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Posted: 12/23/2005 11:51:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 11:51:36 AM EDT by TheOtherDave]
Guys,

YesterdayI decided to treat myself to a new gun for Xmas, so I went across town to the East Side of Detroit to Trapper Gun. As I walked in, a pair of gentlemen were finishing up a transaction but the purchaser was delayed(the gun was bought on a CCW permit, but the permit was brand new so the file info provided wasn't updated yet). The conversation got interesting when Trapper mentioned that he has one guy's rifle in his safe and it's been in there for over a year!

Apparently, the guy who bought the rifle was delayed by Instant Check. This went on until the purchaser started digging and not getting anywhere. Eventually, Trapper was told that since he had suffered a stroke a year earlier, that he wasn't competent to own a firearm!!!!

He is suing. When Trapper called the Feds, they told him to sell the man's paid-for rifle! He told the feds that "the rifle belonged to that man and that it will stay in his safe until he comes to pick it up! My shop, My rules!"

Apparently FBI is denying/delaying a lot of Blacks and virtually all Arabics that he calls in-can any other FFL's confirm this? I didn't have any problems..

Dave
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 11:54:26 AM EDT
Do they sell fishing tackle there too, because I think Trapper hooked you. How the hell would NICS ever know a guy had a stroke, and to what degree he may or may not be incapacitated. That story doesn't add up at all.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 11:55:00 AM EDT
Someone remeind me- is there a block for "Race" on the federal form? Seems I recall there is. What would the penalty be for putting down "Eskimo"?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 11:55:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 11:56:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:00:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 12:00:48 PM EDT by TexRdnec]
bullshit.

you can transfer a delay after 5 working days if no response is received from NICS
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:01:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Do they sell fishing tackle there too, because I think Trapper hooked you. How the hell would NICS ever know a guy had a stroke, and to what degree he may or may not be incapacitated. That story doesn't add up at all.




You're in rare form today Dzl
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:04:25 PM EDT
bullshit
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:08:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 12:08:53 PM EDT by metalsaber]

Originally Posted By callgood:
Someone remeind me- is there a block for "Race" on the federal form? Seems I recall there is. What would the penalty be for putting down "Eskimo"?

yes there is Race field on the form.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:10:14 PM EDT
Typical Gunshop fairytale...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:22:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
Someone remeind me- is there a block for "Race" on the federal form? Seems I recall there is. What would the penalty be for putting down "Eskimo"?



the penalty would probably be a 5 day delay while they try to find an eskimo named Ludwig Von Scheizen, Patrick O'Malley, Tyrone Greene, etc.......
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:26:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
bullshit.

you can transfer a delay after 5 working days if no response is received from NICS



I thought it was 3 days.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:30:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By meltdown:
that's just nuts! How would they know he had a stroke ?

so what kind of gun did you get ?




I have no idea how they would know, but with today's data-mining it wouldn't surprise if if they had access to his medical records.

Dave

P.S. Oh, I got a G36 for CCW
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:31:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
Someone remeind me- is there a block for "Race" on the federal form? Seems I recall there is. What would the penalty be for putting down "Eskimo"?



"American Indian or Alaska Native" is one of the options for you to check.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:56:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bookertbab:

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
bullshit.

you can transfer a delay after 5 working days if no response is received from NICS



I thought it was 3 days.



it is, i had a brain fart.

for example, sell on sunday, transfer on thursday, etc....

still no fucking year...............
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:10:11 PM EDT
Guys, it's probably not a case of being delyed for a year, at this point it's a denial,
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:17:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 8:18:19 PM EDT by Hydguy]

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Guys, it's probably not a case of being delyed for a year, at this point it's a denial,



Sorry, but if the NCIC doesn't call back on day 3 with an approval or denial, then the store has the right to transfer the firearm to the purchaser.

If the store has kept the rifle for a year, they should have been sued.

Edited because of a brain fart.. however it is 72 BUISNESS hours to come through with the approval or denial, which could add up to 5 days if you run the check on a Saturday morning...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:30:41 PM EDT
He may very well have been denied, I don't know.. I just know that the guy is suing because ATF won't let him take posession of the rifle after having had the stroke.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:31:43 PM EDT
If someone gets delayed the gun can be transfered after 72 hours. It happened to me once buying a rifle out of state.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:57:13 PM EDT
I always check American Indian. I guess they have forgotten about AIM and Wounded Knee. Thank god.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:14:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bblake00:



Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:14:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
As I walked in, a pair of gentlemen were finishing up a transaction but the purchaser was delayed(the gun was bought on a CCW permit, but the permit was brand new so the file info provided wasn't updated yet)....



if a CCW is presented and valid, no NICS check is done. the 4473 still is filled out though.



Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Trapper was told that since he had suffered a stroke a year earlier, that he wasn't competent to own a firearm!!!!



this is not info the NICS would have.


Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Apparently FBI is denying/delaying a lot of Blacks and virtually all Arabics that he calls in-can any other FFL's confirm this? I didn't have any problems..

Dave



i have no idea about this, but if it is true, don't expect jessie jackson to come to the rescue.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:22:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
He may very well have been denied, I don't know.. I just know that the guy is suing because ATF won't let him take posession of the rifle after having had the stroke.

