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Posted: 12/26/2005 9:37:41 AM EDT
from:theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=2751



Japan Recruits Comfort Women during Pacific War
Imperial Japanese Army first introduced “a system of military sexual slavery” or euphemistically “comfort woman system” for its soldiers in 1932. By 1938 the system was spanned out to the entire military, which conquered and ruled much part of Asia during WWII. “The Rape of Nanking” incident led to the heinous system.

When Japanese soldiers raped Chinese women in Nanking and anti-Japanese feeling heightened Japanese military decided to set up “comfort places” or sex facilities within its military units as a way of relieving its soldiers of their pent up desire.




In 1941 when Pacific War broke out and the Japan’s war front was expanded they needed more comfort women. With the help of Japanese governor general in Seoul, Japanese military officers were on a hunt for comfort women in the entire area of the Korean Peninsula.





Japanese Military Sex Shop in Shanghai
A Japanese Army’s sex shop or “comfort place” called “Shanghai Army Recreational Center” in Shanghai, China. In each compartment (room) of this wooden facility is one comfort woman to receive one soldier, respectively. On the door is written name of the comfort woman. Other Japanese units used Chinese houses or tents for “comfort places.”


The number of Korean victims was estimated at between 80,000 and 200,000. Japanese government denied that they ran any such system until 1991 when a brave woman named Kim Hak-Soon came out and revealed the Japanese atrocities to the world. Japanese Governor General’s Office in Seoul incinerated all related documents before the closing of WWII.

A 1994 report shows that there are still hundreds of former sex slaves alive. Most of the are women of Asian countries occupied by Japan before and during the Pacific War. Among them are 160 South Koreans, 131 North Koreans, 100 Filipinos, 50 Taiwanese, 8 Indonesians, and two Malays. These numbers are only for those who revealed their real name.



There are much more victims living out there who do not want to identify their tragic past. Even after Korea’s liberation from Japan in 1945, many of the Korean victims chose to live in the Asian country where they were forced to serve sex to Japanese soldiers.



from:theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=2751

Asia-Pacific

Ex-Sex Slave Keeps Quest For Compensation

By Richard S. Ehrlich




BANGKOK, Thailand — A kamikaze suicide pilot fell in love with imprisoned "comfort woman" Lee Yong Soo, but that did nothing to stop the atrocity of her being raped by hundreds of Japanese soldiers during World War II.

Up to 200,000 females — mostly teenagers — were enslaved for rape by Japan's military in China, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore, according to London-based Amnesty International.


Regulations on How to Use Sex Shop — A group of Japanese soldiers is a poster on which regulations are written on how to use "comfort place" or sex shop within the Japanese military installations.

The human rights organization recently brought Ms. Lee and another so-called "comfort woman" to Bangkok, to emphasize the launch of Amnesty International's new report titled, "Still Waiting After 60 Years: Justice for Survivors of Japan's Military Sexual Slavery System."

Ms. Lee's one-and-a-half years as a sex slave is merely a haunting slice of Japan's various war crimes.

But Tokyo continues to shrug off international demands for official compensation to its rape victims.

"I was 15, in my home in southern Korea, when a Japanese man came behind me at night, put his hand over my mouth and kidnapped me," said Ms. Lee, now a 70-year-old South Korean, recalling her ordeal in an interview.

In the autumn of 1944, the innocent girl was taken to Pyongyang, now in North Korea, and put on a ship where she was tortured, threatened, and forced to submit.

"There were five of us girls, with 300 soldiers, on the ship and we were repeatedly raped on the journey which took maybe two months from North Korea to Taiwan," she said, speaking in Korean language.

"There was a 'comfort station' in Taiwan where I then received pilots who belonged to the kamikaze, a special suicide brigade."

One of Japanese kamikaze pilots, who repeatedly raped her in Taiwan, told Ms. Lee that she was his first love.

"That Japanese soldier gave me a Japanese nick-name, 'Toshiko.' And the kamikaze pilot taught me a song. He made up a song, because he was afraid he would die when he finally had to fly.

"It's in Japanese," Ms. Lee said, and then she softly sang the lilting tune which she never forgot.

"The song goes like this," she added, translating the Japanese into Korean, which was then rendered into English by a translator during the interview:

"The fighting planes are taking off / Taiwan is disappearing far below / Clouds appear / Nobody is saying goodbye to me / One person who can cry for me is Toshiko / We will fight in Okinawa / If I die, I will guide you to your mother / So please don't cry, because you will go back to your mother."

That shred of hope, amid their mutual doom and suffering, at least allowed Ms. Lee to believe she might survive.

"I think he is my savior. I still thank him," she said, clarifying that she felt no romance for him.

"He came to me many times. That soldier told me I was his first love."

Occasionally weeping while telling her tale, Ms. Lee said the kamikaze pilot "gave me all his soap, and other things for taking care of myself, because he said he was leaving tomorrow to die."

Ms. Lee never married.

"I returned home to Korea in May 1946, after more than one-and-a-half years" of sexual abuse.

Today, she continues to demand justice from Tokyo, despite Japan's official dismissal of any current legal responsibility for its military abusing "comfort women" during the war.

Ms. Lee and other victims of sexual slavery under the Japanese during World War II are demanding "a full package of reparations that requires rehabilitation, compensation for the victims, restoration of lost homes, property, and livelihood, and guarantee of non-repetition," said Dr. Purna Sen, Amnesty International's director for the Asia-Pacific Program.

"Before and during World War II, up to 200,000 women were sexually enslaved by the Japanese Imperial army, [some] as young as 12. They were held by the army in so-called 'comfort stations' for months, and some for many years," said Dr. Sen, who accompanied Ms. Lee in Bangkok.

"Some were shackled together for long periods of time. They were forced to have sex with 40 to 50 men a day. The women and girls came from China, Taiwan, Korea, the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Holland, East Timor and Japan.

"The 'comfort stations' were set up by the army in China, Taiwan, Borneo, the Philippines, the Pacific islands, Singapore, Malaya, Burma and Indonesia," Dr. Sen said.

"For 60 years, these women have waited for justice."

Comfort Woman Picture Gallery

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 9:45:08 AM EDT
National

Ex-sex slave narrates
"Japan Boiled Comfort Woman to Make Soup"[/
b]
Japanese Army Ran "Comfort Woman System"


Ex-Comfort Woman:
Shim Dal-Yeon was kidnapped by Japanese soldiers near her village in Chilgok County in North Gyeongsang Province. At age 12 she was put on the military truck and was taken to the Japanese military in Taiwan where she was forced to have sex with Japanese soldiers. She was so brutally abused by the soldiers that she was not able to speak later. He only wish is to find out her older sister who was also taken with her to the Japanese military.


