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Posted: 12/22/2005 7:38:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 7:40:57 AM EDT by R_S]
Some more info and new details about what happened on the bridge after Katrina:

60 minutes story

"The Bridge To Gretna

GRETNA, Louisiana, Dec. 18, 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(CBS) When Hurricane Katrina blew through New Orleans three months ago, thousands of people left in the city were trapped with no food, no water and no shelter. They were desperate to escape the devastation.

The bridge that spans the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Gretna was one of the few ways out, until police from Gretna used force to stop pedestrians from crossing it. Since most of the police officers were white and most of the evacuees were black, the incident quickly took on racial overtones. 60 Minutes wondered why, under any circumstances, people who were only trying to walk out of a devastated city would be prevented from reaching relative safety.

Correspondent Ed Bradley went to New Orleans to find out. But, as with so many things in America, when it comes to race, the answer is hardly ever black and white.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The bridge where the incident took place is called the Crescent City Connection, linking the city of New Orleans with the west bank of the Mississippi River.

It was Wednesday, three days after Katrina had struck, when thousands of people started to walk across the bridge. Some 6,000 were put on buses. The exodus continued the next day when a group of tourists who had been staying in the French Quarter started heading in that direction.

Along the way, they were joined by hundreds of locals. But when this group tried to cross the bridge, they were met by a line of armed Gretna policemen who fired shotguns over their heads, told them Gretna was closed and turned them back.

60 Minutes found eight people who were on the bridge that day. Cathey Golden, who now lives in Boston, was visiting her hometown with her daughter, her son and three of their friends. Larry Bradshaw and Lorry Beth Slonsky, both paramedics from San Francisco, were in town for a convention. They all met the morning they were forced to leave the hotel where they had been staying since the hurricane.

“There was no electricity or plumbing and so after four days it just became, I'm sure, a danger to not just the hotel, for us! We needed to get out,” remembers Slonsky.

They joined thousands of people who had been left behind in New Orleans and were walking the streets looking for help.

Two hundred people from the hotel ended up stranded across from the police department’s command post.

“A gentleman came out and identified himself as one of the commanders. And he said ‘I have a solution. I have buses waiting for you across the bridge,’” Bradshaw recalls.

With that assurance, they joined hundreds of other people who were walking toward the bridge to Gretna. Images taken that day by a CBS News crew driving across the bridge show groups of evacuees approaching a line of policemen holding shotguns. The police car was marked Gretna Police.

Cathey Golden told 60 Minutes that when her group reached the police line, they were told there were no buses, and stopped with a shotgun blast.

What was her reaction when she heard the gunshot?

“I was scared at first. I've heard gunshots before, because I live in an inner city area. But not a shotgun. And I was concerned about my safety and those who were with me,” she says.

One of the people on the bridge with Cathey Golden was Shauron Holloman. She says she saw police officers fire their guns. “We were close enough to them. They'd rack their shotguns and let off a warning shot. We were this far away," Holloman says with a gesture. "This far away from you as I am,” says Holloman.

Larry Bradshaw, who was at the front of the group, says he tried to get an explanation why they were being turned back.

“The only two explanations we ever received was, one, ‘We're not going to have any Superdomes over here,’ and ‘This is not New Orleans,’” Bradshaw says. “To me, that was code language or code words for, ‘We're not having black people coming into our neighborhood.’"

With nowhere to go, they set up a makeshift camp in the middle of the highway. The plan was to spend the night on the bridge and try to cross again the next day. But then a vehicle with Gretna police markings drove up.

“He sped down in his cruiser and over the loudspeaker he just continuously said, ‘Get the f*** off the bridge,’” a male eyewitness who was on the bridge that day told Bradley. “And would point his gun at some people.”

At that point a helicopter dropped close to the encampment and its downdraft blew things everywhere, forcing the evacuees off the bridge. They believe that the motive was racism.

Why does the eyewitness think they were turned away? “I think because the group was 95 percent African American,” he says.

Asked if there was any evidence to support that, Shauron Holloman says, “A group of people trying to leave a city that's predominantly African American. And you have the officers who were white. That's the way it appears. And in that situation, that's the way you feel. We weren't given any information as to why we couldn't leave. So just appearance alone would make me feel that way.”

“We're not a predominantly white racist community that some people may assume that, because we live in the South, because we're in New Orleans, that that's just the way it is,” says Ronnie Harris, the mayor of Gretna.

