Christians strip to build a new Eden
Tony Allen-Mills, New York





IN THE beginning was the word of God and God never said anything about brassieres or boxer shorts. Thus was born Natura, America’s first Christian nudist camp.

After two years of biblical debate over Adam and Eve and their fig leaves and whether or not nudity is sinful, a 67-year-old Quaker grandfather is preparing to open a modern-day Garden of Eden 40 miles north of Tampa, Florida.

Bill Martin’s ambitious plan for a 200-acre Christian- oriented Family Naturist Village has survived legal challenges, doctrinal disputes and a plague of internet prudes. Land is now being cleared for the opening next year of what may become the world’s only Christian community to feature nude volleyball.

Despite howls of complaint from fundamentalists who have likened Martin to the Antichrist — and described his nudist plans as “graphic evidence of America’s moral collapse” — Natura intends to build 50 houses around a non-denominational church where clothing for services will be optional.

He has fought with his neighbours over property rights, fallen out with other nudists over his promotional material and sparked a vigorous internet debate over whether the true path to godliness really involves getting naked.

Yet Martin remains confident that Christians will flock to Natura to experience the spiritual benefits of a lifestyle “free from body shame”. He is spending more than $2m on a nudist recreational complex that will also feature a hotel, campsites and a children’s water park.

“As evidenced by Adam and Eve, we believe that when God’s children are in the right relationship to Him, they will be naked and unashamed,” explains one of Natura’s brochures.

American Christians have long been intrigued by the biblical implications of nudity and Ilsley Boone, a Baptist pastor, was the founder in 1931 of the American Sunbathing Association, an early naturist group.

Martin and his supporters argue that nudism is unhealthy, especially for children, unless it occurs in a proper Christian context. He has criticised non- religious nudist camps for encouraging alcohol and sensuality. “We are going after a totally different group, a group that doesn’t want a sexual atmosphere,” he said. “There is absolutely no relationship between nudity and sex.”

Much of his group’s philosophy appears in a book, Nakedness and the Bible, self- published on the internet by Paul Bowman, a Canadian author. The book cites several biblical references suggesting that God does not disapprove of nudity and that Jesus may have been naked at several key moments of his life — notably when he washed the feet of his disciples.

Martin’s supporters also claim that nude worship is much more in keeping with modest Christian values than are the ostentatious displays of wealth on show at the suburban “megachurches”, where women attend services in “designer clothes and $90 haircuts”, says one internet posting.

None of which has stopped Martin’s critics from battling against his project. Texe Marrs, who operates a website called Conspiracyworld.com, has pointed to Martin’s project as evidence that Satan is subverting Christianity.

ETA (Fox News video, opens in Windows Media Player)

mms://wsvnmedia.wsvn.com/video/windowsmedia/features/10/05182004_bible_buff.wmv

(unable to make hot)


Daniel Bellows, chief executive of the new development, said that he regularly receives e-mails from Christians appalled by the idea of nude worship and warning him that he faces eternal damnation.

Although Martin’s land has been used by naturists before — the area has the largest concentration of nudist camps in America — he has alienated local residents with proposed property improvements that have spawned half a dozen lawsuits.

He has also upset America’s largest naturist association with his “holier-than-thou” approach. Earlier this year Natura was expelled by the American Association for Nude Recreation, representing 270 member organisations, on the grounds that his website was publishing “sexually exploitative material”.

Martin, who made his money building nursing and retirement homes in Washington, dismissed the allegations as professional jealousy and defended the photographs as harmless.

“Christ has forewarned us that we would be persecuted for his sake,” he told supporters in an e-mail. But he later removed all photographs from his site.

Martin also became embroiled in a bizarre dispute about an article that appeared on his website discussing male erections — a perennial concern for novice nudists. Martin told the St Petersburg Times that the article was meant to help young men worried about an embarrassing reaction when first confronting naked women.

“If you can’t speak about human nature, I don’t know what you can speak about,” he said. “Erections have got to be addressed. It’s a major concern of teen males.”

Martin’s critics depict him as a religious fanatic whose criticisms of rival resorts are damaging the naturist industry. “We are not concerned about him taking our members,” said Elf Anderson, who conducts nude marriage ceremonies at other resorts. “But we are concerned about the impression he gives to the public about us.

