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Posted: 12/23/2005 3:44:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 3:56:40 PM EDT by memyselfandi]
To make a long story short I was driving inbetween Corrigan and Livingston towards Houston and a State Trooper pulled me over. According to him I was going a consistant 79mph and ask me if I saw his light that was used to "positively identify me". He claimed that he shined his spotlight through my cab and over my car. The reason he asked me this was to respond to my question of "When did you radar me?" Well I never saw any light what so ever (he was going north bound as I was heading south) and the only time I ever remember going 79 was around the same time and area he would have radared me in which I was passing a swerving 18 wheeler that was acting quite drunk and sleepy. I went about 30-40yrds before slowing back down. After politely responding to the officer and being sent on my merry way I replayed the events and do not think that either a.) I was the one he caught seeing as I never saw the spotlight hit me in my face and cab of my car and/or b.) if I was that individual I felt I had a right to accelerate to safely pass an unsafe truck and trailer.

Sooo...Im asking for advice from anyone who knows how to successfully make a case and successfully contest a speeding ticket assuming the officer shows up in court? Thanks



edit - typo. I promise it was a 19 wheeler! Im not as think as you drunk I am occifer
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:48:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:52:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 3:52:26 PM EDT by motown_steve]
I always like to take an extra glass out of the glove box and invite the officer to have a belt with me.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:52:55 PM EDT
Pay it. If speed for whatever reason you are still speeding.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:53:05 PM EDT
19 wheeler?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:53:58 PM EDT
If you did it, be a man and take your punishment... this country is going to shit because people try to use slick lawyers tricks to avoid personal responsibility. Just my 2 cents worth.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:55:49 PM EDT
whoa thanks
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:57:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Pay it. If speed for whatever reason you are still speeding.



Understandable as well as the other gentlemens passionate post, but I thought legally you had a right to accelerate to pass a vehicle?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:57:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
If you did it, be a man and take your punishment... this country is going to shit because people try to use slick lawyers tricks to avoid personal responsibility. Just my 2 cents worth.



No, this country is going to shit because everyone wants the government to meet all of their needs for housing, health care, food, clothing, heat and protection.

Fighting a traffic ticket in court (even if you lose the case) can mean the difference between paying a one time fine or paying an on going fine in terms of insurance premiums that went up because of points that went on your license.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:58:05 PM EDT
act incredibly gay, claim discrimination
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:58:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
whoa thanks



Not comeing down on ya, but if you speed, just pay it. Its TX, do the deferred payment thing, and if not ticket for 3 months, it doesnt go on your record.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:58:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 3:59:50 PM EDT by falaholic1]
Dont go back for a few years. Worked for me.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:59:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Pay it. If speed for whatever reason you are still speeding.



Understandable as well as the other gentlemens passionate post, but I thought legally you had a right to accelerate to pass a vehicle?



Accelerate all you want, but if you go over the posted speed limit, its speeding. Stupid yeah, but hey.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:00:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
If you did it, be a man and take your punishment... this country is going to shit because people try to use slick lawyers tricks to avoid personal responsibility. Just my 2 cents worth.



No, this country is going to shit because everyone wants the government to meet all of their needs for housing, health care, food, clothing, heat and protection.

Fighting a traffic ticket in court (even if you lose the case) can mean the difference between paying a one time fine or paying an on going fine in terms of insurance premiums that went up because of points that went on your license.

- heaven forbid someone take responsibility for their actions.

Damn, and i wasnt going to get in involved in another one of these "get me out of a ticket" threads.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:01:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Damn, and i wasnt going to get in involved in another one of these "get me out of a ticket" threads.



so just have fun and start giving bad humorous advice
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:02:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
If you did it, be a man and take your punishment... this country is going to shit because people try to use slick lawyers tricks to avoid personal responsibility. Just my 2 cents worth.



No, this country is going to shit because everyone wants the government to meet all of their needs for housing, health care, food, clothing, heat and protection.

Fighting a traffic ticket in court (even if you lose the case) can mean the difference between paying a one time fine or paying an on going fine in terms of insurance premiums that went up because of points that went on your license.

- heaven forbid someone take responsibility for their actions.

Damn, and i wasnt going to get in involved in another one of these "get me out of a ticket" threads.



Speeds are WAY too low on the highways. Who cares if he was doing 79? Was he killing someone?

I'd try to get out of it too. There's no reason for it.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:04:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:

Speeds are WAY too low on the highways. Who cares if he was doing 79? Was he killing someone?

I'd try to get out of it too. There's no reason for it.



No reason for following the posted speed limit. I speed like crazy, but if I get busted I get busted and pay. Also, th LAW cares if he was going 79, and well, they count.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:07:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 4:16:36 PM EDT by JustinOK34]

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Pay it. If speed for whatever reason you are still speeding.



