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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:10:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:10:23 PM EDT by Dace]
Can anyone ID this photograph of a German soldier firing a pistol? Is it a Walther?



Another




Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:11:28 PM EDT
It's the enemy. That's all I know about it.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:11:29 PM EDT
One looks like a Walter, the other a Makarov.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:13:44 PM EDT
A Walther PP, I would say.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:15:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:24:26 PM EDT by CZ75_9MM]
The bottom one looks like a MAB.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:16:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
It's the enemy. That's all I know about it.



One decade an enemy, the next an ally. Things change.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:16:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:17:14 PM EDT
Looks like some nazi assholes practicing shooting women and children in the head.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:17:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
It's the enemy. That's all I know about it.



One decade an enemy, the next an ally. Things change.



Not in that uniform, chief.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:18:13 PM EDT
Looks like a Walther PP

(not PPK, a PP)
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:20:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:33:17 PM EDT by Sukebe]
Looks like one of the Mauser Sauer type pistols to me.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:21:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:22:04 PM EDT
Walther PPK
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:23:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:40:51 PM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
It's the enemy. That's all I know about it.



One decade an enemy, the next an ally. Things change.



Not in that uniform, chief.



lol - roger that. I don't recall ever being friendly with nazi scum.



I am surprised by this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying any person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:23:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:24:47 PM EDT by N1Rampage]
East German?

EDIT: See?

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=233135
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:24:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
It's the enemy. That's all I know about it.



One decade an enemy, the next an ally. Things change.



You mean like the Japanese? Oh, wait.....
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:29:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
It's the enemy. That's all I know about it.



One decade an enemy, the next an ally. Things change.



Not in that uniform, chief.



lol - roger that. I don't recall ever being friendly with nazi scum.



I am surprised my this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying anyone person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



Exactly. It isn'y like every corporal had a miniature two-prisoner concentration camp of his own. Many German soldiers fought quite bravely during the war, and had no choice in the politics.

Oh and Spectre, nice sensational women and children comment. Maybe they were aiming at cute little puppy dogs instead...
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:33:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cjk1:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
It's the enemy. That's all I know about it.



One decade an enemy, the next an ally. Things change.



Not in that uniform, chief.



lol - roger that. I don't recall ever being friendly with nazi scum.



I am surprised my this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying anyone person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



Exactly. It isn'y like every corporal had a miniature two-prisoner concentration camp of his own. Many German soldiers fought quite bravely during the war, and had no choice in the politics.

Oh and Spectre, nice sensational women and children comment. Maybe they were aiming at cute little puppy dogs instead...



Then again, maybe not.



Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:38:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:40:10 PM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By cjk1:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
It's the enemy. That's all I know about it.



One decade an enemy, the next an ally. Things change.



Not in that uniform, chief.



lol - roger that. I don't recall ever being friendly with nazi scum.



I am surprised my this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying anyone person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



Exactly. It isn'y like every corporal had a miniature two-prisoner concentration camp of his own. Many German soldiers fought quite bravely during the war, and had no choice in the politics.

Oh and Spectre, nice sensational women and children comment. Maybe they were aiming at cute little puppy dogs instead...



Then again, maybe not.
www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/ww2-pix/einsatz3.jpg








Civilians shot by USGIs in Vietnam, little village called My Lai.

So whats your fucking point? Every side in every war commited attrocities. Why dont you fuck off?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:41:05 PM EDT
ID say Walther PP
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:43:36 PM EDT
Walther PP, looks like.

I haven't seen that shooting style in a long time.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:43:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:44:02 PM EDT by THR-Thumper]

So whats your fucking point?


Trying to equate the actions of a rogue group of jacked up American troops to the Nazi government's stated policy of genocide is ridiculous.

Ever been to Dachau, Dace? You ought to make the trip sometime.

BTW, the pistol is a friggin' PP.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:47:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:50:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:

So whats your fucking point?


Trying to equate the actions of a rogue group of jacked up American troops to the Nazi government's stated policy of genocide is ridiculous.

Ever been to Dachau, Dace? You ought to make the trip sometime.

BTW, the pistol is a friggin' PP.



trying to make blanket statement that being a German soldier equals Nazi and scum and murderer of innocent women and children is also.

Its like saying all americans are scum because of what a few handful did at Abu Gharib prison. Its what the rest of the world does to us, its what the terrorist do to us, they group us and say well one is bad so they all are in. I am sorry but you or anyone else who makes a blanket statement is just plain ignorant of historical facts.

No never been to Dachau. Just the site of Bergen Belson, Buchenwald, and Flossenberg. Do those count? How about talking with German Jews first hand about what happened. Does that count? What about talking to a town mayor about what happened first hand. Does that count? What about talking to people who were in the military then. Does that count? What about visiting the holocaust museum in DC, does that count?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:53:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Dace:
I am surprised by this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying any person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



To save yourself from future surprises, I can tell you now that anytime nazis are being discussed, I will happily bad mouth them.



