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Posted: 12/23/2005 12:41:34 PM EDT

Would have been easy to do, instead of baracading themselves in the compound. They could have dug some concealed fighting postitions behind where the ATF was going to stand in front of the compound.

Imagine if the Davidians had fighting positions with 10 guys or just 10 to 12 shooters behind the ATF. I doubt any of the ATF agents would have come out a live. And even if the Davidians had covered 2 sides of the building with 6 people in fighting holes covering the building, the ATF would have been screwed...BIG TIME!

Koresh got tipped that the ATF was coming. And they had time to prepare ahead of time, then when the time came, conceal their back up out side before the ATF raid went down.

So why do you think the Davidians didn't cover themselves better? Didn't they have any former military people in the compound?

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:45:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 12:51:11 PM EDT by NonConformist]
Because they didn't instigate the fight, the ATF shot first. IMO The branch Davidians were acting in self defense.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:52:00 PM EDT
I admit to being ignorant of the layout of the compound, but,
I think that

1- They'd have to be able to dig them under surviellance.
2- They can't live in the holes, so, they'd have to get to them without being seen.
3- They were capable of being brainwashed by Koresh, so, how tactically oriented could they be?

Just my take.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:56:57 PM EDT
They were probably not skilled shooters or new to take cover you might be surprised how many stand out in the open in a gunfight, they tend not to do it twice. How many davidians died in the initial assault? While I don't really sympathize with the brainwashed sheep I do not really give a shit what happens to ATF either.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:06:45 PM EDT
Aw shit.....
this one is gonna go downhill fast.


I predict 3 pages and a lock.



Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:10:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 1:12:46 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I admit to being ignorant of the layout of the compound, but,
I think that

1- They'd have to be able to dig them under surviellance.
2- They can't live in the holes, so, they'd have to get to them without being seen.
3- They were capable of being brainwashed by Koresh, so, how tactically oriented could they be?

Just my take.




That's why I ask. If anybody had a better jist of the situation with regards to my question.

1 - I would have thought, "IF" Koresh kept preaching about doomsday and making that bus bunker. Why didn't they make some fighting posititions with relation to the defense of the compound. He kept talking about it, but looks like they dropped the ball on the actuall carrying out of what to do when "doomsday" actually happened. They could have made these positions before they were put under surviellance.

2 - Not saying that. They didn't have to live in the holes. When "whom" ever tipped Koresh off that the ATF was coming, you'd think they would have sent some shooters to the holes. After seeing all of the video and listening to all of the people involved, I doubt the ATF actually had someone watching the compound "right" before they went out for the raid.

3 - They had some doctors and such in the compound. There were a lot of "smart" dumb people that he brainwashed. They killed 4 ATF agents, so they couldn't have been, that, lame. Does anyone know if there were any former military Branch Dividians? Basic fighting positions and tactics were taught at Basic Training, when I went through, I doubt that it could have changed that much.

*2 - And even "if" the ATF had seen some people go out to fighting positions, the people in the holes would have put up a better defense against the ATF. The ATF trained for the compound assault, not fighting out in the open. The ATF would have been sitting ducks.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:13:42 PM EDT

Basic fighting positions and tactics were taught at Basic Training, when I went through, I doubt that it could have changed that much.

- and how many people that arent in infantry jobs can remember how to construct them after they live AIT let alone after leaving the service.


BTW, NTSA
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:14:40 PM EDT
They didn't ambush because they weren't violent people.. It's pretty simple really.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:16:47 PM EDT
Koresh never intended on surviving a fight.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:19:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 1:21:31 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Basic fighting positions and tactics were taught at Basic Training, when I went through, I doubt that it could have changed that much.

- and how many people that arent in infantry jobs can remember how to construct them after they live AIT let alone after leaving the service.


BTW, NTSA




Quite a few. I was in for 12 years and I know a lot of former military that still know a lot of basics.



Originally Posted By NonConformist:
Because they didn't instigate the fight, the ATF shot first. IMO The branch Davidians were acting in self defense.