"The Japanese killed a Korean woman and boiled her flesh in a big pot," said a former North Korean comfort woman in an interview. "They lied to us that it was beef soup and we ate it."

The 83-year-old Park Young-Shim said that the Japanese killed some of the comfort women just because they were not cooperative in serving sex to the Japanese soldiers.

South Korea's news agency YNA reported on April 27th, her case quoting a witness' account article from the April 27, 2005 edition of the ethnic Chosunshinbo (www.korea-np.co.jp/) newspaper of the pro-North Korean Association of Koreans in Japan called in Korean "Jochongryon."


Japanese Military Comfort Station in Shanghai — A Japanese Army's sex shop or "comfort station" called "Shanghai Army Recreational Center" in Shanghai, China. In each compartment (room) of this wooden facility is one comfort woman to receive one soldier, respectively. On the door is written name of the comfort woman. Other Japanese units used Chinese houses or tents for "comfort stations."


"One day Japs came and said that because we are nearly starving to death, they would treat us with beef soup," said Park. "So we ate it and they said with a big chuckle that the soup was made out of the meat of a Korean woman."

"Japs are really like animals," Park continued. "They butchered one of the comfort women who refused to serve sex for them and they boiled her flesh in a pot."


She said that she was 17 when she was taken by Japanese police in Nampo, South Pyongan Province, North Korea in 1938. She was working as a housemaid in the city.

She recounted that in March, 1938 a Japanese policeman showed up in front of her and put her on the train, taking her somewhere in China. She said that the Japanese cop said "I will introduce a good job to you." She put up a strong resistance but to no avail.


Japanese soldiers wait in line for thier turn in front of a "confrot station" in Japanese military in China during Pacific War.


Later she found that it was Nanjing in China where the Japanese took her.

Park recalled that there were many Japanese military installations. There was a "comfort station" called "Geumsuro Comfort Station" about 500 meters away from one of the Japanese military posts.

The station was a three-storey brick house and in the house each room had one bed which measured 2 by 2.5 meters.

"I was extremely shocked when I entered one of the rooms. I was wondering and worried about what's going to happen to me soon." Park remembered.

"A little while later, a Japanese soldier came in and I realized what would occur to me," I resisted with all of my strength," said Park.


Park was kicked and beaten all over her body but she resisted to the end. Eventually, the Japanese soldier drew his long sword from his waist and threatened to cut her neck.

From then on she had to deal with some 30 Japanese soldiers per day. Every time she became sick or too tired and she refused to have sex with them, she was beaten severely. She still carries some scars on her body left by the sword of Japanese soldiers.

"I became so sick and I took some opium but the pain did not go away," said Park."I tried to take my own life on several occasions but it was not even possible."

During the course of the war between Japan and China (1937-45) and later the Pacific War (1941-45) she had to move from one comfort station to another in the Japanese military installations within mainland China.


Comfort women during Pacific War



Finally, the end of the Pacific War between Japan and the US appeared to bring her freedom. With war's end Korea was liberated from Japanese colonial rule (1910-1945). Yet her following years were not met with happy or at least normal days.

She was not able to come to her hometown immediately. In the years later with the help of her Chinese friend she was able to come back to North Korea.

In the home country she had to undergo a couple of medical operations including one to remove her womb. She still suffers from a heart ailment, nervous tension along with pains all over her body.

"I still wake up in the middle of the night when I recall the past nightmare," said Park. "I cannot die before they apologize to me and other comfort women."


Japanese Army Ran "Comfort Woman System"





The Imperial Japanese Army first introduced "a system of military sexual slavery" or euphemistically "comfort woman system" for its soldiers in 1932.

By 1938 the system was spanned out to the entire military, which conquered and ruled much of Asia during WWII. "The Rape of Nanjing" incident led to the heinous system.

When Japanese soldiers raped Chinese women in Nanjing and anti-Japanese feeling heightened, the Japanese military decided to set up "comfort stations" or sex facilities within its military units as a way of relieving its soldiers of their pent up desire.

In 1941 when the Pacific War broke out and the Japan's war front was expanded they needed more comfort women. With the help of the Japanese governor general in Seoul, Japanese military officers were on a hunt for comfort women in the entire area of the Korean Peninsula.

The number of Korean victims was estimated at between 80,000 and 200,000. The Japanese government denied that they ran any such system until 1991 when a brave woman named Kim Hak-Soon came out and revealed the Japanese atrocities to the world. Japanese Governor General's Office in Seoul incinerated all related documents before the closing of WWII.

A 1994 report shows that there are still hundreds of former sex slaves alive. Most of them are women of Asian countries occupied by Japan before and during the Pacific War. Among them are 160 South Koreans, 131 North Koreans, 100 Filipinos, 50 Taiwanese, 8 Indonesians, and two Malays. These numbers are only for those who revealed their real names.

There are much more victims living out there who do not want to identify their tragic past. Even after Korea's liberation from Japan in 1945, many of the Korean victims chose to live in the Asian country where they were forced to serve sex to Japanese soldiers.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:21:36 AM EDT
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:33:10 AM EDT
I was 15, in my home in southern Korea, when a Japanese man came behind me at night, put his hand over my mouth and kidnapped me," said Ms. Lee, now a 70-year-old South Korean, recalling her ordeal in an interview.

55years ago would have been 1950.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:33:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 10:36:44 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.



Just so you are comfortable ignorance is preferable to truth.

Duh… There is big damn difference in paying for sex and systematic rape and sexual slavery. It is pretty damn shameful to equate prostitution with rape and sexual slavery.

Duh again… Yes the Soviets did many of the same things as did the Germans… notice a pattern of behavior among totalitarian states.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:51:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.



Just so you are comfortable ignorance is preferable to truth.

Duh… There is big damn difference in paying for sex and systematic rape and sexual slavery. It is pretty damn shameful to equate prostitution with rape and sexual slavery. One Word, Pimps

Duh again… Yes the Soviets did many of the same things as did the Germans… notice a pattern of behavior among totalitarian states.



OK I'll type slower so you can understand what I was saying.

1.) Rape during war is nothing new.
2.) This story is rehashed ever 6-9 months, I have seen this same topic a dozen times.
3.) It is always just cut and pasted like it is new.
4.) I was not trying to equate prostitution with sexual slavery or systematic rape. My point was that when large groups of men of any nationality gather together under stressful situations sexual activity ensues the difference is how it is addressed. Japanese, Russian, German, American Indian, Roman, Greek, etc. all used rape as a weapon of demoralization. US soldiers in WWII were court-martialed for such activity.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:01:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:


OK I'll type slower so you can understand what I was saying.

