School cop dies after being punched by 12yo girl - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - School cop dies after being punched by 12yo girl (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:38:28 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
IF a punch was all it took to cause a heart attack, then the cop was not long for this world and would have died at the next altercation one way or another.

I think there is a certain point in the heartbeat (PQRST, someone help me out here) where any heart is vulnerable to impact - like a kid getting hit with a baseball in the chest & dying.

Either way, the kid should be sent to juvey Sing-Sing until her 21st.

true to a point.

as much as this 12yr needs an ass whooping i am NOT willing to write off a 12yr kid to an inept juvenille legal system over what at worst is an accident. Yes she knew she was acting out but i have NO dobt she never believed in her wildest dreams this cop would die. Odds are she is going to have to live with this the rest of her life as it is.

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:40:50 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IF a punch was all it took to cause a heart attack, then the cop was not long for this world and would have died at the next altercation one way or another.

I think there is a certain point in the heartbeat (PQRST, someone help me out here) where any heart is vulnerable to impact - like a kid getting hit with a baseball in the chest & dying.

Either way, the kid should be sent to juvey Sing-Sing until her 21st.

true to a point.

as much as this 12yr needs an ass whooping i am NOT willing to write off a 12yr kid to an inept juvenille legal system over what at worst is an accident. Yes she knew she was acting out but i have NO dobt she never believed in her wildest dreams this cop would die. Odds are she is going to have to live with this the rest of her life as it is.

You're too much of a softie. Hard time for the kid. I should be a moderator. I would be merciless.

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:45:00 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IF a punch was all it took to cause a heart attack, then the cop was not long for this world and would have died at the next altercation one way or another.

I think there is a certain point in the heartbeat (PQRST, someone help me out here) where any heart is vulnerable to impact - like a kid getting hit with a baseball in the chest & dying.

Either way, the kid should be sent to juvey Sing-Sing until her 21st.

true to a point.

as much as this 12yr needs an ass whooping i am NOT willing to write off a 12yr kid to an inept juvenille legal system over what at worst is an accident.

Even if you ignore the death, she is still guilty of assault and battery on a police officer. Is that an "accident"? Should decent kids have to compete for teachers time/attention with this girl?

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:45:11 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IF a punch was all it took to cause a heart attack, then the cop was not long for this world and would have died at the next altercation one way or another.

I think there is a certain point in the heartbeat (PQRST, someone help me out here) where any heart is vulnerable to impact - like a kid getting hit with a baseball in the chest & dying.

Either way, the kid should be sent to juvey Sing-Sing until her 21st.

true to a point.

as much as this 12yr needs an ass whooping i am NOT willing to write off a 12yr kid to an inept juvenille legal system over what at worst is an accident. Yes she knew she was acting out but i have NO dobt she never believed in her wildest dreams this cop would die. Odds are she is going to have to live with this the rest of her life as it is.

You're too much of a softie. Hard time for the kid. I should be a moderator. I would be merciless.

The kid was not doing anything that would usually result in the death of someone, and was not operating any weapon or machinery that could be said was being used in a negligent manner. I can't see hard time for her, definitely time for assault, but not manslaughter. If it were anyone else than a cop this whole thing would be a non-issue.

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:47:47 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IF a punch was all it took to cause a heart attack, then the cop was not long for this world and would have died at the next altercation one way or another.

I think there is a certain point in the heartbeat (PQRST, someone help me out here) where any heart is vulnerable to impact - like a kid getting hit with a baseball in the chest & dying.

Either way, the kid should be sent to juvey Sing-Sing until her 21st.

true to a point.

as much as this 12yr needs an ass whooping i am NOT willing to write off a 12yr kid to an inept juvenille legal system over what at worst is an accident. Yes she knew she was acting out but i have NO dobt she never believed in her wildest dreams this cop would die. Odds are she is going to have to live with this the rest of her life as it is.

You're too much of a softie. Hard time for the kid. I should be a moderator. I would be merciless.

naaa i just remember my daughter at 12. she is a completely different kid at 16.

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:48:36 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IF a punch was all it took to cause a heart attack, then the cop was not long for this world and would have died at the next altercation one way or another.

