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Posted: 12/23/2005 12:38:55 PM EDT
I've had my "kitchen table" FFL for 20+ years. No problems, just a routine trace for ATF on occasion. Today I found out that a pistol I sold 3 weeks ago was loaned to a guy who used it to commit suicide. I sold 2 handguns, a Taurus .45 revolver and a Taurus 24/7 9mm to a guy at work. Decent guy, long term employee. Did the background check, etc.. Haven't even filed the paperwork yet.

The buyer and another employee were talking last week and the subject of guns came up. My buyer told the other employee about the 2 he had recently purchased. The other employee asked if he could borrow one to try it out. My buyer loaned him the 24/7. This was last Thurs. or Friday. The other guy called in sick Mon., Tues. and Wed. BTW, his wife works by us too. She's the executive secretary. Yesterday AM the guy was found, circumstances unknown, dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Cops came to work and talked with my buyer and the other employees in the department. No one had a hint that this guy was going to do this. I wasn't at work today but got the story from my buyer and the other guys in my office. Looks like the guy may have planned this a week ago.

My buyer asked for his pistol back when the investigation is completed. The cops got kind of stupid about it but agreed to return it eventually. He has the feeling they would rather not give it back, so he's going to be pestering them.

Had a talk with my buyer. We both realize there was nothing we could have done to prevent the suicide. The cops told him the same. We both feel lousy just for being involved.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:40:55 PM EDT
Wow. Sucks.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:42:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By diesel1:
I've had my "kitchen table" FFL for 20+ years. No problems, just a routine trace for ATF on occasion. Today I found out that a pistol I sold 3 weeks ago was loaned to a guy who used it to commit suicide. I sold 2 handguns, a Taurus .45 revolver and a Taurus 24/7 9mm to a guy at work. Decent guy, long term employee. Did the background check, etc.. Haven't even filed the paperwork yet.

The buyer and another employee were talking last week and the subject of guns came up. My buyer told the other employee about the 2 he had recently purchased. The other employee asked if he could borrow one to try it out. My buyer loaned him the 24/7. This was last Thurs. or Friday. The other guy called in sick Mon., Tues. and Wed. BTW, his wife works by us too. She's the executive secretary. Yesterday AM the guy was found, circumstances unknown, dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Cops came to work and talked with my buyer and the other employees in the department. No one had a hint that this guy was going to do this. I wasn't at work today but got the story from my buyer and the other guys in my office. Looks like the guy may have planned this a week ago.

My buyer asked for his pistol back when the investigation is completed. The cops got kind of stupid about it but agreed to return it eventually. He has the feeling they would rather not give it back, so he's going to be pestering them.

Had a talk with my buyer. We both realize there was nothing we could have done to prevent the suicide. The cops told him the same. We both feel lousy just for being involved.



Lucky for the "buyer" he's not in another state.
Some states it's a felony to "loan" a gun to anyone else, believe it not.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:44:02 PM EDT
That does suck. I don't even know if I'd want it back if that was my buddy that offed himself.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:44:36 PM EDT
I'm no expert on the subject, but I here that most suicide guns end up really messy.

My uncle wanted the shotgun my grandfather used to kill himself until he saw it. They ended up breaking it down and mixing the parts into a bucket of concrete, then threw it into a river.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:45:54 PM EDT
If I were to guess, I'd say it was depression. That seems to be more of a problem this time of year, especially here in the North. I feel it myself, so I understand what it's like. Being dead is forever though.

Had another guy at work do the same after he was involved in a traffic accident a couple of winter ago. Evidently that's all it took to put him over the edge.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:46:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 12:47:26 PM EDT by DLoken]
Ouch. Where in WI are you located by chance? Racine or Kenosha possibly?

And yeah, fuck this weather. It's been like 10 degrees for the last month, and all of a sudden today and tomorrow it's 40 with rain for Christmas.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:52:17 PM EDT
This took place in one of the Southern suburbs of Milwaukee. Here's another thing: the gun owner lives about 20 miles West of town. The suicide guy went all the way out to the owners house to pick up the gun last week. Hard to believe the guy picked up the gun, went home and then shot himself a week later. Took that long to get his nerve up? Could have just as easily changed his mind and gave the gun back. No one would have ever known.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:58:18 PM EDT
I know a gun shop owner in AZ that sold a revolver to a kid who was with his friend a few years back. The kid bought ammo too, and walked out to his car and him and his buddy completed a suicide pact in the car.

Well, my buddy got the revolver back. Not sure if he bought it, the family gave it to him out of remorse or what.

My buddy ended up packing that as his ccw for a time. It still had bite marks on the barrel. I always thought that was hard core to pack a firearm with 2 bodies attached. Takes all kinds.

I had issues about if I ever sold a gun and it was used in a homicide or suicide when I worked at the gun shop. My old boss sold a gun at the shop and the guy attempted it, but couldn't work the firearm, it seems. So it was a failed attempt.

Then again, another buddy packed a Nazi Luger with bodies attached as his ccw for a while.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:00:08 PM EDT
I dont even have a friend that i would feel comfortable borrowing one of my firearms.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:00:08 PM EDT
So I guess one thing to learn here is that if someone wants to try out your firearms, invite them to the range under your supervision from here on.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:00:53 PM EDT
Tis the season
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:03:58 PM EDT
I bought a gun that was used in a suicide. Cleaned up just fine......
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:08:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rtech:
....My buddy ended up packing that as his ccw for a time. It still had bite marks on the barrel. I always thought that was hard core to pack a firearm with 2 bodies attached. Takes all kinds....