1.) Rape during war is nothing new.
2.) This story is rehashed ever 6-9 months, I have seen this same topic a dozen times.
3.) It is always just cut and pasted like it is new.
4.) I was not trying to equate prostitution with sexual slavery or systematic rape. My point was that when large groups of men of any nationality gather together under stressful situations sexual activity ensues the difference is how it is addressed. Japanese, Russian, German, American Indian, Roman, Greek, etc. all used rape as a weapon of demoralization. US soldiers in WWII were court-martialed for such activity.



Oh I understand perfectly... Sell the moral equivalency to someone else…

Oh no you not trying to equate prostitution with sexual slavery or systematic rape… you were just finding excuses to ignore it and act indignant that someone should point out this outrage.

It is shameful to try and minimize, dismiss or excuse this outrage because it might have happened somewhere else.


Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:04:07 AM EDT
In other newly breaking news:

-Water is wet.


Film at 11.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:05:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.



Just so you are comfortable ignorance is preferable to truth.

Duh… There is big damn difference in paying for sex and systematic rape and sexual slavery. It is pretty damn shameful to equate prostitution with rape and sexual slavery. One Word, Pimps

Duh again… Yes the Soviets did many of the same things as did the Germans… notice a pattern of behavior among totalitarian states.



OK I'll type slower so you can understand what I was saying.

1.) Rape during war is nothing new.
2.) This story is rehashed ever 6-9 months, I have seen this same topic a dozen times.
3.) It is always just cut and pasted like it is new.
4.) I was not trying to equate prostitution with sexual slavery or systematic rape. My point was that when large groups of men of any nationality gather together under stressful situations sexual activity ensues the difference is how it is addressed. Japanese, Russian, German, American Indian, Roman, Greek, etc. all used rape as a weapon of demoralization. US soldiers in WWII were court-martialed for such activity.



So don't click the fucking link........


Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:06:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.



+1, same shit, different day. Must suck to be Bostonterrier.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:06:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
In other newly breaking news:

-Water is wet.


Film at 11.



BS without a link...

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:08:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:


Oh I understand perfectly... Sell the moral equivalency to someone else…

Oh no you not trying to equate prostitution with sexual slavery or systematic rape… you were just finding excuses to ignore it and act indignant that someone should point out this outrage.

It is shameful to try and minimize, dismiss or excuse this outrage because it might have happened somewhere else.





Why are you so outraged? What will you do to fix this, that happened many, many years ago? Will it make anything better for the victims? Would you like to talk about your rage and anger concerning this issue?
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:12:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:


OK I'll type slower so you can understand what I was saying.

1.) Rape during war is nothing new.
2.) This story is rehashed ever 6-9 months, I have seen this same topic a dozen times.
3.) It is always just cut and pasted like it is new.
4.) I was not trying to equate prostitution with sexual slavery or systematic rape. My point was that when large groups of men of any nationality gather together under stressful situations sexual activity ensues the difference is how it is addressed. Japanese, Russian, German, American Indian, Roman, Greek, etc. all used rape as a weapon of demoralization. US soldiers in WWII were court-martialed for such activity.



Oh I understand perfectly... Sell the moral equivalency to someone else…

Oh no you not trying to equate prostitution with sexual slavery or systematic rape… you were just finding excuses to ignore it and act indignant that someone should point out this outrage.

It is shameful to try and minimize, dismiss or excuse this outrage because it might have happened somewhere else.





One final time

War = Rape the methods change but never the outcome. Clear engouh? Not making excuses for anyone nor any moral equivalences. Prostitution = Bad. Rape = Bad War = Bad things

<-------- Done with Max_Mike
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:27:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.



Would you prefer a Happy Version of History? Call it History Lite?

My rationale for posting is that there are some young members who have never heard of certain historical events. To fully understand what is going on in Asia with respect to relations between Japan and other countries, a person needs a historical perspective.

Not everyone is aware of what transpired during the 20th century.

NoHarmNoFAL-01: Got a problem with that?

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:34:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 11:39:26 AM EDT by NoHarmNoFAL-01]

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.



Would you prefer a Happy Version of History? Call it History Lite?

My rationale for posting is that there are some young members who have never heard of certain historical events. To fully understand what is going on in Asia with respect to relations between Japan and other countries, a person needs a historical perspective.

Not everyone is aware of what transpired during the 20th century.

NoHarmNoFAL-01: Got a problem with that?




Edumacation is a good thing, too bad this isn't the edumaction side of this site. See, we have a history forum here for those interested in such things. FWIW I am not the one pays for the bandwidth here so I don't really care if stuff gets posted over and over but the dupe po po might.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it!
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:49:27 AM EDT
Same thing happened in Bosnia. My basecamp was located about 1/2 mile from a school that had been turned into a Serbian run rape camp. The Serbs would often rape a woman until she was pregnant and then hold her until she would be too far along to be able to get an abortion. That way they could force a generation of woman to give birth to Serbian children - wiping out the enemys blood line - while destroying their culture - rape being a huge stigma that would prevent a woman (or single mother) from ever being "marryable".


-K
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:55:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.



Here's your sign, bud...

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:59:38 AM EDT
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:01:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 12:04:57 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Cut
Paste
Stir the pot


What is your point?
War is never pretty, Russians did the same thing just so well organized.

The US looked the other way when the soldiers paid for sex or took advantage of the "local hospitality". I don't know of any widespread rape from US Soldiers though.



Would you prefer a Happy Version of History? Call it History Lite?

My rationale for posting is that there are some young members who have never heard of certain historical events. To fully understand what is going on in Asia with respect to relations between Japan and other countries, a person needs a historical perspective.

Not everyone is aware of what transpired during the 20th century.

NoHarmNoFAL-01: Got a problem with that?




Edumacation is a good thing, too bad this isn't the edumaction side of this site. See, we have a history forum here for those interested in such things. FWIW I am not the one pays for the bandwidth here so I don't really care if stuff gets posted over and over but the dupe po po might.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it!



That is really ironic coming from you... Hoisted with your own petard.

If you don't care then why are you wasting bandwidth bitching about it. FYI you are not a mod... If they have a problem they will handle it with out help from a self-appointed Internet nanny.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:02:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



Apparently some here as well.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:03:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:
Same thing happened in Bosnia. My basecamp was located about 1/2 mile from a school that had been turned into a Serbian run rape camp. The Serbs would often rape a woman until she was pregnant and then hold her until she would be too far along to be able to get an abortion. That way they could force a generation of woman to give birth to Serbian children - wiping out the enemys blood line - while destroying their culture - rape being a huge stigma that would prevent a woman (or single mother) from ever being "marryable".


-K



Serbs weren't picky either, 10-90 was the age range. Serbs were "Christians" too.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:10:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



I could be wrong, but, I think those are the most reported stories of WWII
outside, perhaps, Pearl Harbor and, the Nazi death camps.

