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Posted: 12/25/2005 12:45:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 12:46:21 PM EDT by snipAR_15]
Is this gun any good? Is it very accurate? How about reliability?


www.impactguns.com/store/RI1193-X.html
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:48:48 PM EDT
its a century built gun, some work, many dont. its a pretty big crap shoot. if I were you I'd get Derek at AZEX to build you one from a kit or buy a PTR-91 as those are guaranteed to work.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:50:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
its a century built gun, some work, many dont. its a pretty big crap shoot. if I were you I'd get Derek at AZEX to build you one from a kit or buy a PTR-91 as those are guaranteed to work.


Thanks. Very convienient. I visit AZ alot.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:42:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
its a century built gun, some work, many dont. its a pretty big crap shoot. if I were you I'd get Derek at AZEX to build you one from a kit or buy a PTR-91 as those are guaranteed to work.


How accurate is a G3?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:44:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:48:08 PM EDT

How accurate is a G3?

My CETME will put all rounds into a paper plate @ 100yds w/ open sights and surplus ammo.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:52:56 PM EDT
IF you decide to buy one of the Century guns do yourself a favor and get one from a stocking dealer with ALOT to choose from.

I used to sell the things for a dealer at shows here in the northwest and I can't remember the number of times someone bought one friday night or saturday morning only to show back up sunday afternoon after taking it to the range and finding out that 3/4 of the mag's would'nt fit in the mag' well.

If the seller has the rifle for sale he's probably got mag's too and I'd try a variety of them (Mag's) in the one you're interested in first. What it does at the range is a toss-up but at least it should lock-up the mag (s) to get you started. Also, feel the "smoothness" of the action on a few before you choose. Some are great but others feel like they're riding on sand.

Good luck
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 2:36:53 PM EDT
What about the place redhorseman put?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 2:45:03 PM EDT
Ive had one for about 5 years now and it runs just fine --sights were a little out when I got it (as in the cocking tube was done a little off and canted the front sight ever so slightly) other than taking a close look at that, and making sure the bolt gap is good (no grinding on the bolt) before buying. the only reason I dont shoot mine more is it tends to really beat up your shoulder more than a gas operated gun and. It is 100% reliable though. IMHO stay away from the clunky cast/pinned reciever models.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 2:50:38 PM EDT
I took my Christmas Present JLD Enterprises Inc. PTR-91 carbine (green furniture) to the range yesterday. I fired about 100 rounds of South African .308 through it without a hitch. The sights were a bit off but after adjusting, I was getting most shots within the 8" bullseye at 100yds. Not great shooting, but then I'm blind as a bat in one eye and can't see out of the other.

Fairly light rifle. Well balanced. Low recoil...easy on the shoulder. I don't particularly like the iron sights, but they are ok. I'm considering an optical...but I need to refine the sight picture better and get more consistant with my shooting.

Bottom line, I'm not at all sorry I bought it. My G3 is a nice addition to my small EBR collection.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 2:55:11 PM EDT
what kinna accuracy are you lookin for exactly? that will determine what you get
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 2:56:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 2:57:09 PM EDT by snipAR_15]

Originally Posted By MicronuT:
what kinna accuracy are you lookin for exactly? that will determine what you get



Is it accurate enough for a nation high power match?



BTW: are the rear sights adjustable?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:04:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:
What about the place redhorseman put?

I have no idea how AZex does at G3's , But he did excellent work on my AR to the point that I would go there first for any future build he says he can handle .
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:23:02 PM EDT
Way overpriced about $100 too much.

Unless you handload hot ammo buy stamped not cast reciever.
Shot both versions I prefer sporter with muzzle brake.
Look up Bill Springfield to do trigger work, highly reccomended by many here, fast turn around, only need to send the trigger group. Estimate he gave me was under $60 shipping included.

Springfield, Bill
wspringfield@adelphia.net

Century triggers are horrible, look up Bill if you buy.

Guns are workable the hitch is some Century's will not take HK mags, most will. It is accurate enough for any purpose other than precisin shooter at long range.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:34:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 3:35:16 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:
What about the place redhorseman put?