Understandable as well as the other gentlemens passionate post, but I thought legally you had a right to accelerate to pass a vehicle?



Accelerate all you want, but if you go over the posted speed limit, its speeding. Stupid yeah, but hey.



I read on ARFCOM that if you're in the fast lane, you can go however fast you want. It doesn't matter what the posted limit is.

I got a speeding ticket in N TX (east of Amarillo). 81 in a 70. $168.

Edit-TX Highway Patrol got me, too.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:08:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 4:08:40 PM EDT by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
If you did it, be a man and take your punishment... this country is going to shit because people try to use slick lawyers tricks to avoid personal responsibility. Just my 2 cents worth.



No, this country is going to shit because everyone wants the government to meet all of their needs for housing, health care, food, clothing, heat and protection.

Fighting a traffic ticket in court (even if you lose the case) can mean the difference between paying a one time fine or paying an on going fine in terms of insurance premiums that went up because of points that went on your license.

- heaven forbid someone take responsibility for their actions.




You're right, what was I thinking?

Be a man, pay the fine so the cop doesn't have to show up in court, the city get's their money and the insurance company can jack your premiums through the roof, all in the name of enforcing and arbitrary speed limit.



You go ahead and bear the full brunt of the legal system. Me, I'm going to try and get out of it by paying the least amount of money possible.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:09:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
I read on ARFCOM that if you're in the fast lane, you can go however fast you want. It doesn't matter what the posted limit is.




Someone posted somethign VERY wrong.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:11:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:

Speeds are WAY too low on the highways. Who cares if he was doing 79? Was he killing someone?

I'd try to get out of it too. There's no reason for it.



No reason for following the posted speed limit. I speed like crazy, but if I get busted I get busted and pay. Also, th LAW cares if he was going 79, and well, they count.



That's very admirable of you.

I sure as hell am not going to just hand over the fine and pay the increased insurance rates without a fight, but you go right on ahead.

Then again, I've never had a speeding ticket.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:18:20 PM EDT
Well Im going to fight becuz I dont think it was right of him to give me a ticket, I would not have been speeding for 40yrds had there not been a drunk/sleepy/swurving 18 wheeler in the other lane, and some of my lane too.

One more question, lets assume this isnt good enough and I lose the case, can I still decided to do the defensive driving bit instead of paying or does that option disappear when I decide to fight?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:18:35 PM EDT

After politely responding to the officer and being sent on my merry way


What he did not beat you or take you to jail for reckless driving! What is this country coming to. Fight it all the way, the courts love it - they will respect you more the next time you show up. And the trooper will have more respect for you the next time he sees you driving. I'm sure he will think twice before pulling you over again. Also don't forget when you pay your max. fine, after being found guilty, to tell the court clerk just what you think of the judge, trooper and the system in general. That will show them.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:30:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:

One more question, lets assume this isnt good enough and I lose the case, can I still decided to do the defensive driving bit instead of paying or does that option disappear when I decide to fight?

- depends on location. Around here you can often do a driving school, and pay the fine, then recieve a PJC after completion of the course.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:31:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 4:31:32 PM EDT by DScott]

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
Well Im going to fight becuz I dont think it was right of him to give me a ticket, I would not have been speeding for 40yrds had there not been a drunk/sleepy/swurving 18 wheeler in the other lane, and some of my lane too.

One more question, lets assume this isnt good enough and I lose the case, can I still decided to do the defensive driving bit instead of paying or does that option disappear when I decide to fight?



Just make sure and use that line in court. It'll make your visit with the judge very brief. You could probably get a ride back to work and finish out the day.

He might just tell you that you could have slowed down and backed off until it was safe (and legal) to pass. That's assuming he tells you anything at all, other than how much your NEW fine will be.

Speeding is against the law. There are really NO good reasons you can give a judge for speeding that will get you out of it.

You speed, you break the law. You get cuaght, you pay. End of story, pretty much.

Have fun storming the castle fighting your ticket!



Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:22:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
I read on ARFCOM that if you're in the fast lane, you can go however fast you want. It doesn't matter what the posted limit is.




Someone posted somethign VERY wrong.



Holy Moly - that must be the first time that ever happened here!!
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:24:50 PM EDT
They just wont your money, they will get it
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:58:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:I felt I had a right to accelerate to safely pass an unsafe truck and trailer.



Passing a swerving vehicle just does not seem safe. Better to stay behind it.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:00:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 10:01:15 PM EDT by FieroLoki]

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:I felt I had a right to accelerate to safely pass an unsafe truck and trailer.



Passing a swerving vehicle just does not seem safe. Better to stay behind it.



I just saw that. Yeah that does sound weird to pass an unsafe truck... Hmmmm, not something I would have done. He could have swerved into causing a bad accident.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:03:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Pay it. If speed for whatever reason you are still speeding.