I think there is a certain point in the heartbeat (PQRST, someone help me out here) where any heart is vulnerable to impact - like a kid getting hit with a baseball in the chest & dying.

Either way, the kid should be sent to juvey Sing-Sing until her 21st.

true to a point.

as much as this 12yr needs an ass whooping i am NOT willing to write off a 12yr kid to an inept juvenille legal system over what at worst is an accident. Yes she knew she was acting out but i have NO dobt she never believed in her wildest dreams this cop would die. Odds are she is going to have to live with this the rest of her life as it is.

You're too much of a softie. Hard time for the kid. I should be a moderator. I would be merciless.

The kid was not doing anything that would usually result in the death of someone, and was not operating any weapon or machinery that could be said was being used in a negligent manner. I can't see hard time for her, definitely time for assault, but not manslaughter. If it were anyone else than a cop this whole thing would be a non-issue.

I'd send her up the river whether it was a cop or not.

I think we have enough information now to render a verdict, can we get a poll added to this thread?

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:48:40 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IF a punch was all it took to cause a heart attack, then the cop was not long for this world and would have died at the next altercation one way or another.

I think there is a certain point in the heartbeat (PQRST, someone help me out here) where any heart is vulnerable to impact - like a kid getting hit with a baseball in the chest & dying.

Either way, the kid should be sent to juvey Sing-Sing until her 21st.

true to a point.

as much as this 12yr needs an ass whooping i am NOT willing to write off a 12yr kid to an inept juvenille legal system over what at worst is an accident. Yes she knew she was acting out but i have NO dobt she never believed in her wildest dreams this cop would die. Odds are she is going to have to live with this the rest of her life as it is.

You're too much of a softie. Hard time for the kid. I should be a moderator. I would be merciless.

The kid was not doing anything that would usually result in the death of someone, and was not operating any weapon or machinery that could be said was being used in a negligent manner.

Which is why its not first degree murder. she punched her with the intent of causing injury, not death. however it killed her. so its mansalughter. If you sucker punch someone in the head and they fall and smash their skull on the curb its the same thing.

This was not an accident in that it were a deliberate unlawfull assault & battery on another person.

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:50:47 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Even if you ignore the death, she is still guilty of assault and battery on a police officer. Is that an "accident"? Should decent kids have to compete for teachers time/attention with this girl?

I agree 100%. Assault charges should be filed, she should be locked up for her summer vacation and on probation until she is 18. But trying to lock this girl up until she is 18 or 21 is overkill in my opinion. She got out of line and things went horribly wrong.

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:51:13 PM EDT

[#9]

the average IQ in this thread is lower than the age of this Juvenile cancer on society.

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:54:24 PM EDT

[#10]

Where's that poll? I wanna vote! GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:57:03 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Even if you ignore the death, she is still guilty of assault and battery on a police officer. Is that an "accident"? Should decent kids have to compete for teachers time/attention with this girl?

I agree 100%. Assault charges should be filed, she should be locked up for her summer vacation and on probation until she is 18. But trying to lock this girl up until she is 18 or 21 is overkill in my opinion. She got out of line....

Why sugar coat what she did? "Got out of line" is refusing to do you homework or being disruptive in the clasroom. She committed assault and battery on a 58yo woman. If someone punches your mom or grandmother is that just "getting out of line" or is it a violent crime?

Posted: 12/27/2005 2:59:49 PM EDT

[#12]

They never say how old the school cop was... perhaps she was an older woman?

Either way... sad on so many levels...

ETA: didn't follow all the links... so 56...

www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=18082

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:09:57 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even if you ignore the death, she is still guilty of assault and battery on a police officer. Is that an "accident"? Should decent kids have to compete for teachers time/attention with this girl?

I agree 100%. Assault charges should be filed, she should be locked up for her summer vacation and on probation until she is 18. But trying to lock this girl up until she is 18 or 21 is overkill in my opinion. She got out of line....

Why sugar coat what she did? "Got out of line" is refusing to do you homework or being disruptive in the clasroom. She committed assault and battery on a 58yo woman. If someone punches your mom or grandmother is that just "getting out of line" or is it a violent crime?

