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Posted: 12/28/2005 5:40:50 PM EDT
So, do we have another Hitler on the way?

Poll coming.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:41:22 PM EDT
IBTP
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:42:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:43:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Tagged for the first KTALGSTO post...

5 pages and a lock?



You reading minds now Andy?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:47:03 PM EDT
Nope
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:47:32 PM EDT
How could anyone compare a muslim country to a world power that took every major country in the World to defeat it?...
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:47:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:48:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
So, do we have another Hitler on the way?

Poll coming.



Adolftolla Hitlerani?

Other than harboring a not-so-secret desire to exterminate all the Jewish people, a fanatic corps of troops that are only loyal to a small cadre of mentally ill leaders that run the country, a desire to make weapons of mass destruction........no similarity whatsoever.

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:49:19 PM EDT
Not according to ANdy (the jew hater ).
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:49:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 5:50:48 PM EDT by raven]
If you took the Jews out of the equation, how well would your analogy hold up?

The Nazis/Germans had other scores to settle and other weird ambitions through WWII, remember.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:56:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
If you took the Jews out of the equation, how well would your analogy hold up?

The Nazis/Germans had other scores to settle and other weird ambitions through WWII, remember.



World domination and implimenting their lifestyle by force.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:57:36 PM EDT
Have you been listening to Michael Savage again?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:11:42 PM EDT
No, not Iran.

When I look around the globe there is really nowhere I see another NAZI type regime though if I had to pick one place out of them all it would be the US. Let's remember that fascism and socialism/communism run together more often than not. Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Communist China. In each millions were killed. Millions of their own people no less. If the socialists here are ever to completely take power you could expect more of the same.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:14:12 PM EDT
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:18:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:19:18 PM EDT
Iran has no war machine orway to fund building anything like Nazi Germany. Iran is just what it has always been, a shithole.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:21:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.



We could only wish that they would mass themselves in an open desert by the millions, we have daisy cutters and MOABs in warehouses just for that event. Id love to watch that party.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:24:35 PM EDT

No.

Other way around.

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:34:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By raven:
If you took the Jews out of the equation, how well would your analogy hold up?

The Nazis/Germans had other scores to settle and other weird ambitions through WWII, remember.



World domination and implimenting their lifestyle by force.



Um, who's implementing political systems by force these days?

Us

And we're doing it on nightmare systems because democratic countries are less likely to harm us. And it frees millions of people. Win-win.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:40:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.


I do agree the mindset is there
If Iran nukes anything there will be a major mess as i do not think that the UN and Europe could possibly ignore that but you never know
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:41:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.


I do agree the mindset is there
If Iran nukes anything there will be a major mess as i do not think that the UN and Europe could possibly ignore that but you never know



If Hitler had nukes would he have used them?

If Iran gets nukes, will they use them?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:43:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:


If Hitler had nukes would he have used them?

If Iran gets nukes, will they use them?



YES and YES!!
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 6:45:13 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.


I do agree the mindset is there
If Iran nukes anything there will be a major mess as i do not think that the UN and Europe could possibly ignore that but you never know

If Hitler had nukes would he have used them?

If Iran gets nukes, will they use them?

Absolutely NOT.

"Iran" will never use nukes.

They WILL however, supply them to their Islamofascist NGOs who will then ship them into Israel and America, detonate them and we'll probably never be able to clearly trace it back to Iran - so the UN will give Iran the benefit of the doubt... (and the Fifth Column Democrats will blame Bush and the Republicans).

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:47:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.


I do agree the mindset is there
If Iran nukes anything there will be a major mess as i do not think that the UN and Europe could possibly ignore that but you never know

If Hitler had nukes would he have used them?

If Iran gets nukes, will they use them?

Absolutely NOT.

"Iran" will never use nukes.

They WILL however, supply them to their Islamofascist NGOs who will then ship them into Israel and America, detonate them and we'll probably never be able to clearly trace it back to Iran - so the UN will give Iran the benefit of the doubt... (and the Fifth Column Democrats will blame Bush and the Republicans).




C'mon Mac, you can't tell me that Iran wouldn't fire off a nuke at Israel just to get them off the map and get us into a full blown war with the entire middle east?