Understandable as well as the other gentlemens passionate post, but I thought legally you had a right to accelerate to pass a vehicle?



Yes, as long as you don't violate the speed limit. If you have to go over the speed limit to pass someone, that means they were going the speed limit, and you shouldn't have passed.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:23:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Pay it. If speed for whatever reason you are still speeding.



Why should he?

Merely driving over the speed limit is not illegal in Texas.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:35:34 AM EDT
Okay here is some advice.

If you want to fight it obviously you should plead not guilty and request a trial by jury.

Here is a cool link with speed limit laws of various states.
www.mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html

Texas is one of the few states where merely driving over the speed limit is not illegal.

www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/TN/content/htm/tn.007.00.000545.00.htm#545.351.00


§ 545.351. MAXIMUM SPEED REQUIREMENT. (a) An operator
may not drive at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent
under the circumstances then existing.



What is illegal is driving at an unreasonable speed.

But the prosecutor will try to use the fact that you were driving over the speed limit as evidence that your speed wasnt reasonable.


§ 545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in
excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another
provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed
is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.



Hell as long as traffic allows it I think most people will agree that atleast 10mph over the speed limit if not more is reasonable. What was the speed limit where you were at? 70?

IMO police who give out tickets for anything under 15mph over the limit are just trying for easy money for people who wont fight it.

I've gotten 3 speeding tickets for going about that much over in my 7 years of driving. I paid off the first one because I was young and naieve. I later learned what the law was and then requested a trial by jury for the 2nd two that I got and the prosecutor decided not to take it trial. I didnt ask why but I'm sure it was because they were afraid of losing and knowing that it would have cost them more to pay a jury than for what the ticket would have got them anyways.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:38:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Pay it. If speed for whatever reason you are still speeding.



Why should he?

Merely driving over the speed limit is not illegal in Texas.



Tell that to the cop next time you get pulled over for speeding.

I have heard that argument for years, and it doesnt mean shit to a judge.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:44:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Tell that to the cop next time you get pulled over for speeding.



Why should I? It would be pointless. I've always been respectful to the LEOs who have pulled me over and will probably continue to do so, however that doesnt mean jack shit, most have already made up thier mind and nothing you can say can change that. Better to just accept the ticket and fight it in court.


I have heard that argument for years, and it doesnt mean shit to a judge.


Who cares. Better to have a trial by jury anyways.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:56:55 AM EDT
Texas should be easy to get out of:

1. there are no absolute speed limits in Texas unless you are a commercial driver
2. Texas law states that your speed must be "reasonable and prudent"
3. however is it prima facie evidence that you were speeding if you go faster than the posted limit (even 0.001 faster)
4. prima facie means that you might be able to beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride...in other words you got a ticket and you have the option to appear in court and fight it
5. to demonstrate reasonable and prudent you must factor in all aspects - driving conditions(sunny, wet, sand, traffic, etc), the condition of your car (brakes, etc)
6. lawyer up


and remember this - if it is raining, snowing, etc - the posted speed limit doesn't mean dick - the cop can ticket you for not being reasonable and prudent even if you are going 1/2 the posted limit....
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:58:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 2:58:53 AM EDT by mikejohnson]
damn I was about to post the law...didn't see OFFascist's post....
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:00:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:

Originally Posted By OFFascist:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Pay it. If speed for whatever reason you are still speeding.



Why should he?

Merely driving over the speed limit is not illegal in Texas.



Tell that to the cop next time you get pulled over for speeding.

I have heard that argument for years, and it doesnt mean shit to a judge.



He can tell the cop that all he wants - the state gives the cop the right to ticket anyway because of the prima facie clause - PF means "before closer inspection"....so you get the ticket but it leaves it open for fighting in court

Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:52:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: - heaven forbid someone take responsibility for their actions.

Heaven forbid someone exercise his rights to the full extent because it might inconvenience the powers-that-be.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:03:33 AM EDT
It clearly say, right there in your Texas laws link, that Texas does have speed limits:


Text of subsec. (b) as amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 663,
§ 2 and Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 739, § 1
(b) Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower
speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds
are lawful
:
(1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street
other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley;
(2) 70 miles per hour in daytime and 65 miles per hour
in nighttime
if the vehicle is a passenger car, motorcycle,
passenger car or light truck towing a trailer bearing a vessel, as
defined by Section 31.003, Parks and Wildlife Code, that is less
than 26 feet in length, passenger car or light truck towing a
trailer or semitrailer used primarily to transport a motorcycle, or
passenger car or light truck towing a trailer or semitrailer
designed and used primarily to transport dogs or livestock, on a
highway numbered by this state or the United States outside an urban
district, including a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road;




and further down, it says here:


(d) Except as provided by Subsection (h), the commission may
not:
(1) modify the rules established by Section 545.351(b);
(2) establish a speed limit of more than 70 miles per hour;



Subsection H seems to say they can raise it to 75 in some places, but that's still a limit.

