 have already been in bills introduced in New York State.

Sure, a few readers will give the obligatory "from my cold dead fingers" response, but what would you really do? If the New York idiots get cloned to Washington, this is a very real possibility in '08.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:48:59 AM EDT
Turn over my stuff and go to Starbucks and get a crapichino. And live out the rest of my quite safe soccer dad life.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:49:38 AM EDT
I'd wait for the inevitable Republican tidel waves of 2010 and 2012. Seriously, gun control is a loser for the democracts. If they were stupid enough to try it against they'd get thrown out on their asses.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:50:57 AM EDT
Ignore the law, just like ive been doing most of my life
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:51:50 AM EDT
in the short term?

shovel, PVC pipe, desiccant, cosmoline.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:52:23 AM EDT
I'm ready
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:53:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
What do you really think the outcome would be for you if:
1) President Bush is defeated on his current SCOTUS appointment by a moderate Republican/Democratic coallition. A more "centrist" appointment acceptable to Democrats is approved.
2) Hillary wins in 2006 in New York, and in 2008 for POTUS
3) Chuckie Schumer is made AJOTUS
4) Both Senate and House majorities shifts to the Democrats
5) AWB comes back on Steroids, banning semi-autos, with NO grandfather clause or sale allowed. No hollow point, penetrator, frangible, defender or segmented ammo is allowed.
6) Posession of more than 9 legal or illegal firearms is considered a felony.
7) No rights of transfer or inheritance for firearms are recognized. Your options are to render permanently inoperative or turn in for destruction.

NOTE: Items 5, 6 and 7 have already been in bills introduced in New York State.

Sure, a few readers will give the obligatory "from my cold dead fingers" response, but what would you really do? If the New York idiots get cloned to Washington, this is a very real possibility in '08.



What can we do but vote, and make noise to everyone we know, and support gun-rights groups, and write our reps in Washington?
If there is something else we can do let me know.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:55:22 AM EDT
Lock and load.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:55:30 AM EDT
I'd re-read Enemies Foreign and Domestic.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:55:37 AM EDT
What happens happens. I'm not going to get all worked up over it. If the SHTF I'll figure out the right thing to do.

And then do it.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:58:42 AM EDT
My wife won't let me have guns anyway so no big deal.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:59:08 AM EDT



"He complained when they took away his guns five years ago, but he still had his color TV and his backyard barbeque, so he didn't fight."

though Turner Diaries is 80% crap (about 40% racism and 40% communist), the remaining 20% has some briliant and pertinant analysis on the state and nature of man.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:14:03 AM EDT
From the responses Ive seen on here from other topics, most of the members (with maybe 5 or 6 excepted) would bend over and take it in the ass from ole Billary. It is sad that nobody really believes in protecting and defending the Constitution, I dont mind doing so a bit, my salvation is taken care of so I have nothing to lose.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:16:19 AM EDT
The older I get, the less I like being fucked with.....
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:20:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 9:21:18 AM EDT by Fat_McNasty]

Originally Posted By nf9648:
From the responses Ive seen on here from other topics, most of the members (with maybe 5 or 6 excepted) would bend over and take it in the ass from ole Billary. It is sad that nobody really believes in protecting and defending the Constitution, I dont mind doing so a bit, my salvation is taken care of so I have nothing to lose.



You know I don't mind protecting and defending the Constitution as long as I'm back home before American Idol is on! And could we stop by the store and pick up some beer on the way back too?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:21:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
What do you really think the outcome would be for you if:
1) President Bush is defeated on his current SCOTUS appointment by a moderate Republican/Democratic coallition. A more "centrist" appointment acceptable to Democrats is approved.
2) Hillary wins in 2006 in New York, and in 2008 for POTUS
3) Chuckie Schumer is made AJOTUS
4) Both Senate and House majorities shifts to the Democrats
5) AWB comes back on Steroids, banning semi-autos, with NO grandfather clause or sale allowed. No hollow point, penetrator, frangible, defender or segmented ammo is allowed.
6) Posession of more than 9 legal or illegal firearms is considered a felony.
7) No rights of transfer or inheritance for firearms are recognized. Your options are to render permanently inoperative or turn in for destruction.

NOTE: Items 5, 6 and 7 have already been in bills introduced in New York State.

Sure, a few readers will give the obligatory "from my cold dead fingers" response, but what would you really do? If the New York idiots get cloned to Washington, this is a very real possibility in '08.



What can we do but vote, and make noise to everyone we know, and support gun-rights groups, and write our reps in Washington?
If there is something else we can do let me know.



Ill show you when the time comes, for now all you acn do is PT and shoot, a lot. We can freshen up on squad and fire team movement tactics when the time comes.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:23:52 AM EDT
The only logical solution is to use those force multipliers available.