Just because they "acted" in self defense, doesn't mean they wouldn't have been acting in self defense by using fighting holes during the fight. When the ATF started shooting, the branch dividians would still have been acting in self defense if they had popped up after the ATF shot. Granted, it would look like an ambush, but they still would have acted in self defense...if the ATF had fired the first shot like they did. And then "maybe" some of those 80 branh dividians may have been spared their lives.

Or do you think Koresh wanted to be a martyr and make his followers martyrs too?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:20:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
They didn't ambush because they weren't violent people.. It's pretty simple really.



I can agree with you on that. But with Koresh's preaching about a fight with the devil's forces at the compound and doomsday, you would think they would have prepared better if they really believed that it would come to a fight on their property.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:22:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I admit to being ignorant of the layout of the compound, but,
I think that

1- They'd have to be able to dig them under surviellance.
2- They can't live in the holes, so, they'd have to get to them without being seen.
3- They were capable of being brainwashed by Koresh, so, how tactically oriented could they be?

Just my take.




That's why I ask. If anybody had a better jist of the situation with regards to my question.

1 - I would have thought, "IF" Koresh kept preaching about doomsday and making that bus bunker. Why didn't they make some fighting posititions with relation to the defense of the compound. He kept talking about it, but looks like they dropped the ball on the actuall carrying out of what to do when "doomsday" actually happened. They could have made these positions before they were put under surviellance.

2 - Not saying that. They didn't have to live in the holes. When "whom" ever tipped Koresh off that the ATF was coming, you'd think they would have sent some shooters to the holes. After seeing all of the video and listening to all of the people involved, I doubt the ATF actually had someone watching the compound "right" before they went out for the raid.

3 - They had some doctors and such in the compound. There were a lot of "smart" dumb people that he brainwashed. They killed 4 ATF agents, so they couldn't have been, that, lame. Does anyone know if there were any former military Branch Dividians? Basic fighting positions and tactics were taught at Basic Training, when I went through, I doubt that it could have changed that much.

*2 - And even "if" the ATF had seen some people go out to fighting positions, the people in the holes would have put up a better defense against the ATF. The ATF trained for the compound assault, not fighting out in the open. The ATF would have been sitting ducks.



Well, also, they'd have to count on the ATF not spotting the bunkers on any recons, or
the approach.

I promise you they had the place under surveillence all the way up to the final assault.

I'd venture to say if they had bunkers, the /gov would've reacted with evenmore force than they did.

They'd've been far better off hardening the structure it'self.

The problem with defending a point target is that you are bound to the target.

The land around Waco is pretty flat, and, clear. I think what you're asking is kinda a moot point.

I don't think it could've been carried off.

Armored vehicles vs. small arms doesn't play in the favor of the latter.

AFA manageing to kill/wound ATF agents.....I'm not impressed. If you are prepped for a dynamic entry, and, determined to hold your ground, knocking off a few entry team members isn't really that difficult. Massed fire at the point of assault.

BTW...I've got zero sympathy for either side in that fiasco.

Brainwashed lunatic sheep vs an out of control .gov SWAT team lead by
Janet Reno
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:37:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I admit to being ignorant of the layout of the compound, but,
I think that

1- They'd have to be able to dig them under surviellance.
2- They can't live in the holes, so, they'd have to get to them without being seen.
3- They were capable of being brainwashed by Koresh, so, how tactically oriented could they be?

Just my take.




That's why I ask. If anybody had a better jist of the situation with regards to my question.

1 - I would have thought, "IF" Koresh kept preaching about doomsday and making that bus bunker. Why didn't they make some fighting posititions with relation to the defense of the compound. He kept talking about it, but looks like they dropped the ball on the actuall carrying out of what to do when "doomsday" actually happened. They could have made these positions before they were put under surviellance.

2 - Not saying that. They didn't have to live in the holes. When "whom" ever tipped Koresh off that the ATF was coming, you'd think they would have sent some shooters to the holes. After seeing all of the video and listening to all of the people involved, I doubt the ATF actually had someone watching the compound "right" before they went out for the raid.