I think the top got blown off these stories starting about 1942.

(Granted, the Comfort Women is about the most obscure of them all.)

I know I learned about all of them in Elementary school.

The massive .gov coverup on these stories has largely failed, I think.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:16:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



Why would you think Washington not want this to get out to the masses? If their goal was to suppress this they did a pretty bad job. I could understand Tokyo but other than shielding Tokyo from China trying to bankrupt a fledgling Post-war Japanese puppet state. Washington had nothing to do with it. Washington had more to do with the extermination of the Jews than the rape of Nanking.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:16:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 12:17:55 PM EDT by DukeSnookems]

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
My rationale for posting is that there are some young members who have never heard of certain historical events. To fully understand what is going on in Asia with respect to relations between Japan and other countries, a person needs a historical perspective.



Holy shit, someone actually used the "I do it for the children" line!!!!

Say it like it is man, every week it's a post meant to stir up fear and hate, but wait, no... you do it for the children
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:19:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



There are a lot of younger people who visit this forum who are oblivious to the above.
Don't believe me? Walk onto any College Campus and conduct a Survey regarding facts about the WWII Pacific Theater. Mention Bataan, Unit 731, etc. you'll just get blank stares. And you'll hear about Anti-US diatribes concerning Japanese Americans being interned and the United States dropping a couple of Nukes on Japan.

So why is it important? Because events that are currently happening in Asia have links to what happened during WWII.

Naturally for a person such as yourself, this is obvious, because your knowlege you are able to understand reactions of South Korea and China to a Re-Armed Japan. However you are forgetting that many people do not have your knowlege set, and therefore discount the seriousness of a up and coming super power (China) and Japan's Reactions towards China, and the subsequent fallout in other Asian Countries in regards to Japan Re-Arming.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 12:25:16 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



I could be wrong, but, I think those are the most reported stories of WWII
outside, perhaps, Pearl Harbor and, the Nazi death camps.

I think the top got blown off these stories starting about 1942.

(Granted, the Comfort Women is about the most obscure of them all.)

I know I learned about all of them in Elementary school.

The massive .gov coverup on these stories has largely failed, I think.



Really... ask 100 people what Unit 731 was I doubt if 10% of the general population knows... the Rape of Nanking probably is not much better known.

Hell most high school graduates these days get NO, ZIP, NADA Pacific WWII history other than US internment camps and the atomic bombs… most of them cannot find Wisconsin on a map much less Japan or Korea. You know the history most don't.

There was without a doubt cover up of some of Japanese activities during the War, there was in particular concerning the Emperors active participation.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:23:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
My rationale for posting is that there are some young members who have never heard of certain historical events. To fully understand what is going on in Asia with respect to relations between Japan and other countries, a person needs a historical perspective.



Holy shit, someone actually used the "I do it for the children" line!!!!

Say it like it is man, every week it's a post meant to stir up fear and hate, but wait, no... you do it for the children





Absurd
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:24:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
My rationale for posting is that there are some young members who have never heard of certain historical events. To fully understand what is going on in Asia with respect to relations between Japan and other countries, a person needs a historical perspective.



Holy shit, someone actually used the "I do it for the children" line!!!!

Say it like it is man, every week it's a post meant to stir up fear and hate, but wait, no... you do it for the children



Fear and Hate? I don't think so.

www.happynews.com/
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:31:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



There are a lot of younger people who visit this forum who are oblivious to the above.
Don't believe me? Walk onto any College Campus and conduct a Survey regarding facts about the WWII Pacific Theater. Mention Bataan, Unit 731, etc. you'll just get blank stares. And you'll hear about Anti-US diatribes concerning Japanese Americans being interned and the United States dropping a couple of Nukes on Japan.

So why is it important? Because events that are currently happening in Asia have links to what happened during WWII.

Naturally for a person such as yourself, this is obvious, because your knowlege you are able to understand reactions of South Korea and China to a Re-Armed Japan. However you are forgetting that many people do not have your knowlege set, and therefore discount the seriousness of a up and coming super power (China) and Japan's Reactions towards China, and the subsequent fallout in other Asian Countries in regards to Japan Re-Arming.




The people on college campuses that don't know history 101 probably aren't going
to be interested.

Things that are happening in Asia have links to WWII?....Hold on...news break....



The peoples of Asia have a long history of bitter conflict between each other
for centuries. It's painfully shortsided to just go back to just WWII, unless you're just
trying to whip up hatred towards one side.

Why not post some sources for the study of Asian history?

Posting stories like this, which have recieved exaustive coverage, is kinda a waste of time.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:31:55 PM EDT
Some of you guys are exceptionally ignorant assholes. You have options here. A - Don't open the link. B - STFU about how it happens all the time, because that doesn't make it right. Also, some people may want to read this kind of stuff to learn a little.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:37:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



I could be wrong, but, I think those are the most reported stories of WWII
outside, perhaps, Pearl Harbor and, the Nazi death camps.

I think the top got blown off these stories starting about 1942.

(Granted, the Comfort Women is about the most obscure of them all.)

I know I learned about all of them in Elementary school.

The massive .gov coverup on these stories has largely failed, I think.



Really... ask 100 people what Unit 731 was I doubt if 10% of the general population knows... the Rape of Nanking probably is not much better known.

Hell most high school graduates these days get NO, ZIP, NADA Pacific WWII history other than US internment camps and the atomic bombs… most of them cannot find Wisconsin on a map much less Japan or Korea. You know the history most don't.

There was without a doubt cover up of some of Japanese activities during the War, there was in particular concerning the Emperors active participation.



You're certainly right about the schools not teaching this stuff. In all my years of school, kindergarten to now my second year in college, I have NEVER had a class that discussed WWII, let alone the war in the Pacific. Which is why I find this stuff interesting to read about.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:46:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:




Posting stories like this, which have recieved exaustive coverage, is kinda a waste of time.




from:www4.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-10/dnnl-ww101305.php

Wetness-defying water?

Pacific Northwest National Laboratory group discovers a paradox: hydrophobic H2O

RICHLAND, Wash.--Now you can extend that truism about oil and water to water and itself. Water and water don't always mix, either.

The textbooks say that water readily comes together with other water, open arms of hydrogen clasping oxygen attached to other OH molecules. This is the very definition of "wetness." But scientists at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory have observed a first: a single layer of water--ice grown on a platinum wafer--that gives the cold shoulder to subsequent layers of ice that come into contact with it.