1. The truth
2. Force of law

Knowing that the only rightful use of force is in the defence of Life Liberty and Property and the law was created for that purpose any thing to the contrary must be eliminated.

The truth is very powerful against lies.


"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is no force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist."

John Adams




Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.


It is time to play offense, take up the common law, assemble the public body of justice and execute the warrant.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:26:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 9:26:51 AM EDT by Zatu]
If I thought there was a chance for us to get the laws repealed, I'd have an accident on my stepfather's boat, then wait out the storm and help the cause whenever I could.

If I thought it was going to last more than three years, I'd look for another country with more lax gun laws and without totally psychotic government. Then learn a new language and move. But that's assuming such a nation exists.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:27:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 9:32:45 AM EDT by Red_Label]

Originally Posted By nf9648:
From the responses Ive seen on here from other topics, most of the members (with maybe 5 or 6 excepted) would bend over and take it in the ass from ole Billary. It is sad that nobody really believes in protecting and defending the Constitution, I dont mind doing so a bit, my salvation is taken care of so I have nothing to lose.



I'm done making noise about what I will or will not do should such events occur. I'll let my actions speak when the time comes. I can't tell you exactly what that particular time will be... I'll know it when it comes.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:34:04 AM EDT
ATF goes from door to door saying to each other, "seems to be a lot of boat accidents recently!"
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:35:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
The only logical solution is to use those force multipliers available.

1. The truth
2. Force of law

Knowing that the only rightful use of force is in the defence of Life Liberty and Property and the law was created for that purpose any thing to the contrary must be eliminated.

The truth is very powerful against lies.


"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is no force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist."

John Adams






Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.


It is time to play offense, take up the common law, assemble the public body of justice and execute the warrant.




Well said! That's what I was waiting to hear! I was raised on Davey Crockett and Johnny Tremain. I've read the Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers. I believe in the American spirit of Liberty, and our ability to maintain the spark of Democracy . What the Dems are selling is not Democracy, not when their actions speak tyrrany!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:39:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zatu:
If I thought there was a chance for us to get the laws repealed, I'd have an accident on my stepfather's boat, then wait out the storm and help the cause whenever I could.

If I thought it was going to last more than three years, I'd look for another country with more lax gun laws and without totally psychotic government. Then learn a new language and move. But that's assuming such a nation exists.



switzerland.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:48:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 9:50:03 AM EDT by NonConformist]
Either Pipes sealant cosmoline shovel shutup

or make a few calls and lock and load

<­BR>

Probably the latter
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:51:09 AM EDT
I'd go put a gun in my mouth and dry-fire it.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:54:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USGI_45:
Ignore the law, just like ive been doing most of my life



+1
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:04:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Zatu:
If I thought there was a chance for us to get the laws repealed, I'd have an accident on my stepfather's boat, then wait out the storm and help the cause whenever I could.

If I thought it was going to last more than three years, I'd look for another country with more lax gun laws and without totally psychotic government. Then learn a new language and move. But that's assuming such a nation exists.



switzerland.



Switzerland has agreed to side with the EU and give up their guns. (True!)
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:06:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:

Originally Posted By nf9648:
From the responses Ive seen on here from other topics, most of the members (with maybe 5 or 6 excepted) would bend over and take it in the ass from ole Billary. It is sad that nobody really believes in protecting and defending the Constitution, I dont mind doing so a bit, my salvation is taken care of so I have nothing to lose.



You know I don't mind protecting and defending the Constitution as long as I'm back home before American Idol is on! And could we stop by the store and pick up some beer on the way back too?



You buying the first round? Im probably gonna need propane for the steaks, I'll fork out for that one.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:06:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
Well said! That's what I was waiting to hear! I was raised on Davey Crockett and Johnny Tremain. I've read the Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers. I believe in the American spirit of Liberty, and our ability to maintain the spark of Democracy . What the Dems are selling is not Democracy, not when their actions speak tyrrany!



Time for strategy.
It is a mistake to approach the tyrrany issue on a national/federal scale, each local area needs to assmble a 12 man jury of qualified electors, this body of public justice is the supreme law of the land, it acts only on what is real with Malum In Se and not Malum Prohibitum.

If each sovereign American in their own local area, assemble under the cause of the common law and hold all official to the law, then justice and freedom could be restored to those areas.

So the strategic goal would be a free society under the common law which is in agreement with the constitution.

By each local area operating control over their own domains there is no federal cause with which the tyrants can interfere without incurring the wrath of the people, the JBT's are slow to act against their neighbors for the very reason that they are neighbors.

