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Posted: 12/21/2005 4:31:51 PM EDT
I don't live in the US. If my guns are confiscated, am I a coward for moving to the US so I can own guns again, instead of staying were I am and using the rest of my life to make them pay?

Or, if after confiscation, I stay were I am and make them pay, am I a fool for not admitting that I've been defeated and for throwing the rest of my life away on a lost cause.

Are the judgments to be made here absolute or relative, i.e. up to the individual how must injustice he's willing to tolerate. My gut says fight and my head says leave.

Also "make them pay" is not meant to infer illegal activity, violence, or anything that could result in a conviction. I can see an American saying " from my cold dead hands" because you wouldn't have anywhere left to go, but I could still move to the US.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:34:18 PM EDT
how about western canada secedes and splits off from ontario? (assuming that's not where you live currently)
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:37:38 PM EDT
Ambush
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:39:17 PM EDT
I don't know about your Founding Fathers, or maybe Founding Mothers in your case, but ours said we should fight back.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:39:23 PM EDT
If I were you, I would either go to war, or move to the US in that case. I would not surrender.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:40:02 PM EDT
I made Massachusetts pay for their shitty gun laws by moving to New Hampshire, taking about $6,000 a year in taxes with me. Not only did I not feel like a coward, when I pointed out my NH license plates to a liberal co-worker, who rolled his eyes at me, I felt quite satisfied.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:41:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:43:22 PM EDT
The problem is you dont have a guaranteed right to own guns and if you make a stand you will end up in jail with no hope of a constitutional decision in court.

Move here and join our fight. Canada is lost.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:43:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
how about western canada secedes and splits off from ontario and takes the name "America Junior?"(assuming that's not where you live currently)



Thats better.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:56:33 PM EDT
FFM, Western secession is not very likely, though it is the place where I'd have the most support. A 250 member Federal police unit is being formed to confiscate and I'm sure they are well vetted and will go wherever and do whatever they are told.

Dr. Jarhead.
Thanks for the kind sentiment. However as this is a public forum it may not be a good idea to discuss illegal activity, and may be against board rules. The confiscations won't take place unless the bad guys win the election. I have time to think over what's best to do if they win.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:01:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lukey:Dr. Jarhead.
Thanks for the kind sentiment. However as this is a public forum it may not be a good idea to discuss illegal activity, and may be against board rules. The confiscations won't take place unless the bad guys win the election. I have time to think over what's best to do if they win.



It's not illegal in the USA.

see the 2nd amendment and Marbury v. Madison
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:01:55 PM EDT
time for a boat trip! take your gun safe with you. And a life preserver.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:04:26 PM EDT
Freedom in 3 easy steps:

1. Throw their fucking tea in the harbor.

2. Repeat as necessary.

3. Enjoy new freedom.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:06:44 PM EDT
Moving to the US would hurt them somewhat, as I'd be retired, and even if I only lived to be 70, that would amount to a conservative 3/4 million$ out of the Canadian economy and into the US's. I was seriously considering moving to the US on retirement anyway, but now that confiscation has entered into it, so has the coward factor.

I would consider moving within the same country, as some of you have done, a tactic rather than maybe just running away.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:06:59 PM EDT
respond with bullets says Josey
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:07:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 20iner:
I don't know about your Founding Fathers, or maybe Founding Mothers in your case, but ours said we should fight back.



Not nice Let's have a little respect for our canadian bros.
Some of them left the British Empire to find freedom just like our ancestors did.

Of course they packed more longjohns
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:16:16 PM EDT


Battle at Lexington Green, 1775

Massachusetts Colony was a hotbed of sedition in the spring of 1775. Preparations for conflict with the Royal authority had been underway throughout the winter with the production of arms and munitions, the training of militia (including the minutemen), and the organization of defenses. In April, General Thomas Gage, military governor of Massachusetts decided to counter these moves by sending a force out of Boston to confiscate weapons stored in the village of Concord and capture patriot leaders Samuel Adams and John Hancock reported to be staying in the village of Lexington.

