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Posted: 12/22/2005 1:43:29 PM EDT
I have a few Colt 1911s (real old ones) and I know among the modern (post WWII) one series is preferrable and IIRC it has something to do with a trigger disconnect.

I also know that the preferred config is now available again on some models.

My Dad has a Gold Cup stolen years ago and I want to try and replace it.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:47:03 PM EDT
From Tussey, who worked over a Series 80 for me, many smiths don't like the series 80s because the trigger disconnect makes it more difficult to smooth out. He sneered at that notion and turned my Commanding Officer's into a dream to shoot, trigger breaks like a glass rod.

If your dad's like mine, he won't care that a good smith can work around it, he's going to want the pre disconect model, series 70.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:00:54 PM EDT
Series 70 vs. Series 80

a lot of information, but is the definitive resource on the subject

Both are beautiful!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:16:04 PM EDT
The Series 80 is a blasphemous hack job of John Brownings perfect design.

My Grandfather didn't need no politically correct series 80 bullshit when we was killing Germans in WWI !
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:17:21 PM EDT
calling Hobbs!!!! calling Hobbs!!!!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:18:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:27:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:
calling Hobbs!!!! calling Hobbs!!!!



Hobbs' Series 70 vs. 80 post in the 1911 section
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:51:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigWorm55:

Originally Posted By desertmoon:
calling Hobbs!!!! calling Hobbs!!!!



Hobbs' Series 70 vs. 80 post in the 1911 section



thanks, BW55!!!!

Hobbs is very good folk!!!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:05:21 PM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:13:29 PM EDT
If you want a Colt Series-70 get the new moder repro from Colt. Colt had a lot of labor problems in the 70's and early 80's, their QC was poor, and if you don't know what you're looking for you can get screwed... The guns will be so f'd up, not even a good 'smith can make them work.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:29:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:37:49 PM EDT
I have two series 80s. Both are excellent shooters... they should be; cost me a bundle to have a smith get them working correctly.

What's this trigger disconnect some mention?

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:41:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LS1Eddie:
I have two series 80s. Both are excellent shooters... they should be; cost me a bundle to have a smith get them working correctly.

What's this trigger disconnect some mention?

Eddie



That was me, I was thinking of the firing pin block.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:45:42 PM EDT

That was me, I was thinking of the firing pin block.


Ah. Take the extra parts out and thow them away. Kimber did it a little smarter; the block doesn't affect trigger pull. Still unnecessary, IMO.

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:11:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Don't be afraid of series 80 Gold Cup. My series 80 stainless Gold Cup had the series 80 parts fail at around 10,000 rnds, just pulled the parts out no problem, although supposedly something is different about the half cock on a series 70 compared to the series 80, it has never caused a problem for me.

If you buy a new production Gold Cup it will have a plenty good enough trigger. He will like it.



The half-cock on a series 70 does not engage the sear surface, and you cannot lower the hammer simply by pulling the trigger. It is more prone to breakage than the series 80, but it protects the sear nose better.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 8:11:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 8:24:58 AM EDT by MonkeyGrip]

Originally Posted By LS1Eddie:

That was me, I was thinking of the firing pin block.


Ah. Take the extra parts out and thow them away. Kimber did it a little smarter...

Eddie



I feel the need to comment here since this isn't a good idea and is wrong.

First: Any good smith will tell you that there's no noticable impact on trigger feel from the series 80 firing pin block mechanisms unless you get down to like a 2 lb trigger. Second: If anyone's ever had a problem with the series 80 parts you'l be hard pressed to find such a case, which is not the case with the Kimber set-up which did 'cause some operationl problems with guns, although Kimber's has reportedly fixed this. So removing series 80 part is quite unnecessary and the Colt series 80s have a better reliablity record (near perfect) than do the Kimber guns with the Schwartz mechanisms. Third: Taking the series 80 (or Kimber Schwartz) parts out will leave a hole in your slide which could lead to operational problems. Someone once sold a plug that could be installed in place of the series 80 FP block but this represents an extra part with potential liabilities in itself. Good smiths and experinced shooters will tell you to leave the series 80 parts in as they represent little to no liability while removing them will increase liability and provide little to no asset (only eases dissasembly and cleaning a bit).

The series 70 are the simplest and are prefered, but cost hundreds more than the series 80s and are hard to find. If you can't find or afford the 70 get the Series 80 which are very nice and you'll never notice the difference.

Gold cups have even more extra parts in them that I've heard are a real PITA to re-assemble following a complete disassembly. I wouldn't want a Gold Cup for that reason.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:22:45 AM EDT

First: Any good smith will tell you that there's no noticable impact on trigger feel from the series 80 firing pin block mechanisms unless you get down to like a 2 lb trigger. Second: If anyone's ever had a problem with the series 80 parts you'l be hard pressed to find such a case, which is not the case with the Kimber set-up which did 'cause some operationl problems with guns, although Kimber's has reportedly fixed this. So removing series 80 part is quite unnecessary and the Colt series 80s have a better reliablity record (near perfect) than do the Kimber guns with the Schwartz mechanisms.


Two series 80s...sucked out of the box, but worked great after a "good" smith fixed 'em. Two series II Kimbers...no problems too date...over 30K in one.