"Bite Marks" on a steel barrel? Was one of the guys "Jaws" or something?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:19:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By rtech:
....My buddy ended up packing that as his ccw for a time. It still had bite marks on the barrel. I always thought that was hard core to pack a firearm with 2 bodies attached. Takes all kinds....



"Bite Marks" on a steel barrel? Was one of the guys "Jaws" or something?



I saw it. There were several "marks" indented in the metal 180 degrees from each other and the cops think they did indeed bite down when the bullet went through the muscles in the back of the mouth. Reflex maybe. It's the only explaination. It was strange, and the guys stuck the gun in thier mouths to shoot themselves. Wouldn't have believed it myself if I didn't see it.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:24:32 PM EDT
We both feel lousy just for being involved.



Dont feel like you did anything wrong. Suicide is a selfish act and it was really seflish for the guy to have done that with his buddie's gun.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:26:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By diesel1:
This took place in one of the Southern suburbs of Milwaukee. Here's another thing: the gun owner lives about 20 miles West of town. The suicide guy went all the way out to the owners house to pick up the gun last week. Hard to believe the guy picked up the gun, went home and then shot himself a week later. Took that long to get his nerve up? Could have just as easily changed his mind and gave the gun back. No one would have ever known.



Southern Milwaukee Suburbs, Oak Creek, Cudahy? Where are you located, you sound close for doing transfers :P
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:49:21 PM EDT
I sold a few handguns when I had my FFL. Had one stolen, no crimes though.
While understanding that the perp's though processes were screwed up, it's damm common to borrow a gun to kill yourself with and screw your buddy!
No reason to feel more than a passing sadness that the guy died. .
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:34:02 PM EDT
I'm OK with it and so is the gun owner. The dead guy was only in his 40's. Hate to see anyone go that way. I know a lot of people including myself that suffer from depression and yeah, "tis the season" allright. Don't have any idea what this guys issues were.

The gun owner thought he was helping out a fellow worker and budding shooter. What a let down!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:19:07 PM EDT
The local gun shop here where I live sold a .357 Smith to a kid, who took it to a local park, and blew his head off. The Police gave the gun back the the kid's parents, who then sold it back the the dealer. The dealer sold it with a tag on it, that said test fired only.

I have a couple guns that I am sure have taken lives, and they are WWII battle rifles.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:29:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 4:33:30 PM EDT by captainpooby]
I worked on motorcycles for nearly twenty years and saw a lot of guys get killed on bikes I built or worked on. Nice guys and I felt bad but never for a second did I feel responsible.

ETA: One of those guys was a suicide too. They found his helmet half a mile back of the overpass he ran straight into.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:31:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By diesel1:
I've had my "kitchen table" FFL for 20+ years. No problems, just a routine trace for ATF on occasion. Today I found out that a pistol I sold 3 weeks ago was loaned to a guy who used it to commit suicide. I sold 2 handguns, a Taurus .45 revolver and a Taurus 24/7 9mm to a guy at work. Decent guy, long term employee. Did the background check, etc.. Haven't even filed the paperwork yet.

The buyer and another employee were talking last week and the subject of guns came up. My buyer told the other employee about the 2 he had recently purchased. The other employee asked if he could borrow one to try it out. My buyer loaned him the 24/7. This was last Thurs. or Friday. The other guy called in sick Mon., Tues. and Wed. BTW, his wife works by us too. She's the executive secretary. Yesterday AM the guy was found, circumstances unknown, dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Cops came to work and talked with my buyer and the other employees in the department. No one had a hint that this guy was going to do this. I wasn't at work today but got the story from my buyer and the other guys in my office. Looks like the guy may have planned this a week ago.

My buyer asked for his pistol back when the investigation is completed. The cops got kind of stupid about it but agreed to return it eventually. He has the feeling they would rather not give it back, so he's going to be pestering them.

Had a talk with my buyer. We both realize there was nothing we could have done to prevent the suicide. The cops told him the same. We both feel lousy just for being involved.



Try to let it go. If he wanted to die, he would have found a way. You sold a pistol, trusting in the buyer's common sense. It stops there.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:39:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:41:09 PM EDT
Sad situation, sorry.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:45:28 PM EDT
I wanted a .357 mag but figured I should shoot one before I bought it, the one I rented at the range was used a couple weeks earlier by a guy to off himself. I didn't really care they cleaned it up so you would never know.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:53:35 PM EDT
I cleaned up a gun used in a suicide a while back.. It was kinda a wierd feeling.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:26:51 PM EDT
I have to wonder what was going through the guys mind in the week before he shot himself. Looking at the gun and saying to himself "what if?", "should I?" or "here's a way out"? Was having the gun too tempting for a troubled mind?

He may have done it anyways by some other method. Or he may have bought a gun instead of borrowing one. But going out and buying a gun would indicate a higher level of pre-meditation. Maybe he wasn't really that commited to doing it, but once he had the gun he couldn't resist the urge. Who knows?

I'm not going to let it eat away at me and I don't feel responsible. It's still a lousy feeling, though.

One of my concerns is the anti-gun types would use an incident like this to argue that guns are bad and nobody should have them.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:27:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JDemond:
The local gun shop here where I live sold a .357 Smith to a kid, who took it to a local park, and blew his head off. The Police gave the gun back the the kid's parents, who then sold it back the the dealer. The dealer sold it with a tag on it, that said test fired only.

I have a couple guns that I am sure have taken lives, and they are WWII battle rifles.



I've read on this board that blood can be pretty damaging to the bluing.
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