Harris spoke with 60 Minutes because he feels strongly that the Gretna police department’s actions on the bridge had nothing to do with race and have been greatly misunderstood.

“Our community is one that understands compassion, one that understands that we have to give where we can. But when there is none, you have to take care of your own population first. And that is what we were faced with,” says Harris.

Gretna is a middle class suburb whose population of 17,500 is mostly white. But there is a substantial black minority: about 35 percent.

According to the mayor, from “day one” after the hurricane, Gretna was in no position to help outsiders.

“The city of Gretna was completely on its own. Our entire services were disrupted. No city services. No electricity. We had no shelter. We had no medical services. We were hit by a category four hurricane. What were people expecting us to do?” says Harris.

Harris says he saw brief reports of the looting in New Orleans. “Quite frankly, I was embarrassed to see a free-for-all of not taking food and water but goods and items. Vandalism. Civil unrest. Civil disobedience. And it sickened me.”

The mayor’s image of New Orleans came from media reports that emphasized chaos, looting and violence.

“So, this environment of police officers being shot, citizens lying dead in the street, images of looting going on in the city of New Orleans made me realize that our community was in a crisis of far greater proportion than just of the hurricane,” says Harris.

His concern increased on Wednesday when thousands of people from New Orleans, mostly desperate poor African Americans, started walking across the bridge towards Gretna.

“It started as a trickle, then it began quite heavily. From our estimates, between 5,000 and 6,000 people amassed on the west bank of the river. Now, that's our side of the river. The Gretna side,” says Harris.

The number of people fleeing the city was so large that the Gretna police commandeered transportation to bus them out of town. Over the next 24 hours, the police say they bused 6,000 evacuees from New Orleans. At the same time, police were on guard against reports of looting and stolen guns.

“All of this was crashing down on all of us who were in charge, had to make decisions in a crisis mode,” says Harris.

What led to the police chief's decision to seal off Gretna?

“Something had to be done,” says Harris. The mayor says it was the police chief’s decision, a decision which he supported “wholeheartedly.”

“We had to make a decision because we did not have the wherewithal to continue and to evacuate thousands and thousands of more people,” Arthur Lawson, chief of police in Gretna, told a CBS News reporter shortly after the incident.

“Our job was to secure our city. We did our best to evacuate those that came over, but we could not continue to evacuate the entire city of New Orleans,” Lawson told the CBS News reporter.

60 Minutes wanted to ask Lawson about his decision to shut down the bridge but he declined our request for an interview.

Mayor Harris says he sealed off the city because he wanted to protect the lives of Gretna’s residents. “You had to be there to understand and witness total chaos, total mayhem, the lack of information,” he says.

Does Harris think firing a shotgun was justified?

“When law enforcement is present, order is expected. Without it, terror and mayhem can ensue,” the mayor says.

When asked if he felt he had to condemn everyone because there might be some bad apples in that group, Harris said “Absolutely not!”

But the city turned everyone around—even the elderly and children-- because there might be some bad apples with them.

“What we did was seal that location off just like a dead end, because there was no safety or security available to wherever they were going. It did not exist. Was not there,” Harris said.

But, again, the city didn't let anyone into their community, including old women and children, because of fears that some bad apples might have come in with them.

“The crowd was desperate," Harris said. "The crowd had gone through some unbelievable sights and sounds and devastation [in the] hurricane. And I understand they were looking for safety and security. Something that I could not provide. It was as simple as that,” said Harris.

Oliver Thomas, president of the New Orleans City Council, calls that a “lame excuse.”

The day the Gretna police put the ban on pedestrians crossing the bridge into effect, he says, he was watching from his car.

“Hold on a second now. I can't walk across the bridge? And that's the state's bridge. Let's just get at the basic human rights. You got on the governor's bridge and stopped a Louisiana citizen from walking on the state's bridge. So who gave you the authority to stop that walk? It was non-violent. There weren't people walking with shotguns and rifles. They had to walk through shotguns and rifles,” says Thomas.

“It's not humane to intimidate women and children, old people, many who were on their last leg. If you could see the condition of people walking across the bridge, it was, literally the only way you could walk is one step at a time. But it was one calculated step at a time,” says Thomas.

