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Posted: 12/23/2005 8:56:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 9:28:23 PM EDT by Dukota]
I had an EMG the other day because I've been having pretty severe neck pain (I've got a herniated disc c6/c7) which goes down into the back of my shoulders (scapula) and down the arm causing the pinky and ring finger to go numb and tingley. I also have absolutely no strengh in the right shoulder and latimus and have a hard time even lifting my arm over my head.

So, back to the EMG, it turns out I have severe damage to the Long Thoracic Nerve which has caused partial paralysis to the muscles under the shoulder blade and a wing scapula condition.

Anyone ever had/heard of this condition? The orthopeadic surgeon treating me for this doesn't really seem to know a whole lot about it and is kinda searching for something that works. Starting with MethylPREDNISolone and physical therapy.

So what say you, anyone know anything about this?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:30:21 PM EDT
Shameless bump...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:50:49 PM EDT
All i know about is the lower back and extreme pain/numbness down the right leg.

i know.. i am no help
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:02:38 PM EDT
Got that too, herniated disc L5/S1.

I'm just a wreck
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:34:18 PM EDT
$26,050.00 for a piece if titanium and 2 screws alone

Last surgery cost over $60.000
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:36:46 AM EDT
The brachial plexus of nerves arises from the C-4 to T-1 level in the neck and upper back.

Those nerve roots become the peripheral nerves that service the arm-forearm-hand-fingers.

Impingment on those nerves can be interpreted by the brain as pain or numbness.

The pain up the neck and down the back is muscle spasms.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:34:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TUMOR:
The brachial plexus of nerves arises from the C-4 to T-1 level in the neck and upper back.

Those nerve roots become the peripheral nerves that service the arm-forearm-hand-fingers.

Impingment on those nerves can be interpreted by the brain as pain or numbness.

The pain up the neck and down the back is muscle spasms.



The problem is I don't think my orthopeadic surgeon really knows how to treat it. Do I need to see a neurologist to fix this problem?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:49:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dukota:

Originally Posted By TUMOR:
The brachial plexus of nerves arises from the C-4 to T-1 level in the neck and upper back.

Those nerve roots become the peripheral nerves that service the arm-forearm-hand-fingers.

Impingment on those nerves can be interpreted by the brain as pain or numbness.

The pain up the neck and down the back is muscle spasms.



The problem is I don't think my orthopeadic surgeon really knows how to treat it. Do I need to see a neurologist to fix this problem?



Go to a speciality clinic
I believe that there is a spine clinic in Texas that is nationally regarded.Medrol (methylpredisolone) is my drug of choice when I am in pain. It is basically oral (systemic) cortisone. Has your Doc talked to you about epidural stroid injections? How bad is the HNP at C6/7? Does it impinge on the nerve root? Did you see a neurologist for your electrophysiological testing? What did they tell you?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:51:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dukota:
The problem is I don't think my orthopeadic surgeon really knows how to treat it. Do I need to see a neurologist to fix this problem?



A neurologist may not be able to fix it, but he/she can likely help with the pain.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:52:44 AM EDT
Try a Chiropractor.


or not.



bash away.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:59:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By uafgrad:

Originally Posted By Dukota:

Originally Posted By TUMOR:
The brachial plexus of nerves arises from the C-4 to T-1 level in the neck and upper back.

Those nerve roots become the peripheral nerves that service the arm-forearm-hand-fingers.

Impingment on those nerves can be interpreted by the brain as pain or numbness.

The pain up the neck and down the back is muscle spasms.



The problem is I don't think my orthopeadic surgeon really knows how to treat it. Do I need to see a neurologist to fix this problem?



Go to a speciality clinic
I believe that there is a spine clinic in Texas that is nationally regarded.Medrol (methylpredisolone) is my drug of choice when I am in pain. It is basically oral (systemic) cortisone. Has your Doc talked to you about epidural stroid injections? How bad is the HNP at C6/7? Does it impinge on the nerve root? Did you see a neurologist for your electrophysiological testing? What did they tell you?



There is a specialty clinic in Houston. I have contacted them by email, I need to give them a call. I told my Dr. about them and he didn't know anything about it but wanted me to print and bring the info in.

I got ont cotisone injection into my shoulder but that didn't do anything, I haven't had an epidural injection into my neck yet, maybe down the road.

The EMG was done at my Orthopeadics office by another Dr. He just said I had SEVERE DAMAGE to the Long Thoracic nerve which is causing partial paralysis to the muscles under and around the scapula. He also said I had some damage to the Ulnar nerve which runs into both arms, the funny bone and into the hands. He really didn't say what was causing it.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:01:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:
Try a Chiropractor.


or not.



bash away.



I used a chiropractor in the past, back in Feb when this problem flared up and he was able to make the neck pain go away but the paralysis/lack of strengh in the shoulder never got any better. My 10 year old son can throw a football farther than I can.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:06:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 11:09:30 AM EDT by drjarhead]
Info you give is good, though a little limited.

My suspicion is that it is the disc causing your problems.
Traction might provide temporary relief.
Good muscle tone in the neck and back are essential.

