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Posted: 12/21/2005 6:00:27 AM EDT
That didn't suck ass. If so, why is no one making one? I would think they'd fairly popular in occupied territory. Any thoughts?

CO
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:02:17 AM EDT
cuz ak's and ar's are plentiful and relatively cheap?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:03:06 AM EDT
Isn't it called the Kel-Tec SU-16?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:05:01 AM EDT
mini14s seem to be pretty popular.When one is for sale people always jump on them pretty quickly. I cant understand why.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:06:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
cuz ak's and ar's are plentiful and relatively cheap?



there you go!
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:08:40 AM EDT
If they would have been designed to accept AR mags..maybe. I never did understand that one. Ruger marketing genius at work ...I guess.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:08:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
cuz ak's and ar's are plentiful and relatively cheap?



They are both plentiful and cheap, but verbotten(sp?) in banned states. The Mini-14 or a similar platform passes the pussification test.

CO
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:16:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 6:16:58 AM EDT by LoginName]
What about the AC-556? (select fire Mini-14).

Full auto never sucks ass.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:17:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 6:25:36 AM EDT by Spudgunner]
I view a Mini-14 as both a weapon and a hobby in and of itself. Not a superlative weapon in terms of accuracy... but a fairly interesting hobby given the aftermarket stuff available for it. Out of the box, my Mini would usually shoot 5 rounds within a 6-7" diameter circle at 100 yards. Sucks, but that is not atypical at all.

Fortunately there are a number of things one can buy/do to improve upon this miserable accuracy. That's where the hobby part comes into play. Personally, I find this hobby aspect kinda fun. One other thing...there is something strangely appealing about this weapon to me and, apparently, many others. It does go bang every time regardless of what ammo I feed it.

Conclusion: To the right person/peoples the overall suckage factor is not out-of-bounds and I don't know that a more expensive, more accurate Mini would provide alot of incremental sales to Ruger (or whomever). Given the current price of a Mini-14 I might tend to go all the way and buy an M1A/M14 rather than a super-duper Mini-14.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:17:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Isn't it called the Kel-Tec SU-16?



+1
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:20:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Isn't it called the Kel-Tec SU-16?



+1



Or an AR-180.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:21:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kyreb:
If they would have been designed to accept AR mags..maybe. I never did understand that one. Ruger marketing genius at work ...I guess.




Talk to the boss. That was Bill Ruger Senior all the way. His Mini-14 was intended to be a miniature of the M14. An AR15 mag release would have broken the "graceful" curves of his little rifle and denied his company profit from a proprietary mag.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:25:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:27:20 AM EDT
The AR-15 plateform has become increasingly accepted for what it is. A very accurate rifle that has a pistol grip and a boatload of aftermarket accessories for it. When I tell people I coyote hunt with an AR they don't even bat an eye. Most comments are "You're like the 2nd or 3rd person to tell me about hunting with one of those. I understand they're really good rifles."

I owned a Mini-14 for several years. Tricked it out got it more accurrate but it still couldn't rival my AR.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:29:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:33:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jor-el:

Originally Posted By kyreb:
If they would have been designed to accept AR mags..maybe. I never did understand that one. Ruger marketing genius at work ...I guess.




Talk to the boss. That was Bill Ruger Senior all the way. His Mini-14 was intended to be a miniature of the M14. An AR15 mag release would have broken the "graceful" curves of his little rifle and denied his company profit from a proprietary mag.



That was the biggest turnoff for me, I like the look of the rifle but it shoulda used AR mags. When I was around 14 I wanted one REAL bad but I decided to go with an AR instead.

Still going to by one of the GB models one day though
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:39:44 AM EDT
When I bought my Mini14 paid a little over 200 for it in 1980 ARs were about 325-400. Now the new one list 700-800 and I know they can be bought cheaper. I kept mine for 6years and was disappointed with the accuracy. Since I can buy a new AR or build one for the same money why go with the Mini unless it's the only gun available in a banned state.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:41:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:

Originally Posted By jor-el:

Originally Posted By kyreb:
If they would have been designed to accept AR mags..maybe. I never did understand that one. Ruger marketing genius at work ...I guess.




