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Posted: 12/25/2005 7:45:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 1:09:57 PM EDT by CavVet]
I had the old big one in my newer PC to use for data storage. It went TU, I lost everything. I tried Easy Recovery, Recover my Files.......nothing.

Fine.

Im going to rip it out and put a new one in to store pictures, music and crap on. What are the limits of my system??



AMD Athlon XP 2400+
2Ghz, 496 RAM

XP SP2



I remember there being limitations, based on the system as to what kind of hard drives will work in it, I just dont know anything about that stuff. If I did I could probaby recover my old one.


Thanks!



Tha­nks!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:49:12 PM EDT
Nothing you've posted gives any definitive answer.

That being said, "master/slave" relationships only really exist in IDE drives, so any EIDE/ATA drive should work fine. Just make sure both drives are on cable select jumper settings (with the master at the end of the cable) or explicitly set one to master and one to slave.

SATA is NOT the same thing as ATA. SATA drives use different connectors and don't really do the whole master/slave thing AFAIK.

We won't even go into SCSI.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:49:49 PM EDT
Did you say 'SLAVE' drive? OMG... how insensitive!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:52:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
Nothing you've posted gives any definitive answer.

That being said, "master/slave" relationships only really exist in IDE drives, so any EIDE/ATA drive should work fine. Just make sure both drives are on cable select jumper settings (with the master at the end of the cable) or explicitly set one to master and one to slave.

SATA is NOT the same thing as ATA. SATA drives use different connectors and don't really do the whole master/slave thing AFAIK.

We won't even go into SCSI.



Ok, maybe to you computer guys I used the wrong word. Storage drive?

I just kinda connect them and go. They both go on that cable thingy and to the power. Maybe I dont know what the hell I did, thats why it doesnt work now. But it worked two computers in a row for quite a few years.



Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:52:31 PM EDT
I know it will recognize at least a 200 gig with those specs. The service pack 2 removes restrictions over 120 gig IIRC.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:53:40 PM EDT
I assume it's custom or shop built? With XP, about any drive in the 40 to 80 Gig range will work. I wouldn't go bigger unless you have a massive amount of photos or videdos. I have had good luck with Seagate drives, replaced two factory drives with Seagates by my un-educated self and no issues.

GarryOwen!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:53:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mimikamimi:
I know it will recognize at least a 200 gig with those specs. The service pack 2 removes restrictions over 120 gig IIRC.





More than enough! Thanks!

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:55:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 7:55:26 PM EDT by CavVet]

Originally Posted By AH64D-Guy:
I assume it's custom or shop built?



Nope, I bought it from Fry's. In the box, PC only $200.



GarryOwen!


Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:57:35 PM EDT
My daughter has a desktop computer with 1 120GB C: drive, D:250GB slave using Wind XP SP1.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:08:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 8:08:31 PM EDT by stickfigure]
Buy an external HD and you can go as high as 1.5 tera-bytes. That should do you for about ever, with all the storage space you'll ever need.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:09:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Buy an external HD and you can go as high as 1.5 tera-bytes. That should do you for about ever, with all the storage space you'll ever need.



And what happens when that goes TU??

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:19:17 PM EDT
Depends on your motherboard, more specifically your bios. Most PATA should work and probably SATA depending on chipset and if the mobo mfg decided to put SATA headers on it if it is a newer board. If you can tell me the bios revision, make, model, and board revision, I can tell you how big of a HDD it can recognise and what type drives will work. But you might want to PM me, cause I'll probably never see this thread again otherwise.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:19:39 PM EDT
If you have that mindset, everything you do is a waste of time, nothing is perfect. You just have to do the best you can with the technology you ahve availible now.

The beauty of an external is that you can unplug it and keep it seperate from your main PC. And 1.5 TB is huge! I think the Library of Congress is 3.5TB or so in size, so you do the math.

I have a smaller 200GB external HD that I have everything I want backed up on. If I need to leave for a hurricane, I take it or I can take it over to a friends house and have him throw stuff on to it that I want.

It is a lot better than having an extra HD inside of your tower that is constantly plugged in and running. Also as long as I keep it about a month or so current I won't lose much if my main system tanks.

I am going to buy probably another 500BG or 1TB sized external to put every picture my family owns. I'm not going to throw them away or anything just they will exist electronically as well.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:21:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Buy an external HD and you can go as high as 1.5 tera-bytes. That should do you for about ever, with all the storage space you'll ever need.