The cop got hit when she tried to break up a fight the 12yo girl was in. It's not like the 12yo girl snuck up on the cop and hit her. I suppose you had a lot of fighting discipline when you were 12 right? I am not sugarcoating anything, but why would I want to ruin some girls life because a cop that obviously wasn't fit for duty got hurt trying to break up a fight

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:12:19 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even if you ignore the death, she is still guilty of assault and battery on a police officer. Is that an "accident"? Should decent kids have to compete for teachers time/attention with this girl?

I agree 100%. Assault charges should be filed, she should be locked up for her summer vacation and on probation until she is 18. But trying to lock this girl up until she is 18 or 21 is overkill in my opinion. She got out of line....

Why sugar coat what she did? "Got out of line" is refusing to do you homework or being disruptive in the clasroom. She committed assault and battery on a 58yo woman. If someone punches your mom or grandmother is that just "getting out of line" or is it a violent crime?
The cop got hit when she tried to break up a fight the 12yo girl was in. It's not like the 12yo girl snuck up on the cop and hit her. I suppose you had a lot of fighting discipline when you were 12 right? I am not sugarcoating anything, but why would I want to ruin some girls life because a cop that obviously wasn't fit for duty got hurt trying to break up a fight

+1

this cop DID NOT DIE FROM THE HIT.

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:13:05 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even if you ignore the death, she is still guilty of assault and battery on a police officer. Is that an "accident"? Should decent kids have to compete for teachers time/attention with this girl?

I agree 100%. Assault charges should be filed, she should be locked up for her summer vacation and on probation until she is 18. But trying to lock this girl up until she is 18 or 21 is overkill in my opinion. She got out of line....

Why sugar coat what she did? "Got out of line" is refusing to do you homework or being disruptive in the clasroom. She committed assault and battery on a 58yo woman. If someone punches your mom or grandmother is that just "getting out of line" or is it a violent crime?
The cop got hit when she tried to break up a fight the 12yo girl was in.

Nope.

It's not like the 12yo girl snuck up on the cop and hit her.

She punched the cop tice when the cop contacted her about being disruptive in the school.

I suppose you had a lot of fighting discipline when you were 12 right? I am not sugarcoating anything, but why would I want to ruin some girls life because a cop that obviously wasn't fit for duty got hurt trying to break up a fight

Nothing in any of the articles i have read suggests the cop was accidentally hit with a wild punch or tryijng to break up a fight. Instead they all say the girl deliberately punched the cop, twice.

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:16:55 PM EDT

[#16]

String the girl up.

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:28:39 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Cop tasers someone, who has a heart attack and dies. Everyone says "tough shit."

Kid punches cop, cop has heart attack and dies. Everyone says "Manslaughter!"

Yep.
ETA: I think there is enough question about tasers and their use they should not be where they are on the use of force continuum. IMO, they should be up there with batons.

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:30:11 PM EDT

[#18]

I had originally heard the girl struck the officer 2-3 times in the head, the officer was dizzy, fielt nausious, went outside and collapsed. I wonder if it was in the head or chest. Not that it matters, there are a lot of juviniles that can fight like hell.

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:30:27 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IF a punch was all it took to cause a heart attack, then the cop was not long for this world and would have died at the next altercation one way or another.

I think there is a certain point in the heartbeat (PQRST, someone help me out here) where any heart is vulnerable to impact - like a kid getting hit with a baseball in the chest & dying.

Either way, the kid should be sent to juvey Sing-Sing until her 21st.

true to a point.

as much as this 12yr needs an ass whooping i am NOT willing to write off a 12yr kid to an inept juvenille legal system over what at worst is an accident. Yes she knew she was acting out but i have NO dobt she never believed in her wildest dreams this cop would die. Odds are she is going to have to live with this the rest of her life as it is.

Agreed.
The girl needs real parents, not the juvy justice system.

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:40:39 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The cop got hit when she tried to break up a fight the 12yo girl was in.

Nope.

It's not like the 12yo girl snuck up on the cop and hit her.

