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Posted: 12/20/2005 12:36:14 PM EDT
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051220/ap_on_re_us/nyc_transit_strike_21;_ylt=Alrkv3VvD2934OWvTs.K5isp.gMB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

By LARRY McSHANE, Associated Press Writer
12 minutes ago



NEW YORK - The city's subway and bus workers went on strike Tuesday for the first time in more than 25 years, stranding millions of commuters, holiday shoppers and tourists at the height of the Christmas rush. A judge promptly slapped the union with a $1 million-a-day fine.

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State Justice Theodore Jones leveled the sanction against the Transport Workers Union for violating a state law that bars public employees from going on strike.

Attorneys for the city and state had asked Jones to hit the union with a "very potent fine" for defying the law.

"This is a very, very sad day in the history of labor relations for New York City," the judge said in imposing the fine.

The union vowed to immediately appeal, calling it an excessive fine.

The heavy penalty could force the union off the picket lines and back on the job. Its 33,000 members are already facing individual fines of two days' pay for every day they are on strike.

The courtroom drama came midway through a day in which the strike fell far short of the all-out chaos that many had feared.

The nation's largest transit system ground to a halt after 3 a.m. when the 33,000-member Transport Workers Union called the strike after a late round of negotiations with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority broke down Monday night. The subways and buses provide more than 7 million rides per day.

New Yorkers car-pooled, shared taxis, rode bicycles, roller-skated or walked in the freezing cold. Early morning temperatures were in the 20s.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who had said the strike would cost the city as much as $400 million a day, joined the throngs of people crossing the Brooklyn Bridge by foot.

"It's a form of terrorism, if you ask me," said Maria Negron, who walked across the bridge. "I hope they go back to work."

With special traffic rules in place, the city survived the morning rush without the monumental gridlock some had feared. Manhattan streets were unusually quiet; some commuters just stayed home.

Public officials carried out their threat of quick legal action, heading into a courtroom in Brooklyn to obtain sanctions against the union for violating state law. The transit employees could face fines of two days' pay for each day off the job.

The striking workers deserve a "very potent fine" for the walkout because of its economic and social cost, James Henly of the state attorney general's office said in court. But union attorney Arthur Schwartz accused the MTA of provoking the strike.

Gov. George Pataki said the union acted illegally and "will suffer the consequences."

No talks between the two sides were scheduled by Tuesday afternoon, though a union lawyer told a court hearing that his side was willing to sit down with a mediator.

It was New York's first citywide transit walkout since an 11-day strike in 1980. The main sticking points were pay raises and pension and health benefits.

"I'm not happy about this," said Yvette Vigo, whose teeth were chattering after she walked a couple of miles to pick up a company-run shuttle bus at Wall Street. "It's too cold to walk this far."

At one subway booth, a handwritten sign read: "Strike in Effect. Station Closed. Happy Holidays!!!!"

Huge lines formed at ticket booths for the commuter railroads that stayed in operation, and Manhattan-bound traffic backed up at many bridges and tunnels as police turned away cars with fewer than four people.

Transit workers took to the picket lines with signs that read: "We Move NY. Respect Us!"

"I think they all should get fired," said Eddie Goncalves, a doorman trying to get home after his overnight shift. He said he expected to spend an extra $30 per day in cab and train fares.

"It doesn't seem right to tie up the cultural and investment center of the world," said Larry Scarinzi, 72, a retired engineer from Whippany, N.J., waiting for a cab outside Penn Station. "They're breaking the law. They're tearing the heart out of the nation's economy."

The mayor put into effect a sweeping emergency plan, including the requirement that cars entering Manhattan below 96th Street have at least four occupants.

The union said the latest MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent. MTA workers typically earn from $35,000 as a starting salary to about $55,000 annually. The union said it wanted a better offer, especially since the MTA has a $1 billion surplus this year.

The contract expired Friday at midnight, but the two sides had continued talking through the weekend.

___

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:36:41 PM EDT
Should be 10M.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:43:54 PM EDT
Elliot Spitzer likes to stick his nose in things, how about starting a RICO investigation of organized labor?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:49:39 PM EDT
That's what happens when you get too dependent on other people for basic necessities.

