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Posted: 12/21/2005 10:54:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 10:55:13 AM EDT by motown_steve]
Out of curiousity, is the limited (and withering quickly) supply of milspec 5.56 ammo causing you to rethink your decision to use the AR-15 as your primary defensive rifle?

If so, then what are you think of (or have decided to) switch to?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:55:21 AM EDT
No. I reload, so supply is not an issue. YMMV
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:56:01 AM EDT
Nope. Dual progressive re-loading presses are my friend.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:56:38 AM EDT
Do you guys trust your reloads in a defensive situation?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:57:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys trust your reloads in a defensive situation?



Absolutely.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:57:10 AM EDT
well if you planned ahead like most of us did and stored some M193 or the like and just blast wolf or something else at the range, then it's not an issue.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:57:10 AM EDT
Yep, I'm selling all my ARs and getting some 10/22s, because there is anecdotal evidence that 22LR kills people.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:57:30 AM EDT
I would take the X!! You can throw the X and have a better chance of it sticking to the target. Unlike the AR15 which might just bounce off the target.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:57:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys trust your reloads in a defensive situation?



Absolutely.



Me too.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:57:58 AM EDT
I looked pretty far: .223

Seriously, look into the heavier weight loads from Black Hills in .223. They're not military pressure loads but still plenty lethal. And your guns won't suffer throat erosion as bad.

(FWIW 7.62/.308 is my primary caliber anyway but I'm stocking up on both like they're going out of style)
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:58:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys trust your reloads in a defensive situation?



Most people reload for training.
I'm pretty sure my 3500 rounds of Q3131A, 1500rnds of Federal and 900 rnds of SA battlepack will suffice in SHTF.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:58:23 AM EDT
Is there something wrong with using non-surplus ammo? I understand it is cheap, but I can buy Ga Arms .223 in ammo cans all day long at the gun shows.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:59:13 AM EDT
I switched to a ruger 10/22!
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:59:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
I would take the X!! You can throw the X and have a better chance of it sticking to the target. Unlike the AR15 which might just bounce off the target.



LOL

Reminds me of that baseball quote

"That's a great trade! Who did we get?"
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:05:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
well if you planned ahead like most of us did and stored some M193 or the like and just blast wolf or something else at the range, then it's not an issue.



I've got some (not much though) stocked away, and I just ordered a bunch of XM193 that I'll be stocking away.

However, when you look at the fact that other calibers are readily available, inexpensive, not constrained by fragmentation reliability and not subject to the same shortages that milspec 5.56 is then it should at least give you something to think about.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:07:44 AM EDT
.223 is fun and all, but for the SHTF, I'm all about my .308
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:09:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
I switched to a ruger 10/22!



87 rounds is less than $2
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:09:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
well if you planned ahead like most of us did and stored some M193 or the like and just blast wolf or something else at the range, then it's not an issue.



However, when you look at the fact that other calibers are readily available, inexpensive, not constrained by fragmentation reliability and not subject to the same shortages that milspec 5.56 is then it should at least give you something to think about.



Bullshit! When was the last time you tried to get .460 Wby Mag at walmart? Or any sporting goods store! If your lucky they have 1 box on hand!



Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:15:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
I would take the X!! You can throw the X and have a better chance of it sticking to the target. Unlike the AR15 which might just bounce off the target.



But only if it is the dreaded Red X, its more lethal.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:22:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 12:27:33 PM EDT by legalese77]

Originally Posted By NonConformist:

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
I would take the X!! You can throw the X and have a better chance of it sticking to the target. Unlike the AR15 which might just bounce off the target.



But only if it is the dreaded Red X, its more lethal.



this one:




or this one?:


Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:25:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:33:31 PM EDT
I just get my ammo in all calibers from Georgia Arms. No shortage whatsoever.

I don't even fire surplus in my Garands, 03A3, or M1 Carbine.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:38:33 PM EDT
I'm replacing all of my ARs with shotguns so I can take advantage of the 40" SWATH OF DEATH ® when defending my home.

(Sorry, snide reference to another recent thread... )
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:39:57 PM EDT
I could never trust my life to anything that does not have a projectile that tumbles through the air for maximum tissue damage.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:43:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ByteTheBullet:
Is there something wrong with using non-surplus ammo? I understand it is cheap, but I can buy Ga Arms .223 in ammo cans all day long at the gun shows.
ByteTheBullet (-:



They are based in Villa Rica. It has been a whiel since I been to a gun show.
I drove by there yesterday and decided to pick up 1000 rounds (2 ammo cans) for $160 while I was in the area. I absolutely Love Ga Arms.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:02:38 PM EDT
I am swapping out to a complete line of .38's, revolvers and lever guns.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:07:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 1:22:08 PM EDT by EPOCH96]
Not really, Academy here in Dallas has Q3131 in stock here lately for $4.23 per 20. I just got to start stocking up incase it becomes more difficult to find.

now if I could find a reliable source of Q3131A that would be sweet...