3 - They had some doctors and such in the compound. There were a lot of "smart" dumb people that he brainwashed. They killed 4 ATF agents, so they couldn't have been, that, lame. Does anyone know if there were any former military Branch Dividians? Basic fighting positions and tactics were taught at Basic Training, when I went through, I doubt that it could have changed that much.

*2 - And even "if" the ATF had seen some people go out to fighting positions, the people in the holes would have put up a better defense against the ATF. The ATF trained for the compound assault, not fighting out in the open. The ATF would have been sitting ducks.



Well, also, they'd have to count on the ATF not spotting the bunkers on any recons, or
the approach.

I promise you they had the place under surveillence all the way up to the final assault.

I'd venture to say if they had bunkers, the /gov would've reacted with evenmore force than they did.

They'd've been far better off hardening the structure it'self.

The problem with defending a point target is that you are bound to the target.

The land around Waco is pretty flat, and, clear. I think what you're asking is kinda a moot point.

I don't think it could've been carried off.

Armored vehicles vs. small arms doesn't play in the favor of the latter.

AFA manageing to kill/wound ATF agents.....I'm not impressed. If you are prepped for a dynamic entry, and, determined to hold your ground, knocking off a few entry team members isn't really that difficult. Massed fire at the point of assault.

BTW...I've got zero sympathy for either side in that fiasco.

Brainwashed lunatic sheep vs an out of control .gov SWAT team lead by
Janet Reno




While I agree with some of your point, I do have a GREAT deal of sympathy for the children that were murdered. Koresh AND the government have to bear the responsibility for that. And unfortunately the people in the government were protected from bearing that responsibility.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:41:40 PM EDT
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:45:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



Lots of those around here.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:46:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

- and how many people that arent in infantry jobs can remember how to construct them after they live AIT let alone after leaving the service.


BTW, NTSA

Most people also forget about grammer after leaving grade school.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:47:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Surf:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

- and how many people that arent in infantry jobs can remember how to construct them after they live AIT let alone after leaving the service.


BTW, NTSA

Most people also forget about grammer after leaving grade school.

- got anything to actually add to the discussion?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:48:55 PM EDT
He was thinking of the kids?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:56:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 10mmFan:
He was thinking of the kids?








And FYI, tc556 guy...only a government koolaid drinker would say something like that.

I am asking "why" do you think Koresh left out this tactic in the fight.

AND FYI...the government was JUST as much at fault as Koresh. Koresh was WRONG and a NUT JOB. But the government started it by attacking the compound instead of arresting him in town where there wouldn't have been a fight.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:57:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



Lots of those around here.



Lots of them on the net. I would hope most of them would stay over at Frugals or AW.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:58:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



Lots of those around here.



Lots of them on the net. I would hope most of them would stay over at Frugals or AW.




Why? Because you don't want people to use their 1st Amendment Right?


Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:58:28 PM EDT

But the government started it by attacking the compound instead of arresting him in town where there wouldn't have been a fight.

- There can always be a fight when you are arresting somone. Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:59:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I admit to being ignorant of the layout of the compound, but,
I think that

1- They'd have to be able to dig them under surviellance.
2- They can't live in the holes, so, they'd have to get to them without being seen.
3- They were capable of being brainwashed by Koresh, so, how tactically oriented could they be?

Just my take.


Not to mention, even after repelling the first raid they would then need to be able to make their way back into the compound or be picked off by follow on or containment forces.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:59:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 2:00:45 PM EDT by NCPatrolAR]

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



Lots of those around here.



Lots of them on the net. I would hope most of them would stay over at Frugals or AW.




Why? Because you don't want people to use their 1st Amendment Right?



Or he doesnt want to see countless threads rehashing Waco... wait, that's already happened here.



Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:01:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Surf:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

- and how many people that arent in infantry jobs can remember how to construct them after they live AIT let alone after leaving the service.


BTW, NTSA

Most people also forget about grammer after leaving grade school.

grammar
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:01:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Or he doesnt want to see countless threads rehashing Waco... wait, that's already happened here.


Thats correct.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:01:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

I am asking "why" do you think Koresh left out this tactic in the fight.