Maybe my Colts were the only two, but it sucked that I had to get them both.

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:32:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LS1Eddie:

First: Any good smith will tell you that there's no noticable impact on trigger feel from the series 80 firing pin block mechanisms unless you get down to like a 2 lb trigger. Second: If anyone's ever had a problem with the series 80 parts you'l be hard pressed to find such a case, which is not the case with the Kimber set-up which did 'cause some operationl problems with guns, although Kimber's has reportedly fixed this. So removing series 80 part is quite unnecessary and the Colt series 80s have a better reliablity record (near perfect) than do the Kimber guns with the Schwartz mechanisms.


Two series 80s...sucked out of the box, but worked great after a "good" smith fixed 'em. Two series II Kimbers...no problems too date...over 30K in one.

Maybe my Colts were the only two, but it sucked that I had to get them both.

Eddie



You're sucky triggers were because of the hammer and sear which the smith likely worked over, not the series 80 junk. The smith didn't likely even touch the series 80 gear, save to maybe polish them.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:38:30 AM EDT

You're sucky triggers were because of the hammer and sear which the smith likely worked over, not the series 80 junk. The smith didn't likely even touch the series 80 gear, save to maybe polish them.


The biggest issue wasn't the trigger (which did suck). It was FTFs. He didn''t polish the firing pin block parts; he put them in a plastic bag. I still have them.

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:46:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LS1Eddie:

You're sucky triggers were because of the hammer and sear which the smith likely worked over, not the series 80 junk. The smith didn't likely even touch the series 80 gear, save to maybe polish them.


The biggest issue wasn't the trigger (which did suck). It was FTFs. He didn''t polish the firing pin block parts; he put them in a plastic bag. I still have them.

Eddie

Are you saying Series 80 parts contributed to FTF's? They would have no bearing on feeding? I don't care for 80's, but they work fine. Maybe I misunderstood?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:02:47 PM EDT

Are you saying Series 80 parts contributed to FTF's? They would have no bearing on feeding? I don't care for 80's, but they work fine. Maybe I misunderstood?


You misunderstood.

Mine didn't work so well.

I asked the smith to remove the parts as I feel a firing pin block is as useful as bacon to a muslim and add parasitic drag to the trigger. He agreed. One day I'll remove them from my Kimbers. At least they don't affect the trigger.

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:09:18 PM EDT
The sucess of Springfield Armory in the 1980's was a result of Colt's crappy guns.

They stepped in with better quality 1911's, without the extra series.80 crap, and supported shooting sports like USPSA / IPSC.

Later Kimber came along and stepped the quality up even further, leaving Springfield trying to play catch up.

Colt makes nice rifles, but the pistols have really gone downhill over the years.



Link Posted: 12/23/2005 2:16:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Derek45:
The sucess of Springfield Armory in the 1980's was a result of Colt's crappy guns.

They stepped in with better quality 1911's, without the extra series.80 crap, and supported shooting sports like USPSA / IPSC.

Later Kimber came along and stepped the quality up even further, leaving Springfield trying to play catch up.

Colt makes nice rifles, but the pistols have really gone downhill over the years.



You're right. Everybody send your crappy Colt series 80s with the abominable firing pin junk to me and I'll dispose of them properly.

Don't you think you're being generous to say their rifles are "nice".
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:55:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkeyGrip:

Originally Posted By Derek45:
The sucess of Springfield Armory in the 1980's was a result of Colt's crappy guns.

They stepped in with better quality 1911's, without the extra series.80 crap, and supported shooting sports like USPSA / IPSC.

Later Kimber came along and stepped the quality up even further, leaving Springfield trying to play catch up.

Colt makes nice rifles, but the pistols have really gone downhill over the years.



You're right. Everybody send your crappy Colt series 80s with the abominable firing pin junk to me and I'll dispose of them properly.

Don't you think you're being generous to say their rifles are "nice".



Somebody struck a nerve.

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 5:07:37 PM EDT
The orginal series 70's had that goofy "finger" bushing on them that would break. I think a modern made 70 series has a solid bushing.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:19:48 AM EDT

The orginal series 70's had that goofy "finger" bushing on them that would break. I think a modern made 70 series has a solid bushing.


My series 80 GC came with a collet bushing. It went the way of the firing pin block.

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:26:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ryann:
The orginal series 70's had that goofy "finger" bushing on them that would break. I think a modern made 70 series has a solid bushing.



My pistol (70series GC) with the goofy "finger" bushings is the most accurate pistol I have ever shot. I think it works.

M4-AK
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:32:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-AK:

Originally Posted By ryann:
The orginal series 70's had that goofy "finger" bushing on them that would break. I think a modern made 70 series has a solid bushing.



My pistol (70series GC) with the goofy "finger" bushings is the most accurate pistol I have ever shot. I think it works.

M4-AK



Collet bushings were known to break, and lock up the slide.

The proper way to make an accurate 1911 is with a hand fitted barrel and bushing.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 11:59:25 AM EDT
Here's a good step-by-step account with photos of series 80 parts replacement with filler plate, along with reason why you might want to do it:

freepatriot.com/removeseries80.php
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