The atmosphere was tense, word of General Gage's intentions spread through Boston prompting the patriots to set up a messaging system to alert the countryside of any advance of British troops. Paul Revere arranged for a signal to be sent by lantern from the steeple of North Church - one if by land, two if by sea. On the night of April 18, 1775 the lantern's alarm sent Revere, William Dawes and other riders on the road to spread the news. The messengers cried out the alarm, awakening every house, warning of the British column making its way towards Lexington. In the rider's wake there erupted the peeling of church bells, the beating of drums and the roar of gun shots - all announcing the danger and calling the local militias to action.

In the predawn light of April 19, the beating drums and peeling bells summoned between 50 and 70 militiamen to the town green at Lexington. As they lined up in battle formation the distant sound of marching feet and shouted orders alerted them of the Redcoats' approach. Soon the British column emerged through the morning fog and the confrontation that would launch a nation began.

"Lay down your arms, you damned rebels…"

Twenty-three-year-old Sylvanus Wood was one of the Lexington militia who answered the call that spring morning. Several years after the event he committed his recollection to paper in an affidavit sworn before a Justice of the Peace which was first published in 1858:

"I, Sylvanus Wood, of Woburn, in the county of Middlesex, and commonwealth of Massachusetts, aged seventy-four years, do testify and say that on the morning of the 19th of April, 1775, I was an inhabitant of Woburn, living with Deacon Obadiah Kendall; that about an hour before the break of day on said morning, I heard the Lexington bell ring, and fearing there was difficulty there, I immediately arose, took my gun and, with Robert Douglass, went in haste to Lexington, which was about three miles distant.

When I arrived there, I inquired of Captain Parker, the commander of the Lexington company, what was the news. Parker told me he did not know what to believe, for a man had come up about half an hour before and informed him that the British troops were not on the road. But while we were talking, a messenger came up and told the captain that the British troops were within half a mile. Parker immediately turned to his drummer, William Diman, and ordered him to beat to arms, which was done. Captain Parker then asked me if I would parade with his company. I told him I would. Parker then asked me if the young man with me would parade. I spoke to Douglass, and he said he would follow the captain and me.

By this time many of the company had gathered around the captain at the hearing of the drum, where we stood, which was about half way between the meetinghouse and Buckman's tavern. Parker says to his men, 'Every man of you, who is equipped, follow me; and those of you who are not equipped, go into the meeting-house and furnish yourselves from the magazine, and immediately join the company.' Parker led those of us who were equipped to the north end of Lexington Common, near the Bedford Road, and formed us in single file. I was stationed about in the centre of the company. While we were standing, I left my place and went from one end of the company to the other and counted every man who was paraded, and the whole number was thirty-eight, and no more.

Just as I had finished and got back to my place, I perceived the British troops had arrived on the spot between the meeting-house and Bucknian's, near where Captain Parker stood when he first led off his men. The British troops immediately wheeled so as to cut off those who had gone into the meeting-house. The British troops approached us rapidly in platoons, with a general officer on horseback at their head. The officer came up to within about two rods of the centre of the company, where I stood, the first platoon being about three rods distant. They there halted. The officer then swung his sword, and said, "Lay down your arms, you damned rebels, or you are all dead men. Fire!" Some guns were fired by the British at us from the first platoon, but no person was killed or hurt, being probably charged only with powder.

Just at this time, Captain Parker ordered every man to take care of himself. The company immediately dispersed; and while the company was dispersing and leaping over the wall, the second platoon of the British fired and killed some of our men. There was not a gun fired by anv of Captain Parker's company, within my knowledge. I was so situated that I must have known it, had any thing of the kind taken place before a total dispersion of our company. I have been intimately acquainted with the inhabitants of Lexington, and particularly with those of Captain Parker's company, and, with one exception, I have never heard any of them say or pretend that there was any firing at the British from Parker's company, or any individual in it until within a year or two. One member of the company told me, many years since, that, after Parker's company had dispersed, and he was at some distance, he gave them 'the guts of his gun.'"