I would also answer: yes. The myth of European resistance and ignorance to Hitler's practices is just that, a myth; the majority of Europeans had some idea of what Hitler was doing in the camps, and quite frankly, most supported it.

I don't see anyone sympathizing with the common Al-Qaida footsoldier, who is,"just a man forced into the whole situation because of circumstances out of his control", and I don't view Al-Qaida any more favorably than the nazis.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:55:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

I don't see anyone sympathizing with the common Al-Qaida footsoldier,



Yeah, nobody other than the entire Muslim world
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:58:07 PM EDT
Those supposed 'innocent' German soldiers sure as hell followed the nazis into invading most of Europe and half of the Soviet Union, didn't they? That was until they started losing and then there was no such thing as a nazi in Germany...

You trying to say that almost all of them had no fricking clue about the camps or einsatzgruppen killing civilians right behind the front lines? No one had any clue at all even though Jews just started disappearing? Bullshit.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:58:38 PM EDT
All WW2 era Germans were some type of supernatural evil incarnate



Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:59:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

I don't see anyone sympathizing with the common Al-Qaida footsoldier,



Yeah, nobody other than the entire Muslim world



and the entirety of Western Europe sympathized with Hitler and rolled over for him; both Europe and the Muslim world hold sympathetic views with what were/are our enemies.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:02:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Dace:
I am surprised by this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying any person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



To save yourself from future surprises, I can tell you now that anytime nazis are being discussed, I will happily bad mouth them.



Well then ignorance runs deep. Sorry but thats how I feel. To group all people who have the same trait or profession is wrong, racists and liberals do the same thing.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:03:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cjk1:
All WW2 era Germans were some type of supernatural evil incarnate






no, the ones who weren't in the military were a bunch of willfully ignorant sheeple who IMO weren't even worthy of our pity. These people willingly got Hitler into power, and either supported or remained ignorant of his practices.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:04:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:05:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 9:05:53 PM EDT by fike]
Good god.

Piss poor presentations for both sides of this argument.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:08:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Dace:
I am surprised by this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying any person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



To save yourself from future surprises, I can tell you now that anytime nazis are being discussed, I will happily bad mouth them.



Well then ignorance runs deep. Sorry but thats how I feel. To group all people who have the same trait or profession is wrong, racists and liberals do the same thing.



I am sorry, but when you are a soldier, you represent your country, you take on its values. The values of Germany at the time are racist, vitriolic, and took us into another world war. If the Germans really didn't like Hitler and his concentration camps, they could do what people with testicles actually do: resist.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:09:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Dace:
I am surprised by this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying any person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



To save yourself from future surprises, I can tell you now that anytime nazis are being discussed, I will happily bad mouth them.



Well then ignorance runs deep. Sorry but thats how I feel. To group all people who have the same trait or profession is wrong, racists and liberals do the same thing.



Their common trait wasn't their profession, it was their stated ambition to destroy a race of people.

That's not "some type of supernatural evil incarnate;" it's plain old, boring, simple evil.

Or perhaps you believe that the average soldier didn't know about Jud Süß.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:12:05 PM EDT
Whatever. No amount of logic or reason will change your minds. Yes the Germans are evil. Evil NAZIs, the whole lot.


Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:13:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cjk1:
Whatever. No amount of logic or reason will change your minds. Yes the Germans are evil. Evil NAZIs, the whole lot.





I am of German and French lineage, my German side came over in the early 1900's. I don't hate Germans in general, I just hate the Germans of the period of 1933-1945.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:14:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 9:15:37 PM EDT by THR-Thumper]
Here's some logic and reason for ya:


When you do your duty, you are one of us,

we extend our hand to you, we honor your humanity and your service for Germany. Let us work together so that in the future, as many people as possible will be able to serve the nation in both ways.

That is a piece of the thinking of blood and race that National Socialism has taught us. And there is another aspect. When we see people today, we can recognize that we are not all alike. There are differences in value;

each person does not have the same value as everyone else.



Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:14:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fike:
Good god.

Piss poor presentations for both sides of this argument.




What argument?

I love the double standard where we have people defending soldiers that fought my grandfather under a swastika, but at the same time we have people that won't buy no damned Jap car because of what they did in WW2.

FWIW, I do believe that there's got to be some sort of consideration for the average foot-soldier after the fact. After the war is over you have to sort of let it be over eventually. Not saying what they fought for or did was right, of course not.

I REALLY believe that the descendents of such people should certainly not be held accountable for the crimes of the father, so to speak. There's a LOT of that WRT Japan. Germany, however, we can sit and have arguments about whether Hans Wehrmacht really knew about the death camps and how brave he was.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:18:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Dace:
I am surprised by this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying any person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



To save yourself from future surprises, I can tell you now that anytime nazis are being discussed, I will happily bad mouth them.



Well then ignorance runs deep. Sorry but thats how I feel. To group all people who have the same trait or profession is wrong, racists and liberals do the same thing.



