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Posted: 12/21/2005 11:17:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:22:48 AM EDT
This was expected. I read the book and know who wins in the end. I have no worries.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:23:54 AM EDT
Well, on the red text they should, imo, try to be nondenominational at public events where you'll get a mix.

When I first read the article I thought the guy might just out there, but found out he's made efforts to help out members of every faith, so I'm tempted to call him legit.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:24:13 AM EDT
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:29:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:
Well, on the red text they should, imo, try to be nondenominational at public events where you'll get a mix.

When I first read the article I thought the guy might just out there, but found out he's made efforts to help out members of every faith, so I'm tempted to call him legit.



Just for clarification; nondenominational doesn't span multiple religions. A Christian nondenominational public event would be cool and since they are all Christian the chaplan should be able to pray in the name of Jesus. If its a Muslim event they should pray in the name of Allah, etc...

They should be able to pray to what ever deity or saviour according to their faith.

Shok
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:39:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter and thinking for themselves.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:42:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.



In the span on one generation. Go Boomers.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:42:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.



+1
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:43:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

They should be able to pray to what ever deity or saviour according to their faith.

Shok




Of course. But if the Chaplin is speaking to, say, an entire unit, that might have Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc together he should probably stick to stuff that binds them all together, rather than differences.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:44:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter and thinking for themselves.



No, it's because they are letting the ACLU and college professors who have never been off campus do their thinking for them.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:45:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter dumber and thinking for of themselves.



Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:48:06 AM EDT
The Navy has rules and regulations? WTF?

Damn liberals!
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:58:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter and thinking for themselves.



No, it's because they are letting the ACLU and college professors who have never been off campus do their thinking for them.



So now.....I let the ACLU and college professors who've never been off campus do my thinking for me?
Even though every college professor I've had, has been conservative?

Weird.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:01:12 PM EDT
NO MORE EXECUTIVE ORDERS! if getting executive orders becomes the norm to ensure our freedoms outlined and secured in the bill or rights, we are screwed. what unalienable rights are next? "excuse me mr. president, could you write me an executive order bathroom pass?" take those fucks to court. have people forgot the part that says..."or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"?you hire a chaplain that is an evengelical..... get ready to sing "just as i am" a million times,run to the altar, and then take a quick bath. if you are offended by that notion, dont go to the fucking service.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:01:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter dumber and thinking for of themselves.






It was right the first time, thanks.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:05:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter and thinking for themselves.



You know tyman, if you want to believe that there is no God, fine with me.

But don't make the mistake of believing that your beliefs make you "smarter" than those of us that are Christians.

We can disagree on theological issues without insulting each other.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:54:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter and thinking for themselves.



You know tyman, if you want to believe that there is no God, fine with me.

But don't make the mistake of believing that your beliefs make you "smarter" than those of us that are Christians.

We can disagree on theological issues without insulting each other.



Who said I didnt believe in God?

Your first mistake.

I dont make the mistake of believing that m beliefs make me smarter than "Those that are Christians".

Mistake two.

Who is disagreeing on anything?

I merely said that people are getting smarter and thinking for themselves nowadays. This includes: whether or not they want to believe in God and/or higher powers. They arent just blindly following what their parents think/do and what the Church says/does.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:56:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:59:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 7:59:49 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Sorry, Lordtrader, but this thread is a dupe!

Duped Thread

You should know better than posting anything about Jesus in anywhere other than in the Religion Forum.



Eric The(Uh-huh)Hun
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:16:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cnow:
NO MORE EXECUTIVE ORDERS! if getting executive orders becomes the norm to ensure our freedoms outlined and secured in the bill or rights, we are screwed. what unalienable rights are next? "excuse me mr. president, could you write me an executive order bathroom pass?" take those fucks to court. have people forgot the part that says..."or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"?you hire a chaplain that is an evengelical..... get ready to sing "just as i am" a million times,run to the altar, and then take a quick bath. if you are offended by that notion, dont go to the fucking service.



In this case, an EO is just the ticket...

The President (commander in chief) could resolve this without the time/money of a court battle by telling the Navy where they can stick their policy... No different than some Admiral changing the policy, just a lot higher level...

P.S. This Chaplain was on the Hannity show with this issue tonight...
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:19:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:
This was expected. I read the book and know who wins in the end. I have no worries.



I hate it when people tease!

Give us a hint!!

Does Jesus win in the end? Do the Jews?

How do freethinking folks such as myself fare? Do I get a couple virgins and a 6-pack at least?

Do tell.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:29:51 PM EDT
You are neither hot nor cold but are lukewarm, and because you are neither hot nor cold I will spew you from my mouth.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:33:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:
You are neither hot nor cold but are lukewarm, and because you are neither hot nor cold I will spew you from my mouth.



Is that some gay thing?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:42:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

How do freethinking folks such as myself fare? Do I get a couple virgins and a 6-pack at least?