“We are all for wholesome family nudism — but he’s just way off the scale.”

Nutjobs who try to shoehorn their own brand of insanity into Christianity just help prove, again and again, that Jesus is the Messiah.

Were He not, these nutjobs wouldn't be trying so hard to force their way into the Church.



Thanks for the link!

Quoted: Nutjobs who try to shoehorn their own brand of insanity into Christianity just help prove, again and again, that Jesus is the Messiah. Were He not, these nutjobs wouldn't be trying so hard to force their way into the Church. Thanks for the link!

I would ask how you got that piece of reasoning, but I am afraid you might try to answer.

BOOBIES!

Quoted: Christians strip to build a new Eden Tony Allen-Mills, New York He is spending more than $2m on a nudist recreational complex that will also feature a hotel,  and a children’s water park.

That is convienent

Martin also became embroiled in a bizarre dispute about an article that appeared on his website discussing male erections — a perennial concern for novice nudists. Martin told the St Petersburg Times that the article was meant to help young men worried about an embarrassing reaction when first confronting naked women. “If you can’t speak about human nature, I don’t know what you can speak about,” he said. “Erections have got to be addressed. It’s a major concern of teen males.”

I wonder if there are going to be any Catholic priests changing to Baptist now....

Quoted: Quoted: Nutjobs who try to shoehorn their own brand of insanity into Christianity just help prove, again and again, that Jesus is the Messiah. Were He not, these nutjobs wouldn't be trying so hard to force their way into the Church. Thanks for the link! I would ask how you got that piece of reasoning, but I am afraid you might try to answer.

If Christianity were false - if there were ANY way on earth for men to be saved other than through Jesus Christ, then nobody would be beating on the door of the church demanding to be taken seriously when they opened up a 'Christian nudist colony'.

Throughout history, people have tried to attach all sorts of unGodly ideas to Christianity. People rarely try to imitate what is false.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nutjobs who try to shoehorn their own brand of insanity into Christianity just help prove, again and again, that Jesus is the Messiah. Were He not, these nutjobs wouldn't be trying so hard to force their way into the Church. Thanks for the link! I would ask how you got that piece of reasoning, but I am afraid you might try to answer. If Christianity were false - if there were ANY way on earth for men to be saved other than through Jesus Christ, then nobody would be beating on the door of the church demanding to be taken seriously when they opened up a 'Christian nudist colony'. Throughout history, people have tried to attach all sorts of unGodly ideas to Christianity. People rarely try to imitate what is false.

Uuuuh, yeah. Then how would you account for all the times they have remade "Freaky Friday"?

I can't see anything you said there that is really correct. I think this piece of reasoning is all your own, shall we say.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nutjobs who try to shoehorn their own brand of insanity into Christianity just help prove, again and again, that Jesus is the Messiah. Were He not, these nutjobs wouldn't be trying so hard to force their way into the Church. Thanks for the link! I would ask how you got that piece of reasoning, but I am afraid you might try to answer. If Christianity were false - if there were ANY way on earth for men to be saved other than through Jesus Christ, then nobody would be beating on the door of the church demanding to be taken seriously when they opened up a 'Christian nudist colony'. Throughout history, people have tried to attach all sorts of unGodly ideas to Christianity. People rarely try to imitate what is false.

Tell that to Televangelists! :D

Quoted: “But we are concerned about the impression he gives to the public about us. “We are all for wholesome family nudism — but he’s just way off the scale.”

Uh, that its just a bunch of people running around naked?

How far off the scale of what.  Nudity?

Quoted: I can't see anything you said there that is really correct. I think this piece of reasoning is all your own, shall we say.

I'm calling your bluff on that one - potheads don't think.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nutjobs who try to shoehorn their own brand of insanity into Christianity just help prove, again and again, that Jesus is the Messiah. Were He not, these nutjobs wouldn't be trying so hard to force their way into the Church. Thanks for the link! I would ask how you got that piece of reasoning, but I am afraid you might try to answer. If Christianity were false - if there were ANY way on earth for men to be saved other than through Jesus Christ, then nobody would be beating on the door of the church demanding to be taken seriously when they opened up a 'Christian nudist colony'. Throughout history, people have tried to attach all sorts of unGodly ideas to Christianity. People rarely try to imitate what is false. Uuuuh, yeah. Then how would you account for all the times they have remade "Freaky Friday"? I can't see anything you said there that is really correct. I think this piece of reasoning is all your own, shall we say.

wolfman + reasoning =?