And what happens when that goes TU??




That's why you buy two,and have redundant copies of information.

If I can remember how the saying goes... If your data isn't backed up, you don't have any data.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:23:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Buy an external HD and you can go as high as 1.5 tera-bytes. That should do you for about ever, with all the storage space you'll ever need.



And what happens when that goes TU??




If it's the drive that goes, any drive, your screwed unless backed up regularly. If it's the computer and not the external drive, no problemas, hook up to new system and your good to go.

I put a new big ("too big") in an older (300 mhz) system and it came with the software to make it work.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:26:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Morning_Wood:
Depends on your motherboard, more specifically your bios. Most PATA should work and probably SATA depending on chipset and if the mobo mfg decided to put SATA headers on it if it is a newer board. If you can tell me the bios revision, make, model, and board revision, I can tell you how big of a HDD it can recognise and what type drives will work. But you might want to PM me, cause I'll probably never see this thread again otherwise.




I wish I knew what the hell you just said to me.

IM outbound.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:46:18 PM EDT
Hitachi makes a 500gb drive now. That big enough? And 250gb are barely over $100.

You might need to do the "EnableBigLba" registry key, or run a program to do it for you to get a drive over 137gb to work correctly. Don't use XP very much.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:58:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 8:59:31 PM EDT by No-Worries]

Limit is currently 137 gigabytes after which you'll have to load a special driver to see the rest of any larger drives. 32 bit windows operating systems have an inherent limit of 2.2 terabytes.

http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/hard_drive_size_barriers.htm
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:01:34 PM EDT
seagate just came out with 500gb.

data storage = seagate

hi performance = western digital

(in the ide/sata market, anyways)
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:13:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By mimikamimi:
I know it will recognize at least a 200 gig with those specs. The service pack 2 removes restrictions over 120 gig IIRC.





More than enough! Thanks!




Except that he doesn't know that for sure. Certain motherboards can have restrictions, though that's rarely a factor anymore.

In any case just buy an EIDE drive and plug it in.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:16:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 9:19:23 PM EDT by CavVet]

Originally Posted By iroc409:
seagate just came out with 500gb.

data storage = seagate

hi performance = western digital

(in the ide/sata market, anyways)





So I would want storage, as in performance you mean like games or whatever, right??


Tiger Direct, Seagate 250, $69.99 after rebate.



Thanks guys!



Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:19:28 PM EDT

No matter how big it is you can always partition it into several drives, E,F,G,H,I,J,K, and so on.

100 gigs is a nice even partition size.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:23:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By iroc409:
seagate just came out with 500gb.

data storage = seagate

hi performance = western digital

(in the ide/sata market, anyways)





So I would want storage, as in performance you mean like games or whatever, right??


Tiger Direct, Seagate 250, $69.99 after rebate.



Thanks guys!






in short, if you're just looking for an add-on drive to store data, go seagate.

while i have personally had good luck with hard drives, through work and others' experience generally relates as the following.

it seems, for hi-performance applications, western digital seems to have a slight edge in speed.

seagate makes very reliable data storage. generally suitable for data archiving, servers, and such. you still need to backup your data, but you're less likely to need it with seagate.

an ideal setup would be a pair of raid western digital raptor drives for operating system and programs, and a seagate drive for your data storage. fast & reliable.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:26:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 9:36:04 PM EDT by Morning_Wood]
PM inbound with a bit more detail and yes, you could always partition or overlay it, but it looks like you won't have too. Good luck widit!

www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?MenuID=24&LanID=0&DetailID=422&DetailName=Specification
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:36:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Morning_Wood:
PM inbound with a bit more detail. Good luck widit!

www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?MenuID=24&LanID=0&DetailID=422&DetailName=Specification







My personal newest bestest computer guru just gave me the green light for 400GB





As if I would know what to do with that.

But its nice to know I can get whatever I want, and now I know which brand on top of that.

Thanks guys you are the best. Now break out those concrete questions so I can pay you back!






Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:42:04 PM EDT

Dr. Evil: A computer with an internal memory of ten.....megabytes.... muwahahahaha!!!

Number Two: Sir...they stopped using that size hard drive years ago...