Talk to the boss. That was Bill Ruger Senior all the way. His Mini-14 was intended to be a miniature of the M14. An AR15 mag release would have broken the "graceful" curves of his little rifle and denied his company profit from a proprietary mag.



That was the biggest turnoff for me, I like the look of the rifle but it shoulda used AR mags. When I was around 14 I wanted one REAL bad but I decided to go with an AR instead.

Still going to by one of the GB models one day though



The only one i would ever own is a gb model, found one bought one a couple of years ago unfired , I love mine , and mine shoots reasonable --about a 3 inch group at 100 with blasting ammo.

And they did have one in 308 at one time it just never made it to market, used an actual m14 bolt, and a 5 round mag.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:43:47 AM EDT
if mini's were in the price range of the SAR 1,2,3 there would be a good market for them
id buy a new one for $300-350
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:44:38 AM EDT
The mini-14 does not "suck".

Those that say it does are almost universally people that have never owned one.

I killed my first whitetail with one when I was 9.

My dad has carried one in the back of his truck for the last 20+ years.

The Mini is reliable (like anything, you gotta have good mags) and reasonably accurate out to 300m. I believe the farthest I ever took a deer with mine was right around the 220yd mark, using a Redfield 3-9X. I have seen NYPD ESU guys do VERY fast mag changes and they never bitched about the position of the safety.

The biggest problem with the Mini today, esp the GBs is that they are WAY overpriced.

A mini-14 at 450-550 bucks is a great little rifle.

A mini-14 at 650+ is a rifle that lacks all the good features of an AR with no way to remedy the issues.


Sheep
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:49:28 AM EDT
I prefer the operating system of the Mini-14 to the AR.

The design is much simpler, and it will shoot ammo that gave me problems with my AR. (Wolf and PMC)

My main issue is how horribly inaccurate the gun is once the barrel starts to heat up. It
really starts wandering all over the place at 100 yards. That, and I had the rear sight fall
off once when the gun got really hot. That was a big turn off.

I sold my Mini-14 last year, and just kept a couple 30 round PMI mags incase we get
another ban, and the Mini-14 is not on the banned list.


Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:04:05 AM EDT
Ruger is coming out with a new Mini 14. It has a heavy barrel, better scope mounts and some other impovements. The FFL next to my work had a magazine write up on it. Ruger hasn't said what is going to go for. I'll try and get a copy of the write up and post it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:05:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 7:10:24 AM EDT by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By Paul:
May be if you made it in a manly caliber like .308 and made it a big bigger. You could call it an M1A and get Springfield Armory to manufacture them.




I want a .243 version myself. I'd also like it as accurate as a 150$ used 30-30.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:23:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 8:25:03 AM EDT by LonePathfinder]
Given my financial constraints at the moment (college, then law school), the mini-14 is my only "combat" oriented rifle. Thus I have spent a lot of time looking at ways to improve the gun. I bought it for 500 dollars about 8 or 9 years ago NIB.

The new Mini-14's Ruger can shoot a bit better out of box. Usually 2 to 3 moa at 100 yards compared to an older Mini-14 at 3 to 4 moa out of box. Those wild statements about 5 to 6 moa I find hard to believe. I think on reason may be that people to not know the twist rate on their rifles. The mini-14 went through several different twists over its life.

You must have good fitting magazines to get them to work. It the magazine has "play" so that it will swing forward or back after its inserted it will jam. You can solve this problem with crappy mags by adding a little slag and filing it down. You can't use the magazine as a bipod as some carbine tactics have you do. Firing it causes the mag to jerk (that fore and back movement again) and jam. I bought some no name brand 30 round magazines from SG shortly after the ban for 12 dollars each and all 7 have worked flawlessly.

The new Mini-14's also don't seem to work with any thing over a 20 round mag. I don't know how this is, I don't own one, but all reports seem to indicate this. I suspect this might be BS but who knows.

The older Mini-14's with the wood hand guard looked cool in a M1 Carbine sort of way.