They get to **** you at will.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:50:12 PM EDT
Greedy, greedy bastards.

Citizens are being denied access to thier jobs becasue
of those coward scumbags.

The Mayor should just fire them. It would probably
increase his popularity.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:50:57 PM EDT
By law they cannot strike.

Fine them. Fire them.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:51:04 PM EDT
doop police are coming.........
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:53:48 PM EDT
The other story is based on the strike, this is about their fine, I could give a shit less about them striking. I think it's funny that they are getting bent over like this.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:59:53 PM EDT
Transit workers like the sanitation workers even staged wildcats where the union did not even sanction a strike, I even remembered rulebook slowdowns, where the union went by the book and nothing got done, in the old days they tried to intimidate rank and file by jailing the union bosses, but it never worked, they were treated like returing POW's when released, NYC is too dependent on mass transit.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:04:32 PM EDT
I guess they did'nt get the "daily double" provision the city was seeking then? They requested the fine double every day and that each member started at $25,000 and doubled each day.

They should have hit the members too. The union will drag this out to try and look tough I'll bet, the members would have been at work tomorrow if they were going to be hit with $75,000 each in just two days.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:05:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Greedy, greedy bastards.

Citizens are being denied access to thier jobs becasue
of those coward scumbags.

The Mayor should just fire them. It would probably
increase his popularity.



What? Stupid NYkers should just learn to drive. I doubt wall street will fall in a day or two. Remember, the cabbies are probably happy as hell. There is always a upside to a story.
Access is not being denied unless someone is pinning down motorists in the street.
Mayor is just as much an asshole as any of the union people. And if they are not allowed to strike under law they are wrong, but it shows how dependant people have become on others. Tough shit to them.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:07:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Should be 10M.



Should you be fined if you decide not to go to work tomorrow?

The simple solution is to fire the workers and hire new employees. To fine them is to say they are required to work whether they want to or not.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:11:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Should be 10M.



Should you be fined if you decide not to go to work tomorrow?

The simple solution is to fire the workers and hire new employees. To fine them is to say they are required to work whether they want to or not.

They are idgit, it's in their contract.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:12:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Greedy, greedy bastards.

Citizens are being denied access to thier jobs becasue
of those coward scumbags.

The Mayor should just fire them. It would probably
increase his popularity.



What? Stupid NYkers should just learn to drive. I doubt wall street will fall in a day or two. Remember, the cabbies are probably happy as hell. There is always a upside to a story.
Access is not being denied unless someone is pinning down motorists in the street.
Mayor is just as much an asshole as any of the union people. And if they are not allowed to strike under law they are wrong, but it shows how dependant people have become on others. Tough shit to them.




If you didn't read it, the story said that police were turning away cars with
less than four people in them from coming below 96th Street.

So, the NYCers that know how to drive are being punished. That's what I meant.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:14:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

The union said the latest MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent. MTA workers typically earn from $35,000 as a starting salary to about $55,000 annually. The union said it wanted a better offer, especially since the MTA has a $1 billion surplus this year.





I don't see why they feel they are entitled to the share of the surplus especially if its not negotiated in their salary. If anything, the surplus should be an indication that rates should be lowered for the commuters.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:15:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Should be 10M.



Should you be fined if you decide not to go to work tomorrow?

The simple solution is to fire the workers and hire new employees. To fine them is to say they are required to work whether they want to or not.

Not so simple to fire transit workers, Bloomberg invoked the Taylor law to get the L.I.R.R. to return to work and maybe a solution would have an executive order from W himself ordering a 90 day cooling off period....
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:17:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hamel:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

The union said the latest MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent. MTA workers typically earn from $35,000 as a starting salary to about $55,000 annually. The union said it wanted a better offer, especially since the MTA has a $1 billion surplus this year.





I don't see why they feel they are entitled to the share of the surplus especially if its not negotiated in their salary. If anything, the surplus should be an indication that rates should be lowered for the commuters.

You'd think.


Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:18:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hamel:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

The union said the latest MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent. MTA workers typically earn from $35,000 as a starting salary to about $55,000 annually. The union said it wanted a better offer, especially since the MTA has a $1 billion surplus this year.





I don't see why they feel they are entitled to the share of the surplus especially if its not negotiated in their salary. If anything, the surplus should be an indication that rates should be lowered for the commuters.

You'd think.


Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:24:19 PM EDT
All this reminds me of why I love AR. 10 minutes from my house I can drop the hammer on my firebird and run 100 and not worry about cops. We have a trolley downtown that chicks think it's romantic if you drop 2 bucks and take em for a ride around the city at night. I can think of TONS of other reasons.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:24:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hamel:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

The union said the latest MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent. MTA workers typically earn from $35,000 as a starting salary to about $55,000 annually. The union said it wanted a better offer, especially since the MTA has a $1 billion surplus this year.





I don't see why they feel they are entitled to the share of the surplus especially if its not negotiated in their salary. If anything, the surplus should be an indication that rates should be lowered for the commuters.





Will never happen. MTA has a monopoly and they will make sure it remains a monopoly. The union has no right to strike because it wants a share of the surplus, but it also shows that NYC is cleaning up on a monopoly.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:27:48 PM EDT
"You're all fired."
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:29:00 PM EDT
It's only $30/union member.

It should be a couple thousand/member.

Willfully breaking the law??

Don't we get fined extra for that sort of thing?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:31:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cobra-ak:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Should be 10M.



Should you be fined if you decide not to go to work tomorrow?

The simple solution is to fire the workers and hire new employees. To fine them is to say they are required to work whether they want to or not.

Not so simple to fire transit workers...



It should be. All workers should have the right to not go to work, and not get paid, if they dont feel like it. they are employees, not slaves. All employers should have the right to fire any employee at will.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:34:15 PM EDT
Unions are the best thing that ever happened to the working man..........as long as another union doesn't stop him from getting to his job.

Transit 'workers' should be ordered back to work ASAP and those that don't show up should be fired. Their penalty for striking is no raise for 5 years. Fuck them. Public employees unions are way too powerful -- time to do something about it.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:34:59 PM EDT
Should be $400million.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:36:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:47:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

What? Stupid NYkers should just learn to drive.



This ain't exactly the same thing as the big strike by the dogsled dogs in Kalamazoo...



I'm sorry, K-zoo changed over to rickshaws a year ago as PETA was having fits about the dogs health and safety. I get your drift but I was always amused that NYC has a poor history of traffic into and out of the city. Basically, it's their way or no way. NYC is a place unto it's own self, it works but I sure would not export HOW it works.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:30:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

They are idgit, it's in their contract.



Maybe, but didn't their contract expire on Friday?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:43:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By cobra-ak:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Should be 10M.



Should you be fined if you decide not to go to work tomorrow?

The simple solution is to fire the workers and hire new employees. To fine them is to say they are required to work whether they want to or not.

Not so simple to fire transit workers...



It should be. All workers should have the right to not go to work, and not get paid, if they dont feel like it. they are employees, not slaves. All employers should have the right to fire any employee at will.

Collective bargaining agreements are protected by federal law with the National Labor Relations Board. Union members have Weingarten Rights. They cannot be fired without just cause, you and I may not agree with it but a collective bargaining agreement was an agreement by both sides, managment and rank and file. TWU is part of the Teamsters with a long tradition of work in the transportation industry. Unions have given us the 40 hour week, payment for overtime and night differential, safety violation abatements and dignity. My dad was a union man, he believed in an honest day's work meant an honest day's pay. He made more money therefore he could buy us that bigger house, send me to private school, he had job securtiy meaning that I knew there would always be food on the table and a Christmas tree full of presents. I owe a lot to unions, I remember my Dad cheering when the union leaders were released from jail. Did you know that the MTA carries more than 7 million pax a day, more than the populations of LA and Chicago combined or more than the population of 11 states combined, they work hard everyday with pressures, time constaints and stress. No one wants a strike but 3% of a salary increase is nothing compared to what corporation managers give themselves. my 2 cents...
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:47:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:


"It's a form of terrorism, if you ask me," said Maria Negron, who walked across the bridge. "I hope they go back to work."







Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:56:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 3:57:51 PM EDT by VTwin60]

Originally Posted By cobra-ak:
Collective bargaining agreements are protected by federal law with the National Labor Relations Board. Union members have Weingarten Rights. They cannot be fired without just cause, you and I may not agree with it but a collective bargaining agreement was an agreement by both sides, managment and rank and file. TWU is part of the Teamsters with a long tradition of work in the transportation industry. Unions have given us the 40 hour week, payment for overtime and night differential, safety violation abatements and dignity. My dad was a union man, he believed in an honest day's work meant an honest day's pay. He made more money therefore he could buy us that bigger house, send me to private school, he had job securtiy meaning that I knew there would always be food on the table and a Christmas tree full of presents. I owe a lot to unions, I remember my Dad cheering when the union leaders were released from jail. Did you know that the MTA carries more than 7 million pax a day, more than the populations of LA and Chicago combined or more than the population of 11 states combined, they work hard everyday with pressures, time constaints and stress. No one wants a strike but 3% of a salary increase is nothing compared to what corporation managers give themselves. my 2 cents...



Your Daddy's union isn't todays Toilet Worker Union that negotiated paycuts for American Airline employees (like myself) without holding a members vote. It was supposed to save our jobs, but we (several thousand) got laid off anyways, and guess what? Because of the pay cut our unemployment was 15% lower too....In the mean time slack ass dipshits got to keep their jobs whereas guys like myself who actually did do honest work for honest pay got thrown to the streets with our families. Woohoo way to go Union!

Are you aware that New York State law forbides its public employees from striking? Much like the Air Traffic controllers, they should get bent over the barrel and rail roaded. BTW what happened to accepting the job and its conditions? What happened to personal accountability as in you get paid for the work you do, not get paid what you think you should. Fuck the Unions.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:21:30 PM EDT
[bus driver]OMG, I'm an idiot with no edjication and I start out makin mo then some college grads. Plus I gets raises, vacation, and some insurance for driving a bus. Poor me.[/bus driver]
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:42:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Greedy, greedy bastards.

Citizens are being denied access to thier jobs becasue
of those coward scumbags.

The Mayor should just fire them. It would probably
increase his popularity.



What? Stupid NYkers should just learn to drive. I doubt wall street will fall in a day or two. Remember, the cabbies are probably happy as hell. There is always a upside to a story.
Access is not being denied unless someone is pinning down motorists in the street.
Mayor is just as much an asshole as any of the union people. And if they are not allowed to strike under law they are wrong, but it shows how dependant people have become on others. Tough shit to them.



Cabbies are probably very happy, they get $10 per person and $5 every time you change "zones" and are allowed to have multiple fares at once. Learning to drive has nothing to do with anything. There isn't enough room on the street or in the parking garages for several million people to come in with their cars, even if everyone carpools.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:58:42 PM EDT

......."It's a form of terrorism, if you ask me," said Maria Negron, who walked across the bridge. "I hope they go back to work."........




C'mon!! I know we are at war with terrorist and I don't personally care for unions but this statement is just ridiculous!!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:00:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
Are you aware that New York State law forbides its public employees from striking?



That sounds alot like slavery!



Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:02:17 PM EDT
$35k -$55k here in NY Metro Area is BallSweat

Last go around they took a hit

Now MTA is Bragging the facy they're running a $1 Billion surplus it's time for their workers to get a raise

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:13:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Turnkey:
$35k -$55k here in NY Metro Area is BallSweat

Last go around they took a hit

Now MTA is Bragging the facy they're running a $1 Billion surplus it's time for their workers to get a raise




Maybe it's time to cut the taxpayer subsidy
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:15:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
Elliot Spitzer likes to stick his nose in things, how about starting a RICO investigation of organized labor?



shitzer needs the union votes when he runs for governor
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:17:25 PM EDT
... The Judge should up it a cool $1,000,000 per day!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:22:52 PM EDT
I'm just happy to be down here where our traffic jams only happen twice a day and they last an hour tops.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:24:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

What? Stupid NYkers should just learn to drive.