Dr. Evil: Then, what's a good number?

Number Two: Think gigabytes, Sir...

Dr. Evil: Very well... ten Gigabytes...........muwahahahaha!!!




Nowdays, I don't know of a practical limit to hard drive size... that is other than your wallet!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:42:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 9:45:41 PM EDT by Morning_Wood]
Greenlight? I'm just repeating what was on the ECS website. If you are going to push the envelope. Don't try it with an ECS, but you should be fine with any reasonably sized Parallel ATA hard drive without jumping through many hoops.

Also, your last PM fail to open and was lost without my reading it. I only get 1 shot at PM's cause i'm a cheap ol' bastard.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:44:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By mimikamimi:
I know it will recognize at least a 200 gig with those specs. The service pack 2 removes restrictions over 120 gig IIRC.





More than enough! Thanks!




Except that he doesn't know that for sure. Certain motherboards can have restrictions, though that's rarely a factor anymore.


Actually, if hie bios recognizes a 2 gig CPU , he is good to go.

In any case just buy an EIDE drive and plug it in.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:54:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Morning_Wood:

Also, your last PM fail to open and was lost without my reading it. I only get 1 shot at PM's cause i'm a cheap ol' bastard.




Click on the trash can, its in there.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 10:03:35 PM EDT
One word, RAID. Keeping one copy of your stored data is very dumb! Running a RAID-1 array (two drives, mirrors of each other) will keep your butt pain-free if a drive fails; just replace the bad drive with an identical one and you're back to normal.


How much do you want to spend? SATA is the new shit, but that will probably require new hardware for you. Once again, I highly recommend RAID for any kind of data storage. Also, don't forget an adequate cooling solution, heat is the #1 killer of hardware.

Which drives: I'd recommend two 300-gig'ers right now (300GB is the most cost-effective solution right now, in terms of cents-per-gigabyte).

I HIGHLY recommend going to www.pricewatch.com ,find the cheapest price online for the hardware you want - knocks froogle's socks off for computer hardware (also has dealer ratings).

As an aside,
If software-based recovery is hopeless, the drive's circuit board, motor, or I/O head is fried (combo is unlikely). If you're good with your hands (and I mean really good and dextrous), you can get another identical drive and move the old platters over into the new drive.
If the data is important to you and you've never done this yourself, there are a number of companies which can do this for you.
I'd only recommend that DIY solution if you're both really good with your hands, there's NOTHING of value on the drive (assuming you haven't done this procedure before), and have money to burn on a new drive which at the end of the day you may have to throw away both drive.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 10:10:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mimikamimi:

Actually, if hie bios recognizes a 2 gig CPU , he is good to go.




Is that a happy accident of chipsets or is there a particular reason for that?

I have a habit of never assuming anything regarding MB and BIOS capabilities. It's gotten me in trouble before.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 10:13:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:
One word, RAID. Keeping one copy of your stored data is very dumb! Running a RAID-1 array (two drives, mirrors of each other) will keep your butt pain-free if a drive fails; just replace the bad drive with an identical one and you're back to normal.


How much do you want to spend? SATA is the new shit, but that will probably require new hardware for you. Once again, I highly recommend RAID for any kind of data storage. Also, don't forget an adequate cooling solution, heat is the #1 killer of hardware.

Which drives: I'd recommend two 300-gig'ers right now (300GB is the most cost-effective solution right now, in terms of cents-per-gigabyte).

I HIGHLY recommend going to www.pricewatch.com ,find the cheapest price online for the hardware you want - knocks froogle's socks off for computer hardware (also has dealer ratings).




Noted & thanks!


As an aside,
If software-based recovery is hopeless, the drive's circuit board, motor, or I/O head is fried (combo is unlikely). If you're good with your hands (and I mean really good and dextrous), you can get another identical drive and move the old platters over into the new drive.
If the data is important to you and you've never done this yourself, there are a number of companies which can do this for you.
I'd only recommend that DIY solution if you're both really good with your hands, there's NOTHING of value on the drive (assuming you haven't done this procedure before), and have money to burn on a new drive which at the end of the day you may have to throw away both drive.






I will mull this over, I have a hardware buddy that may be of some help. Thanks!

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 10:18:56 PM EDT
Weird, I was trying another recovery program, no luck. I was in one of the Control panel screens, it shows the D drive as "Offline".