Do tell.



Its not the "freethinking" part that gets you into trouble, its the rejecting Jesus part.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:49:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By swingset:

How do freethinking folks such as myself fare? Do I get a couple virgins and a 6-pack at least?

Do tell.



Its not the "freethinking" part that gets you into trouble, its the rejecting Jesus part.



I don't reject Jesus. I think he was a really ok guy. I'd listen to his message, if it weren't carried by Christians. I happen not to trust humans as to questions of God. Jesus, if he's as cool as I imagine he would be, would think I'm pretty freethinking for doing so.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:54:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By swingset:

How do freethinking folks such as myself fare? Do I get a couple virgins and a 6-pack at least?

Do tell.



Its not the "freethinking" part that gets you into trouble, its the rejecting Jesus part.



I don't reject Jesus. I think he was a really ok guy. I'd listen to his message, if it weren't carried by Christians. I happen not to trust humans as to questions of God. Jesus, if he's as cool as I imagine he would be, would think I'm pretty freethinking for doing so.



What about trusting God? Wouldn't a loving God want to give some kind of guidance to his people on earth?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:05:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter and thinking for themselves.



People were A LOT smarter one hundred years ago, and two hundred years ago. The entrance exam to the college I attended, in 1903, required translating the book of John from the original greek. Are you saying that we are smarter than Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, etc? You have A LOT to learn.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:21:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By swingset:

How do freethinking folks such as myself fare? Do I get a couple virgins and a 6-pack at least?

Do tell.



Its not the "freethinking" part that gets you into trouble, its the rejecting Jesus part.



I don't reject Jesus. I think he was a really ok guy. I'd listen to his message, if it weren't carried by Christians. I happen not to trust humans as to questions of God. Jesus, if he's as cool as I imagine he would be, would think I'm pretty freethinking for doing so.



What about trusting God? Wouldn't a loving God want to give some kind of guidance to his people on earth?



I trust God. I know whatever God is, he would not put his message in such a shitty, corruptable vessel and expect that message to reach all of his domain untainted.

I simply don't trust people. People wrote the Bible, people preach, people open churches, sin, lie, swindle, promise afterlife for certain actions, hell for others. People cannot be trusted to carry the message of God, and I know for me that God doesn't use people to speak.

When I was in search of answers, I talked to God, and he did not lead me to the Bible. In fact, every fiber of my being pushed me away from people who claim that ONE WAY, and ONLY THAT WAY, leads to heaven. As it turns out, the only comfort I've ever really felt spiritually comes from accepting that I was not designed to know his plan, or his expectations. I was only to live well.

Jesus knows my number, it's in the book. God does too, he's got my ear anytime. The rest of the world gets the answering machine, and I seldom call back.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:34:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lordtrader:
To pray -- or not to pray -- in Jesus' name is the question plaguing an increasing number of U.S. military chaplains, one of whom began a multiday hunger strike outside the White House yesterday.
"I am a Navy chaplain being fired because I pray in Jesus' name," said Navy Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt, who will be holding 6 p.m. prayer vigils daily in Lafayette Park.
The hunger strike is intended to persuade President Bush to issue an executive order allowing military chaplains to pray according to their individual faith traditions.



Military Chaplains tread a fine line in trying to serve the basic religious needs of everyone in uniform.

As for the individual faith traditions thing and praying in Jesus' name, I can see where that MIGHT cause a problem in certain uses. When I was in Alabama in September, there was one military member who during the public prayer she led started and ended every sentence during the 10 minute prayer with a loud, boisterous "Father Jesus". It was distracting to the content of the actual prayer, but we were told afterwards that thats standard praying technique among Black Southern Baptists. It had almost the entire military audience rolling their eyes afterwards. It would be one thing to invoke Jesus' name in the prayer introduction, but to go on and on about "Father Jesus" during the whole prayer...well, after September, I can understand where that CAN be overdone.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:55:54 PM EDT
I posted about this a few days back with a link to a site providing a petition against this but most everyone just posted the BS flag.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:48:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
This nation has done a complete 180 on almost every principle that led to it's founding.




Thats because people are getting smarter and thinking for themselves.



People were A LOT smarter one hundred years ago, and two hundred years ago. The entrance exam to the college I attended, in 1903, required translating the book of John from the original greek. Are you saying that we are smarter than Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, etc? You have A LOT to learn.



1. 200 years ago, not many "civilized" people could point to South America on a map and know what it was.
200 years ago, no one even knew what DNA was.
200 years ago, people still fought for God.

2. I'm saying that we are a lot more knowledgeable of the world around us and of science. Some people dont blindly follow the Church anymore like they did so wholeheartedly back then.
Dont forget, the Church also helped excommunicate one of the greatest thinkers of this planet....and held Witch Trials.
How smart is that?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:03:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:
This was expected. I read the book and know who wins in the end. I have no worries.