Told that Gretna police felt they were facing an unruly crown and felt threatened, Thomas says, “They felt threatened by dehydrated, starved, tired people. Sounds like they need a new police force.”

“I'm sure that there were very good people. There were scared people. There were desperate people. And, unfortunately, contained within that crowd was a criminal element. That criminal element burned, looted, stole, threatened and terrorized,” says Mayor Ronnie Harris.

Thomas says people took advantage of the catastrophe throughout the region. “Guess what? There are people who do that. But do you penalize and victimize everybody else because of it?”

Chief Lawson had said: "We had no more to offer here than they did in New Orleans. We did not have food. We did not have water. We did not have shelters here."

Bradshaw's response: We weren't asking for food, water or shelter. We were asking for the ability to walk out of New Orleans."

“We did secure our community. I do not apologize for shutting the bridge down. You know my job and responsibility to this community is to make sure that it's safe, the people and their property are safe in this community,” Chief Lawson told the CBS News reporter after the incident.

People in Gretna aren’t apologizing either. Signs thanking the police chief and his department have sprouted in many of Gretna’s front yards. And the city council unanimously passed a resolution saying that “Allowing individuals to enter the city posed an unacceptable risk to the safety of the citizens of Gretna.”

The people of Gretna seem to be saying that there's a limit to compassion, that there is only so much you can do in circumstances like this to help people.

“Well, I think we're finding that out. I think we're finding that out in America right now, today,” says Thomas.

Does this say something about America?

“Katrina washed away a lot of veils and took a lot of face masks off. Your politics cannot be bigger than your humanity. And in this case, we didn't need politics. We needed humanity,” says Thomas.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Louisiana attorney general’s office is investigating whether laws were broken or civil rights were violated on the bridge to Gretna. "



Original article

Witnesses confirm paramedics account of police barricading escape

Instead, a suburban police officer angrily ordered about 200 people to abandon an encampment between the highways near the bridge. The officer then confiscated their food and water, the four witnesses said.

Police made their storm misery worse

"And when exhausted hurricane victims set up temporary shelters on the highway, Gretna police came back a few hours later, fired shots into the air again, told people to "get the f -- off the bridge" and used a helicopter to blow down all the makeshift shelters, the paramedics said.

When the officers had pushed the crowd back far enough, one of them took the group's food and water, dropped it in the trunk of a patrol car and drove away. "
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:41:13 AM EDT
They just didn't want Gretna to turn into Moghadishu and it would have.....guaranteed.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:43:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grivo_Mak:
They just didn't want Gretna to turn into Moghadishu and it would have.....guaranteed.



So Gretna police had no choice but to steal the Hurricane victem's food and water at gun point?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:49:00 AM EDT
Can't say that I blame them for stopping the crossing.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:55:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Grivo_Mak:
They just didn't want Gretna to turn into Moghadishu and it would have.....guaranteed.



So Gretna police had no choice but to steal the Hurricane victem's food and water at gun point?



Where did it say that?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:58:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Grivo_Mak:
They just didn't want Gretna to turn into Moghadishu and it would have.....guaranteed.



So Gretna police had no choice but to steal the Hurricane victem's food and water at gun point?



Where did it say that?



The articles at the end.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:00:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Grivo_Mak:
They just didn't want Gretna to turn into Moghadishu and it would have.....guaranteed.



So Gretna police had no choice but to steal the Hurricane victem's food and water at gun point?



Where did it say that?



The articles at the end.



It does not say the officer took the items at gun point.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:04:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

It does not say the officer took the items at gun point.



"With nowhere to go, they set up a makeshift camp in the middle of the highway. The plan was to spend the night on the bridge and try to cross again the next day. But then a vehicle with Gretna police markings drove up.

“He sped down in his cruiser and over the loudspeaker he just continuously said, ‘Get the f*** off the bridge,’” a male eyewitness who was on the bridge that day told Bradley. “And would point his gun at some people.”

At that point a helicopter dropped close to the encampment and its downdraft blew things everywhere, forcing the evacuees off the bridge"

...

Instead, a suburban police officer angrily ordered about 200 people to abandon an encampment between the highways near the bridge. The officer then confiscated their food and water, the four witnesses said.

...

"And when exhausted hurricane victims set up temporary shelters on the highway, Gretna police came back a few hours later, fired shots into the air again, told people to "get the f -- off the bridge" and used a helicopter to blow down all the makeshift shelters, the paramedics said.

