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Posted: 12/23/2005 6:03:38 PM EDT
I am sure the existence of another Waco thread will piss off the .gov apologizers. If so, then feel free to right-click on Windoze IE's individual page icon and select "Close" from the list of choices.

Question is: Can something like this happen again? In an age of video everywhere, wireless phone cameras that can record 2 hour video on a mini-SD card, the Internet linking people together, media in a total-competition mode where they cut nothing out...

I am hoping the answer is "NO." I take it that we've gone 11 years since the last travesty; perhaps gummint's ability to "create the facts" has finally hit a brick wall.

Poll to follow.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:04:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 6:04:40 PM EDT by TheRedHorseman]
11 years ago isnt "modern"?

edit: and yes I'm sure it could but it would be far less media allowed
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:04:25 PM EDT
Well, it did.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:04:40 PM EDT
Maybe with Chuckie Schumer as AG
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:05:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
Maybe with Chuckie Schumer as AG





There's a visual image I could do without.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:06:10 PM EDT
It can happen and it WILL happen again. On some level it will happen again.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:06:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Well, it did.


Clarify, please.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:07:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 6:09:21 PM EDT by TacticalMan]
Under Bush or another Republican, no. The Democrats would assasinate him if he did.


Under a Democrat president? 11 years ago *is* "modern day".
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:08:02 PM EDT
Sure, just find a plausible excuse to do it in the name of fighting terrorism and you can do whatever you want...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:08:44 PM EDT
100 % ?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:09:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:10:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Well, it did.


Clarify, please.



It already happened in "modern day America".
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:12:02 PM EDT
I watched a live feed from Waco all day from the control room of an NBC Affiliate in OKC the day it burned...I remember everyone freaking out when the first puff of smoke/flame was spotted...There was no way the media could have been anymore on top of that..
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:19:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:
I watched a live feed from Waco all day from the control room of an NBC Affiliate in OKC the day it burned...I remember everyone freaking out when the first puff of smoke/flame was spotted...There was no way the media could have been anymore on top of that..



True, but the media pretty much parroted whatever the feds stated.
I really don't remember seeing or hearing very much in favor of the BDs or
letting the BDs tell their story until much later.
Years later.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:20:55 PM EDT
Yes, it could happen again and it wasn't that long ago that all that crap happened.

HH
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:21:10 PM EDT
11 years ago is "Modern America", btw.

As for your question, .gov can clamp down as hard as they want to when the SHTF. Cut phone/data lines, disable satilite dishes, jam cell phones.

Plus, they can spin the media any way they want.

Av.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:22:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VoodooChile:
I watched a live feed from Waco all day from the control room of an NBC Affiliate in OKC the day it burned...I remember everyone freaking out when the first puff of smoke/flame was spotted...There was no way the media could have been anymore on top of that..



They weren't very close - the .gov saw to that. Today, there'd be a private venture FLIR aircraft aloft that would be monitoring every CS and flashbang grenade explosion, CBS would be using former-Soviet spy sats to peer down on the compound, and the BDs would be posting every minute with a webcam and a wireless phone.

The .gov would, of course, try to take them all down with ELINT, but then the Newsies'd piss and moan. There'd be NO QUARTER for tyrants in the digital age.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:22:16 PM EDT
Never again, the government has learned from its mistakes
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:23:38 PM EDT
I would post that those things happened in "modern day America"......but I pretty sure it has been well covered.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:27:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Avalon01:

Plus, they can spin the media any way they want.



Doing a fine job in Iraq on that one.



Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:31:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By Avalon01:

Plus, they can spin the media any way they want.



Doing a fine job in Iraq on that one.






Thats because liberal media is against the Iraq operation.
Thats why the Feds have a hard time spinning it.
If there was a "cult" with a child molesting leader with 50 wives and
3,000 machineguns, 50 bombs, 2 tanks, 4 rockets, 450,000 rounds of ammo, guess what...


Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:38:16 PM EDT
Not unless it's a crackdown on some terrorist affiliated complex.

The PA allows for such exploits all in the name of National Security.

Make sure you aren't misquoted somewhere. Don't become a suspect.

Produce, Consume, Conform.......Nothing to see here, Move along.