"Water-surface interactions are ubiquitous in nature and play an important role in many technological applications such as catalysis and corrosion," said Greg Kimmel, staff scientist at the Department of Energy lab and lead author of a paper in the current issue (Oct. 15 advance online edition) of Physical Review Letters. "It was assumed that one end of the water molecule would bind to metal, and at the other end would be these nice hydrogen attachment points for the atoms in next layer of water."

A theory out of Cambridge University last year suggested that these attachment points, or "dangling OH's," did not exist, that instead of dangling, the OH's were drawn by the geometry of hexagonal noble-metal surfaces and clung to that.

Kimmel and his co-authors, working at the PNNL-based W.R. Wiley Environmental Molecular Sciences Laboratory, tested the theory with a technique called rare gas physisorption that enlists krypton to probe metal surfaces and water layers on those surfaces. They found that the first single layer of water, or monolayer, wetted the platinum surface as they had expected but "that subsequent layers did not wet the first layer," Kimmel said. "In other words, the first layer of water is hydrophobic."

The results jibe with an earlier Stanford University study that used X-ray adsorption to show that rather than being fixed pointing outward in the dangling position, wet and ready to receive the next water layer, the arms of a water monolayer on a metal surface are double-jointed. They swivel back toward the surface of the metal to find a place to bind. To the water molecules approaching this bent-over-backward surface, the layer has all the attractiveness of a freshly waxed car's hood.

The second layer beads up, but that's not all: Additional water's attraction to that first hydrophobic water monolayer is so weak that 50 or more ice-crystal layers can be piled atop the first until all the so-called non-wetting portions are covered--akin to "the coalescence of water drops on a waxed car in a torrential downpour," said Bruce Kay, PNNL laboratory fellow and co-author with Kimmel and PNNL colleagues Nick Petrik and Zdenek Dohnálek.

Kimmel said that self-loathing water on metal is more than a curiosity and will come as a surprise to many in the field who assumed that water films uniformly cover surfaces. Hundreds of experiments have been done on thin water films grown on metal surfaces to learn such things as how these films affect molecules in which they come into contact and what role heat, light and high-energy radiation play in such interactions

---------------------------------------------

Goonboss: Breaking News: The Universe is Not as Simple as you make it out to be.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:53:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 12:58:09 PM EDT by NoHarmNoFAL-01]

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



There are a lot of younger people who visit this forum who are oblivious to the above.
Don't believe me? Walk onto any College Campus and conduct a Survey regarding facts about the WWII Pacific Theater. Mention Bataan, Unit 731, etc. you'll just get blank stares. And you'll hear about Anti-US diatribes concerning Japanese Americans being interned and the United States dropping a couple of Nukes on Japan.

So why is it important? Because events that are currently happening in Asia have links to what happened during WWII.

Naturally for a person such as yourself, this is obvious, because your knowlege you are able to understand reactions of South Korea and China to a Re-Armed Japan. However you are forgetting that many people do not have your knowlege set, and therefore discount the seriousness of a up and coming super power (China) and Japan's Reactions towards China, and the subsequent fallout in other Asian Countries in regards to Japan Re-Arming.




I am a huge fan of history and I understand your primise but there are a few things that you need to keep in mind here.
1.) You are presuming that the youngsters want to know about history that is not covered in their classes
2.) You are presuming that they will be able to form coherant thoughts about said topic
3.) You are presuming that if the can form coherant thoughts they will actullally give time to care about it because Friends is coming on in twenty minutes.
4.) You are posting this in GD, a forum where socially relavant threads drop to the 25th page in 20 minutes and 'Poop' or 'My kid pees like a pressure washer' threads go 40 pages.

That said there is some serious American arrogance/naivety that is causing some major problems in the Middle East and Asia. As Americans we (as a nation) has an attention span of 30 min. or less. Asia and the ME has nothing but patience, they are willing to wait generations to achieve their goals. We (Americans) think that the world had changed after WWII and now that the world is e-connected we think that everything is fine and happy, little do we know that China still remembers Nanking and the various war atrocities (biological experiments, plague etc.) that the Japanese perpetrated against them. Korea is the same way they HATE Japan because of what Japan has done to Korea since Japan formed.

The thing is, the things that happened in the past will happen again. Once you learn history you won't be so shocked at how humans can be so inhumane. We are in an unprecedented civilized era currently. Even though there are small flare-ups of butchery (Rwanda, Bosnia, and a few others) we as a generation are not exposed to this level of violence. The Romans specialized in ways to kill people slowly and en masse. We think that we have progressed as a species and that we are too civilized to revert to our savage ways, if you believe that you are a fool.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:11:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 1:29:51 PM EDT by Bostonterrier97]

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



There are a lot of younger people who visit this forum who are oblivious to the above.
Don't believe me? Walk onto any College Campus and conduct a Survey regarding facts about the WWII Pacific Theater. Mention Bataan, Unit 731, etc. you'll just get blank stares. And you'll hear about Anti-US diatribes concerning Japanese Americans being interned and the United States dropping a couple of Nukes on Japan.

So why is it important? Because events that are currently happening in Asia have links to what happened during WWII.

Naturally for a person such as yourself, this is obvious, because your knowlege you are able to understand reactions of South Korea and China to a Re-Armed Japan. However you are forgetting that many people do not have your knowlege set, and therefore discount the seriousness of a up and coming super power (China) and Japan's Reactions towards China, and the subsequent fallout in other Asian Countries in regards to Japan Re-Arming.




I am a huge fan of history and I understand your primise but there are a few things that you need to keep in mind here.
1.) You are presuming that the youngsters want to know about history that is not covered in their classes
2.) You are presuming that they will be able to form coherant thoughts about said topic
3.) You are presuming that if the can for coherant thoughts they will actullally give time to care about it because Friends is coming on in twenty minutes.
4.) You are posting this in GD, a forum where socially relavant threads drop to the 25th page in 20 minutes and 'Poop' or 'My kid pees like a pressure washer' threads go 40 pages.

That said there is some serious American arrogance/naivety that is causing some major problems in the Middle East and Asia. As Americans we (as a nation) has an attention span of 30 min. or less. Asia and the ME has nothing but patience, they are willing to wait generations to achieve their goals. We (Americans) think that the world had changed after WWII and now that the world is e-connected we think that everything is fine and happy, little do we know that China still remembers Nanking and the various war atrocities (biological experiments, plague etc.) that the Japanese perpetrated against them. Korea is the same way they HATE Japan because of what Japan has done to Korea since Japan formed.

The thing is, the things that happened in the past will happen again. Once you learn history you won't be so shocked at how humans can be so inhumane. We are in an unprecedented civilized era currently. Even though there are small flare-ups of butchery (Rwanda, Bosnia, and a few others) we as a generation are not exposed to this level of violence. The Romans specialized in ways to kill people slowly and en masse. We think that we have progressed as a species and that we are too civilized to revert to our savage ways, if you believe that you are a fool.