When the officers had pushed the crowd back far enough, one of them took the group's food and water, dropped it in the trunk of a patrol car and drove away. "

...

Yes it does
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:08:04 AM EDT
I put no faith in anything someone says who was in that area as an evacuee.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:11:55 AM EDT
I got to that lovely little hell hole 1 September.

There was more than one Parrish where the Parrish Pres.
said. "No." to any of the refugees.

They deputized anyone they could find, gave them guns, or
they brought their own, and, manned the checkpoints on the borders.

I don't blame them one damn bit.

Not ONE bit.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:14:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 8:14:59 AM EDT by R_S]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I put no faith in anything someone says who was in that area as an evacuee.



Okay.

But lets imagine for a moment that events did happen as said in the articles. You're in that camp on the bridge. You're a victim of one of the worst disasters in modern US history. It's really hot. You're without shelter and some guys with guns come along and try to take all your food and water.

You may die without that water they're taking.

What do you do Bama-Shooter?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:15:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I put no faith in anything someone says who was in that area as an evacuee.



+1. I was in Destrehan and Waggaman, and, I was friggin'
worried. LA hadn't cleared weapons for security use without
certification yet, so, I wasn't allowed to bring my weapons.

I don't blame those cops one bit.

I told my boss if I ever went into another hurricane area, I was
bringing weapons. Period. If I can't, don't call me.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:15:22 AM EDT
The government has no right to restrict your free travel. This is a case of the government creating its own need. Create dependency on government for food, clothing and shelter. Create dependency on police for security. Now there is a "need" to restrict travel to keep babies with the poopy diapers from the babies with the pacifiers.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:19:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I put no faith in anything someone says who was in that area as an evacuee.



Okay.

But lets imagine for a moment that events did happen as said in the articles. You're in that camp on the bridge. You're a victim of one of the worst disasters in modern US history. It's really hot. You're without shelter and some guys with guns come along and try to take all your food and water.

You may die without that water they're taking.

What do you do Bama-Shooter?



Again that is not what the article stated. They could have taken their supplies with them as they retreated.

And again, I put no faith in what any so called witnesses have to say.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:20:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I put no faith in anything someone says who was in that area as an evacuee.



Okay.

But lets imagine for a moment that events did happen as said in the articles. You're in that camp on the bridge. You're a victim of one of the worst disasters in modern US history. It's really hot. You're without shelter and some guys with guns come along and try to take all your food and water.

You may die without that water they're taking.

What do you do Bama-Shooter?



Bama wouldn't have been in that situation because he's got half a brain.

I don't for one damn second beleive the cops took the poor little evacuees food and water.

It'd fucking Ed Bradley and 60 minutes for god's sakes.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:20:29 AM EDT
They would have had something to fear if I were in that crowd. What they did was unconscionable and illegal. Even if they could find justification to not allow them into the city, the least they could do is let them stay high and dry on the bridge and, I don't know, bring them some cokes and a bag of chips. It was just a couple hundred people.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:23:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:
The government has no right to restrict your free travel. This is a case of the government creating its own need. Create dependency on government for food, clothing and shelter. Create dependency on police for security. Now there is a "need" to restrict travel to keep babies with the poopy diapers from the babies with the pacifiers.



The sad thing is you have no idea of what you are saying.

If I was the Mayor, I would've done the same thing.

There were many reports of the poor victims "freely traveling" into people's
homes to take thier stuff.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:23:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrNatural:
They would have had something to fear if I were in that crowd. What they did was unconscionable and illegal. Even if they could find justification to not allow them into the city, the least they could do is let them stay high and dry on the bridge and, I don't know, bring them some cokes and a bag of chips. It was just a couple hundred people.



That whole section of bridge going from NO to the Gretna/Algiers area is totally above water for miles and miles. Plenty of room. That is where all the news trucks were that were filming the superdome.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:25:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:
The government has no right to restrict your free travel. This is a case of the government creating its own need. Create dependency on government for food, clothing and shelter. Create dependency on police for security. Now there is a "need" to restrict travel to keep babies with the poopy diapers from the babies with the pacifiers.



Of course they can restrict travel. The .gov shuts down roads all the time in the event of disasters, accidents and visiting politicians. Happens everyday.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:28:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Bama wouldn't have been in that situation because he's got half a brain.



I'm sure most of us would avoid ever being in that situation.