I have no idea how AZex does at G3's , But he did excellent work on my AR to the point that I would go there first for any future build he says he can handle .



Derek did a HK33 build for me. They can be pretty tricky and most people fuck them up pretty good.

Mine runs 100% and I'd rate the qaulity of the build as "impressive." Send your projects to him with confidence. Just wait till he gets mine finished first.

ETA: And stay far, far away from CAI builds.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:43:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:50:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:

Originally Posted By MicronuT:
what kinna accuracy are you lookin for exactly? that will determine what you get



Is it accurate enough for a nation high power match?






not even remotely



Absolute ceiling range on a Cetme is about or less than 400meters. Barrel is generally not HK and a cetme will not have the fine tuning to be that accurate internally. I hads a 3X on mine hitting 200+ no problem with ball, it will seem like your zero is wandering but it is the inconsistency of ammo. Scoped with ball ammo 5' inch at 200 a more skilled shooter will get tighter.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:52:40 PM EDT
Of course if you are into NFA type weapons a HK51 clone from Vector would be awfully cool. Haven't heard any bad reports on them. Aren't they built on JLD receivers?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:53:05 PM EDT
Buy a JLD PTR version, "you get what you pay for" Really good gun they put together. the price will pay off in the long run, AND THEY ARE GREAT TO SHOOT!!!!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 4:36:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:
What about the place redhorseman put?

I have no idea how AZex does at G3's , But he did excellent work on my AR to the point that I would go there first for any future build he says he can handle .



Derek did a HK33 build for me. They can be pretty tricky and most people fuck them up pretty good.

Mine runs 100% and I'd rate the qaulity of the build as "impressive." Send your projects to him with confidence. Just wait till he gets mine finished first.

ETA: And stay far, far away from CAI builds.

As much as you rip apart HK clones I would say that right there is the best endorsement of Derek's work yet .
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 5:08:54 PM EDT
I got to shoot a real G3 during a NATO exercise when I was stationed in Germany. I loved it. I am saving up to buy a good copy of one. After I save up for my M1A.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:06:17 AM EDT
Where is a good place to buy one?
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:29:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:
Where is a good place to buy one?



I've heard Atlantic is good although I don't know first hand. Here's one I'm looking at, you guys think it's a good deal?

www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=221

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:44:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:

Originally Posted By MicronuT:
what kinna accuracy are you lookin for exactly? that will determine what you get



Is it accurate enough for a nation high power match?






not even remotely



For that use, just use your AR

Any AR config you have will be usable in any match they'd let a G3/CETME into (Service Rifle, of course, is restricted to the M1 Garand, M14, and A2-style AR)... Most of the folks at such a match will be using ARs in 5.56 anyway...

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:19:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:
Where is a good place to buy one?



I've heard Atlantic is good although I don't know first hand. Here's one I'm looking at, you guys think it's a good deal?

www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=221

www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/ptr91fp2.jpg



Thumbs up for Atlantic and Blaine is a great guy but I remain unimpressed by the PTRs.

The new ones are improved over the originals but still have more than a few issues.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:27:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:
Where is a good place to buy one?



I've heard Atlantic is good although I don't know first hand. Here's one I'm looking at, you guys think it's a good deal?

www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=221

www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/ptr91fp2.jpg



Thumbs up for Atlantic and Blaine is a great guy but I remain unimpressed by the PTRs.

The new ones are improved over the originals but still have more than a few issues.



Holy Mother of God, we agree on something. I still get a kick of all these guys saying these PTRs are better then the real HKs.

Its not arrogance by any means. Its reality. The PTRs will never be as well built or good as the real HKs or even the SA 3/8s. I am not saying they are not good shooters or better built then Toads renditions.

But even the opinion of someone who has had vast experiences with HK types like SteyrAug is ignored.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:30:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:


How accurate is a G3?




It is very capable of making minute of dead to any type of target
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:07:20 PM EDT
SteyrAUG - you state the new ones are improved over the originals but still have more than a few issues.