At the very least they would supply every muslim country with a few to "protect" them for western ideaology.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:50:37 PM EDT
Need more evidence on Iran to compare.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:50:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.


I do agree the mindset is there
If Iran nukes anything there will be a major mess as i do not think that the UN and Europe could possibly ignore that but you never know

If Hitler had nukes would he have used them?

If Iran gets nukes, will they use them?

Absolutely NOT.

"Iran" will never use nukes.

They WILL however, supply them to their Islamofascist NGOs who will then ship them into Israel and America, detonate them and we'll probably never be able to clearly trace it back to Iran - so the UN will give Iran the benefit of the doubt... (and the Fifth Column Democrats will blame Bush and the Republicans).


C'mon Mac, you can't tell me that Iran wouldn't fire off a nuke at Israel just to get them off the map and get us into a full blown war with the entire middle east?

At the very least they would supply every muslim country with a few to "protect" them for western ideaology.

WHY in the world would Iran want to get blamed (and subsequently vaporized by us) for being the first to use nukes since Nagasaki when they can achieve the exact same results and get away scott-free under the scenario I posted???

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:52:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.


I do agree the mindset is there
If Iran nukes anything there will be a major mess as i do not think that the UN and Europe could possibly ignore that but you never know

If Hitler had nukes would he have used them?

If Iran gets nukes, will they use them?

Absolutely NOT.

"Iran" will never use nukes.

They WILL however, supply them to their Islamofascist NGOs who will then ship them into Israel and America, detonate them and we'll probably never be able to clearly trace it back to Iran - so the UN will give Iran the benefit of the doubt... (and the Fifth Column Democrats will blame Bush and the Republicans).


C'mon Mac, you can't tell me that Iran wouldn't fire off a nuke at Israel just to get them off the map and get us into a full blown war with the entire middle east?

At the very least they would supply every muslim country with a few to "protect" them for western ideaology.

WHY in the world would Iran want to get blamed (and subsequently vaporized by us) for being the first to use nukes since Nagasaki when they can achieve the exact same results and get away scott-free under the scenario I posted???




I think they want to drag the entire muslim religion into a holy war against the west.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:55:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up

I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.


I do agree the mindset is there
If Iran nukes anything there will be a major mess as i do not think that the UN and Europe could possibly ignore that but you never know

If Hitler had nukes would he have used them?

If Iran gets nukes, will they use them?

Absolutely NOT.

"Iran" will never use nukes.

They WILL however, supply them to their Islamofascist NGOs who will then ship them into Israel and America, detonate them and we'll probably never be able to clearly trace it back to Iran - so the UN will give Iran the benefit of the doubt... (and the Fifth Column Democrats will blame Bush and the Republicans).


C'mon Mac, you can't tell me that Iran wouldn't fire off a nuke at Israel just to get them off the map and get us into a full blown war with the entire middle east?

At the very least they would supply every muslim country with a few to "protect" them for western ideaology.

WHY in the world would Iran want to get blamed (and subsequently vaporized by us) for being the first to use nukes since Nagasaki when they can achieve the exact same results and get away scott-free under the scenario I posted???

I think they want to drag the entire muslim religion into a holy war against the west.

Nope.

Even THEY know that's a war that would be short and would unwinnable for them.


Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:03:08 PM EDT
No. The Iranian theocracy will not last long. There are a lot of Iranians who are fed up with the religious fanatics and despots. History is on our side.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:06:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:


Nope.

Even THEY know that's a war that would be short and would unwinnable for them.




... Absolutely correct. They have plenty of nasty neighbors that would be eagerly willing to do the deed without immediately or directly being traced to Iran.

... But they would have their fingers in it.

... It's their fate folks, they believe it in the Koran to kill the Eagle
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:14:29 PM EDT
Been to Iraq and interviewed people who wanted to be part of the political government. Found a few bad guys, some with Iranian sympaty. Make no mistake the same idealism, superiority complex is alive and well in the mind of Iran and fanatical Muslims.