But I could imagine situations with no advanced warning where even ARFCOM members might be in such a situation. Say terrorists nuke your city or something.

Just cause you would avoid the situation, doesn't mean its not a valid question.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:29:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrNatural:
Even if the ants could find justification to not allow them into the city, the least they could do is let them stay high and dry on the bridge and, I don't know, bring them some cokes and a bag of chips. It was just a couple hundred grasshoppers.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:29:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By MrNatural:
They would have had something to fear if I were in that crowd. What they did was unconscionable and illegal. Even if they could find justification to not allow them into the city, the least they could do is let them stay high and dry on the bridge and, I don't know, bring them some cokes and a bag of chips. It was just a couple hundred people.



That whole section of bridge going from NO to the Gretna/Algiers area is totally above water for miles and miles. Plenty of room. That is where all the news trucks were that were filming the superdome.



Lots of intraweb experts, I'm sure, have ho idea how long or big the Cresent City Connection is.
Plenty of room.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:32:25 AM EDT
<I>That whole section of bridge going from NO to the Gretna/Algiers area is totally above water for miles and miles. Plenty of room. That is where all the news trucks were that were filming the superdome</I>

I am very familliar with the area. If I had walked from downtown New Orleans to Gretna, the last thing in the world I would want to do is turn around and go back. Particularly at night with all that was going on there.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:32:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Bama wouldn't have been in that situation because he's got half a brain.



I'm sure most of us would avoid ever being in that situation.

But I could imagine situations with no advanced warning where even ARFCOM members might be in such a situation. Say terrorists nuke your city or something.

Just cause you would avoid the situation, doesn't mean its not a valid question.




I would have gathered up my gear and family, moved out and tried another way out.

What do you think would happen a shootout with the cops?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:33:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Bama wouldn't have been in that situation because he's got half a brain.



I'm sure most of us would avoid ever being in that situation.

But I could imagine situations with no advanced warning where even ARFCOM members might be in such a situation. Say terrorists nuke your city or something.

Just cause you would avoid the situation, doesn't mean its not a valid question.




The point is your question is invalid to the story, or point at hand.

I don't live in a city, either.

I do not think the cops drew down on the poor refugees and took thier food or water.

There was plenty of food and water to be had in Gretna, and, Algiers.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:34:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrNatural:
<I>That whole section of bridge going from NO to the Gretna/Algiers area is totally above water for miles and miles. Plenty of room. That is where all the news trucks were that were filming the superdome</I>

I am very familliar with the area. If I had walked from downtown New Orleans to Gretna, the last thing in the world I would want to do is turn around and go back. Particularly at night with all that was going on there.



The bridge was the safest area to be in at the time.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:36:44 AM EDT
The media portrayed New Orleans as a lawless zoo, then they're outraged when cities around New Orleans dont want what they've seen on tv and coming to their town. Best part was Ed Bradley judging the mayor and chief of Gretna for not opening their doors to the refugees from New Orleans when they had no shelter, facilities, supplies, etc to share. I wonder if the doubtlessly high-rent community Ed Bradley lives in would have done the same.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:37:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:
The government has no right to restrict your free travel. This is a case of the government creating its own need. Create dependency on government for food, clothing and shelter. Create dependency on police for security. Now there is a "need" to restrict travel to keep babies with the poopy diapers from the babies with the pacifiers.



The sad thing is you have no idea of what you are saying.

If I was the Mayor, I would've done the same thing.

There were many reports of the poor victims "freely traveling" into people's
homes to take thier stuff.



Just because you would act like a JBT, too, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm saying. You'd better get in there and shoot everyone now in case there is another hurricane.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:37:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 8:39:55 AM EDT by A_Free_Man]
Can't say that I blame them for stopping the crossing.


Look at a map. That bridge (which I have driven over, I have been through there numerous times), the Crescent City Connection, is 8 lanes wide (or more). It goes over into Gretna, but does not go to ground level. That highway continues as a highrise and eventually connects to Highway 90 heading out to the west, a major artery out of New Orleans.

The "Twin Spans" (I-10) going east were down. Besides, that direction headed to more devastation.

I-10 West headed out northward to Baton Rouge. It would have required a walk of 30 miles or so over swamp, no way to get off there. But that portion was unreachable due to high water at street level (6'-12') between the downtown are (where the Crescent City Connection comes into New Orleans) and I-10 West. There is no way they could have walked to I-10 W.