Can you or someone here elaborate on the above mentioned issues or the problems the newer PTR91s are having? I am looking to get an HK91 or clone by the end of Q1 and would like to know which way to go.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:40:28 PM EDT
My PTR-91 sucked. I only shot about 350 rds of Wolf out of it when I found the plastic stock separating from the metal receiver by about a quarter inch. When I opened it up to look for the problem, I found that the bolt hit the little metal plate in the back so hard that it pushed that plate and the surrounding metal rearward so far that it was popping the stock off. Also, the rifle would jam every 50 rounds, usually I would find the emtpy case turned backwards inside the breach. The serial was 2,1** so it was well past the known barrel problems.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:42:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oneSoneK:
My PTR-91 sucked. I only shot about 350 rds of Wolf out of it when I found the plastic stock separating from the metal receiver by about a quarter inch. When I opened it up to look for the problem, I found that the bolt hit the little metal plate in the back so hard that it pushed that plate and the surrounding metal rearward so far that it was popping the stock off. Also, the rifle would jam every 50 rounds, usually I would find the emtpy case turned backwards inside the breach. The serial was 2,1** so it was well past the known barrel problems.



You tell that to any of the PTR diehards and they will deny it. Mine melted itself to death. As well as the known barrel problems. FTF, FTE. Also the paint was uneven and you could see the overspray inside the reciever.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 4:17:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By snipAR_15:
Where is a good place to buy one?



I've heard Atlantic is good although I don't know first hand. Here's one I'm looking at, you guys think it's a good deal?

www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=221

www.atlanticfirearms.com/admin/images/content/ptr91fp2.jpg



Thumbs up for Atlantic and Blaine is a great guy but I remain unimpressed by the PTRs.

The new ones are improved over the originals but still have more than a few issues.



Holy Mother of God, we agree on something. I still get a kick of all these guys saying these PTRs are better then the real HKs.

Its not arrogance by any means. Its reality. The PTRs will never be as well built or good as the real HKs or even the SA 3/8s. I am not saying they are not good shooters or better built then Toads renditions.

But even the opinion of someone who has had vast experiences with HK types like SteyrAug is ignored.



It is because of the way HKs are made. They are just really, really easy to fuck up if you aren't doing them in a facility designed to knock out HKs.

This is why contries like Pakistan and Iran have HK contract factorys but build their AKs in the local bicycle shops.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 4:28:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_48:
SteyrAUG - you state the new ones are improved over the originals but still have more than a few issues.

Can you or someone here elaborate on the above mentioned issues or the problems the newer PTR91s are having? I am looking to get an HK91 or clone by the end of Q1 and would like to know which way to go.



The originals were riddled with all kinds of flaws. I thought they looked like the greatest things since sliced bread but the ones I got had 100% failures. I sent my to the factory to be "fixed" but it still had many, many issues and was not something I'd deem as "reliable" so I sold it at a loss.

I've seen more than a few current ones and they still are fussy about ammo. I'm not talking reload or Wolf, but some types of military surplus. The US made stocks still suck, they aren't as godawful as the originals but they are still pretty iffy. In fairness when it comes to 922r parts you want to replace something "non critical" like the stocks. And they are limited to what is available and there is only one company I know of making US compliant HK stocks and they are hardly what I consider a top notch product.

The US made complaint barrels are IMO not the same quality as a factory HK barrel, despite reports of PTRs producing sub MOA results. Of course on the internet every rifle produces sub MOA groups. Never mind that a factory HK rifle is 2MOA. If you ask someone on the internet their PTR close will produce groups that a factory PSG1 would have a hard time doing.

The trigger is probably one of the best US made trigger groups I've seen. Really, really nice but when they do things like shim loose trigger packs with a strip of velcro it is kinda like super charging a Pinto. And don't even get me started on that goofy peep sight they created. Why they felt the need to do a "peep" on a diopter drum sight with 3 "peep" settings is beyond me. It virtually eliminates it's potential as a combat rifle.

But for me, the main issue is reliability to cycle and feed ammo types that ANY rifle should cycle and feed. That is kind of a "all the marbles" consideration.

The sad part it, like so many other clones, this "could" have been a great rifle. With the quality of the receiver there is little reason why they couldn't produce a rifle that is "as good" as a HK contract rifle. But so far they are still coming up short of that goal IMO.

