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Posted: 12/24/2005 2:47:01 PM EDT
......am I obligated to hire someone who has a ton of piercings on their face and 3 colored hair? Am I able to define a standard of appearance for my clerks?

I just got back from the local Speedway and one of these overpierced teenagers was working. I think they make for a bad appearance and presence in the retail business.

My wife says that it would be discrimination if I did not hire someone because they looked like that.

Thoughts?

Experiences?

­Lab
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:50:08 PM EDT
refusing to hire someone who partakes in self mutilation for fun is perfectly ethical if you ask me
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:50:51 PM EDT
I would think you can hire whom ever you please.

Esp if the postion is one of meeting the public and you had a dress code.

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:51:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 2:52:24 PM EDT by Taffy223]
Never judge the book by it's cover.(or so they say)
Give the kid a chance...employ him on a short trial basis and see how he performs.
If he's a no-brainer then you can just let him go after the trial week or so.

Overt facial piercings do not look attractive in my view. The odd nose ring can look fine.
He may have a great raport with the customers and prove to be an asset to your staff

Only one way to find out

Merry Christmas
Taffy


ETA

ONLY EMPLOY HIM IF HE'S THE BEST CANDIDATE
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:52:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 2:52:54 PM EDT by pale_pony]
I don't know about Ohio, but most states (including Oklahoma where I live) are "At-Will" employment states meaning that you cannot force someone to work for you and they cannot force you to let them work for you.

I have many times told applicants that, if they EVER want someone to take them seriously, they are going to have to get with the program and loose the <fill-in-the-blank>
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:53:53 PM EDT
You do not have to hire him, it's not discrimination unless you tell them you didn't hire them because of appearance. Just don't tell them they didn't get hired!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:56:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:57:18 PM EDT
You can discriminate for many reasons, including appearance. Tats, piercings, brands, etc. are voluntary. You can also discriminate against smokers and fat people.

You cannot discriminate based on sex, religion, ethnicity, etc., unless there is a demonstrable safety reason for doing so. For example fertile women shouldn't be working in an electroplating facility.

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:05:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeWang:
You can discriminate for many reasons, including appearance. Tats, piercings, brands, etc. are voluntary. You can also discriminate against smokers and fat people.

You cannot discriminate based on sex, religion, ethnicity, etc., unless there is a demonstrable safety reason for doing so. For example fertile women shouldn't be working in an electroplating facility.



We have a winner. Body piercings and weird hair are not protected categories of the Civil Rights Act and some of the newer laws.

You do not even need to tell the freak why he's not being hired, anyway.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:13:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By JoeWang:
You can discriminate for many reasons, including appearance. Tats, piercings, brands, etc. are voluntary. You can also discriminate against smokers and fat people.

You cannot discriminate based on sex, religion, ethnicity, etc., unless there is a demonstrable safety reason for doing so. For example fertile women shouldn't be working in an electroplating facility.



We have a winner. Body piercings and weird hair are not protected categories of the Civil Rights Act and some of the newer laws.

You do not even need to tell the freak why he's not being hired, anyway.

YET!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:15:36 PM EDT
The local Petsmart has a male cashier that needs to BATHE on occasion. The dude stinks !! It's disgusting. My dogs smell better than he does [ even after they've been rolling in doggie perfume aka cat shit ]
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:22:32 PM EDT
It is not a matter of how they look. It is how the customers will react.

The freak may scare them away! I would not hire them for that alone

Just say they are not qualified and drive on
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:24:26 PM EDT
I hired a guy who was dressed nicely in a button up shirt and tie. He was polite, articulate, etc. He showed up for work on his first day with a t-shirt on, tattoos all over his arms and up his neck.

I told him it wouldn't work out and sent him home.

My customers would not look past the tattoos, as they are old folks. Therefore, I have to think like they do.

Not only do we have a no questions asked 90-day training period, but California is an "at-will" state, so he was gone. There are too many others wanting jobs who do not look like that.

Eric
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:25:18 PM EDT
You don't have to hire anyone you don't want to.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:25:24 PM EDT
Just require a strict dress code, specifically stating "conservative haircut" among other things (I work retail at a hotel and our dress code says struff like that).
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:27:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By JoeWang:
You can discriminate for many reasons, including appearance. Tats, piercings, brands, etc. are voluntary. You can also discriminate against smokers and fat people.

You cannot discriminate based on sex, religion, ethnicity, etc., unless there is a demonstrable safety reason for doing so. For example fertile women shouldn't be working in an electroplating facility.



We have a winner. Body piercings and weird hair are not protected categories of the Civil Rights Act and some of the newer laws.

You do not even need to tell the freak why he's not being hired, anyway.

YET!


You still can refuse to hire and never explain why to anyone. Good luck trying to prove discrimination.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:38:30 PM EDT
Just my guess.........

They didn't interview well?

Look...Appearence is importnat.

I'm in good shape, and, have a buzz cut flat top
when I meet clients.

They are looking for no BS, time now security for a reason.

Appearence gives it to them.

I don't think you are in any danger.

Somone who sticks themselves that much has deep, deep issues.

I'm not bashing them.

It's like the dummys that need huge trucks or cars to express who they are.

I'm not impressed by either. I'd be less likly to hire somone who pulled up in a
stupid ass huge 4WD...Same as Piercing guy.