They could not get to the Huey P. Long Bridge (which crosses the Mississippi) and go to Hwy 90W directly because of the same high water. The only way to reach Hwy 90W, and get out of New Orleans, was over the Crescent City Connection.

There was no flooding in Gretna... none, nada, zilch.

Remember kiddies, the nice man in the uniform is your friend, he is there to help you.


"When the officers had pushed the crowd back far enough, one of them took the group's food and water, dropped it in the trunk of a patrol car and drove away. "

I have no words that can express my feelings about this.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:43:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:
The government has no right to restrict your free travel. This is a case of the government creating its own need. Create dependency on government for food, clothing and shelter. Create dependency on police for security. Now there is a "need" to restrict travel to keep babies with the poopy diapers from the babies with the pacifiers.



The sad thing is you have no idea of what you are saying.

If I was the Mayor, I would've done the same thing.

There were many reports of the poor victims "freely traveling" into people's
homes to take thier stuff.



Just because you would act like a JBT, too, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm saying. You'd better get in there and shoot everyone now in case there is another hurricane.



I love how you leap from preventing a mob to enter a community to gunning them
down in the street. Nice leap.

As was said before... .gov closes down public roads many times for any variety of reasons.

We drove into NOLA on 90 and there were numerous checkpoints that were turning away
people that had no buisness going in there from outside of the area, too.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:44:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Can't say that I blame them for stopping the crossing.


Look at a map. That bridge (which I have driven over, I have been through there numerous times), the Crescent City Connection, is 8 lanes wide (or more). It goes over into Gretna, but does not go to ground level. That highway continues as a highrise and eventually connects to Highway 90 heading out to the west, a major artery out of New Orleans.

The "Twin Spans" (I-10) going east were down. Besides, that direction headed to more devastation.

I-10 West headed out northward to Baton Rouge. It would have required a walk of 30 miles or so over swamp, no way to get off there. But that portion was unreachable due to high water at street level (6'-12') between the downtown are (where the Crescent City Connection comes into New Orleans) and I-10 West. There is no way they could have walked to I-10 W.

They could not get to the Huey P. Long Bridge (which crosses the Mississippi) and go to Hwy 90W directly because of the same high water. The only way to reach Hwy 90W, and get out of New Orleans, was over the Crescent City Connection.

There was no flooding in Gretna... none, nada, zilch.

Remember kiddies, the nice man in the uniform is your friend, he is there to help you.


"When the officers had pushed the crowd back far enough, one of them took the group's food and water, dropped it in the trunk of a patrol car and drove away. "

I have no words that can express my feelings about this.




The bridge does go down to ground level for the Gen DeGaulle exit and onto Whitney Ave. It then goes back up for about 4 or so miles then back down to street level. This then connects with the Huey Long Bridge. The Huey P. Long bridge WAS the only way to get in and out of the downtown NO area.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:46:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I would have gathered up my gear and family, moved out and tried another way out.



You're choice. Somehow I'm skeptical that it's a truthful answer.

What would you call somebody who stole all the food and water from 200 disaster victims at gunpoint?

I mean armed robbery really doesn't describe it. A better description might me attempted mass murder. If someone died, it would be capital murder in Texas. Death penalty and all that.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:46:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 8:48:03 AM EDT by AeroE]
So hundreds up to 6000 people evacuating couldn't overcome the police department from a town of population 17000?

Sheeple. Even those white officers are not going to murder folks from New Orleans for escaping the flood.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:47:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Can't say that I blame them for stopping the crossing.


Look at a map. That bridge (which I have driven over, I have been through there numerous times), the Crescent City Connection, is 8 lanes wide (or more). It goes over into Gretna, but does not go to ground level. That highway continues as a highrise and eventually connects to Highway 90 heading out to the west, a major artery out of New Orleans.

The "Twin Spans" (I-10) going east were down. Besides, that direction headed to more devastation.

I-10 West headed out northward to Baton Rouge. It would have required a walk of 30 miles or so over swamp, no way to get off there. But that portion was unreachable due to high water at street level (6'-12') between the downtown are (where the Crescent City Connection comes into New Orleans) and I-10 West. There is no way they could have walked to I-10 W.