EPOCH
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:09:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:16:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Out of curiousity, is the limited (and withering quickly) supply of milspec 5.56 ammo causing you to rethink your decision to use the AR-15 as your primary defensive rifle?

If so, then what are you think of (or have decided to) switch to?




news to me, since there's xm193, new production q3131
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:50:18 PM EDT
Oh yeah, forgot to mention. Thanks to you, I also have a back up plan

Motown_Steve's old SAR1 with it's new sibling. And yes there is already a rivalry.

EPOCH

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:10:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:
Oh yeah, forgot to mention. Thanks to you, I also have a back up plan

Motown_Steve's old SAR1 with it's new sibling. And yes there is already a rivalry.

EPOCH

img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Jbays/beautyandbeast600x800.jpg



Better keep them separated - they might "hook up" and produce one of those ARs-with-an-AK-brake or one of those AKs-with-an-AR-stock...

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:13:15 PM EDT
I've never had a probelm getting all the .223 I need.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:14:05 PM EDT
what is this shortage you speak of? this is the first i have heard of it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:22:45 PM EDT
+1 Battle Axe, +4 vs. giant class humanoids
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:23:16 PM EDT
I miss SA as much as the next guy, but I would hardly say the supply of 5.56 is withering. It is just a bit more expensive. I do not plan on using cheap milsurp for defensive use anyway.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:31:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leakycow:
+1 Battle Axe, +4 vs. giant class humanoids



Bah. Useless for the Zombie invasion.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:39:56 PM EDT
Never let your supply drop below 10K rounds.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:44:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By leakycow:
+1 Battle Axe, +4 vs. giant class humanoids



Bah. Useless for the Zombie invasion.




dang! no wonder it was on sale for 35 copper pieces

Seriously, those of you with several K of 5.56 hoarded, how much of your ammo is already loaded in mags awaiting the day?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:47:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys trust your reloads in a defensive situation?



i have them in my carry gun....
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:50:24 PM EDT
Meh, maybe if millions of rounds werren't going overseas, there'd be more. Its not a huge deal for me though. Just got my first AR, and with it my first cast of 223. Wasn't to hard to get or to expensive. I might buy one more case before I go to Iraq in August.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:50:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 2:52:05 PM EDT by OrARGB]
I just bought a Keltec Sub 2000 as a truck/car gun. Not due to 5.56 ammo issues but to be compatible with Glocks I use. And...it folds in two and fits great in my BOB. It will work for fighting if necessary and better than a handgun IMO.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:11:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ring:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys trust your reloads in a defensive situation?



i have them in my carry gun....



Are you crazy! The DA will definitely charge you with murder if you ever have to use those! The jury will automatically find you guilty! At least, that's what I learned on ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:50:39 PM EDT
When SHTF, the last thing I will be worried about in my ammunition supply will be its "mil-spec" properties.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:23:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:24:49 PM EDT
I have so many S/A battle packs stored I didn't know there was a shortage.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:27:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stormtrooper:
what is this shortage you speak of? this is the first i have heard of it.



www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=217693

Lake City is over worked producing ammo for the GWOT, thus reducing the amount available for the civilian market.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:35:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 10:15:30 PM EDT by rexrider]
Shortage?

You can still buy XM193 PD by the case
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:46:13 PM EDT
I have roughly 4k rounds of XM193 and Q3131A in stash.

I am more or less rotating over to Wolf for general blasting and practice, at 130 bucks delivered it's dirt cheap by comparison to the XM193 which at it's cheapest I was able to get 2k for 360 bucks delivered.

For my serious target shooting purposes. I will resort to handloading 223Rem such as I do with 308, 300WinMag, and 50BMG.



Right now, my eyes are on getting lots of surplus 7.62Nato while the getting is good. I've missed out on things like Hirtenberg and others far too often. Managed to pick up 2400 rounds of Aussie F4 when Sportsman's Guide had it on stripper clips in bandoleers. I don't think I'm gonna be happy unless I have another 2k rounds stashed away.


The thing that really has me worried is the soon to be shortages of surplus components out there for 50BMG, no more demilled stuff getting released means my precious 50BMG 700grn AP pills are going to start drying up. I'd like to get another 2k bullets and a couple more kegs of powder while it's cheap. My cost for powder on a shot for shot comparision winds up being about the same for surplus 50BMG powder as it is for commercial 223Rem powder. IMR5010 going for around 28 bucks for an 8 pound keg and H322 for 223Rem going for around 24 bucks a pound.
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