It's all a sign of not being ok with yourself.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:39:35 PM EDT

Most things don't bother me. Eyebrow rings, tattoos, colored/spiked/shaved/dreadlocked hair, whatever. The only thing that really gets on my nerves are lip/tongue piercings that cause speech impediments.

Jim
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:48:18 PM EDT
I interviewed some guys when we were looking for another salesman. Two of them had so many piercings they looked like they'd been attacked by a nail gun. One had tattos on his neck and forehead. I hired the guy who was clean cut, dressed well and could talk like an intelligent human being. I don't feel bad about it, I gave them a fair shake by giving them an interview. If they had been serious about getting the job they would have taken the jewelry out.

There is a differance between refusing to hire due to race or gender and refusing to hire based on personal appearance. Look at it this way, when was the last time you saw an investment banker working in shredded blue jeans and combat boots? I know I wouldn't trust that guy.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:49:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
Most things don't bother me. Eyebrow rings, tattoos, colored/spiked/shaved/dreadlocked hair, whatever. The only thing that really gets on my nerves are lip/tongue piercings that cause speech impediments.

Jim



you tttthough mean....

Taffy
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:59:11 PM EDT
As an owner you can hire just about whoever you want to.............

just as long as you are reasonable in your judgement.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:00:46 PM EDT
In my opinion it's only discrimination if they don't have a choice in the matter. Such as race, sexual preference, religion, etc.

Piercings all over your face are a choice. They chose to look like dumbasses, so welcome to unemployment. We all make our own beds and have to lie in them.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:00:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 4:01:27 PM EDT by TexasEd]
Man that's discrimination !!! I just want a job!!!


Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:03:56 PM EDT
Response letter to a no hire should include:

Due to keen competition we have selected another candidate at this time, please understand we need employees who are not looking like they wallowed in a fish hook barrel and ran thru an Earl Scheibs paint booth.

Respectfully

UR Screwed
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:09:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LABLOVER:
......am I obligated to hire someone who has a ton of piercings on their face and 3 colored hair? Am I able to define a standard of appearance for my clerks?

I just got back from the local Speedway and one of these overpierced teenagers was working. I think they make for a bad appearance and presence in the retail business.

My wife says that it would be discrimination if I did not hire someone because they looked like that.
Thoughts?

Experiences?

­Lab



Only if you were dumb enough to tell them that was the reason! Do you live in an 'At will' state?

I have never given anybody a reason for hiring someone else other than "I hired someone else/more qualified".

NEVER give a reason if you aren't forced to. If you are limit it to the example above.

Merry Christmas!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:12:35 PM EDT
I hear this guy is looking for a job....



This freak lives about 30 miles south of me.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:16:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 4:17:54 PM EDT by KA3B]
Would you hire her....

Must go to the team forum to see her....
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:40:28 PM EDT
It should never come up, but if it does, all you have to say is that the candidate didn't make a positive impression on you at the interview. Freaks are not a protected species. No questions will ever be asked.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:03:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 6:03:58 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
"I've decided to go with another applicant" has served me well.
I don't elaborate.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:08:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:19:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LABLOVER:
I just got back from the local Speedway and one of these overpierced teenagers was working. I think they make for a bad appearance and presence in the retail business.



They probably have a limited pool of applicants. Scary to think that that guy is the cream of the crop applicants, eh?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:20:54 AM EDT
For a cashier, you are hiring someone to essentially be the "face" of your business. I dont think anyone in their right mind would want someone that looks like they fell face-first into a tackle box representing them.
Its your business, so its your choice. I wouldnt consider it discrimination. If someone gets hurt and has limited movement, thats not their fault. Skin color, injuries, religious viewpoints- should all be grounds for discrimination. Using your face to test Rapala tackle is a choice, and should be treated as such by everyone.

An aquaintance of mine from a previous job works for the company that cleans and waxes the floors at my present job. He has bolts thru his nose, a safety pin in his eyebrow, tattoos all over his arms, and those stretched out tribesman ear-lobes freaks are running around with these days. Every time I see him, he complains about not being able to find a job. I wonder why.

I never had much use for piercing. I figured I spend too much time trying to keep from poking holes in myself, to turn around and pay someone to do it for me.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:33:41 PM EDT
We've hired some,THEN they show up looking like they got face stapled.
Never seem to make their probationary period though.....

One time,we did hire a mid 30's "church lady".She started showing up for work in leather.Mmmm
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:44:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xdoctor:
I interviewed some guys when we were looking for another salesman. Two of them had so many piercings they looked like they'd been attacked by a nail gun. One had tattos on his neck and forehead. I hired the guy who was clean cut, dressed well and could talk like an intelligent human being. I don't feel bad about it, I gave them a fair shake by giving them an interview. If they had been serious about getting the job they would have taken the jewelry out.




As hypocritical as it would sound, I'm not big on people with face piercings either. Not at work anyway.

That said, I have tattoos way too obvious to hide including multiple neck and ear tattoos. I'll outsell your cleanest cut salesman any day of the week. But I do have some language skills so I cannot begrudge you for disliking someone who speaks poorly.

I actually find my tattoos help in selling. They give me a "wedge" to get into conversation and build a rapport. Most everyone asks about them....where did I get them, why did I get them etc. Once they've given me an opportunity to speak they already fucked up. They're giving me some cash today.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:45:40 PM EDT
Also....FWIW....I EXPECT to be turned down for jobs. Fortunately it's been 5 years since I've had to look for one. I'll never make an employer other than me rich again as long as I live.
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