They could not get to the Huey P. Long Bridge (which crosses the Mississippi) and go to Hwy 90W directly because of the same high water. The only way to reach Hwy 90W, and get out of New Orleans, was over the Crescent City Connection.

There was no flooding in Gretna... none, nada, zilch.

Remember kiddies, the nice man in the uniform is your friend, he is there to help you.


"When the officers had pushed the crowd back far enough, one of them took the group's food and water, dropped it in the trunk of a patrol car and drove away. "

I have no words that can express my feelings about this.




Hmm...Guess when I crossed the HPL bridge on 1 september into NOLA, I had pontoons on my vehicle.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:48:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I would have gathered up my gear and family, moved out and tried another way out.



You're choice. Somehow I'm skeptical that it's a truthful answer.

What would you call somebody who stole all the food and water from 200 disaster victims at gunpoint?

I mean armed robbery really doesn't describe it. A better description might me attempted mass murder. If someone died, it would be capital murder in Texas. Death penalty and all that.



Too funny.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:48:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I would have gathered up my gear and family, moved out and tried another way out.



You're choice. Somehow I'm skeptical that it's a truthful answer.

What would you call somebody who stole all the food and water from 200 disaster victims at gunpoint?

I mean armed robbery really doesn't describe it. A better description might me attempted mass murder. If someone died, it would be capital murder in Texas. Death penalty and all that.



They got the food and water for 200 people in the back of 1 patrol car?

Doubt it.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:48:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:
The government has no right to restrict your free travel. This is a case of the government creating its own need. Create dependency on government for food, clothing and shelter. Create dependency on police for security. Now there is a "need" to restrict travel to keep babies with the poopy diapers from the babies with the pacifiers.



The sad thing is you have no idea of what you are saying.

If I was the Mayor, I would've done the same thing.

There were many reports of the poor victims "freely traveling" into people's
homes to take thier stuff.



Just because you would act like a JBT, too, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm saying. You'd better get in there and shoot everyone now in case there is another hurricane.



I love how you leap from preventing a mob to enter a community to gunning them
down in the street. Nice leap.

As was said before... .gov closes down public roads many times for any variety of reasons.

We drove into NOLA on 90 and there were numerous checkpoints that were turning away
people that had no buisness going in there from outside of the area, too.



I don't think it's that great a leap from denying people rights to seek security based on prevention of potential criminal activity and denying them their life based on slightly earlier prevention. You aren't making leaps or even any connections. They did it. I would do it. We've done it before. We'll do it again.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:50:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I would have gathered up my gear and family, moved out and tried another way out.



You're choice. Somehow I'm skeptical that it's a truthful answer.

What would you call somebody who stole all the food and water from 200 disaster victims at gunpoint?

I mean armed robbery really doesn't describe it. A better description might me attempted mass murder. If someone died, it would be capital murder in Texas. Death penalty and all that.



They got the food and water for 200 people in the back of 1 patrol car?

Doubt it.



I doubt it a whole bunch.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:50:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I do not think the cops drew down on the poor refugees and took thier food or water.

There was plenty of food and water to be had in Gretna, and, Algiers.



If that's true, and there was plenty of food and water in Gretna, why couldn't they provide it to some of the victims?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:52:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:
The government has no right to restrict your free travel. This is a case of the government creating its own need. Create dependency on government for food, clothing and shelter. Create dependency on police for security. Now there is a "need" to restrict travel to keep babies with the poopy diapers from the babies with the pacifiers.



The sad thing is you have no idea of what you are saying.

If I was the Mayor, I would've done the same thing.

There were many reports of the poor victims "freely traveling" into people's
homes to take thier stuff.



Just because you would act like a JBT, too, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm saying. You'd better get in there and shoot everyone now in case there is another hurricane.



I love how you leap from preventing a mob to enter a community to gunning them
down in the street. Nice leap.

As was said before... .gov closes down public roads many times for any variety of reasons.

We drove into NOLA on 90 and there were numerous checkpoints that were turning away
people that had no buisness going in there from outside of the area, too.



I don't think it's that great a leap from denying people rights to seek security based on prevention of potential criminal activity and denying them their life based on slightly earlier prevention. You aren't making leaps or even any connections. They did it. I would do it. We've done it before. We'll do it again.



I'm not making leaps to connect two things that aren't connected in any way.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:54:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I do not think the cops drew down on the poor refugees and took thier food or water.