Dave



No you think you know that because Trapper gave you a complete snow job.

Trapper is a lying sack of suds…
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:31:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 7:34:20 PM EDT by SFR]
i work for a gunshop i wish i could order that little N to come up when i wanted it too. People who act like scum, talk like scum and look like scum.... mostly are scum.

yet i had 70 year old man get denied for ruger MKIII target.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:48:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By grizzlyarms:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
As I walked in, a pair of gentlemen were finishing up a transaction but the purchaser was delayed(the gun was bought on a CCW permit, but the permit was brand new so the file info provided wasn't updated yet)....



if a CCW is presented and valid, no NICS check is done. the 4473 still is filled out though.



Depends on the state.


Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Trapper was told that since he had suffered a stroke a year earlier, that he wasn't competent to own a firearm!!!!

this is not info the NICS would have.



Depends. They also, by law, arent supposed to keep records, but they do.



Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:49:56 PM EDT
Sounds a bit funny. I bought a pistol 2 days after getting my CCW card back, sailed right thru. Still have to do the 4473 BS regardless of CCW as 4473 is a fed not a state thing.

The stroke thing sounds fishy as heck, they do not check your medical history. I can believe delaying Arabs, especially if they are here on a green card or not a US citizen, I'd probably do the same thing til I checked their history out. As far as delaying blacks, it depends if they have the same name as someone with a record, especially if they don't use their SSN#. However, they have 3 days in which to deny you or it goes thru. Damn, I love my goofy last name!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:59:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 8:01:03 PM EDT by macman37]
I like Trapper - I've taken CCW classes through his shop - but I wouldn't buy a gun from him He had an FAL up on the wall in a rack, I asked how much it was... He said it was sold. Why did it still have a tag on it then?

Edit: And the store isn't "on the east side of Detroit", it's North of Detroit on the East side of MI.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:24:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
Someone remeind me- is there a block for "Race" on the federal form? Seems I recall there is. What would the penalty be for putting down "Eskimo"?


I think that would depend on whether you were really Eskimo, or not. Either way, probably nothing would happen to you, but I personally wouldn't risk it unless I were really of Inuit/Aleut descent. Never know when "lying on a federal form" might come back to haunt you......



Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By grizzlyarms:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Trapper was told that since he had suffered a stroke a year earlier, that he wasn't competent to own a firearm!!!!


this is not info the NICS would have.


Depends. They also, by law, arent supposed to keep records, but they do.


Good point!



Originally Posted By fxntime:
<snip>
I can believe delaying Arabs, especially if they are here on a green card or not a US citizen, I'd probably do the same thing til I checked their history out. As far as delaying blacks, it depends if they have the same name as someone with a record, especially if they don't use their SSN#. However, they have 3 days in which to deny you or it goes thru. Damn, I love my goofy last name!!!!!


Might the delaying blacks thing, if true, have something to do with the Arab thing (also, if true)? Before taking the bait, hook, line, and sinker, I would wonder what their names were. Are they Muslim, and do their names "look like it"?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:54:29 AM EDT
Bullshit story on tne gun and the race


Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:17:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
Someone remeind me- is there a block for "Race" on the federal form? Seems I recall there is. What would the penalty be for putting down "Eskimo"?



Yup, there is an "American/Alaska Native" box to check. That is what I hit. Ich bin ein Eskimo.

White folks seem to think I look like a muk, but the muks think I look like a cracker. I say I look like an American...a fat one, but American.

I think the race check boxes are there to compare to the Records on file to see if it matches with what is on file. You'd probably end up waiting for a while if you checked the wrong box.

---------------------------------------------------

To the original post....that sounds like a helluva story, but given that the .gov is involved, who knows.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:22:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SFR:
i work for a gunshop i wish i could order that little N to come up when i wanted it too. People who act like scum, talk like scum and look like scum.... mostly are scum.

yet i had 70 year old man get denied for ruger MKIII target.

The ATF states that the FFL can deny the transfer for any reason what-so-ever and it cannot be held against him/her. You could deny the sale because the person looks like scum and he couldnt do anything about it.

Kharn
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:52:53 PM EDT
Is what I don't under stand is why would the dealer take the money before calling in the check? I had one do it to me and just figured that they wanted the money whether or not they got the go ahead.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:39:06 PM EDT
either pay after the check is made or pay by credit card and displute the transaction afterwards if any stuff like this comes up
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:28:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:


Apparently FBI is denying/delaying a lot of Blacks and virtually all Arabics that he calls in

Dave





You honestly believe this?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:38:25 PM EDT
If you ever met Trapper, you would know there would be one simple word to describe him. MORON! You have to meet this guy to believe it. Bottom line don't believe a word he says.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:47:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
He may very well have been denied, I don't know.. I just know that the guy is suing because ATF won't let him take posession of the rifle after having had the stroke.

Dave



If it's a denial then it has nothing to do with the ATF. NICS is done through the FBI. If he's suing the ATF then he's suing the wrong people.

I had several denials that I successfully appealed and it all goes through the FBI.

A stroke does not automatically disqualify anyone from receiving a firearm. There are a lot of holes in the story.
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