A "new" Mini-14 would be sell like crazy if it was ~500 dollars and shot 1 moa the way an AR can out of box. Even the mag issue is really a non issue these days; you can find cheap reliable hicap mags.

On my mini-14 I have installed a rigidity strut under the barrel. The idea is the exact opposite of free floating. It’s a 6" long carbon steel tub held in place by two flashlight mount clamps. One clamp is in the middle of the exposed barrel, and the other just in front of the gas block. A little dremmeling to get it to fit around the gas block (cosmetic only) and you're good. Solves a lot of the barrel whip problem. Between that, an ultimak scout rail, and a FH my mini-14 is a pretty decent shooter. It is usually a 2 moa gun from a prone position at 100 yards. I've never fired it off a bench actually.

But yes, current mini-14s are over priced. Build a 500 dollar, 1 moa gun (you don't need a bull barrel for this kind of accuracy) and they'd be a very popular weapon.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:40:15 AM EDT
I bought my Mini-14 new back in March of 1988. I bought the Mini because I didn't have enough green for an AR. The Mini was $320, and I bought it at a gun show. The first and only gun I have ever bought at a gun show. I bought the Ranch Rifle and wished I hadn't because I've only put a scope on it once and immediately took it back off, and the iron sights are very flimsy. The screws that hold the aperture on are weak, won't stay tight, and I've broken them trying to keep them tight. I didn't know about Lok-Tite at the time.

Also, I didn't know about the lack of good magazines for the Mini at the time either. I've seen the Ruger factory 20 or 30 round mags at a couple of places lately, but I don't want to spend $40 for one Mini-14 mag when I can get three AR mags for that price.

I like my Mini-14, but I can't tell you when the last time I shot it was. I just like the AR better.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:06:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 9:06:48 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By Spudgunner:
I view a Mini-14 as both a weapon and a hobby in and of itself. Not a superlative weapon in terms of accuracy... but a fairly interesting hobby given the aftermarket stuff available for it. Out of the box, my Mini would usually shoot 5 rounds within a 6-7" diameter circle at 100 yards. Sucks, but that is not atypical at all.

Fortunately there are a number of things one can buy/do to improve upon this miserable accuracy. That's where the hobby part comes into play. Personally, I find this hobby aspect kinda fun. One other thing...there is something strangely appealing about this weapon to me and, apparently, many others. It does go bang every time regardless of what ammo I feed it.

Conclusion: To the right person/peoples the overall suckage factor is not out-of-bounds and I don't know that a more expensive, more accurate Mini would provide alot of incremental sales to Ruger (or whomever). Given the current price of a Mini-14 I might tend to go all the way and buy an M1A/M14 rather than a super-duper Mini-14.


heh, mine was the opposite - accurate but a real jammamatic! i DID like all the bells and whistles you could hang of it, the fiberglass stocks, m-14 style flash suppressor/bayo lug, quick-detachable scope mounts, all the stuff my m1a has on it now!

casob is looking for affordable s/a rifles that are pc ("occupied territory"), that wouldn't incl ar's or 180's with their flash suppressors, bayo lugs, pistol grips. sounds like m1a's and the su-16's are about the only viable alternative...
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:11:28 AM EDT
I've had 2 of them over the years. Neither was anything I'd call "accurate". If they would build one that could shoot better than 8" groups out of the box, and make good mags available up to 30 rounds, I'd probably buy another one. I see no point in buying one for now, unless it's an AC556.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:13:35 AM EDT
A Mini-14 that doesn't suck ass? Its called an AR-15.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:24:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
The mini-14 does not "suck".

Those that say it does are almost universally people that have never owned one.

I killed my first whitetail with one when I was 9.

My dad has carried one in the back of his truck for the last 20+ years.

The Mini is reliable (like anything, you gotta have good mags) and reasonably accurate out to 300m. I believe the farthest I ever took a deer with mine was right around the 220yd mark, using a Redfield 3-9X. I have seen NYPD ESU guys do VERY fast mag changes and they never bitched about the position of the safety.

The biggest problem with the Mini today, esp the GBs is that they are WAY overpriced.