HS1
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:38:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
Thats because liberal media is against the Iraq operation.
Thats why the Feds have a hard time spinning it.
If there was a "cult" with a child molesting leader with 50 wives and
3,000 machineguns, 50 bombs, 2 tanks, 4 rockets, 450,000 rounds of ammo, guess what...





They were poor and abused and misunderstood........

If GW was the President...........


If it was Hitlery.......See above your post.


The libtards spin the media, the .gov doesnt. Thats the wag in the dog.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:38:42 PM EDT
I thought they did happen in modern day America?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:39:36 PM EDT
It's happening right now, sssssshhhhhh.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:41:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
If there was a "cult" with a child molesting leader with 50 wives and
3,000 machineguns, 50 bombs, 2 tanks, 4 rockets, 450,000 rounds of ammo, guess what...
hinking.gif



Yep, he would be their golden child, except for the firearms......

Waco was not all that longh ago, I was in the area and watched it happen...shit, I guess it was over a decade ago.....damn, seems more recent. Guess i;m getting old :)
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:41:58 PM EDT
Matter of time..........

tick
tick
tick



W­here you going to be when the shooting starts?


Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:44:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
I thought they did happen in modern day America?



Not quite so modern with the current day Republican control of the House, Senate and POTUS.

All this shit happened on the Democrat/Liberal controlled .gov of yore.

The hypocracy of the Dems is revolting but not unexpected. Forever they have cried about invasion of privacy at the hands of the repubs, yet Waco and RR were both humongous invasions of privacy and gross and deliberate violations of the Bill of Rights.

HS1(subversive)
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:49:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
11 years ago isnt "modern"?

edit: and yes I'm sure it could but it would be far less media allowed




Just about to post the same thing......


Sure wasn't THAT long ago. One would LIKE to think though, that after the fallout of those two debacles, the goobermint would think twice and maybe three times, before ever pulling another stunt like that.


One would LIKE to think........

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:50:01 PM EDT
Depends on what race of ppl. are involved in the standoff...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:51:48 PM EDT
Those things did happen in modern day, not 50 yrs ago......
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 8:42:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bag_Man:
Those things did happen in modern day, not 50 yrs ago......



Good grief, all you oldsters are whining about the "modern day" comment...

So, when was the internet's explosion into the current state? 1996 or so, as I recall, although tendrils of the web were reaching out as early as 1991. The digitization of the Information Age occurred just prior to 2K.

For the record, I am 40, not some dickweed 15 year-old.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:19:37 AM EDT
day bump for the Christmas Eve bunch!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:27:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
11 years ago isnt "modern"?

edit: and yes I'm sure it could but it would be far less media allowed



+1 and no shit.

Will LIKELY happen again. Probability increased by a Democratic President with an agenda.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:27:53 AM EDT
It'll happen again..........GUARANTEED!

And with media simply touting the .Gov line.............NO PROBLEM for the sheeple!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:28:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:29:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
Under Bush or another Republican, no. The Democrats would assasinate him if he did.


Under a Democrat president? 11 years ago *is* "modern day".



Ummmm, Ruby Ridge happened when Bush Sr. was President.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:34:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:34:51 AM EDT
The gubmint did learn a few things in the last few years. Note how they have been tippy-toeing around the polygamous dude in the boonies in TX in his "compound." Pre-Waco, the gubmint woulda sent in a bunch of goons and arrested him.

So, yes, it could happen again, and it will happen again, but when it does the gubmint will do a better job of media control and spin.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:35:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Yes of course.




Yup.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:36:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
Under Bush or another Republican, no. The Democrats would assasinate him if he did.


Under a Democrat president? 11 years ago *is* "modern day".



Ummmm, Ruby Ridge happened when Bush Sr. was President.



I KNEW IT!..............BUSH DID IT!

But that's TRUE..........Vickie Weaver got a bullet thru the head on BUSH#1's watch!

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:42:47 AM EDT
Whew! Looks like my point of view isn't very popular amongst this crowd.

Come on, guys, don't you think that they'd have such an incredibly difficult time pulling something like this off with all the media and cameras, that they'd look like a bunch of dickheads?

Remember, riots occured over a lot less - Remember Rodney King? People of color were wildly upset by what appeared to be racial injustice ingrained in the courts and in the LA police.