Nudity for adults is a matter of choice I suppose, but I was told by some aging hippies that nudist camps are very bad places for children--the camps are notorious magnets for child molesters.
~

Quoted: Nudity for adults is a matter of choice I suppose, but I was told by some aging hippies that nudist camps are very bad places for children--the camps are notorious magnets for child molesters. ~

nope most of them today very rerely allow singles in them, at least the family ones. also you must realize that 99% of the people at these places would be on the watch for anything bad. thats whay AANR kicked him out saying his website was too "racey"

Quoted: Quoted: I can't see anything you said there that is really correct. I think this piece of reasoning is all your own, shall we say. I'm calling your bluff on that one - potheads don't think.

Whom did you erroneously assume was a pothead?

RE: The thread title.

I was thinking the words "nudist" and "twist" in the same sentence kind of bothered me...

Quoted: Nudity for adults is a matter of choice I suppose, but I was told by some aging hippies that nudist camps are very bad places for children--the camps are notorious magnets for child molesters. ~

kinda like the priesthood? ba-zing!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't see anything you said there that is really correct. I think this piece of reasoning is all your own, shall we say. I'm calling your bluff on that one - potheads don't think. Whom did you erroneously assume was a pothead?

Nobody.

I neither made error nor assumption.


You, sir, are a pothead.


I suppose that now you'll try to tell me you don't smoke pot; you just think it should be legal on some matter of principle, but I 1) seriously doubt that, and 2) find it irrelevant, as I make no distinction between morons who use drugs, and morons who would legalize drugs.

Quoted: shouldn't this be in the Religious Forum ?

Better idea:

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=117

Quoted: Thanks for the link!

It's a real article, I saw it the other day

Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the link! It's a real article, I saw it the other day

Um...where?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't see anything you said there that is really correct. I think this piece of reasoning is all your own, shall we say. I'm calling your bluff on that one - potheads don't think. Whom did you erroneously assume was a pothead? Nobody. I neither made error nor assumption. You, sir, are a pothead. I suppose that now you'll try to tell me you don't smoke pot; you just think it should be legal on some matter of principle, but I 1) seriously doubt that, and 2) find it irrelevant, as I make no distinction between morons who use drugs, and morons who would legalize drugs.

Let's just leave it at the obvious -- you don't know what you are talking about (on either subject) so this is best you can come up with. But thanks for taking the time to shit in someone else's thread that had nothing to do with anything you mentioned.

If you are a Christian Nudist, but you still get a woodie at the nudist colony, are you going to teh hell?

Quoted: If you are a Christian Nudist, but you still get a woodie at the nudist colony, are you going to teh hell?

only if you have someone sitting on your lap

Quoted: Quoted: If you are a Christian Nudist, but you still get a woodie at the nudist colony, are you going to teh hell? only if you have someone sitting on your lap

Are hugs allowed? Big looooooong, soooothing hugs?

I'f first, I can't believe it.

This thread is worthless without Pics!

Wait, old biblethumper boobies prolly ain't good pic material.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are a Christian Nudist, but you still get a woodie at the nudist colony, are you going to teh hell? only if you have someone sitting on your lap Are hugs allowed? Big looooooong, soooothing hugs?

so long as it doesn't end with you decorating the recipient with jewelry, then yes, hugs are permitted.

Quoted: Thanks for the link!

Try this. (Fox News video, opens in Windows Media Player)

mms://wsvnmedia.wsvn.com/video/windowsmedia/features/10/05182004_bible_buff.wmv

(unable to make hot)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are a Christian Nudist, but you still get a woodie at the nudist colony, are you going to teh hell? only if you have someone sitting on your lap Are hugs allowed? Big looooooong, soooothing hugs? so long as it doesn't end with you decorating the recipient with jewelry, then yes, hugs are permitted.

What do you mean by "jewelry"? I mean, I got some family jewels that I allow women to use for entertainment, but not to keep.

Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the link! Try this. (Fox News video, opens in Windows Media Player) mms://wsvnmedia.wsvn.com/video/windowsmedia/features/10/05182004_bible_buff.wmv (unable to make hot)

Thanks for the link

These 'Christians' need to read Genesis 3.