She punched the cop tice when the cop contacted her about being disruptive in the school.

I suppose you had a lot of fighting discipline when you were 12 right? I am not sugarcoating anything, but why would I want to ruin some girls life because a cop that obviously wasn't fit for duty got hurt trying to break up a fight

Nothing in any of the articles i have read suggests the cop was accidentally hit with a wild punch or tryijng to break up a fight. Instead they all say the girl deliberately punched the cop, twice.

I went back and read all the articles again and it looks like I was wrong. The little bitch did hit the cop in the head twice. But she is only 12 years old, which seems a little young to throw her to the wolves. If you put her in prison until she is 18 or 21, do you really think she will come out a better person?

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:45:26 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

The kid was not doing anything that would usually result in the death of someone, and was not operating any weapon or machinery that could be said was being used in a negligent manner. I can't see hard time for her, definitely time for assault, but not manslaughter. If it were anyone else than a cop this whole thing would be a non-issue.

Yeah, if she had punched her science teacher and he then died of a heart attack I'djust shrug my shoulders and say "oh well".

Posted: 12/27/2005 3:49:13 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even if you ignore the death, she is still guilty of assault and battery on a police officer. Is that an "accident"? Should decent kids have to compete for teachers time/attention with this girl?

I agree 100%. Assault charges should be filed, she should be locked up for her summer vacation and on probation until she is 18. But trying to lock this girl up until she is 18 or 21 is overkill in my opinion. She got out of line....

Why sugar coat what she did? "Got out of line" is refusing to do you homework or being disruptive in the clasroom. She committed assault and battery on a 58yo woman. If someone punches your mom or grandmother is that just "getting out of line" or is it a violent crime?
The cop got hit when she tried to break up a fight the 12yo girl was in. It's not like the 12yo girl snuck up on the cop and hit her. I suppose you had a lot of fighting discipline when you were 12 right? I am not sugarcoating anything, but why would I want to ruin some girls life because a cop that obviously wasn't fit for duty got hurt trying to break up a fight

+1

this cop DID NOT DIE FROM THE HIT.

It's just random coincidence that she was struck in the head and later died. She would have died at that exact moment anyway minus the blows to the head? If not, then the girl most certainly did cause it.

Posted: 12/27/2005 4:51:19 PM EDT

[#23]

NYC Safety Agent Dies At School

BY MICHAEL FRAZIER

A city school safety agent died Friday of an apparent heart attack after an unruly 12-year-old girl punched the officer during a Crown Heights school dance, police said.

Vivian Samuels, 58, was ejecting the girl about 5:30 p.m. from the dance at MS 390 at 1224 Park Place at the request of Principal Tyona Washington, police said.

As she was being escorted out, the girl struck Samuels at least twice in the face, causing the agent to fall to the ground. Two other agents had to help restrain the girl.

After the tussle, Samuels walked outside to get some air and experienced what appeared to be an asthma attack and collapsed, a police source said. She was pronounced dead of an apparent heart attack about 6:50 p.m. at Kings County Hospital Center in Brooklyn, police said.

"It's been a tough couple of weeks for the New York City Police Department," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said at the hospital, referring to the recent police shootings in Brooklyn and the Bronx. The NYPD oversees the school safety agents program.

Police were trying to determine Friday night whether any charges would be filed against the girl.

Kelly said Samuels' relatives, including a son, a sister and at least one brother, were by her side at the hospital.

The girl was being questioned by police late Friday. Police didn't say why the principal didn't want the girl at the dance.

Samuels joined the school safety program in August 1991.

In November 1999, safety agent Orville Williams, 25, collapsed and died after trying to break up a fight a Franklin K. Lane High School in Queens.

Freelance writers Hilary Russ and Jerome Burdi contributed to this story.

Posted: 12/27/2005 5:27:35 PM EDT

[#24]

I read 1 hour 20 minutes from the hits the woman took to her collapse and TOD. Sounds like a quick trip to the bathroom could have finished her off also.

I'm all for giving to a reforming chance. What the hell we give pedophiles 2nd and even 3rd chances under the guise of reforming the troubled person.