References:
Commager, Henry Steele, Morris Richard B. The Spirit of 'Seventy-Six vol I (1958); Fischer, David, Paul Revere's Ride (1994).


...welcome to the Revolution!





­

That's how we got people to recognize our 2nd Amendment Right.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:23:27 PM EDT
Up here we have to be very careful, as the whole purpose of the announced confiscation was to get us to react with screams and threats, and then the Liberals get to paint the Conservatives as "scary", a tactic that worked before but is wearing thin, needs new paint.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:29:12 PM EDT
Our for fathers did not make a stand in England, they moved here , and fought only when cornered. I think you should do what millions have done for freedom....come to the USA
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:31:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-steve:
Our for fathers did not make a stand in England, they moved here , and fought only when cornered. I think you should do what millions have done for freedom....come to the USA



I agree. Come on down, gain your citizenship, and then vote!!
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:34:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cavu:

Originally Posted By ar-steve:
Our for fathers did not make a stand in England, they moved here , and fought only when cornered. I think you should do what millions have done for freedom....come to the USA



I agree. Come on down, gain your citizenship, and then vote!!




Yeah, that's it, run away.

Organize up there bub. Get people together to form a resistance committee where you put political pressure on the government. Get the local police on your side. Because they'll come for them next. If not, there might be a bunch of dead cops up in Canada. I can't see people just "handing" them in. If they do....
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:19:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Cavu:

Originally Posted By ar-steve:
Our for fathers did not make a stand in England, they moved here , and fought only when cornered. I think you should do what millions have done for freedom....come to the USA



I agree. Come on down, gain your citizenship, and then vote!!




Yeah, that's it, run away.

Organize up there bub. Get people together to form a resistance committee where you put political pressure on the government. Get the local police on your side. Because they'll come for them next. If not, there might be a bunch of dead cops up in Canada. I can't see people just "handing" them in. If they do....



Easy to say when it isn't you behind the 8 ball.

I get what you are saying but I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing discretion.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:22:59 PM EDT
Actually, we're not doing too bad, the official opposition party is on our side. There are equivalents to the NRA up here but conflicting egos and apathy have sapped their strength. The article below has an indirect NRA connection that you might find amusing.

The Ottawa Citizen
Wednesday, December 21, 2005
Page: A5
Section: News
Byline: Glen McGregor
Column: Highway 308
Source: The Ottawa Citizen

Guns & Drugs
Elie Betito is known in political circles as the chief spokesman for generic drug company Apotex, and can often be seen on the Hill helping the company in its ongoing campaign for changes to patent drug rules. But Mr. Betito got a splash of ink this week for something entirely different over an e-mail he sent to Stacey Cherwonak, a sport shooter and forensic firearms expert with the RCMP in Ottawa.

As a volunteer on Liberal candidate Bonnie Brown's campaign in Oakville, Mr. Betito fielded Mr. Cherwonak's angry e-mail last week over the Liberal announcement about further restrictions on handguns. He closed his e-mail with, "you lying bastards."

Mr. Betito e-mailed back: "take your NRA , GUN LOVING ASS BACK TO THE U.S. WHERE YOU BELONG, E. BETITO."
Mr. Betito admits the e-mail was written in "a moment of insanity," and says he was provoked into the foolish move by the tone of Mr. Cherwonak's message and his concerns about the Dodge City environment in the Toronto 'burbs. He has resigned from Ms. Brown's campaign and apologized to Mr. Cherwonak.

But Mr. Betito says he now feels like he's the one in the crosshairs. Once his e-mail was posted on a blog, it spread rapidly among the guns 'n' ammo set across North America. He says he has received hundreds of e-mails from the U.S. and Canada, many threatening in tone.