After two years of biblical debate over Adam and Eve and their fig leaves and whether or not nudity is sinful, a 67-year-old Quaker grandfather is preparing to open a modern-day Garden of Eden 40 miles north of Tampa, Florida.

I believe a 67 year-old man would be at the top of my list titled: "People I DON"T want to see naked"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the link! Try this. (Fox News video, opens in Windows Media Player) mms://wsvnmedia.wsvn.com/video/windowsmedia/features/10/05182004_bible_buff.wmv (unable to make hot) Thanks for the link These 'Christians' need to read Genesis 3.

Maybe, just for fun, you can give us the short version of how walking around naked is covered under G3.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are a Christian Nudist, but you still get a woodie at the nudist colony, are you going to teh hell? only if you have someone sitting on your lap Are hugs allowed? Big looooooong, soooothing hugs? so long as it doesn't end with you decorating the recipient with jewelry, then yes, hugs are permitted. What do you mean by "jewelry"? I mean, I got some family jewels that I allow women to use for entertainment, but not to keep.

I mean ornate jewelry that'd be uncalled for in a nude / christian environment, like....a pearl necklace.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are a Christian Nudist, but you still get a woodie at the nudist colony, are you going to teh hell? only if you have someone sitting on your lap Are hugs allowed? Big looooooong, soooothing hugs? so long as it doesn't end with you decorating the recipient with jewelry, then yes, hugs are permitted. What do you mean by "jewelry"? I mean, I got some family jewels that I allow women to use for entertainment, but not to keep. I mean ornate jewelry that'd be uncalled for in a nude / christian environment, like....a pearl necklace.

Ornate? Hmmmmm, I don't know if you could call it "ornate" exactly . . . . . .

How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it.

Quoted: How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it.

Only question of any importance: Can I touch? What are my chances of getting lucky?

Other question of no importance: Do you soak it in warm water before you go out on cold days so you don't embarrass yourself?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the link! Try this. (Fox News video, opens in Windows Media Player) mms://wsvnmedia.wsvn.com/video/windowsmedia/features/10/05182004_bible_buff.wmv (unable to make hot) Thanks for the link These 'Christians' need to read Genesis 3. Maybe, just for fun, you can give us the short version of how walking around naked is covered under G3.

I'd be glad to; I'm glad you asked.


Genesis Chapter 3:

3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Notice the 2 verses in red:


First, after 'the fall', Adam and Eve knew (as soon as they had eaten) that they were naked, and they were (now being full of knowledge) ashamed of it.

So they covered themselves.

Ultra-short version: before the fall, in the absence of Knowledge, there was no need to be ashamed of their nakedness.

After they eat the fruit, they knew that they were naked, and realized that (since they knew of it) there was something inherently wrong with this immodesty (again, since they were aware of it).

This is reinforced in verse 21 where God made them clothes - to cover their nakedness - as they were being booted from the Garden of Eden.

Quoted: How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it.

..................so.......................................how do you, you know.............................................deal with the errr.............erection thing when you see a nice rack or ass?

Quoted: Quoted: How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it. Only question of any importance: Can I touch? What are my chances of getting lucky? Other question of no importance: Do you soak it in warm water before you go out on cold days so you don't embarrass yourself?

No on both counts. Penis size is ironically less relevant to most nudists, because it's not about showing off.

Quoted: Quoted: How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it. ..................so.......................................how do you, you know.............................................deal with the errr.............erection thing when you see a nice rack or ass?

It tends not to happen. But if it does then getting in the pool or sitting in the bathroom until it goes away helps. Nudism isn't about looking at racks and asses though. Always look a nudist in the eyes.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it. ..................so.......................................how do you, you know.............................................deal with the errr.............erection thing when you see a nice rack or ass? It tends not to happen. But if it does then getting in the pool or sitting in the bathroom until it goes away helps.

 I would probably be in the pool for a long time

Nudism isn't about looking at racks and asses though. Always look a nudist in the eyes.

That must be hard to do.

Quoted: I would probably be in the pool for a long time That must be hard to do.

Usually there's something else happening to take your mind off it, so as long as you're not thinking "Go down, go down," it goes away pretty quick.