The fedcoats can always concentrate force upon an isolated community one at a time but if many communities act at the same time there just is not enough JBT's to go around when hundreds of militia live on scene without logistical obstacles to overcome as the fedcoats must do.


Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.



Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:08:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
What do you really think the outcome would be for you if:
1) President Bush is defeated on his current SCOTUS appointment by a moderate Republican/Democratic coallition. A more "centrist" appointment acceptable to Democrats is approved.
2) Hillary wins in 2006 in New York, and in 2008 for POTUS
3) Chuckie Schumer is made AJOTUS
4) Both Senate and House majorities shifts to the Democrats
5) AWB comes back on Steroids, banning semi-autos, with NO grandfather clause or sale allowed. No hollow point, penetrator, frangible, defender or segmented ammo is allowed.
6) Posession of more than 9 legal or illegal firearms is considered a felony.
7) No rights of transfer or inheritance for firearms are recognized. Your options are to render permanently inoperative or turn in for destruction.

.



Suddenly, everyone here would beleive me that hell (as described in the Bible) is a real place.



Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:51:38 AM EDT
+1 for the boating accident, then the lawsuit for the pain and suffering that I was caused by the loss of my dad's guns, which I would inheret (I'm the only one in the family that is into guns, cept my dad). I'm sorry, but if Hillary Klinton ever got on the ballot, I'm not sure what I'd do (nothing illegal).
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:03:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
+1 for the boating accident, then the lawsuit for the pain and suffering that I was caused by the loss of my dad's guns, which I would inheret (I'm the only one in the family that is into guns, cept my dad). I'm sorry, but if Hillary Klinton ever got on the ballot, I'm not sure what I'd do (nothing illegal).



Fighting an oppresive regime bent on destroying your freedoms isnt illegal, allowing it to commence without taking action is.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:15:13 AM EDT

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these states; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present tyrant is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.



If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, and give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses;
And the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they do now, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account; but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains around the necks of our fellow sufferers; And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second, that second for a third, and so on 'til the bulk of the society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering... And the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. ~Thomas Jefferson-



are we there yet ?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:21:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
The older I get, the less I like being fucked with.....



+1........and a few buddies of mine!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:22:31 AM EDT

ATF goes from door to door saying to each other........


"This is much more time consuming than it was when we raided that church in Texas."
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:25:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 11:38:20 AM EDT by motown_steve]
What else? Surrender to our new socialist overlords and begin my new life of service to the greater good.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:29:47 AM EDT
<Rant deleted>

99% of posters here wouldn't ever lift a finger.
I wouldn't either until things settled down.
Then it would be either wait until next election (as someone already said) or until all other options have been played out politicaly.
You cannot pick up arms against the government just because thing don't go your way for a few years.
The posted situation would be a slippery slope, that if unchanged, would push me to participate in whatever movement suited the times.
That being said, I would not be the first to take action. I have too much to lose, a family with small children does seem to calm you down quite a bit.
The more mature I get the less shit I talk.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:32:53 AM EDT
Move. There's gotta be some nation on Earth that isn't a shithole, and if worse comes to worst, we can always pool our resources and start ARFCOMtopia.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:36:23 AM EDT
I blame this past generation. Your fuck ups make us (ages 15 to 35) have to fight this, the rest will box themselves in.

I would just have to put everything in piping and cosmoline and hope this boils over.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:59:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 12:14:24 PM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:
<Rant deleted>

99% of posters here wouldn't ever lift a finger.
I wouldn't either until things settled down.
Then it would be either wait until next election (as someone already said) or until all other options have been played out politicaly.
You cannot pick up arms against the government just because thing don't go your way for a few years.
The posted situation would be a slippery slope, that if unchanged, would push me to participate in whatever movement suited the times.
That being said, I would not be the first to take action. I have too much to lose, a family with small children does seem to calm you down quite a bit.
The more mature I get the less shit I talk.



I went through that also. In my post Marine Corps days, while Carter was still busy running the country into the ground, I was a pretty militant conservative. If Carter had stayed in the country would have went belly up witin 4 years and I told my wife then if the SHTF, I was gone. Then I started a family, Reagan was POTUS, and things seemed to be looking up some. Now, we have gone through the 90's with the Klintons infringing on freedoms conservatives hold dear, my kids are now grown and I am seeing a Republican government that has turned to socialism to purchase the votes of losers, opened the country to our enemies and the economy seems to have nowhere to go but down. Another full blown socialist administration may be more than the country can take though either way the handwriting is on the wall I am afraid. In any event, I have become more militant again and it would appear that some may have to make the hard decision to put their lives on the line if we continue on our current path. Even Hildebeast as President wouldn't mean an automatic revolution but if she and her ilk push the policies they desire down our throats, incl gun confiscation, there is a really good chance I will fight. The way I figure it I have raised my kids and better people like me stand and fight than some of you young guys with families. I am still able to fight and have some advantages I didn't as a young man but I wish I were in the kind of physical condition I was then.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:08:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 12:09:52 PM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:
The more mature I get the less shit I talk.