The problem today is the same mindset as Chamberlin is present also.......no problem just a little backward contry with a lot of big talk.......they aren't big enough to cause anybody but other little neighbor countries a problem.

WAKE UP, Iran has the ability to field a large army, equiped better than Hilter could only dream of.

Russia and China is their munitions supplier, they have disposable income from oil. Now they are real colse to going nuclear. Can't reach us? They did a test shoot a missle off of a boat and did a mid air expolsion, sounds like a test run for an EMP nuke.

As far as us being imperial, damm straight, nothing wrong with being proactive, I read a lot of post of shooting bad guys coming into your house, from some of the Bush haters they wouldn't shoot until the bad guy until he was actively started to rape your wife.
NO, you shoot the bad guy before he breaks the door down all the way, his blood stays outside my house.

And don't think for one minute that every other "backward" Muslim country woun't join in agiast us.

Not base on spectulation, just real life and actually talking with hundreds of them for months.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:25:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
Iran has no war machine orway to fund building anything like Nazi Germany. Iran is just what it has always been, a shithole.



One word Oil and if they had one they would use it. It would only take 2 or 3 to wipe out Israel but not before Israel retaliated, Things would really be a mess, but it would not suprise if the idiot running Iran things he can come out ahead. He probably also thinks he would be a hero in the middle east. No matter what Iran with Nukes should make everyone a little nervous.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:41:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NavajoGunOwner:
Been to Iraq and interviewed people who wanted to be part of the political government. Found a few bad guys, some with Iranian sympaty. Make no mistake the same idealism, superiority complex is alive and well in the mind of Iran and fanatical Muslims.

The problem today is the same mindset as Chamberlin is present also.......no problem just a little backward contry with a lot of big talk.......they aren't big enough to cause anybody but other little neighbor countries a problem.

WAKE UP, Iran has the ability to field a large army, equiped better than Hilter could only dream of.

Russia and China is their munitions supplier, they have disposable income from oil. Now they are real colse to going nuclear. Can't reach us? They did a test shoot a missle off of a boat and did a mid air expolsion, sounds like a test run for an EMP nuke.

As far as us being imperial, damm straight, nothing wrong with being proactive, I read a lot of post of shooting bad guys coming into your house, from some of the Bush haters they wouldn't shoot until the bad guy until he was actively started to rape your wife.
NO, you shoot the bad guy before he breaks the door down all the way, his blood stays outside my house.

And don't think for one minute that every other "backward" Muslim country woun't join in agiast us.

Not base on spectulation, just real life and actually talking with hundreds of them for months.



... I like the way you think
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:48:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 7:52:31 PM EDT by NavajoGunOwner]
By 2004 the Army was organized in four corps, with four armored divisions, six infantry divisions, two commando brigades, an airborne brigade and other smaller independent formations. Each Iranian division has a different organization. Only the 92nd Division has enough equipment to be a true armored division, and two of the armored divisions are much larger than the others. The 28th and 84th infantry divisions are much more heavily mechanized than the others. Smaller formations in the army include the 23rd Special Forces Division, established in 1993-1994, and the 55th Paratroop Division. One source reports that the 23rd Special Forces Division is the most professional units in the Iranian Army, with 5,000 regulars soldiers [no conscripts].
About 350,00 men total Edit, Make that 513,00 men other number was three years old.

Equipment

The IIGF operated almost 1,000 medium tanks in 1986. Although a large number were British-made Chieftains and American-made M-60s, an undetermined number of Soviet-made T-54 and T-55s, T-59s, T-62s, and T-72s were also part of the inventory, all captured from the Iraqis or acquired from North Korea and China. There was also a complement of fifty British-made Scorpion light tanks. Several hundred Urutu and Cascavel armored fighting vehicles from Brazil joined American-made M-113s and Soviet-made BTR-50-60s. An undetermined number of Soviet-made Scud surface-to-surface missiles were acquired from a third country, believed to be Libya. And in November 1986, the United States revealed that it had supplied the Iranian military with Hawk surface-to-air missiles and TOW antitank missiles via Israel. ( Every hear of backward engineering?)