I am not precisely sure where the origin of the problem is but if you have a disc impinging on the nerve roots you will have such problems.
Typically, however, it is C7-8 that give sensory ennervation to the medial hand where you are having problems.
The long thoracic nerve roots come from C5,6,7.

However, I would question a brachial plexus injury as the nerve fibers from the long thoracic and ulnar nerves are pretty far apart.

I STRONGLY recommend you see a GOOD neurosurgeon ASAP.
When there is lack of function, weakness, it needs to be dealt with. I agree with the steroids, though epidural inection may be more efficacious. Ice. Physical therapy may provide some benefit but in your situation might also cause further damage so if it makes your symptoms worse you should think about that.

I never refer to quackopractors--J/K
I have seen them do more damage in such situations but YMMV.

IMO if you are not getting relief soon or are having worsening symptoms you are probably going to need some sort of surgical procedure.

See a neurosurgeon but find a good one. Doesn't hurt to see what they say.

ETA: Oh yeah, you need an MRI of your neck if not already done.
Bud, this shit needs to be dealt with, you have already waited too long.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:12:22 AM EDT
Okay, I misread your post first time.

A C6-7 disc hernaition would fit all of your symptoms. Get thee to a neurosurgeon.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:12:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dukota:

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:
Try a Chiropractor.


or not.



bash away.



I used a chiropractor in the past, back in Feb when this problem flared up and he was able to make the neck pain go away but the paralysis/lack of strengh in the shoulder never got any better. My 10 year old son can throw a football farther than I can.



Nerve impingement causes damage that can be fixed, depending...

See a good neurosurgeon/orthpedic surgeon who specializes in necks. Don't f*ck around with back manipulation until you know for sure you can't cause more damage.

The spine specialty clinic in Houston that's world famous is at the Texas Medical Center, I think.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:14:32 AM EDT
DrJarhead, it burns when I pee, whats wrong with me?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:16:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Info you give is good, though a little limited.

My suspicion is that it is the disc causing your problems.
Traction might provide temporary relief.
Good muscle tone in the neck and back are essential.

I am not precisely sure where the origin of the problem is but if you have a disc impinging on the nerve roots you will have such problems.
Typically, however, it is C7-8 that give sensory ennervation to the medial hand where you are having problems.
The long thoracic nerve roots come from C5,6,7.

However, I would question a brachial plexus injury as the nerve fibers from the long thoracic and ulnar nerves are pretty far apart.

I STRONGLY recommend you see a GOOD neurosurgeon ASAP.
When there is lack of function, weakness, it needs to be dealt with. I agree with the steroids, though epidural inection may be more efficacious. Ice. Physical therapy may provide some benefit but in your situation might also cause further damage so if it makes your symptoms worse you should think about that.

I never refer to quackopractors--J/K
I have seen them do more damage in such situations but YMMV.

IMO if you are not getting relief soon or are having worsening symptoms you are probably going to need some sort of surgical procedure.

See a neurosurgeon but find a good one. Doesn't hurt to see what they say.

ETA: Oh yeah, you need an MRI of your neck if not already done.
Bud, this shit needs to be dealt with, you have already waited too long.



All very good info, thanks VERY much. I have read a lot of similar information. I figure I need to see a neurologist next week, I don't know if I need a referal to get in though. I am also going to contact the "Nath Winging Scapula institute" in Houston to see what they can do for me.

http://www.drnathwingingscapula.com/
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:17:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZootTX:
DrJarhead, it burns when I pee, whats wrong with me?



Quit sticking your dick in guy's poop chutes.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:20:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dukota:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Info you give is good, though a little limited.

My suspicion is that it is the disc causing your problems.
Traction might provide temporary relief.
Good muscle tone in the neck and back are essential.

I am not precisely sure where the origin of the problem is but if you have a disc impinging on the nerve roots you will have such problems.
Typically, however, it is C7-8 that give sensory ennervation to the medial hand where you are having problems.
The long thoracic nerve roots come from C5,6,7.

However, I would question a brachial plexus injury as the nerve fibers from the long thoracic and ulnar nerves are pretty far apart.

I STRONGLY recommend you see a GOOD neurosurgeon ASAP.
When there is lack of function, weakness, it needs to be dealt with. I agree with the steroids, though epidural inection may be more efficacious. Ice. Physical therapy may provide some benefit but in your situation might also cause further damage so if it makes your symptoms worse you should think about that.

I never refer to quackopractors--J/K
I have seen them do more damage in such situations but YMMV.

IMO if you are not getting relief soon or are having worsening symptoms you are probably going to need some sort of surgical procedure.

See a neurosurgeon but find a good one. Doesn't hurt to see what they say.

ETA: Oh yeah, you need an MRI of your neck if not already done.
Bud, this shit needs to be dealt with, you have already waited too long.



All very good info, thanks VERY much. I have read a lot of similar information. I figure I need to see a neurologist next week, I don't know if I need a referal to get in though. I am also going to contact the "Nath Winging Scapula institute" in Houston to see what they can do for me.

http://www.drnathwingingscapula.com/



Actually, I said neuroSURGEON.
If you see a neurologist though he will get you set up.
Did you have an MRI of your neck, or not?