Until then, the only way to get close is a custom build. And for that the JLD receivers are actually perfect.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 4:29:05 PM EDT
Tell that to the PTR guys that are supposedly getting .5 MOA and swears its much better quality then any German manufactured rifle.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 4:29:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oneSoneK:
My PTR-91 sucked. I only shot about 350 rds of Wolf out of it when I found the plastic stock separating from the metal receiver by about a quarter inch. When I opened it up to look for the problem, I found that the bolt hit the little metal plate in the back so hard that it pushed that plate and the surrounding metal rearward so far that it was popping the stock off. Also, the rifle would jam every 50 rounds, usually I would find the emtpy case turned backwards inside the breach. The serial was 2,1** so it was well past the known barrel problems.



This is exactly the kind of issues I referred to.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 4:31:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Tell that to the PTR guys that are supposedly getting .5 MOA and swears its much better quality then any German manufactured rifle.



Yeah, HK should just scrap the PSG1 and sell PTRs, they'd be much better off.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 5:30:06 PM EDT
SteyrAUG ,giving a few positive comments on the PTR ?

I must check the Weather Channels predictions for Hell tommorrow.

The PTR does have room for improvement .

The original stock on mine was gone the day I got it.
I already had a FMP Wide Forearm on it and a FMP buttstock on order
before my PTR arrived .(Yes ,I checked my parts count)

Their plastic furniture is IMHO ,unusable.The pad on the buttstock
is slicker than snot on a doorknob,I couldn't keep it in position with gear on.

I do often wish JLD used a standard thickness barrel instead of the
Heavy Match barrel.With this front heavy barrel ,it's not much fun to
carry for long distances.

However ,mine has been 100% dependable.
With Federal Match ,I can shoot 1.5 inch groups pretty consistantly,and
some occasional ones that are less.(about as many are more)
That's with a scope and a trigger job.
I'm happy with mine.
Of course ,I spent $750 for it ,not $2500 .
So for $750 ,I'm happy.
If new German built HK-91s come in am I gonna jump on it ?
Yup.
If there $750 !
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 5:57:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cobrasks:
SteyrAUG ,giving a few positive comments on the PTR ?

I must check the Weather Channels predictions for Hell tommorrow.

The PTR does have room for improvement .

The original stock on mine was gone the day I got it.
I already had a FMP Wide Forearm on it and a FMP buttstock on order
before my PTR arrived .(Yes ,I checked my parts count)

Their plastic furniture is IMHO ,unusable.The pad on the buttstock
is slicker than snot on a doorknob,I couldn't keep it in position with gear on.

I do often wish JLD used a standard thickness barrel instead of the
Heavy Match barrel.With this front heavy barrel ,it's not much fun to
carry for long distances.

However ,mine has been 100% dependable.
With Federal Match ,I can shoot 1.5 inch groups pretty consistantly,and
some occasional ones that are less.(about as many are more)
That's with a scope and a trigger job.
I'm happy with mine.
Of course ,I spent $750 for it ,not $2500 .
So for $750 ,I'm happy.
If new German built HK-91s come in am I gonna jump on it ?
Yup.
If there $750 !



No question for $750 its not a bad shooter. But you cant count how many times even on this board, people will post that their gun shoots subMOA or is much better then a real HK. For the last time its not even close. Also if a $12500 HK rifle as a hard time keeping .5 MOA I really doubt a PTR will shoot that.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 6:34:14 PM EDT
ARDOC ,
A long time ago I lost count of how many people on this sight can shoot
0.000000000000025 inch groups at 100 yards using 40
year old surplus Himilayan ammo that was discovered underwater in
Big Foot's secret Pyramid .
Off handed and standing at that.

1.5 inches benched with primo ammo and a scope is plenty good for me.
2-3 with surplus is all I'll ever need in my fight against the Tyrany of
the evil Aluminum can invasion.


If I need better than that further than 400 yards,I'll be
either running ,digging,or compost.

Especially with all these guys that are practiced trained and ready
to take me out at 1,000 yards.
(After they put down the remote and push their gut to the side
so they can get prone)
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