Posted: 12/27/2005 5:34:49 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Damn, the girl must be related to Squatdog.

+1

It had to have been a "power shot"....

Dude...that was just plain wrong.

Posted: 12/27/2005 5:49:49 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:

The kid was not doing anything that would usually result in the death of someone, and was not operating any weapon or machinery that could be said was being used in a negligent manner. I can't see hard time for her, definitely time for assault, but not manslaughter. If it were anyone else than a cop this whole thing would be a non-issue.

Yeah, if she had punched her science teacher and he then died of a heart attack I'djust shrug my shoulders and say "oh well".

If she had punched her science teacher you would not have heard of it.

Posted: 12/27/2005 6:14:12 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

The kid was not doing anything that would usually result in the death of someone, and was not operating any weapon or machinery that could be said was being used in a negligent manner. I can't see hard time for her, definitely time for assault, but not manslaughter. If it were anyone else than a cop this whole thing would be a non-issue.

Yeah, if she had punched her science teacher and he then died of a heart attack I'djust shrug my shoulders and say "oh well".

If she had punched her science teacher you would not have heard of it.

Maybe I'm from a small town, but I've yet to see an adult die in a school related incident of any kind that we didn't hear about.

Posted: 12/27/2005 6:20:03 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Cop tasers someone, who has a heart attack and dies. Everyone says "tough shit."

Kid punches cop, cop has heart attack and dies. Everyone says "Manslaughter!"

No kidding.

Are you really that ignorant that you can't understand the difference?

(It's the Christmas season otherwise I would have used more specific words , words like STUPID)

Posted: 12/27/2005 6:32:23 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:

"Fuzzy, fur-lined handcuffs so that they don't feel discomfort while handcuffed?"

I have some of those.

No really - IMO she is "involved" in the Cops death, not completely responsible. She and her parents should be punished and treated - but not to the full extent of the law. Certainly not Murder 1. She's a 12 year old kid for God's sake.

Wait, I figured out the solution, let these people take care of her!
New Parents:

Posted: 12/27/2005 6:57:38 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Holy shit, remind me not to piss that chick off.

Preteen girls are scary as all fuck. Ever hear of Nevada-Tan?

My daughter wasn't and isn't at all scary...but don't mess with her "Pre-Kung-Fu". She can hit hard now.

It's all how you raise them. She punches me instead of her school administrators.

On that page it says about Nevada-Tan, her "...favourite film, was Battle Royale...". Sheesh! An 11 y/o's favorite film is Battle Royale!?! It's an insane murder-fest of a movie. Where were her parents?

Posted: 12/27/2005 6:58:01 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
A 12 y/o girl causes a man to die, well... he needs to be 6 feet under... Good God... cuz a heart attack? Too many donuts and cups of coffee...

I often wonder if some guys here even bother to read the story before posting their reply.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg was among those to honor Vivian Samuels-Benjamin, 58, at her local Wayside Baptist Church in Bedford-Stuyvesant, where the devout woman was a volunteer usher.

Reading is Fun-duhhh-mental....

Posted: 12/27/2005 7:27:17 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Manslaughter.

Striking another person is no accident, and doing so and causing death, whether to kill was the intent or not, is manslaughter.

Kid was already causing a ruckus, too bad teachers aren't allowed to give em a swat to keep em in line. This is the result of a progressive/permissive society.

The estate of the decedent should sue the little darling's family into the stone age (whatever funds/income they have) - they created the little monster.

+1

Posted: 12/27/2005 7:38:07 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Cop tasers someone, who has a heart attack and dies. Everyone says "tough shit."

Kid punches cop, cop has heart attack and dies. Everyone says "Manslaughter!"

No kidding.

Are you really that ignorant that you can't understand the difference?

(It's the Christmas season otherwise I would have used more specific words , words like STUPID)

I was looking for trouble with that one

Posted: 12/28/2005 10:52:48 AM EDT

[#34]

The girl needs real parents, not the juvy justice system.

Wrong. The girl needs both.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - School cop dies after being punched by 12yo girl (Page 2 of 2)

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