And it's not hard, it's one of those things that makes you think "Well damn, I thought that would be hard" afterward.

Quoted: Notice the 2 verses in red: First, after 'the fall', Adam and Eve knew (as soon as they had eaten) that they were naked, and they were (now being full of knowledge) ashamed of it. So they covered themselves. Ultra-short version: before the fall, in the absence of Knowledge, there was no need to be ashamed of their nakedness. After they eat the fruit, they knew that they were naked, and realized that (since they knew of it) there was something inherently wrong with this immodesty (again, since they were aware of it). This is reinforced in verse 21 where God made them clothes - to cover their nakedness - as they were being booted from the Garden of Eden.

I will give you credit for creative thinking. Never mind the obvious usefulness of clothing in preventing sunburn, etc.

But I was looking more for something along the lines of "Go, and never let me see your naked butt again."  It doesn't seem to me that God excluded all nudity forever in that. I mean, it is possible that a group of people could get together naked without thinking lustful thoughts -- just because they wanted to enjoy the breeze all over, isn't it? It's OK if my wife sees me while I am taking a shower, isn't it?

From what the self-announced nudist here has told us, there ain't a lot of hanky-panky going on.

Of course, I grant you that if they were doing hanky-panky, that's a different story, and I would be just as outraged as you are. In fact, I volunteer to be on the undercover investigative team.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it. Only question of any importance: Can I touch? What are my chances of getting lucky? Other question of no importance: Do you soak it in warm water before you go out on cold days so you don't embarrass yourself? No on both counts. Penis size is ironically less relevant to most nudists, because it's not about showing off.

Well, shit! Now you have me all confused.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it. Only question of any importance: Can I touch? What are my chances of getting lucky? Other question of no importance: Do you soak it in warm water before you go out on cold days so you don't embarrass yourself? No on both counts. Penis size is ironically less relevant to most nudists, because it's not about showing off. Well, shit! Now you have me all confused.

On which point?

Quoted: I will give you credit for creative thinking. Never mind the obvious usefulness of clothing in preventing sunburn, etc.

No offense, but I'm not here looking for credit. My understanding of Scripture is fine. I expected you to bring up the sunburn line.

(Well, actually, I expected you to bring up weather in general, but it's all the same; I've heard all the arguements before)

But I was looking more for something along the lines of "Go, and never let me see your naked butt again."  It doesn't seem to me that God excluded all nudity forever in that. I mean, it is possible that a group of people could get together naked without thinking lustful thoughts -- just because they wanted to enjoy the breeze all over, isn't it? It's OK if my wife sees me while I am taking a shower, isn't it?

Is it possible? Doubtful. Your wife? Absolutely!

Genesis says Adam *knew* Eve.

This knowledge - sight, taste, touch, etcetera - is part of marriage. No part of it was intended to be shared openly with everyone you meet.

From what the self-announced nudist here has told us, there ain't a lot of hanky-panky going on.

I have no reason to doubt him - but remember, lust is a heart condition. Physical action isn't required. Maybe no hanky-panky, but definitely lust - at least until your conscience became numbed to the idea of naked people running around.

Of course, I grant you that if they were doing hanky-panky, that's a different story, and I would be just as outraged as you are. In fact, I volunteer to be on the undercover investigative team.

Fine. Just please don't post pictures.

Quoted: People rarely try to imitate what is false.

Not gonna mention Britney Spears cronies, or the wigger wanna-be gangbangers...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about this: I'm a nudist myself. If anyone has a question about it go ahead and ask it. Only question of any importance: Can I touch? What are my chances of getting lucky? Other question of no importance: Do you soak it in warm water before you go out on cold days so you don't embarrass yourself? No on both counts. Penis size is ironically less relevant to most nudists, because it's not about showing off. Well, shit! Now you have me all confused. On which point?

How can exposing my pecker to women not be about showing off?

Quoted: Quoted: I would probably be in the pool for a long time That must be hard to do. Usually there's something else happening to take your mind off it, so as long as you're not thinking "Go down, go down," it goes away pretty quick. And it's not hard, it's one of those things that makes you think "Well damn, I thought that would be hard" afterward.

So do you enjoy nudity at all.....what I mean is do you ever get satisfaction looking at womenz?