+1

The people I would depend on in the scenario dscribed above are the ones who DON'T play poser on the internet.


Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:09:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:
The more mature I get the less shit I talk.


+1

What a screwed up thread.


No one truly knows how he/she will react if the SHTF.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:12:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By wolfgang12:
Well said! That's what I was waiting to hear! I was raised on Davey Crockett and Johnny Tremain. I've read the Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers. I believe in the American spirit of Liberty, and our ability to maintain the spark of Democracy . What the Dems are selling is not Democracy, not when their actions speak tyrrany!



Time for strategy.
It is a mistake to approach the tyrrany issue on a national/federal scale, each local area needs to assmble a 12 man jury of qualified electors, this body of public justice is the supreme law of the land, it acts only on what is real with Malum In Se and not Malum Prohibitum.

If each sovereign American in their own local area, assemble under the cause of the common law and hold all official to the law, then justice and freedom could be restored to those areas.

So the strategic goal would be a free society under the common law which is in agreement with the constitution.

By each local area operating control over their own domains there is no federal cause with which the tyrants can interfere without incurring the wrath of the people, the JBT's are slow to act against their neighbors for the very reason that they are neighbors.

The fedcoats can always concentrate force upon an isolated community one at a time but if many communities act at the same time there just is not enough JBT's to go around when hundreds of militia live on scene without logistical obstacles to overcome as the fedcoats must do.


Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.




Yeah, all too many see us as attacking the "Fedcoats"( I like that BTW!) en masse across the open prairie or some such rubbish. I already know what I would plan and that ain't even close.

You will not get many local politicians to fall in line though. They are all where they are not because of skill, intellect or love of freedom but because most are sniveling, groveling, asskissing, manipulative liars who know the only sure way to get elected is to promise the electorate money from the public coffers.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:55:28 PM EDT
I'd forsee a boating accident in my future. Tragic, those boating accidents.

Kharn
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:11:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
I'd wait for the inevitable Republican tidel waves of 2010 and 2012. Seriously, gun control is a loser for the democracts. If they were stupid enough to try it against they'd get thrown out on their asses.




+1

especially since all my guns were lost in a tragic boating accident on the St. Johns River.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:17:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Move. There's gotta be some nation on Earth that isn't a shithole, and if worse comes to worst, we can always pool our resources and start ARFCOMtopia.



Switzerland my friend, and if it is too cold for you then there is the holy land, very pro-gun although a bit socialist. Israel is like living in the military, nothing new to me.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:24:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By POWER03:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
I'd wait for the inevitable Republican tidel waves of 2010 and 2012. Seriously, gun control is a loser for the democracts. If they were stupid enough to try it against they'd get thrown out on their asses.


especially since all my guns were lost in a tragic boating accident on the St. Johns River.


Not me. All my guns were lost due to a tragic incident involving a midget, a shop-vac, a putty knife, and some Crisco.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:28:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By POWER03:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
I'd wait for the inevitable Republican tidel waves of 2010 and 2012. Seriously, gun control is a loser for the democracts. If they were stupid enough to try it against they'd get thrown out on their asses.


especially since all my guns were lost in a tragic boating accident on the St. Johns River.


Not me. All my guns were lost due to a tragic incident involving a midget, a shop-vac, a putty knife, and some Crisco.




Me neither, my anti-gun politicians fell overboard though.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:49:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 1:49:31 PM EDT by USGI_45]

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:


99% of posters here wouldn't ever lift a finger.




Dude you are way underestimating the people here. They would lift all of them.........as they rant on and on over the internet
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:03:02 PM EDT
Most people would do as Californians do now, nothing. As they already sorta live under the government described.

And California had the biggest gunshow (Great Western) and the largest "black rifle" market in the US. How did it all just disappear?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:10:47 PM EDT
Anyone else out there got a hunch that claiming you were in a boating accident will guarantee you are the first to have you door kicked down and your dog shot?

Just a thought.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:13:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nefariousnick:
Most people would do as Californians do now, nothing. As they already sorta live under the government described.

And California had the biggest gunshow (Great Western) and the largest "black rifle" market in the US. How did it all just disappear?



Places like Kali and NJ also have the largest collections of socialists and pussies. Even at that, I suspect that if they started confiscation there are some men in Kali willing to fight.
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