Thank you for your very intelligent Post. I agree with many of your points.

Let me explain something about myself, I am particularly interested in current events in Asia. Because my Wife is from Taiwan.
My Father in Law experienced first hand of life in Mainland China, underneath the Japanese Occupation Forces, and later on, the Peoples Liberation Army, before fleeing to Taiwan.
As an Aside note: My wife's grandparents were beaten, publically denounced and executed by the Peoples Liberation Army.

I have had many interesting conversations with my Father in Law listening to his personal experiences of living in China from 1930's - 1949.

It is true that I am making some assumptions about people on this forum in their interest in Historical Events and their relation to Current Events. However I would like to point out that you are making many of the same set of assumptions, but oriented in a different manner with respect to our fellow Arfcommers.

Yes, I believe that most of the people who read and post here can think coherently.
Yes I do believe that most of the people here care more deeply about current events and history than you [believe they] do.
I also believe that most of the members in this forum are intelligent, many of them well informed, though some are not. However I do not make the mistake of believing that a lack of knowlege is equivalent to a lack of intelligence.

Perhaps I am an Optimist.

But then I ask you, if you have a partially filled glass of water sitting in front of you: is it half empty or half full. (I prefer to think of terms of the latter).



Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:21:51 PM EDT
As a Korean, I have special thoughts on this topic and its easy to brew the anger to new heights. But at the same time, time has passed and most of the Japanese that did this to my people are dead.

My grandparents were farmers in a small village. The Japanese came and took everything including my grandfather for labor. He died in the Phillipines, probably killed by Americans that didnt care about the difference.

My grandmother and family were starved but otherwise she didnt mention anything else. She was pregnant with my Dad so they probably left her alone. But they had all their food and possessions taken.

She hated the Japanese with a passion and even my Dad until his dying days would not buy a Japanese car. German cars were OK, go figure. But she died still pissed off about the WW II.

Today, the Japanese are hoping all the comfort women will die off. They are legally challenging all the lawsuits with delaying tactics hoping that these old women would give in. They underestimate Korean stubborness.



Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:21:57 PM EDT
Big difference between the sins of the Japanese army and any other army in WWII - The Japanese still refuse to acknowledge their crimes. Germany has done about 50 years of mea culpa, but Japan still doesn't admit what it inflicted on the rest of the Pacific. They deserve to have it shoved in their face until they do.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:29:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Big difference between the sins of the Japanese army and any other army in WWII - The Japanese still refuse to acknowledge their crimes. Germany has done about 50 years of mea culpa, but Japan still doesn't admit what it inflicted on the rest of the Pacific. They deserve to have it shoved in their face until they do.


Whats interesting is that the new generation of Japanese dont even KNOW that these things happened. Their history books have been whitewashed with anything remotely resembling warcrimes or atrocities.

But reality dictates that things change. And the Japanese will be one of our closest allies with the Koreans in Asia.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:35:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Big difference between the sins of the Japanese army and any other army in WWII - The Japanese still refuse to acknowledge their crimes. Germany has done about 50 years of mea culpa, but Japan still doesn't admit what it inflicted on the rest of the Pacific. They deserve to have it shoved in their face until they do.


Whats interesting is that the new generation of Japanese dont even KNOW that these things happened. Their history books have been whitewashed with anything remotely resembling warcrimes or atrocities.

But reality dictates that things change. And the Japanese will be one of our closest allies with the Koreans in Asia.



I agree with you that Japan will become a closer Ally. It is in their own self interest to do so.
But I think that Animosity within Korea may increase for a while, and that Korean may actually align itself closer to China for a period of time.


Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



There are a lot of younger people who visit this forum who are oblivious to the above.
Don't believe me? Walk onto any College Campus and conduct a Survey regarding facts about the WWII Pacific Theater. Mention Bataan, Unit 731, etc. you'll just get blank stares. And you'll hear about Anti-US diatribes concerning Japanese Americans being interned and the United States dropping a couple of Nukes on Japan.

So why is it important? Because events that are currently happening in Asia have links to what happened during WWII.

Naturally for a person such as yourself, this is obvious, because your knowlege you are able to understand reactions of South Korea and China to a Re-Armed Japan. However you are forgetting that many people do not have your knowlege set, and therefore discount the seriousness of a up and coming super power (China) and Japan's Reactions towards China, and the subsequent fallout in other Asian Countries in regards to Japan Re-Arming.




I am a huge fan of history and I understand your primise but there are a few things that you need to keep in mind here.
1.) You are presuming that the youngsters want to know about history that is not covered in their classes
2.) You are presuming that they will be able to form coherant thoughts about said topic
3.) You are presuming that if the can for coherant thoughts they will actullally give time to care about it because Friends is coming on in twenty minutes.
4.) You are posting this in GD, a forum where socially relavant threads drop to the 25th page in 20 minutes and 'Poop' or 'My kid pees like a pressure washer' threads go 40 pages.

That said there is some serious American arrogance/naivety that is causing some major problems in the Middle East and Asia. As Americans we (as a nation) has an attention span of 30 min. or less. Asia and the ME has nothing but patience, they are willing to wait generations to achieve their goals. We (Americans) think that the world had changed after WWII and now that the world is e-connected we think that everything is fine and happy, little do we know that China still remembers Nanking and the various war atrocities (biological experiments, plague etc.) that the Japanese perpetrated against them. Korea is the same way they HATE Japan because of what Japan has done to Korea since Japan formed.

The thing is, the things that happened in the past will happen again. Once you learn history you won't be so shocked at how humans can be so inhumane. We are in an unprecedented civilized era currently. Even though there are small flare-ups of butchery (Rwanda, Bosnia, and a few others) we as a generation are not exposed to this level of violence. The Romans specialized in ways to kill people slowly and en masse. We think that we have progressed as a species and that we are too civilized to revert to our savage ways, if you believe that you are a fool.




Thank you for your very intelligent Post. I agree with many of your points.

Let me explain something about myself, I am particularly interested in current events in Asia. Because my Wife is from Taiwan.
My Father in Law experienced first hand of life in Mainland China, underneath the Japanese Occupation Forces, and later on, the Peoples Liberation Army, before fleeing to Taiwan.
As an Aside note: My wife's grandparents were beaten, publically denounced and executed by the Peoples Liberation Army.

I have had many interesting conversations with my Father in Law listening to his personal experiences of living in China from 1930's - 1949.

It is true that I am making some assumptions about people on this forum in their interest in Historical Events and their relation to Current Events. However I would like to point out that you are making many of the same set of assumptions, but oriented in a different manner with respect to our fellow Arfcommers.