I am sorry, but when you are a soldier, you represent your country, you take on its values. The values of Germany at the time are racist, vitriolic, and took us into another world war. If the Germans really didn't like Hitler and his concentration camps, they could do what people with testicles actually do: resist.



Much easier said than done. Once the Nazi's gained power and total control, resistance was futile. They had no problem making not only you but your whole town disappear.

Check out what they did in Czechoslovakia when the butcher Reinhard Heydrich was killed. They picked a town, gathered all males above 15 and shot them dead. Everyone else went to the concentration camps, then they systematically blew every damn structure into rubble and hauled it off. Then they tilled the remains of the town and planted grain. Finally, they removed the town from all maps. The Nazi's did a similiar thing to Hitler's hometown in Austria, he had a few secrets that he wished remain there.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:21:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By fike:
Good god.

Piss poor presentations for both sides of this argument.




What argument?




Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:22:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Dace:
I am surprised by this kind of talk from a mod, so are you saying any person who fought for the Germans during world war two was scum?



To save yourself from future surprises, I can tell you now that anytime nazis are being discussed, I will happily bad mouth them.



Well then ignorance runs deep. Sorry but thats how I feel. To group all people who have the same trait or profession is wrong, racists and liberals do the same thing.



I am sorry, but when you are a soldier, you represent your country, you take on its values. The values of Germany at the time are racist, vitriolic, and took us into another world war. If the Germans really didn't like Hitler and his concentration camps, they could do what people with testicles actually do: resist.



Much easier said than done. Once the Nazi's gained power and total control, resistance was futile. They had no problem making not only you but your whole town disappear.

Check out what they did in Czechoslovakia when the butcher Reinhard Heydrich was killed. They picked a town, gathered all males above 15 and shot them dead. Everyone else went to the concentration camps, then they systematically blew every damn structure into rubble and hauled it off. Then they tilled the remains of the town and planted grain. Finally, they removed the town from all maps. The Nazi's did a similiar thing to Hitler's hometown in Austria, he had a few secrets that he wished remain there.



I am just giving the "right thing" to do, everything else is wrong. Thus, I may excuse some of the Germans for partaking in it because they either did it or died; however, don't expect me to say that they are good and honorable people, they are cowards.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:27:12 PM EDT
damn this thread went right into the fuckin shitter.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:30:50 PM EDT
Because somebody mentioned the N word...
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:34:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:
damn this thread went right into the fuckin shitter.




+1

Guy just asked what kind of pistol was in the photo.

Lots of Nazi guns in this thread, but no one made an issue of it.

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=421094&page=3

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:35:56 PM EDT
My grandfather lived in Holland during WWII and from stories he would tell he had to hide when the Germans came around or they would force him into the army. He also said some times would get questioned by the Germans and he told them he was younger then he was and would have cloths on that most dutch under a certain age would wear.

He also told me a story about how someone he worked for owned a Harley and he was able to ride it. His boss would let my grandpa ride it home since he didn't have any other transportation. He said one day there was an ice storm and he had to ride home on the Harley with his feet down the whole way home.

I miss my grandpa. He died a year ago next week.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 3:55:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:
Can anyone ID this photograph of a German soldier firing a pistol? Is it a Walther?



looks like a luftwaffe officer firing a walther pp at a firing range (i think that's a firing pos at his feet).
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:00:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:

So whats your fucking point?


Trying to equate the actions of a rogue group of jacked up American troops to the Nazi government's stated policy of genocide is ridiculous.

Ever been to Dachau, Dace? You ought to make the trip sometime.

BTW, the pistol is a friggin' PP.



trying to make blanket statement that being a German soldier equals Nazi and scum and murderer of innocent women and children is also.

Its like saying all americans are scum because of what a few handful did at Abu Gharib prison. Its what the rest of the world does to us, its what the terrorist do to us, they group us and say well one is bad so they all are in. I am sorry but you or anyone else who makes a blanket statement is just plain ignorant of historical facts.

No never been to Dachau. Just the site of Bergen Belson, Buchenwald, and Flossenberg. Do those count? How about talking with German Jews first hand about what happened. Does that count? What about talking to a town mayor about what happened first hand. Does that count? What about talking to people who were in the military then. Does that count? What about visiting the holocaust museum in DC, does that count?



Awesome, awesome place. Very powerful and moving.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:19:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 4:23:19 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Originally Posted By Dace:

Civilians shot by USGIs in Vietnam, little village called My Lai.

Yes, indeed.

And Lt. William Calley and the men who participated in this act were prosecuted by US military authorities.

So whats your fucking point?

The United States is a nation of laws.

Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan and the Soviet Union did NOT prosecute their soldiers.

In that last photo, the Nazi soldier's commanding officers were looking on approvingly.....

Every side in every war commited attrocities.

And the United States prosecutes its soldiers who commit atrocities.

Why dont you fuck off?

Rhetorical question, I hope.

Eric The(GoodGrief)Hun
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:48:02 AM EDT
sig 232
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:51:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cruze5:
sig 232


could that be the mauser hsc (or whatever it's called)?
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