A mini-14 at 450-550 bucks is a great little rifle.

A mini-14 at 650+ is a rifle that lacks all the good features of an AR with no way to remedy the issues.


Sheep



Yea, actually it does suck.

My experience is with the Mini-30. Killed my first deer with it also. This, of course, was after I fixed the problem of the Mini DISASSEMBLING itself after every shot. Talk about ruining any confidence with a weapon.

I did the M-14/M1A NRA action bedding trick on mine, made it much more accurate, but only for a Mini. I was finally cured of Mini-disease when I bought my first AR just before the Ban, never looked back, now I've 4 1/2 plus one AR-10A4. I've still got the Mini, haven't seen it in like 5-7 years or so; same with my SKS. I should probably sell them.

Merlin
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:33:30 AM EDT

...mini14s seem to be pretty popular.When one is for sale people always jump on them pretty quickly. I cant understand why....

-I know why. It's because they haven't owned one before.
The idea of owning a Mini-14 is attractive.
The actual ownership is what you call one of them "learning experiences" in life.
------
I had a SS ranch 223 bought new sometime in the early-mid 1990's, it functioned well but the main complaint I had was that it really wasn't accurate. I paid $450 for it, and there were $120 Chinese SKS's that shot about as well. A $300 match barrel would have made it accurate, but then it would have cost what a Colt/M16 rifle would have anyway, that shot more accurate to begin with.
~
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:51:16 AM EDT
i've always wanted a GB model. what if you gave one the M14 accuracy treatment. anyone tried it?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:55:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:56:27 AM EDT
I have a mini-30 that I got nib about a year ago. The only mags that work are the 5 round ones. Why is it so hard to make a decent magazine? Then I got a clue and bought a lower at a gunshow and purchased a 16" kit from J&T. I've tried to sell it , but no takers.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:03:14 AM EDT
I don't have much sympathy for anyone that owns one.

How many seasons of the A-Team do you need to watch before you learn
that nobody can shoot them accurately.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:14:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

How many seasons of the A-Team do you need to watch before you learn
that nobody can shoot them accurately.




case closed, and I don't want to hear no jibba jabba

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:20:12 AM EDT
I bought a Chinese SKS in 1994 that sucked in accuracy and reliability. In 1995 I bought a Mini-30 and was really impressed with the accuracy (compared to my China-lemon)and reliability (with the 5rnd mag ). Over the years I have picked up a few other rifles chambered in7.62x39 which are just as accurate and reliable as the Mini-30 with greater firepower . I wish I could have the $400 I spent on the Mini-30 back but she is now a safe queen sitting on her throne in the back of the box!
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:36:38 PM EDT
I was looking at them before I bought my AR. Then I heard all the Horror Stories about their accuracy. Honestly, I have fired a Mini 14 a friend of mine had, and it didnt shoot bad, it just wasnt overly impressive.

I figured I wanted my first semi-auto rifle to shoot better than my ability allows, and bought an AR.

I do like the style of the Minis.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:46:45 PM EDT
The Mini-14 was great in the 80s when I was a kid and the A-Team was on. After that I moved on.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:47:25 PM EDT
Mini-14 accuracy. You don't suppose it would have anything to do with the barrel being a casting, would it? Nearly all Rugers use castings for making the major parts. I can recall pics of some of their product line in cast form and unfinished. On their revolvers, everything but the rear sight blade and grip screws and springs are cast. Ruger 77s used cast barrels in the past, though the 77VLE in .308 is specifically marketed as having a hammer forged barrel. That would explain the lousy accuracy when the barrel gets hot.
The .308 version proposed as the XGI (get it?) would have been a Rugerized M14 without the gas cylinder and cutoff switch. Rumors abound as to the reasons for failure of the design.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 12:38:31 AM EDT
I was reading an article from ruger yesterday, The company reps agreed that the older Rugers would only shoot 5"-6" groups outta the box @ 100 yrds.
The Mini's produced now are worlds better because of new technology and they Guaranteed they would shoot 1"-2" groups out of the box.
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