I went to disk defragment program, it doesnt even show up.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:12:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 11:25:19 PM EDT by Andreuha]
Could be the circuit board, if that's the case, it's an easy fix. When the machine boots, go into setup (del, F1 or F2, depending on your machine), and look at the hard-drive. It should be there, the name should be a model/serial number, and the numbers should be concise; if it's all garbled up, it's probably the circuit-board. If that's the case, try the OEM for a replacement board (make sure they send not only the right model, but the right firmware!), it should be fairly cheap. If that doesn't work, make sure SMART is enabled, then check the RPM's that the drive is operating at (I don't even remember if you can do this in the BIOS, I haven't had to do that in so long!), if the board is good and the RPM's are solid, it's probably the head or (if you're really lucky!) the connection between the head and the board.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:
One word, RAID. Keeping one copy of your stored data is very dumb! Running a RAID-1 array (two drives, mirrors of each other) will keep your butt pain-free if a drive fails; just replace the bad drive with an identical one and you're back to normal.


How much do you want to spend? SATA is the new shit, but that will probably require new hardware for you. Once again, I highly recommend RAID for any kind of data storage. Also, don't forget an adequate cooling solution, heat is the #1 killer of hardware.

Which drives: I'd recommend two 300-gig'ers right now (300GB is the most cost-effective solution right now, in terms of cents-per-gigabyte).

I HIGHLY recommend going to www.pricewatch.com ,find the cheapest price online for the hardware you want - knocks froogle's socks off for computer hardware (also has dealer ratings).

As an aside,
If software-based recovery is hopeless, the drive's circuit board, motor, or I/O head is fried (combo is unlikely). If you're good with your hands (and I mean really good and dextrous), you can get another identical drive and move the old platters over into the new drive.
If the data is important to you and you've never done this yourself, there are a number of companies which can do this for you.
I'd only recommend that DIY solution if you're both really good with your hands, there's NOTHING of value on the drive (assuming you haven't done this procedure before), and have money to burn on a new drive which at the end of the day you may have to throw away both drive.



RAID-1 doesn't help if you drive becomes corrupt due to a virus, power surge, or anything else that will affect you whole computer. I always backup on an external drive and keep it in a firesafe.

Software based recovery has come in hady several times with my old coworkers who had viruses or accidentally messed up theor partitions but yes, it's not a cure all.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:26:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:
One word, RAID. Keeping one copy of your stored data is very dumb! Running a RAID-1 array (two drives, mirrors of each other) will keep your butt pain-free if a drive fails; just replace the bad drive with an identical one and you're back to normal.


How much do you want to spend? SATA is the new shit, but that will probably require new hardware for you. Once again, I highly recommend RAID for any kind of data storage. Also, don't forget an adequate cooling solution, heat is the #1 killer of hardware.

Which drives: I'd recommend two 300-gig'ers right now (300GB is the most cost-effective solution right now, in terms of cents-per-gigabyte).

I HIGHLY recommend going to www.pricewatch.com ,find the cheapest price online for the hardware you want - knocks froogle's socks off for computer hardware (also has dealer ratings).

As an aside,
If software-based recovery is hopeless, the drive's circuit board, motor, or I/O head is fried (combo is unlikely). If you're good with your hands (and I mean really good and dextrous), you can get another identical drive and move the old platters over into the new drive.
If the data is important to you and you've never done this yourself, there are a number of companies which can do this for you.
I'd only recommend that DIY solution if you're both really good with your hands, there's NOTHING of value on the drive (assuming you haven't done this procedure before), and have money to burn on a new drive which at the end of the day you may have to throw away both drive.



RAID-1 doesn't help if you drive becomes corrupt due to a virus, power surge, or anything else that will affect you whole computer. I always backup on an external drive and keep it in a firesafe.

Software based recovery has come in hady several times with my old coworkers who had viruses or accidentally messed up theor partitions but yes, it's not a cure all.



+1.. it is unwise to rely solely on raid. better than no backup, but in all reality pretty damn close.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:34:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 11:43:52 PM EDT by Andreuha]
I never said it was, I just said that it protected against drive failures. All data is mirrored, which includes asny viruses!