Becasue it wasn't practical, nor was it tactically sound, as far as I can tell.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:03:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



Lots of those around here.



Lots of them on the net. I would hope most of them would stay over at Frugals or AW.




Why? Because you don't want people to use their 1st Amendment Right?



Or he doesnt want to see countless threads rehashing Waco... wait, that's already happened here.







Then he doesn't have to click on it.

Guess cops can't handle it when people talk about things they are sick of. Just like the TV, if you don't like it, turn it off.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:04:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By lippo:

I am asking "why" do you think Koresh left out this tactic in the fight.




Becasue it wasn't practical, nor was it tactically sound, as far as I can tell.




So you have studied it? Just asking, because I would really love to hear your input if you have.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:07:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



Lots of those around here.



Lots of them on the net. I would hope most of them would stay over at Frugals or AW.




Why? Because you don't want people to use their 1st Amendment Right?



Or he doesnt want to see countless threads rehashing Waco... wait, that's already happened here.







Then he doesn't have to click on it.

Guess cops can't handle it when people talk about things they are sick of. Just like the TV, if you don't like it, turn it off.



Most of these threads are like train-wrecks or retarded people falling down during the 100 meter at the Special Olympics... you just have to watch
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:08:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Then he doesn't have to click on it.

Guess cops can't handle it when people talk about things they are sick of. Just like the TV, if you don't like it, turn it off.


I would hope people would have more sense than to stoop to conspiracy theories.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:09:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



You think the BATF has such a good track record? How many ATF agents died at OKC again?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:10:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Then he doesn't have to click on it.

Guess cops can't handle it when people talk about things they are sick of. Just like the TV, if you don't like it, turn it off.


I would hope people would have more sense than to stoop to conspiracy theories.




So what conspiracy theory was in my question? NONE!

You just don't like people "talking" bad about the government or LEO's.

Give it up, you are just being overly sensitive.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:11:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



Lots of those around here.



Lots of them on the net. I would hope most of them would stay over at Frugals or AW.



I shouldn't say it...no, I'm not going to say it...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:12:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



You think the BATF has such a good track record? How many ATF agents died at OKC again?



and here comes the tinfoil bearers
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:12:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
Because they didn't instigate the fight, the ATF shot first. IMO The branch Davidians were acting in self defense.



A grand jury agreed with you.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:12:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Then he doesn't have to click on it.

Guess cops can't handle it when people talk about things they are sick of. Just like the TV, if you don't like it, turn it off.


I would hope people would have more sense than to stoop to conspiracy theories.




So what conspiracy theory was in my question? NONE!

You just don't like people "talking" bad about the government or LEO's.

Give it up, you are just being overly sensitive.



The whole concept of David Koresh being a poor helpless guy who was set upon by a big evil meanie government is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.
I was not replying strictly to YOUR post.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:14:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Most of these threads are like train-wrecks or retarded people falling down during the 100 meter at the Special Olympics... you just have to watch



quoted before edited...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:15:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



You think the BATF has such a good track record? How many ATF agents died at OKC again?



and here comes the tinfoil bearers



I know some kids got killed...seems to happen all the time around ATF operations...how many agents again were killed in OKC?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:16:19 PM EDT
Why not ask "why didn't he just walk out"?
That, whether you like it or not, is how the system works.

It is inconcievable that anyone would say things like "why not arrest him in town where there would not be a fight" and then say "the BD's weren't violent" "no way the BD's fired first". Those two thought processes are not reconcilable.

As this has been hashed and rehashed no one knows who did what first......because NO ONE is going to admit to it......NEITHER side.

There is MORE than enough blame to go around, regardless of what your opinion is of the .gov or the BD's.

OH.....IBTL
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:17:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

But the government started it by attacking the compound instead of arresting him in town where there wouldn't have been a fight.

- There can always be a fight when you are arresting somone. Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.



Agreed.
Assuming you are in a war zone, when you are in fact going to serve a search warrent is one of those fuck ups.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:18:25 PM EDT
He didn't set up an ambush for the same reason they STOPPED firing and allowed the ATF to pull back.