In 1989, Iran bought armoured personnel carriers, multiple rocket launch systems (MLRS), and 100 T-72 MBTs. In 1993, Iran went into negotiations with Russia for 400 T-42 MBts, and the necessay training and equipment, and 500 BMP-s Armoured Infantry Fighting Vehicles (AIFVs). During FY92, Iran procured 150 BMP-1 AIFVs and 30 Chinese 152mm Type 83 towed artillery. (Sounds like a Sh--hole country with alot of money to spend)
Iran has become the third country in the Middle East to build main battle tanks (MBTs). Until recently, Israel was the only country in the area able to build an MBT, with its Merkava. Egypt has also begun building the US General Dynamics Land Systems M1A1 MBT.

The army's aviation unit, whose main operational facilities were located at Esfahan, was largely equipped with United States aircraft, although some helicopters were of Italian manufacture. In 1986 army aviation operated some 65 light fixed-wing aircraft, but its strength lay in its estimated 320 combat helicopters, down from 720 in 1980.

Now they are getting nukes....not a problem? It has all the potential of being another Nazi Germany. But those with their head in the sand will just ignore all this.
Edit: Oh, they spent 9.7 trillion dollars last year on their military.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:58:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up

I'm not referring to skillset or technology,more to the comparison to mindset.

They imo are just the spearhead for an entire islamic coalition against the west.


I do agree the mindset is there
If Iran nukes anything there will be a major mess as i do not think that the UN and Europe could possibly ignore that but you never know

If Hitler had nukes would he have used them?

If Iran gets nukes, will they use them?

Absolutely NOT.

"Iran" will never use nukes.

They WILL however, supply them to their Islamofascist NGOs who will then ship them into Israel and America, detonate them and we'll probably never be able to clearly trace it back to Iran - so the UN will give Iran the benefit of the doubt... (and the Fifth Column Democrats will blame Bush and the Republicans).


C'mon Mac, you can't tell me that Iran wouldn't fire off a nuke at Israel just to get them off the map and get us into a full blown war with the entire middle east?

At the very least they would supply every muslim country with a few to "protect" them for western ideaology.

WHY in the world would Iran want to get blamed (and subsequently vaporized by us) for being the first to use nukes since Nagasaki when they can achieve the exact same results and get away scott-free under the scenario I posted???

I think they want to drag the entire muslim religion into a holy war against the west.

Nope.

Even THEY know that's a war that would be short and would unwinnable for them.





I respectfully disagree. In the mindset of the mentally ill, you are a hero if you "take on the Great Satan..." even if you get your ass kicked, and were doing an awful, evil, and demonstrably hateful thing at the time. The act of "striking out" is viewed as the heroic event, since these fucktards know how piss-weak they are and that they could never win and be ACTUAL heros to somebody.

Their self-destructiveness is viewed as a positive in their culture. They won't be able to help themselves - look, they blow up weddings, regularly defile the tennets of their demonic "religion," and are more admired by fellow fucktards than are the U.S. Soldiers rebuilding their schools.

When bad people have an image of "what is good" in their tiny, shriveled cortexes, they see everything as an exact opposite to you - think Hitler sitting in his prison cell in Munich in 1925, polishing off that last chapter of Mein Kampf... "Hmmm, vere should I write about der part vere I plan on wiping out ze Jews? Ze veld von't be able to shtop thanking me for ze gut deed I am about to do!"
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:45:31 PM EDT
Bump for more opinions.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:01:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By NavajoGunOwner:
Been to Iraq and interviewed people who wanted to be part of the political government. Found a few bad guys, some with Iranian sympaty. Make no mistake the same idealism, superiority complex is alive and well in the mind of Iran and fanatical Muslims.

The problem today is the same mindset as Chamberlin is present also.......no problem just a little backward contry with a lot of big talk.......they aren't big enough to cause anybody but other little neighbor countries a problem.

WAKE UP, Iran has the ability to field a large army, equiped better than Hilter could only dream of.

Russia and China is their munitions supplier, they have disposable income from oil. Now they are real colse to going nuclear. Can't reach us? They did a test shoot a missle off of a boat and did a mid air expolsion, sounds like a test run for an EMP nuke.