True.

-HS
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:19:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:44:49 AM EDT
you know, it ain't the "jesus" part of these protestant religions the navy is concerned with, it's the waving snakes about willy-nilly that freaks them out!

seriously though, does anyone in the .mil have any personal experience with this censorship??? catholics pray to jeebus too and i've NEVER seen a christian chaplain NOT mention our invisible friend freely...and all the marcor's chaplains are squids!

there's something screwy about that story.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:01:34 AM EDT
coincidentally, i was watching this show on mhz (kind of an international pbs) and they had this story about christianity in communist cuba. it's funny how jesus ISN'T passe when a dictator's boot is on your neck telling you there is no god.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 10:12:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

I trust God. I know whatever God is, he would not put his message in such a shitty, corruptable vessel and expect that message to reach all of his domain untainted.

I simply don't trust people. People wrote the Bible, people preach, people open churches, sin, lie, swindle, promise afterlife for certain actions, hell for others. People cannot be trusted to carry the message of God, and I know for me that God doesn't use people to speak.

When I was in search of answers, I talked to God, and he did not lead me to the Bible. In fact, every fiber of my being pushed me away from people who claim that ONE WAY, and ONLY THAT WAY, leads to heaven. As it turns out, the only comfort I've ever really felt spiritually comes from accepting that I was not designed to know his plan, or his expectations. I was only to live well.

Jesus knows my number, it's in the book. God does too, he's got my ear anytime. The rest of the world gets the answering machine, and I seldom call back.





Oh the irony. You object to Christianity (and any other religion) because it claims to know the truth about God, exclusive of everyone else, yet you believe that God has personally told you the REAL truth, and that it is different from what every other religion has taught. Your guilty of the same thing of which you complain.

But the real fallacy of your position is that you put a blind faith in yourself. What you "feel" about God is apparently ipso facto the truth. The problem with this position is that you are as fallable and as fallen as all those Christians you object to. Religion, when broken down to its core, is nothing more than an attempt to learn about the nature of God, and pass on the views of those who were held to be wise in the nature of Him. Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David, Solomon, and Daniel were all closer to God than I. Peter, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and the other Apostles were all closer to God than I. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, and John Calvin were all closer to God than I. Chrisitianity has preserved the views of these great men on God, and their teachings on what He requires of us. For that, I am eternally grateful because without the guidance of these wise men, I know that I would be lost in this world.



Link Posted: 12/22/2005 10:21:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By swingset:

How do freethinking folks such as myself fare? Do I get a couple virgins and a 6-pack at least?

Do tell.



Its not the "freethinking" part that gets you into trouble, its the rejecting Jesus part.



I don't reject Jesus. I think he was a really ok guy. I'd listen to his message, if it weren't carried by Christians. I happen not to trust humans as to questions of God. Jesus, if he's as cool as I imagine he would be, would think I'm pretty freethinking for doing so.



It doesn't work that way.

if Jesus was 'an OK guy', then He was lying about being the Son of God - in which case He wouldn't have been OK at all, but, rather, a no-good liar.


So, either Jesus was a no-good liar (which I can accept) or the Son of God.


Anything in-between is just play-nice BS to avoid the obvious.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:12:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
People were A LOT smarter one hundred years ago, and two hundred years ago. The entrance exam to the college I attended, in 1903, required translating the book of John from the original greek. Are you saying that we are smarter than Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, etc? You have A LOT to learn.


IN many ways,w e ARE smarter than people back then.

I don't know what school you attended(ed), but i could see where in some courses of study such as religious schools, a knowledge of classical languages was considered essential because of the general subject matter being studied.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:20:48 PM EDT
I think the more practical term here would not be that people were smarter back then so much as they were more practical, they lived in a hard world and learned hard lessons first hand and they didnt have the cushy society that we have these days. A lot more was required back then and it made for in some ways a purer society. But there were bad apples then and there are bad apples now.

There is not time in history where we can say that mankind was perfect. For every bit of religious enlightenment and those that follow the peaceful principles of Christ you have those that witch hunt and believe that they are doing God a favor by killing 'heritics'. For every group that discovers more parts of the intricacies of our universe, there are groups that use these very intricate things to say that there is no God and that we all came to be here by accident. There always have been and will always be people that twist God's word to their own purposes, and those that deny that God exists and unfortunately now in this PC world we live in we have the pussies that say you cant mention Jesus because that might offend someone but will call you a bigot if you try to put the restriction on someone mentioning allah or buddah. They will tell you that there is no place for Jesus in society anywhere but if you tell them that you dont want to hear about other gods or other faiths they will tell you to be more tolerant and 'celebrate diversity'

Its no suprise, all of this was fortold by Christ himself. So it is actually in some way a comfort when it happens. I cant really explain that, but it is, because you know what was said is being fullfilled and it is just one more step toward going home.
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