"I have been bombarded," he said. "I got concerned about my welfare. I never knew the reach and breadth of these groups." Mr. Betito says some e-mails are suggesting a boycott of Apotex's drugs and others were sent to his bosses to demand he be fired.

One message confused his gender and began with the salutation, "You Liberal slut." One website posted his home address. 'This is the greatest level of intimidation I have ever seen,' Mr. Betito said, and that's something coming from someone who regularly picks fights with the most powerful industry in the world -- the brand-name drug companies.

And Take Your Beer and Popcorn With You
Meanwhile, Mr. Cherwonak is giving some serious consideration to taking Mr. Betito's advice. "I may be taking my gun-loving ass to the U.S. after all," he said. He is reconsidering his future in Canada because of the Liberal approach to gun control. He calls Liberal leader Paul Martin's proposal on new handgun restrictions "a grub for votes in Toronto," that may force him to relocate if he wants to continue competitive sport shooting.

The message from Mr. Betito did not surprise him, he said, given the party's past position on guns. It was one of only a few replies he received after blanketing Ontario Liberal MPs with his e-mailed message of protest.

One reply from a Liberal campaign worker came with a suggestion: "It said you better practise because Harper's going to send you to Iraq," he said.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:21:20 PM EDT


One website posted his home address. 'This is the greatest level of intimidation I have ever seen,' Mr. Betito said,



Good. Domestic enemies need to be identified.

As for you lukey, you are welcome here from my standpoint. Your country is damn near toast if you ask me. If you all come on down here we could kick the libs asses or maybe even run some of them to Canada. Eventually, we would take your country back for you if that occurred.

Better yet, have your western provinces, minus BC, join our fine nation and say to Hell with Toronto and Quebec. We'd love to have you.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:24:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Ambush



Yup, Id study that scene in Braveheart right after they cut his wife's throat, instead of using clubs and pitchforks you could use your firearms. If they already took your firearms, then you still have clubs and pitchforks to get new firearms. Too easy of a scenario for me.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:40:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Ambush



Yup, Id study that scene in Braveheart right after they cut his wife's throat, instead of using clubs and pitchforks you could use your firearms. If they already took your firearms, then you still have clubs and pitchforks to get new firearms. Too easy of a scenario for me.



I think I'd like you to explain that.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:58:27 PM EDT
The threatened confiscation is aimed at handguns and semiautomatic long guns. We could still keep other type action long guns. That they have openly and brazenly lied to gun owners about their intentions has come out in the press. They are simultaneousely moving on closing down gun shows, ranges, and access to parts and reloading components, by means of new and onerous regulations.

We know they won't stop till the gun culture in Canada is wiped out. Many have not registered their guns or have registered only part of what they have, so I heard. Based on import rate extrapolations there are about 10 million free guns still kicking around.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:30:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 4:36:29 AM EDT by ED_P]

Originally Posted By Lukey:
The threatened confiscation is aimed at handguns and semiautomatic long guns. We could still keep other type action long guns. That they have openly and brazenly lied to gun owners about their intentions has come out in the press. They are simultaneousely moving on closing down gun shows, ranges, and access to parts and reloading components, by means of new and onerous regulations.

We know they won't stop till the gun culture in Canada is wiped out. Many have not registered their guns or have registered only part of what they have, so I heard. Based on import rate extrapolations there are about 10 million free guns still kicking around.



I really wish we could divide up a country into people with the two differing mindsets.

We face the same threats here in the US. There was a thread earlier this week on a bill the most Liberal senators like Kennedy and Clinton created in Jan 2005, that would make possesion of most semi-auto long arms, and high capacity magazines illegal. We'd be left with bolt action, lever action, and handguns that can only accept 10 rounds or less. Any handgun even capable of taking a magazine bigger than 10 rounds would be illegal. And the punishment for not abiding by the bill, if passed, was a 10 year prison sentence. The liberals keep trying over and over, eventhough we have enough power currently to stave off these legal attacks, each year they'll keep trying to file these kind of bills for consideration.


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