Yes, I believe that most of the people who read and post here can think coherently.
Yes I do believe that most of the people here care more deeply about current events and history than you do.
I also believe that most of the members in this forum are intelligent, many of them well informed, though some are not. However I do not make the mistake of believing that a lack of knowlege is equivalent to a lack of intelligence.

Perhaps I am an Optimist.

But then I ask you, if you have a partially filled glass of water sitting in front of you: is it half empty or half full. (I prefer to think of terms of the latter).






I find that most people don't want their illusions shattered. They prefer to ignore that they live in a very violent world that has always been ruled by the aggressive use of force and always will be. They don’t want scores kept in little league because they don’t want the losers to feel bad while taking away the thrill of victory. It is all about avoiding conflict and keeping the peace at all costs, no matter what you have to give up. Americans are spoiled and naive because they think problems can be talked out and all conflict can be avoided if things are just resolved civilly. Go to the nearest slum and see how problems are resolved, violence no doubt. I have faith in my fellow man to be exactly as I have described, every now and then there is some glimmer of hope for humans but as a whole we are a quite unrefined and rough bunch.

As to the ARFCOMers they are a special bunch, they can talk about poo and then turn around and post rather intelligently in other posts. The problem is some of the folks in GD are not that interested in history and don’t care. The history forum here is where intelligent conversations are had about topics like this one. It is too bad that there is so little traffic there.

FWIW
The Chinese feel that the last 1000 years are just an anomaly and the western cultures will eventually fall apart and then they will be able to step back in and take charge. They just recently in the last 10 years started accelerating their plan a bit and our arming Japan is a rather poorly concealed thumb to the nose to China. Our agreement to defend Taiwan has guaranteed our involvement in a conflict with China or we could just let them have it and not honor our agreement and lose face with our other alies.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:41:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
Korean may actually align itself closer to China for a period of time.



No way. You forget the last invaders of Korea were not the Japanese but the Chinese. There is huge animosity that goes back thousands of years against both countries.

But Japan's economic might is what Korea wants to emulate and had done so. Its in their best interest to side with the west.

You are also forgeting NK that is basically supported by the Chinese. There is no way on earth the Koreans will side with any Chinese.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:48:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 1:49:43 PM EDT by NoHarmNoFAL-01]

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Big difference between the sins of the Japanese army and any other army in WWII - The Japanese still refuse to acknowledge their crimes. Germany has done about 50 years of mea culpa, but Japan still doesn't admit what it inflicted on the rest of the Pacific. They deserve to have it shoved in their face until they do.


Whats interesting is that the new generation of Japanese dont even KNOW that these things happened. Their history books have been whitewashed with anything remotely resembling warcrimes or atrocities.

But reality dictates that things change. And the Japanese will be one of our closest allies with the Koreans in Asia.



I agree with you that Japan will become a closer Ally. It is in their own self interest to do so.
But I think that Animosity within Korea may increase for a while, and that Korean may actually align itself closer to China for a period of time.




From what I have seen about Korea, with the Iraq war it is not front page news, is that the US is actually not taking a major role but is involved in an overall management position. S. Korea knows they are a mere speed bump for China and will stick to the US like glue. Walking away from the Six-Party talks and forcing China to deal with KJI was brilliant. It forces all parties to play their cards face up. If China is interested in peace they will act if they do nothing then you know where they stand, KJI is backed into a corner and can't do anything to tick off China and it makes S. Korea and Japan feel important. Unfortunately all the other countries involved are just pawns because this is just a chess game between the big boys on the block.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:49:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



I could be wrong, but, I think those are the most reported stories of WWII
outside, perhaps, Pearl Harbor and, the Nazi death camps.

I think the top got blown off these stories starting about 1942.

(Granted, the Comfort Women is about the most obscure of them all.)

I know I learned about all of them in Elementary school.

The massive .gov coverup on these stories has largely failed, I think.



Really... ask 100 people what Unit 731 was I doubt if 10% of the general population knows... the Rape of Nanking probably is not much better known.

Hell most high school graduates these days get NO, ZIP, NADA Pacific WWII history other than US internment camps and the atomic bombs… most of them cannot find Wisconsin on a map much less Japan or Korea. You know the history most don't.

There was without a doubt cover up of some of Japanese activities during the War, there was in particular concerning the Emperors active participation.


Google "Unit 731" and be prepared to learn about some of the most barbaric acts ever committed by one group of civilized people against their fellow mankind. Mind numbing, incredible, horrific barbarity, and all pretty much ignored completely by the history books.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:54:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By geegee:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



I could be wrong, but, I think those are the most reported stories of WWII
outside, perhaps, Pearl Harbor and, the Nazi death camps.

I think the top got blown off these stories starting about 1942.

(Granted, the Comfort Women is about the most obscure of them all.)

I know I learned about all of them in Elementary school.

The massive .gov coverup on these stories has largely failed, I think.



Really... ask 100 people what Unit 731 was I doubt if 10% of the general population knows... the Rape of Nanking probably is not much better known.

Hell most high school graduates these days get NO, ZIP, NADA Pacific WWII history other than US internment camps and the atomic bombs… most of them cannot find Wisconsin on a map much less Japan or Korea. You know the history most don't.

There was without a doubt cover up of some of Japanese activities during the War, there was in particular concerning the Emperors active participation.


Google "Unit 731" and be prepared to learn about some of the most barbaric acts ever committed by one group of civilized people against their fellow mankind. Mind numbing, incredible, horrific barbarity, and all pretty much ignored completely by the history books.



Yes but the information gathered by the Japanese and Germans in their human experiments are used by us all the time. The first thing that was saved was the data from the camps not the prisoners. Reality dictates you have to save something useful and of value. They did barbaric experiments that will never be replicated again.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:55:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By geegee:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



I could be wrong, but, I think those are the most reported stories of WWII
outside, perhaps, Pearl Harbor and, the Nazi death camps.

I think the top got blown off these stories starting about 1942.

(Granted, the Comfort Women is about the most obscure of them all.)

I know I learned about all of them in Elementary school.

The massive .gov coverup on these stories has largely failed, I think.



Really... ask 100 people what Unit 731 was I doubt if 10% of the general population knows... the Rape of Nanking probably is not much better known.

Hell most high school graduates these days get NO, ZIP, NADA Pacific WWII history other than US internment camps and the atomic bombs… most of them cannot find Wisconsin on a map much less Japan or Korea. You know the history most don't.

There was without a doubt cover up of some of Japanese activities during the War, there was in particular concerning the Emperors active participation.


Google "Unit 731" and be prepared to learn about some of the most barbaric acts ever committed by one group of civilized people against their fellow mankind. Mind numbing, incredible, horrific barbarity, and all pretty much ignored completely by the history books.