Smartest thing Ive heard all day

No way theyll pay this fine. They get out of it as party of the deal to go back to work
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:29:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
By law they cannot strike.

Fine them. Fire them.



By law I can't buy an "assault weapon in Ca. Just because it's a law doesn't mean it's a good law.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:30:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Turnkey:
$35k -$55k here in NY Metro Area is BallSweat

Last go around they took a hit

Now MTA is Bragging the facy they're running a $1 Billion surplus it's time for their workers to get a raise



So what should a high school educated bus driver make? I mean SERIOUSLY?

Maybe they should pull down $100,000 a year plus O/T and benes....

Then they can be like the football players who make $10 Million a year and cry about their mortgage.

Here is a CLUE:

Unhappy, uneducated dimwits will NEVER be happy -- NO MATTER THE PAY SCALE!!!

$35k-$55k + OT + Benes + 401k + Job Security for uneducated labor is more than fair.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:31:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thistle:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
Are you aware that New York State law forbides its public employees from striking?



That sounds alot like slavery!



You can work, or you can quit. You CAN NOT strike under the law.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:35:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Turnkey:
$35k -$55k here in NY Metro Area is BallSweat

Last go around they took a hit

Now MTA is Bragging the facy they're running a $1 Billion surplus it's time for their workers to get a raise



So what should a high school educated bus driver make? I mean SERIOUSLY?

Maybe they should pull down $100,000 a year plus O/T and benes....

Then they can be like the football players who make $10 Million a year and cry about their mortgage.

Here is a CLUE:

Unhappy, uneducated dimwits will NEVER be happy -- NO MATTER THE PAY SCALE!!!

$35k-$55k + OT + Benes + 401k + Job Security for uneducated labor is more than fair.



These people arent exactly high school bush drivers. Not all of them. They run the whole transit system for NYC. I think a big thing was the new workers would not get the same benifits as workers who had been working. an avg of 35-55k isnt much, but these really arent "elite" jobs.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:48:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By thistle:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
Are you aware that New York State law forbides its public employees from striking?



That sounds alot like slavery!



You can work, or you can quit. You CAN NOT strike under the law.




Then it seems to me they all just quit. Rehire on better terms.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:50:27 PM EDT
Glad I went down 3 weeks ago.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:33:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By thistle:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
Are you aware that New York State law forbides its public employees from striking?



That sounds alot like slavery!



You can work, or you can quit. You CAN NOT strike under the law.




It's a flawed law. The worker should be able to tell the employer "I'm not comming back until you improve the work conditions" and the employer in return should be able to fire the employee. the courts should not be involved in the process at all.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:18:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MissouriBob:
Then it seems to me they all just quit. Rehire on better terms.





If I were in charge of hiring for the Metro Transit system I would start offering a $5k/year bump for NEW hires, not old re-hires.

Or I would offer a CDL class, paid for by the transit system, to get qualified NEW drivers, not re-treads. Then I would have a one year contract drawn up that they had to remain employed by the Transit system, as a driver for one year, or they owed the class back to the city.

The thing about driving, or operating a subway car, is that any monkey can be taught to do it. It's not like we are trying to replace 33,000 nuclear physicists.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:20:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
It's a flawed law. The worker should be able to tell the employer "I'm not comming back until you improve the work conditions" and the employer in return should be able to fire the employee. the courts should not be involved in the process at all.



Work conditions? You mean retirement terms? That is what this strike is about at the FUNDAMENTAL level.

They were relatively satisfied with their proposed pay scale, it was the difference between FULL PENSION at 55 vs. full pension at 62.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:22:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
It's a flawed law. The worker should be able to tell the employer "I'm not comming back until you improve the work conditions" and the employer in return should be able to fire the employee. the courts should not be involved in the process at all.



Work conditions? You mean retirement terms? That is what this strike is about at the FUNDAMENTAL level.



Okay. So next time you tell your employer you want changes to your retirement plan or you are not coming to work anymore you should be fined or jailed?
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