As far as us being imperial, damm straight, nothing wrong with being proactive, I read a lot of post of shooting bad guys coming into your house, from some of the Bush haters they wouldn't shoot until the bad guy until he was actively started to rape your wife.
NO, you shoot the bad guy before he breaks the door down all the way, his blood stays outside my house.

And don't think for one minute that every other "backward" Muslim country woun't join in agiast us.

Not base on spectulation, just real life and actually talking with hundreds of them for months.



... I like the way you think



For awile I was somewhat opposed to that opinion, but now I believe you are correct. It seemed harsh at first to think like that, but its the truth. Why wait to get killed when you can kill them first and prevent your own death.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:54:13 PM EDT
Desert Cowboy, glad your coming around (I'm orginally from AZ Lake Powell area)
Look up some of the Iraq Bloggers and see what they are saying,.
I have friends still over their and while it has become more dangerous to go out they are still getting alot done and the Iraq people are starting to do alot of things on their own. What the media "forgets" to tell us is more than 3/4 of the contry is safe and fuctioning and improving everyday!!!

This is a funny story , but not what the kid realizes in such a short time, he notices something about the terrorist that our media has show their bias by not reporting this simple observation. ( A teenager figured it out in only a couple days!)

www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/29/D8EQ72LO3.html

By JASON STRAZIUSO
Associated Press Writer
Dec 29 6:29 PM US/Eastern

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Maybe it was the time the taxi dumped him at the Iraq-Kuwait border, leaving him alone in the middle of the desert. Or when he drew a crowd at a Baghdad food stand after using an Arabic phrase book to order. Or the moment a Kuwaiti cab driver almost punched him in the face when he balked at the $100 fare. But at some point, Farris Hassan, a 16-year-old from Florida, realized that traveling to Iraq by himself was not the safest thing he could have done with his Christmas vacation.

And he didn't even tell his parents.

Hassan's dangerous adventure winds down with the 101st Airborne delivering the Fort Lauderdale teen to the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, which had been on the lookout for him and promises to see him back to the United States this weekend.

It begins with a high school class on "immersion journalism" and one overly eager _ or naively idealistic _ student who's lucky to be alive after going way beyond what any teacher would ask.

As a junior this year at a Pine Crest School, a prep academy of about 700 students in Fort Lauderdale, Hassan studied writers like John McPhee in the book "The New Journalism," an introduction to immersion journalism _ a writer who lives the life of his subject in order to better understand it.

Diving headfirst into an assignment, Hassan, whose parents were born in Iraq but have lived in the United States for about 35 years, hung out at a local mosque. The teen, who says he has no religious affiliation, added that he even spent an entire night until 6 a.m. talking politics with a group of Muslim men, a level of "immersion" his teacher characterized as dangerous and irresponsible.

The next trimester his class was assigned to choose an international topic and write editorials about it, Hassan said. He chose the Iraq war and decided to practice immersion journalism there, too, though he knows his school in no way endorses his travels.

"I thought I'd go the extra mile for that, or rather, a few thousand miles," he told The Associated Press.

Using money his parents had given him at one point, he bought a $900 plane ticket and took off from school a week before Christmas vacation started, skipping classes and leaving the country on Dec. 11.

His goal: Baghdad. Those privy to his plans: two high school buddies.

Given his heritage, Hassan could almost pass as Iraqi. His father's background helped him secure an entry visa, and native Arabs would see in his face Iraqi features and a familiar skin tone. His wispy beard was meant to help him blend in.

But underneath that Mideast veneer was full-blooded American teen, a born-and-bred Floridian sporting white Nike tennis shoes and trendy jeans. And as soon as the lanky, 6-foot teenager opened his mouth _ he speaks no Arabic _ his true nationality would have betrayed him.

Traveling on his own in a land where insurgents and jihadists have kidnapped more than 400 foreigners, killing at least 39 of them, Hassan walked straight into a death zone. On Monday, his first full day in Iraq, six vehicle bombs exploded in Baghdad, killing five people and wounding more than 40.

The State Department strongly advises U.S. citizens against traveling to Iraq, saying it "remains very dangerous." Forty American citizens have been kidnapped since the war started in March 2003, of which 10 have been killed, a U.S. official said. About 15 remain missing.