Wrong, these events are ignored by US public schools and liberal college Profs. Watch The History Channel, this stuff get covered about ever six months. Nearly all WWII Pacific Theater books at least address this issue and some specifically go into great depth about it. Just kbecause it is not taught in schools does not mean it can not be learned. Besides if it were ignored by the history books how do you think you found it on Google.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:55:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Big difference between the sins of the Japanese army and any other army in WWII - The Japanese still refuse to acknowledge their crimes. Germany has done about 50 years of mea culpa, but Japan still doesn't admit what it inflicted on the rest of the Pacific. They deserve to have it shoved in their face until they do.

I agree.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:56:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:

FWIW
The Chinese feel that the last 1000 years are just an anomaly and the western cultures will eventually fall apart and then they will be able to step back in and take charge. They just recently in the last 10 years started accelerating their plan a bit and our arming Japan is a rather poorly concealed thumb to the nose to China. Our agreement to defend Taiwan has guaranteed our involvement in a conflict with China or we could just let them have it and not honor our agreement and lose face with our other alies.



Absolutely true.

China's own National Interests dictate that they obtain Taiwan at all costs. It is in Japan's National Interests to have an Independent Taiwan. If the United States fails to defend Taiwan from Chinese Aggression, then the United States will lose almost all credibility, and there will be a significant arms race that will include many countries starting up Nuclear Weapons Programs.

Additionally what is transpiring now in China, is that much of the population believes in a sort of Manifest Destiny, that China will regain its rightful place as the world's pre-eminent power. Many Chinese believe that their country has been humiliated (and with good reason) by the West.
Feelings of violation by the Japanese.

The CCCP are betting their own legitimacy that there will be no slow down in economic growth, and that any social unrest should be directed outwards, and the CCCP encourages feelings of victimization



Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:01:14 PM EDT
The Chinese fail to realize that communism is an abberation in human behavior. Recent history supports this fact. The mess that it will leave when it finally collapeses is what will be interesting.

But China is slowing becoming a capitalist country like it has been for thousands of years. Communism is the abberation not the other way around.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:02:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:

Originally Posted By geegee:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Shhhh...don't mention this too loudly. The folks in Tokyo and Washington want to keep it under wraps like the Rape of Nanking, Hong Kong Massacre, the Bataan Death March, the POW camps, and most of all, ANY truth about Unit 731.



I could be wrong, but, I think those are the most reported stories of WWII
outside, perhaps, Pearl Harbor and, the Nazi death camps.

I think the top got blown off these stories starting about 1942.

(Granted, the Comfort Women is about the most obscure of them all.)

I know I learned about all of them in Elementary school.

The massive .gov coverup on these stories has largely failed, I think.



Really... ask 100 people what Unit 731 was I doubt if 10% of the general population knows... the Rape of Nanking probably is not much better known.

Hell most high school graduates these days get NO, ZIP, NADA Pacific WWII history other than US internment camps and the atomic bombs… most of them cannot find Wisconsin on a map much less Japan or Korea. You know the history most don't.

There was without a doubt cover up of some of Japanese activities during the War, there was in particular concerning the Emperors active participation.


Google "Unit 731" and be prepared to learn about some of the most barbaric acts ever committed by one group of civilized people against their fellow mankind. Mind numbing, incredible, horrific barbarity, and all pretty much ignored completely by the history books.



Wrong, these events are ignored by US public schools and liberal college Profs. Watch The History Channel, this stuff get covered about ever six months. Nearly all WWII Pacific Theater books at least address this issue and some specifically go into great depth about it. Just kbecause it is not taught in schools does not mean it can not be learned. Besides if it were ignored by the history books how do you think you found it on Google.



+1.

When I still had my cable on, I used to hear about it like at LEAST every 6 months, if not
more.

All people need to do is use that ol' capacity for independant thought.

Google's a nice little tool.

It's a question of getting most people to care, and, they just don't.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:15:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
Korean may actually align itself closer to China for a period of time.



No way. You forget the last invaders of Korea were not the Japanese but the Chinese. There is huge animosity that goes back thousands of years against both countries.

But Japan's economic might is what Korea wants to emulate and had done so. Its in their best interest to side with the west.

You are also forgeting NK that is basically supported by the Chinese. There is no way on earth the Koreans will side with any Chinese.




I am not so sure..


Queen Min



First Sino Japanese War

Followed later by Japan's Annexation of Korea

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:19:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:
I was 15, in my home in southern Korea, when a Japanese man came behind me at night, put his hand over my mouth and kidnapped me," said Ms. Lee, now a 70-year-old South Korean, recalling her ordeal in an interview.

55years ago would have been 1950.



If the interview was this year...
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 4:19:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 4:20:34 PM EDT by LWilde]
Fact: The Japanese Empire committed some of the most hideous crimes against humanity that this planet has ever seen. Granted, they didn't do it with the near perfect precision that the fucking Nazis did but theirs' was more intense and casual in many ways.

The Rape of Nanking was a bloodletting of astronomical proportions. In a couple of months, the Japanese Army savagely beheaded, bayonetted, shot and otherwise murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Chinese, virtually all of whom were non-combatants in and around Nanking. If you haven't studied some of the resource material...you simply can't get a grasp of the savagery of the Japanese troops. One of the Imperial Army officers' favorite games was to tie Chinese up to stakes and practice with their swords. The goal was to cleave a man in half with one stroke.

When the Brits surrendered on Hong Kong, Japanese troops charged into the hospitals and butchered the wounded.

About 1/2 of the Americans captured on Wake were killed by shooting or beheading. One Japanese commander liked liver so he ate those of his dead American POWs.

On New Guinea and Rabaul, when the Americans and Aussies would bomb the Japs, any fliers who were shot down stood a good chance of being killed. Subsequent attacks so enraged their captors that the Japanese often simply took the imprisoned fliers out and beheaded them...for the attack they had suffered at the hands of the Allied fliers' mates.

When MacArthur's troops were about to take Manila, the Japanese set fire to the Old City and incinerated thousands of innocent Filipino non-combatants.

Japanese POW camps: Nuff said.

Unit 731 was a chem-bio war testing lab in Manchuria. The Japs tested WMD technologies on live humans, including Chinese, Brits, Soviets, and even a few Americans. The atrocities committed there rivalled those of the evil Dr. Mengele for savagery and brutality. I am deeply saddened to have the knowledge that our government permitted the beasts that worked there to slide just to get their hands on the research data because of the Cold War. I would have executed every one of those monsters.

There is MUCH more...but I'm tired of writing. For you non-believers, just visit a good library or surf a bit. The info is out there...except for the Japanese. They STILL refuse to fully acknowledge their actions and take full responsility for their savagery.
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