Why weren't all Americans as riled up when Koresh and his people got the torch? Would we be that mad now?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:51:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
Whew! Looks like my point of view isn't very popular amongst this crowd.

Come on, guys, don't you think that they'd have such an incredibly difficult time pulling something like this off with all the media and cameras, that they'd look like a bunch of dickheads?

Remember, riots occured over a lot less - Remember Rodney King? People of color were wildly upset by what appeared to be racial injustice ingrained in the courts and in the LA police.

Why weren't all Americans as riled up when Koresh and his people got the torch? Would we be that mad now?



You forget. We're gun owners. We're mostly Republicans. Many of us are Christians. We're the scum of the earth. We kill little babies and eat them for breakfast. We sodomize puppies and skin them alive. The MSM doesn't give a rat's ass if a few of us get burned alive. They only care if a peace-loving suicide bomber is "unlawfully detained".
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:52:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By Avalon01:

Plus, they can spin the media any way they want.



Doing a fine job in Iraq on that one.






Thats because liberal media is against the Iraq operation.
Thats why the Feds have a hard time spinning it.
If there was a "cult" with a child molesting leader with 50 wives and
3,000 machineguns, 50 bombs, 2 tanks, 4 rockets, 450,000 rounds of ammo, guess what...





Besides, the libtards would just call the people inside "misjudged" and "not understood" as well they should be able to "have freedom of religion" and they are just "protecting themselves".

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 9:37:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
Why weren't all Americans as riled up when Koresh and his people got the torch? Would we be that mad now?



Because the racial flames weren't fanned by the race pimps and the media.

Mr. & Mrs. Sheeple couldn't care less!..........until they are on the receiving end of the shaft!

I got REAL MAD over WACO.................and I lost faith...........I'm still real mad.........and still faithless that this society will survive or that .Gov is worth a shit!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 9:43:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nightdriver:
Matter of time..........

tick
tick
tick



W­here you going to be when the shooting starts?



Best post on ARFCOM EVER!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:35:26 AM EDT
It is not a matter of if .
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:18:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 6:19:51 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By samsong:
Whew! Looks like my point of view isn't very popular amongst this crowd.

Come on, guys, don't you think that they'd have such an incredibly difficult time pulling something like this off with all the media and cameras, that they'd look like a bunch of dickheads?

Remember, riots occured over a lot less - Remember Rodney King? People of color were wildly upset by what appeared to be racial injustice ingrained in the courts and in the LA police.

Why weren't all Americans as riled up when Koresh and his people got the torch? Would we be that mad now?



No. People would bitch and complain and there would be hundreds of protests and that would be about it. The people involved would be portrayed as drug dealers, child molestors, etc. and a good portion of this forum would line up behind the .gov position and say the people involved should have "cooperated" and it wouldn't have happened.

You can burn down a building full of white folks or shoot some guys wife over a failure to appear and NOBODY is gonna riot.

Now if you take pictures of naked terrorists THEN you may have a problem on your hands.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:39:14 PM EDT
Somewhere in Amerika tonight it is likely that a handful of JBTs are kicking down someone's doors and violating their 4th Amend Rights based on the word of some scumbag trying to get out of raping a 4 year old.

Just a hunch.

Point is it probably happens more than many of us think, it just isn't as big a deal as Waco, the media doesn't give a shit, and the people are too afraid to speak out due to the threats and power of the gov't. Or maybe it is a throw down weapon, or some thrown down drugs. It happens.

As for Waco and Ruby Ridge, of course they will happen again.
Where will I be when it does? Well, that depends on some of the rest of you and on where it occurs.

I also take exception to the "modern times" comment. Sorry Samsong.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:42:23 PM EDT
it can, and it DID.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:50:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TUMOR:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
Under Bush or another Republican, no. The Democrats would assasinate him if he did.


Under a Democrat president? 11 years ago *is* "modern day".



Ummmm, Ruby Ridge happened when Bush Sr. was President.



I KNEW IT!..............BUSH DID IT!

But that's TRUE..........Vickie Weaver got a bullet thru the head on BUSH#1's watch!




Yup, it sure did.
And Bush wrote the exec order crapping all over the 2nd.
And after the '94 Klinton Gunban, Bush Sr told the NRA to shove their lifetime membership.

We are friends of convenience only for most of those in Washington.
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