"Travel warnings are issued for countries that are considered especially dangerous for Americans, and one of the strongest warnings covers travel to Iraq," said Elizabeth Colton, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.

Colton said the embassy's consular section can provide only limited help to Americans in Iraq, though once officials learn of a potentially dangerous situation every effort is made to assist.

Inside the safety of Baghdad's Green Zone, an Embassy official from the Hostage Working Group talked to Hassan about how risky travel is in Iraq.

"This place is incredibly dangerous to individual private American citizens, especially minors, and all of us, especially the military, went to extraordinary lengths to ensure this youth's safety, even if he doesn't acknowledge it or even understand it," a U.S. official who wasn't authorized to speak to the media said on condition of anonymity.

Hassan's extra-mile attitude took him east through eight time zones, from Fort Lauderdale to Kuwait City. His plan was to take a taxi across the border and ultimately to Baghdad _ an unconventional, expensive and utterly dangerous route.

It was in Kuwait City that he first called his parents to tell them of his plans _ and that he was now in the Middle East.

His mother, Shatha Atiya, a psychologist, said she was "shocked and terrified." She had told him she would take him to Iraq, but only after the country stabilizes.

"He thinks he can be an ambassador for democracy around the world. It's admirable but also agony for a parent," Atiya said.

Attempting to get into Iraq, Hassan took a taxi from Kuwait City to the border 55 miles away. He spoke English at the border and was soon surrounded by about 15 men, a scene he wanted no part of. On the drive back to Kuwait City, a taxi driver almost punched him when he balked at the fee.

"In one day I probably spent like $250 on taxis," he said. "And they're so evil too, because they ripped me off, and when I wouldn't pay the ripped-off price they started threatening me. It was bad."

It could have been worse _ the border could have been open.

As luck would have it, the teenager found himself at the Iraq-Kuwait line sometime on Dec. 13, and the border security was extra tight because of Iraq's Dec. 15 parliamentary elections. The timing saved him from a dangerous trip.

"If they'd let me in from Kuwait, I probably would have died," he acknowledged. "That would have been a bad idea."

He again called his father, who told him to come home. But the teen insisted on going to Baghdad. His father advised him to stay with family friends in Beirut, Lebanon, so he flew there, spending 10 days before flying to Baghdad on Christmas.

His ride at Baghdad International Airport, arranged by the family friends in Lebanon, dropped him off at an international hotel where Americans were staying.

He says he only strayed far from that hotel once, in search of food. He walked into a nearby shop and asked for a menu. When no menu appeared, he pulled out his Arabic phrase book, and after fumbling around found the word "menu." The stand didn't have one. Then a worker tried to read some of the English phrases.

"And I'm like, 'Well, I should probably be going.' It was not a safe place. The way they were looking at me kind of freaked me out," he said.

It was mid-afternoon Tuesday, after his second night in Baghdad, that he sought out editors at The Associated Press and announced he was in Iraq to do research and humanitarian work. AP staffers had never seen an unaccompanied teenage American walk into their war zone office. ("I would have been less surprised if little green men had walked in," said editor Patrick Quinn.)

Wearing a blue long-sleeve shirt in addition to his jeans and sneakers, Hassan appeared eager and outgoing but slightly sheepish about his situation.

The AP quickly called the U.S. embassy.

Embassy officials had been on the lookout for Hassan, at the request of his parents, who still weren't sure exactly where he was. One U.S. military officer said he was shocked the teen was still alive. The 101st Airborne lieutenant who picked him up from the hotel said it was the wildest story he'd ever heard.

Hassan accepted being turned over to authorities as the safest thing to do, but seemed to accept the idea more readily over time.

Most of Hassan's wild tale could not be corroborated, but his larger story arc was in line with details provided by friends and family members back home.

Dangerous and dramatic, Hassan's trip has also been educational. He had tea with Kuwaitis under a tent in the middle of a desert. He says he interviewed Christians in south Lebanon. And he said he spoke with U.S. soldiers guarding his Baghdad hotel who told him they are treated better by Sunni Arabs _ the minority population that enjoyed a high standing under Saddam Hussein and are now thought to fuel the insurgency _ than by the majority Shiites.