There was plenty of food and water to be had in Gretna, and, Algiers.



If that's true, and there was plenty of food and water in Gretna, why couldn't they provide it to some of the victims?



Because it belonged to the people of Gretna, not the people of NOLA.

Gretna was no picnic, either.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:54:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I would have gathered up my gear and family, moved out and tried another way out.



You're choice. Somehow I'm skeptical that it's a truthful answer.

What would you call somebody who stole all the food and water from 200 disaster victims at gunpoint?

I mean armed robbery really doesn't describe it. A better description might me attempted mass murder. If someone died, it would be capital murder in Texas. Death penalty and all that.



Too funny.



Kinda wondering which part is funny???
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:55:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I do not think the cops drew down on the poor refugees and took thier food or water.

There was plenty of food and water to be had in Gretna, and, Algiers.



If that's true, and there was plenty of food and water in Gretna, why couldn't they provide it to some of the victims?



Because it belonged to the people of Gretna, not the people of NOLA.

Gretna was no picnic, either.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:56:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I would have gathered up my gear and family, moved out and tried another way out.



You're choice. Somehow I'm skeptical that it's a truthful answer.

What would you call somebody who stole all the food and water from 200 disaster victims at gunpoint?

I mean armed robbery really doesn't describe it. A better description might me attempted mass murder. If someone died, it would be capital murder in Texas. Death penalty and all that.



They got the food and water for 200 people in the back of 1 patrol car?

Doubt it.



I doubt it a whole bunch.



WTF? They were sharing the little that they had? Did you read the articles?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:57:33 AM EDT
Since we're having this discussion. Tell me about the people that were turned back because they had no business down there. I find it surprising that someone would go through the effort to get to a city with no services if they had no business.

Did anyone say "My house is there and I want to check on it?" and were they turned away?
Did anyone say "My business is there and I want to check on it?" and were they turned away for having no business there?
Did anyone say "My family member is there and I want to check on them?" and were they turned away?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:59:04 AM EDT
amazingly balanced story for "60 minutes"! usually ed bradley is out there villifying whitey and doing his black power schtick...
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:03:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 9:12:55 AM EDT by nightstalker]
New Orleans was under martial law for a reason. If places like Gretna wanted to be on an equal footing they would have had martial law also. It's a no-win situation and a PR nightmare but I'm thinking Gretna had done what they thought was the right thing in the beginning and then realized they COULD be swamped by some adverse conditions and closed it down.

I found this on line...

"

A barge that was hit dumped diesel into Gretna’s water supply. Water all over the area is contaminated, even in downtown New Orleans."

if true it just adds to the story that Gretna was not able to take much on.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:03:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By R_S:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I would have gathered up my gear and family, moved out and tried another way out.



You're choice. Somehow I'm skeptical that it's a truthful answer.

What would you call somebody who stole all the food and water from 200 disaster victims at gunpoint?

I mean armed robbery really doesn't describe it. A better description might me attempted mass murder. If someone died, it would be capital murder in Texas. Death penalty and all that.



Too funny.



Kinda wondering which part is funny???



It's funny because I don't believe anyone took food and water by gun point from those people.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:06:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
New Orleans was under martial law for a reason. If places like Gretna wanted to be on an equal footing they would have had martial law also. It's a no-win situation and a PR nightmare but I'm thinking Gretna had done what they thought was the right thing in the beginning and then realized they COULD be swamped by some adverse conditions and closed it down.



Part of that reason was that the government wasn't letting people in or out and at the same time fucking up the relief operation and taking the guns away from innocent people.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:11:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
New Orleans was under martial law for a reason. If places like Gretna wanted to be on an equal footing they would have had martial law also. It's a no-win situation and a PR nightmare but I'm thinking Gretna had done what they thought was the right thing in the beginning and then realized they COULD be swamped by some adverse conditions and closed it down.



The whole area was under martial law/disaster law. You had to have travel papers to get in and out.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:12:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:
Since we're having this discussion. Tell me about the people that were turned back because they had no business down there. I find it surprising that someone would go through the effort to get to a city with no services if they had no business.

Did anyone say "My house is there and I want to check on it?" and were they turned away?
Did anyone say "My business is there and I want to check on it?" and were they turned away for having no business there?
Did anyone say "My family member is there and I want to check on them?" and were they turned away?



As a matter of fact, yes. That's exactly what they were doing.
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