I don't get it. How can Texas NOT have speed limits?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:04:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: - heaven forbid someone take responsibility for their actions.

Heaven forbid someone exercise his rights to the full extent because it might inconvenience the powers-that-be.



waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­


typical response
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:10:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 6:10:58 AM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: - heaven forbid someone take responsibility for their actions.

Heaven forbid someone exercise his rights to the full extent because it might inconvenience the powers-that-be.



waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­


typical response


Typical response of someone who's beaten the rap by questioning the physics of radar beam propagation around curves in court.

Not of all of us non-cops are as stupid as you seem to think.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:29:22 AM EDT
Advice from a LEO: Traffic court is in reality REVENUE COURT. Most judges are not concerned with your guilt innocence, just your money. In 11 years I have seen a very small number of individuals beat a ticket in court, it usally involves a HUGE error on the part of the officer. Trust me the judge has heard "it wasn't me, musta been another car" defense 1,000,000,000 times, might want to come up with a better defense than that!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:29:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DScott:
It clearly say, right there in your Texas laws link, that Texas does have speed limits:



Yes, Texas does have speed limits.

However nothing you posted says that driving faster than said speed limits is illegal.

That part that you highlighted in red that says "the following speeds
are lawful" lists some lawful speeds, it does not say what speeds are unlawful.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:31:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CQB27:
Advice from a LEO: Traffic court is in reality REVENUE COURT. Most judges are not concerned with your guilt innocence, just your money. In 11 years I have seen a very small number of individuals beat a ticket in court, it usally involves a HUGE error on the part of the officer. Trust me the judge has heard "it wasn't me, musta been another car" defense 1,000,000,000 times, might want to come up with a better defense than that!



That is why you ask for a jury trial.

We still have those in Texas.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:32:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:


Not of all of us non-cops are as stupid as you seem to think.

- the only person refering to anyone as being stupid in this thread is you.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:39:20 AM EDT
Tell the judge that your guns were lonely and you were rushing home to pet them. I'm sure he'll let you off.

If you were going 79 and you seem to acknowledge you were around that time while passing a vehicle, about the only excuse you might use is that the vehicle ahead of you was speeding up and slowing down constantly and you wanted to pass safely and quickly.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:41:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 6:43:48 AM EDT by CQB27]

Originally Posted By OFFascist:

Originally Posted By CQB27:
Advice from a LEO: Traffic court is in reality REVENUE COURT. Most judges are not concerned with your guilt innocence, just your money. In 11 years I have seen a very small number of individuals beat a ticket in court, it usally involves a HUGE error on the part of the officer. Trust me the judge has heard "it wasn't me, musta been another car" defense 1,000,000,000 times, might want to come up with a better defense than that!



That is why you ask for a jury trial.

We still have those in Texas.



Good luck with that! Remember when it's over and the jury found you guilty because you cost them a days wage for the $20 buck jury fee just to listen to "musta been sombody else", the judge still gets to sentence you. You are likely to see the MAX (fine, court costs, etc).

All I was trying to say was if he really wants to contest the ticket, don't ust that defense. Now I'm done talking to you

Edit spelling
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:47:53 AM EDT
In Texas, if you get charged with driving a vehicle too fast, tell the judge that you are not guilty because you guide a car and drive a team.

That works, no kidding, my dad's cousin said so.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:48:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
If you did it, be a man and take your punishment... this country is going to shit because people try to use slick lawyers tricks to avoid personal responsibility. Just my 2 cents worth.

I take full responsibility for my actions, including speeding.

My problem is that I don't agree with the laws against speeding. So if I am caught, I will try to fight it to get out of the insanely high ticket cost and moving violation points.

Don't confuse not taking responsibility with not agreeing with the law.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:21:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:

Originally Posted By DScott:
It clearly say, right there in your Texas laws link, that Texas does have speed limits:



Yes, Texas does have speed limits.

However nothing you posted says that driving faster than said speed limits is illegal.

That part that you highlighted in red that says "the following speeds
are lawful" lists some lawful speeds, it does not say what speeds are unlawful.



Driving over the maximum speed limit is unlawful, isn't it? That's 65, 70, or 75 now apparently.

What does unlawful mean?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:30:00 AM EDT
Well you should have just took the ticket and said nothing.

Find the fuse that operates your speedometer and burn it in two. Toyotas have fuses for the speedometer I cannot speak for other vehicles.

Then take your vehicle to a mechanic and have him fix it and put on the invoice: " speedometer was inop due to bad fuse".

Take that to a lawyer and have him fight it for you. It will cost $$ but cheaper than paying the increased insurance fees.

You will only pay a improper equipment fines(same or more as the speeding ticket) and you wont get any points on your record.

Good luck and for god sake slow down

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