His father, Redha Hassan, a doctor, said his son is an idealist, principled and moral. Aside from the research he wanted to accomplish, he also wrote in an essay saying he wanted to volunteer in Iraq.

He said he wrote half the essay while in the United States, half in Kuwait, and e-mailed it to his teachers Dec. 15 while in the Kuwait City airport.

"There is a struggle in Iraq between good and evil, between those striving for freedom and liberty and those striving for death and destruction," he wrote.

"Those terrorists are not human but pure evil.
For their goals to be thwarted, decent individuals must answer justice's call for help. Unfortunately altruism is always in short supply. Not enough are willing to set aside the material ambitions of this transient world, put morality first, and risk their lives for the cause of humanity. So I will."

"I want to experience during my Christmas the same hardships ordinary Iraqis experience everyday, so that I may better empathize with their distress," he wrote.

Farris Hassan says he thinks a trip to the Middle East is a healthy vacation compared with a trip to Colorado for holiday skiing.

"You go to, like, the worst place in the world and things are terrible," he said. "When you go back home you have such a new appreciation for all the blessing you have there, and I'm just going to be, like, ecstatic for life."

His mother, however, sees things differently.

"I don't think I will ever leave him in the house alone again," she said. "He showed a lack of judgment."

Hassan may not mind, at least for a while. He now understands how dangerous his trip was, that he was only a whisker away from death.

His plans on his return to Florida: "Kiss the ground and hug everyone."




Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:00:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
No, the Germans could fight and were on the leading edge of technology
ROPers sure the fuck can't fight and are in the 1950s sciencewise
The thought is there but nothing to back it up



In the world of 1933 it took complete conquest to achieve their aims.

In today's world with the lack of regard for human life posessed by the terrorists and the willingness of many parts of America and the rest of the civilized world, I doubt it would take that much for them to win.

In case no one noticed, there aren;t a lot of Churchills left in the world.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:01:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 5:05:16 PM EDT by echo459]
No, they dont have those spiffy uniforms.


eta. or Kruppstahl.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:35:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


In case no one noticed, there aren;t a lot of Churchills left in the world.





But why so many Chamberlins?

I guess we have a habit of forgetting our past and are bound to repeat it.......
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:47:08 PM EDT
Iran is a democracy waiting to get out. The last election there was rigged. The majority of the people want a democracy. The problem is the small group who holds controll of the country is the one with all the power.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:17:19 PM EDT
I think we tend to overlook how huge Germany's military industrial complex was as compared with Iran or any other 3rd world country.... Germany could make anything we could and most of it better than anything we had for a long time.

Plus they had easily a million veterans of ww 1, many of victorious battles on the eastern front.

They were a superpower, that wiped out France, which on paper at least was their match, and would have beaten UK if not for our help. Only their invasion of Russia saved Europe. We would never have risked a D-day invasion in 1944 if Hitler's army remained largely intact and unbloodied.

They had a) the best land army in history b) a superb airforce c) a decent navy, especially subs and battleships... almost enough....

Iran on the other hand is surrounded on all sides by American airbases. Our 150,000 troops in Iraq will be drawn down, but there will be a sizable contingent left for good in Kuwait, Qutar, and probably also Iraq for the foreseable future unless a dimocrat wins in 08.,

They are buying their stuff from Russia - that alone is a strike against them.

Their troops - the upper echelon types knew a slug fest ww1 style fight, not blitzkreig style America learned from Germany.

Their mountains will help...but not by much and will hinder them as much as they do us should we invade....

Even supposing they get a handful of icbms... a handful of a bombs.... they won't be the modern analoge of Nazi germany in firepower and industrial capacity, a trained citizenry, etc.

Ideologically, sure, pure nut cases, zealots to the core...but Nazi Germany was more than zealotry and fantastic uniforms.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:31:59 PM EDT
They may have had the potential to be, remember Hitler grew stronger and braver by taking over his small, weak neighbors.

But, when Iran looks east or west, what do they see........................
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