I would not expect to get complete return of fucntion at this point, FWIW. Hate to be the bearer of bad news. You never know though, it can definitely take a while for never function to return. GENERALLY, what you have in a year is what you are stuck with.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:23:24 AM EDT
I did have an MRI of the neck and it did show a herniation at the c6/c7 area. They said it wasn't extremely bad but it is there.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:40:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dukota:
I did have an MRI of the neck and it did show a herniation at the c6/c7 area. They said it wasn't extremely bad but it is there.



Possible that the disc herniation isn't the problem but it would seem likely. Also, when was it done? things change.

Further, there may be impingment of the nerve roots at the foramina--the little holes the nerves come out of the spine at.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:41:12 AM EDT
I agree with drjarhead. Go see a neurosurgeon. The orthopedic guy will be of no further help, and the likelihood of a chiropractor fixing anything is very slim at this point. You can only get so far with the neurologist, so I'd go straight to the neurosurgeon based on your description.

The longer you have pressure on those nerves, the less they will recover. I had C5/C6/C7 issues, severe pain like you describe. MRIs didn't reveal my particular problem, had to get a spinal myelogram. Ended up fusing C5/C6, plus other trimming and cleanup in there. The pain was gone immediately and after several months, maybe a year, my numbness was gone. I'm very happy with the results.

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:42:37 AM EDT
I've got an Fu'ed neck and everyone [ including some well respected neurosurgeons and pain specialists ] have said that if anyone ever wants to cut on me that I need to RUN AWAY as fast as I can [ which ain't very fast anymore]. Back in 2000 when I first started having the bad issues I had this vision of a bit of surgery and being good to go. HAH !

I get a lot of relief from a soft neck brace. This helps take some of the load off of the neck and keeps it from compressing down onto the nerves. The soft collar wedges between my chin and chest which basically stretches my neck instead of it being in it's normal compressed state. Whenever I go hunting I wear the damned collar so that I am protected from stepping into holes or having to step down off a bank, etc , any situation that would create an increased G load on the neck.

Payback from abusing my body for 51 years
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:58:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rjay:
I've got an Fu'ed neck and everyone [ including some well respected neurosurgeons and pain specialists ] have said that if anyone ever wants to cut on me that I need to RUN AWAY as fast as I can [ which ain't very fast anymore]. Back in 2000 when I first started having the bad issues I had this vision of a bit of surgery and being good to go. HAH !

I get a lot of relief from a soft neck brace. This helps take some of the load off of the neck and keeps it from compressing down onto the nerves. The soft collar wedges between my chin and chest which basically stretches my neck instead of it being in it's normal compressed state. Whenever I go hunting I wear the damned collar so that I am protected from stepping into holes or having to step down off a bank, etc , any situation that would create an increased G load on the neck.

Payback from abusing my body for 51 years



Treatment depends on the symptoms and the etiology of the problem.

I do agree that a sof collar may provide some relief of your symptoms on an as needed basis. Not going to solve the problem though.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:16:00 PM EDT
Thanks for all the replies. I will look up a neurosurgeon and see if I can get in to see him/her as soon as possible. All of the replies sound exactly like what I am dealing with.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:19:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dukota:
Thanks for all the replies. I will look up a neurosurgeon and see if I can get in to see him/her as soon as possible. All of the replies sound exactly like what I am dealing with.



Sure, my final post is:

Don't just go to anyone, ie don't pick them out of the phone book. Get a good referral from your family doc or Ortho.
Best of luck, bro.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:51:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 3:55:24 PM EDT by rjay]

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Treatment depends on the symptoms and the etiology of the problem.

I do agree that a sof collar may provide some relief of your symptoms on an as needed basis. Not going to solve the problem though.(]





Compressed disc's. Cervical Spondolytis ??? CRS !!! Arthritis basically all up and down the spine. My atlas and axis are really grindy. I'm tall and really thin and small boned and landed on my head a lot . Got clotheslined by a stout thorny vine back in 2000 and finished it off. Really twisted my head hard and far to the left. Vine was trapped in my helmet while trying to cut my head off. I looked like Frankenstein for about 2 months . Multiple cuts on the neck 3/4's around. From the lf center of the throat to the lf center of the back of the neck. I thought I was DRT.

6 months later my neck locks up. A couple of weeks later after the 2nd occurance I got a neurosurgeon referal from a motorcycle racer that already had a couple of fused vertabra in his neck. Dr say ' You fooocked'. About a year later I went back to see the neuro but he had moved and the replacement Dr say ' You fooocked ' and sent me to a pain specialist. This is after 2 mri's , x- rays etc. Vioxx really helped.

My worst problem is that the neck compression triggers migraines. I've been a life long migraine sufferer and the neck probs have really made them bad. They've got me on epilepsy drugs to help control the headaches.

Hey !!! I ain't dead yet !!

Necks bothering me now, gotta go find a collar.

Later
rj

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