They weren't trying to waste everyone. If the Davidians wanted them all dead, they had them.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:18:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Most of these threads are like train-wrecks or retarded people falling down during the 100 meter at the Special Olympics... you just have to watch



quoted before edited...



No need to quote that... I have no intention of editing anything. Your tinfoil might be giving you mixed signals about that though.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:18:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Or he doesnt want to see countless threads rehashing Waco... wait, that's already happened here.


Thats correct.



Sore subject seeing that the boys in blue did some bad, bad things?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:19:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Most of these threads are like train-wrecks or retarded people falling down during the 100 meter at the Special Olympics... you just have to watch



quoted before edited...



No need to quote that... I have no intention of editing anything. Your tinfoil might be giving you mixed signals about that though.



It just shows you as an asshole...you like to make fun of mentally challenged ppl? Wouldn't that make you self hating??
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:20:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Agreed.
Assuming you are in a war zone, when you are in fact going to serve a search warrent is one of those fuck ups.

- how many warrant services have you served on suspects that are supposed to be in possesion of numerous weapons, to include select fire ones and possibly hand grenades?

The level of the threat you may encounter dictates your response.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:21:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Most of these threads are like train-wrecks or retarded people falling down during the 100 meter at the Special Olympics... you just have to watch



quoted before edited...



No need to quote that... I have no intention of editing anything. Your tinfoil might be giving you mixed signals about that though.



It just shows you as an asshole...you like to make fun of mentally challenged ppl? Wouldn't that make you self hating??

- oh I'm so hurt. Seems I offneded one of the supposed "bleeding hearts" around here. Take your false "offended" feelings elsewhere.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:22:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Then he doesn't have to click on it.

Guess cops can't handle it when people talk about things they are sick of. Just like the TV, if you don't like it, turn it off.


I would hope people would have more sense than to stoop to conspiracy theories.




So what conspiracy theory was in my question? NONE!

You just don't like people "talking" bad about the government or LEO's.

Give it up, you are just being overly sensitive.



The whole concept of David Koresh being a poor helpless guy who was set upon by a big evil meanie government is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.
I was not replying strictly to YOUR post.




I call on you.


And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.




You started by calling ME an appoligist because I didn't say "Koresh ambushed the ATF".

Looks like you may be showing your "cop" colors...by back tracking and lying your way out of the position you have put yourself in. Ever do that in court?

Or would you like to explain yourself further?

You may not agree with me on this subject, but at least I didn't start calling people names and trying to disrupt an honest question.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:22:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
He didn't set up an ambush for the same reason they STOPPED firing and allowed the ATF to pull back.

They weren't trying to waste everyone. If the Davidians wanted them all dead, they had them.



+1...The ATF liked to go on and on about how many full auto assault rifles they supposedly had, and they did have 2 .50 cal. Barrets...so, if the BDs were so bad, how's come they stopped? Were they scared? Not likely...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:23:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 2:25:52 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
And here all these years I thought they HAD ambushed the officers. If it wasn't an ambush, I don't know what you'd call it.
"ATF shot first". Yeah,rrriiiggghhhtt. Only a Koresh apologist would really think that.



Exactly, it was just like that time Vickie Weaver attacked Lon Horiuchi armed with a baby. Only his skill and training saved his life that day. These guys are just trying to protect themselves while doing a difficult job. Shooting dogs and kids in the back is hard work.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:25:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Most of these threads are like train-wrecks or retarded people falling down during the 100 meter at the Special Olympics... you just have to watch



quoted before edited...



No need to quote that... I have no intention of editing anything. Your tinfoil might be giving you mixed signals about that though.



It just shows you as an asshole...you like to make fun of mentally challenged ppl? Wouldn't that make you self hating??

- oh I'm so hurt. Seems I offneded one of the supposed "bleeding hearts" around here. Take your false "offended" feelings elsewhere.



Why would you be hurt? You come across as a little man who got a badge to get back for all those times your head was dumped in a toilet as a youth. We are all impressed Mr. Patrolman. You don't need to impress us with your tough talk...
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