Virus is usually bad, yes, but just like with a bad partition, it's a software thing, and data can still be recovered.
Backups are a also very necessary, but it's like car-insurance, if you don't hit anyone you won't wish you had it (I personally play that game now, because I've learned how to be 'safe' on my machine (and found reliable sources/communities for my downloading needs), I just scan for spyware once in a while, which I also don't remember the last time I had any of). I would recommend active backups for those prone to this crap.

A 'perfect' setup, for me, would be a RAID rig inside the machine, and a secure external drive which is plugged in, backup is updated, drive is unplugged, all on a regular schedule (eg, at night, simultaneously with the spyware scan)

This is all of course not work-related, and I hope we're just talking about crap you can download again if need be. For work (that is, multiple machines), it's a whole different setup.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:37:22 PM EDT
I am surprised nobody mentioned backing up your data to
CDROM or DVD.
Hard drives WILL fail.
Its not a matter of if, but when.
You really don't need that much capacity unless you're running some sort of
badass server.
Back your stuff up with a CD or DVD burner.
Much cheaper than a 500GB drive.
Besides, the bigger the drive, the longer it will take to back up your data.
That means you will get lazy and put it off for later, then your drive will die.
Get a Seagate 200GB drive if large capacity gives you a woody,
but you will be better served by getting a burner.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:39:24 PM EDT
You don't just want the storage in your PC. . . you want it for your network. Try this. PCR-00's got one at work.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:50:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 11:50:24 PM EDT by Andreuha]
CD's/DVD's are a very inefficient way to back up, because you can't just update for whatever changes happened on your local drive like you can with an external or network drive (or you can, but it becomes a pain in the ass).

As for the big 200TB network rig, we're talking specifically about end-user stuff, and nothing having to do with important work or business applications. Definitely not 200TB of data.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:57:24 PM EDT
CavVet's gonna need 200TB of storage for 1GR's sheep-porn needs.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:08:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 12:12:51 AM EDT by Sagus]
CavVet -

If you're looking for performance, along with storage size, Western Digital is supposed to be releasing their 150GB version of their Raptor hard drive very soon (It was announced in Germany, and was just released to a few online sellers in Europe, but apparently isn't on their U.S. website yet).

Without getting technical, these things are the kings of the heap. 10,000 rpm with blazing speed. I've got the 74gb version, and absolutely love it. It's not cheap, but in my opinion, the best. I've got mine set up as my main drive with windows and most programs on it. I use my 150GB slow WD for storage.

Link to 74 GB version
www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=65&Language=en
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:32:15 AM EDT
One more thing, while we're on the topic of keeping your machine safe from calamities.

It's always good to have your rig and monitor running off a UPS unit, which should give you some time if your power goes out and will protect you from any power fluctuations (in my case I have power sags often which my PSU couldn't compensate for fast enough; this fixed the problem).

You can get a small one online for under $40, which should give a decent computer about 8-10 minutes in a blackout situation, just enough time to finish up that last sentence or whatever and shut down normally.

BTW, The 10K raptors kick ass. Also, keeping all your programs on one of these will speed things up a whole lot, and the increase in speed will in even bigger in the long term because all your fragmented stuff (small file that you're messing with constantly) will be on a seperate drive.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:38:24 AM EDT
I have two 80 gig WD drives in my PC. One is used for the operating system(XP) and keeps my music and pics, etc. The other is set as the slave and it is used basically as a big floppy. No operatng system. Just raw storage.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:09:23 PM EDT
I went to Fry's wondering what they had on sale the day after Christmas. The place was jam packed. I knew when I pulled in the lot and drove right into a good space I would have some luck.

I had searched the net and found a 250 Seagate for 69+, I called REPC and they had a 80 GB for 69+. Fry's had a 300 GB Seagate for 69.95 on their sale, and it was the sale of the day. All gone. They had checked inventory for the mob of people, up and down, out front in back, nothing, only a big hole where they belonged.

I Was looking through the others, and they were much higher than online. Tiger Direct or NewEgg was going to get my cash I was sure. I looked up and down, External and Internal, and was ready to go.

A guy asked me if there was anything worth getting, I told him the prices were better online. The deal of the day was over there, pointing. And there it was, one 300 G sitting right where there had been none a few moments earlier.

I moved my big ass over there and snagged it. Checked the numbers, yup, that was it!




300 G Seagate, 69.95. Not a bad day. Thanks for all the help!


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