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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:48:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 4:49:18 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Border Patrol fears conflict with Mexican military


Agent: 'It's like we're having a battle … that no one speaks of'

Posted: December 19, 2005
12:42 p.m. Eastern


Border Patrol agents stationed along the nation's southwestern frontier increasingly are fearful of encountering armed and potentially hostile military units from Mexico.

Also, agents say, officers are hamstrung in their response, citing concerns the U.S. government is often too deferential to Mexican authorities.

"It's like we're having a battle on the border that no one speaks of," one agent told the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin newspaper in Ontario, Calif.

"The Border Patrol lives in constant fear of pleasing the consulate general of Mexico," the agent continued. "It's one of the things that's most mystifying to line agents" because the U.S. is one of the most powerful countries in the world but appears to be more interested in accommodating Mexico City, the agent said.

Indeed, the confrontations have become so routine the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has issued written orders that agents carry with them regarding "what to do" if confronted by Mexican military units, many of which are in the employ of Mexico's powerful drug cartels.

According to the "Military Incursion" cards, "Mexican military are trained to escape, evade and counter-ambush if it will affect their escape." Therefore, the card says, Border Patrol agents should follow recommended procedures in case they encounter armed Mexican military units.

The paper said the cards also instruct agents to hide from Mexican military operating in their areas. Rather than engage in contact, agents are ordered to "Avoid it."

One Arizona agent described the units to the paper, saying they "are active Mexican military that have sold out to the cartels."

"We talk about cooperation with the Mexican government," the agent continued, "but most of them seem to be on the take. The [Bush] administration, the DHS, they are very hushed about this."

Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., head of the House Immigration Reform Caucus, told WorldNetDaily in a 2002 interview he was concerned about a rising number of incursions occurring along the U.S. southwest border.

Noting that elements of the Mexican military were posing a threat to American agents and civilians along the border, he said, "We're no safer today than we were on Sept. 12," in reference to the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Tancredo said he began making trips to the border because he became alarmed over increasing reports that border personnel were being shot at on a regular basis, as well as chased and targeted by "rogue elements" of the Mexican military. He said such units either were loyal to Mexican-based drug lords or operating outside the scope of their military mandate.

WND has reported that as early as November 2000, Mexican troops had fired on U.S. Border Patrol agents on American soil.

U.S. authorities also have known for some time that elements of Mexican military and law enforcement units have been corrupted by drug cartels.

"In actuality, law enforcement in Mexico is all too often part of the problem rather than part of the solution," Anthony Placido, the Drug Enforcement Administration's acting assistant administrator for intelligence, told a House panel earlier this year. "This is particularly true at the municipal and state levels of government."
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:54:55 AM EDT
There's a term I heard on the news once for a foreign army entering your territory without permission and attacking your troops. If I could only remember it...
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:56:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
There's a term I heard on the news once for a foreign army entering your territory without permission and attacking your troops. If I could only remember it...



"WAR"
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:57:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
There's a term I heard on the news once for a foreign army entering your territory without permission and attacking your troops. If I could only remember it...



Uh, "Mild Transgression"?

No, how about "Unforseeable Accident"?

No, that's not it. I think it starts with a "W".

Damn, nope, can't think of it either.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:58:20 AM EDT
Invasion
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:58:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

There's a term I heard on the news once for a foreign army entering your territory without permission and attacking your troops. If I could only remember it...





INVASION?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:00:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

There's a term I heard on the news once for a foreign army entering your territory without permission and attacking your troops. If I could only remember it...





INVASION?



That's it. Damn, it was right on the tip of my tongue.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:01:00 AM EDT
nothing to see here folks move along, big biz needs that cheap labor so don't expect anything to change.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:01:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

There's a term I heard on the news once for a foreign army entering your territory without permission and attacking your troops. If I could only remember it...





INVASION?



Call Chuck Norris, its INVASION USA!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:04:29 AM EDT

Border Patrol fears conflict with Mexican military


That's because of the mythical concept of "HOMELAND SECURITY".............the political machine in Washington, DC wants an open border to curry the favor of the Hispanic Lobby.

King George II cries about the defeat of the Patriot Act while our borders go unprotected!.......typical politician!

The Governors of the southern states are as guilty as anyone else!
If our own President won't protect the national boundary but cries about wiretapping you and I........I don't respect that at all!

We can spend BILLIONS on all other kinds of useless BULLSHIT but can't guard our own borders?
That's a DAMN LIE!

Hey Georgie Bush.......when the nations borders are reinforced, let me know.........until then I'm not interested in your wiretapping problems!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:04:52 AM EDT
I am constantly amazed how the boarder states are apparently considered "North Mexico"
by our own friggin /gov.....Long as they get thier taxes.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:11:27 AM EDT
Border Patrol agents should start shooting illegal aliens and Mexican military vehicles/personnel on sight. It's time to force the issue of American sovereignty.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:23:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:24:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Those Mexicans are only crossing the border to shoot at the Americans that Americans wouldn't shoot.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:26:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 5:27:31 AM EDT by MTUSA]
USA's biggest foe,

<­BR>





­

itself
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:28:24 AM EDT
I'm pretty sure us alone (ARFCOM members) could defeat the mexican army if they would let us.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:35:49 AM EDT
Old news, the Mexican Army has been shooting and kidnapping people in the U.S. for years
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:37:24 AM EDT
I'll wait to hear from some NAMED sources in something a bit more credible than Wold Net Daily before I hit the panic button.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:38:31 AM EDT
Lets go after IRAN!! It's only on the other side of the planet. While mexico floods our country with drugs and criminals lets just turn our backs.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:41:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
I'll wait to hear from some NAMED sources in something a bit more credible than Wold Net Daily before I hit the panic button.



Are you kidding, this is probably the only story they got right all year.

Probably copied it from some other news source too.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:43:11 AM EDT
I'd buy a ticket to watch the show if those bozos were to run into U.S. Marines backed with air support instead of Border Patrol agents with small arms.

We really need to get hardware of the border.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:46:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tfod:
Old news, the Mexican Army has been shooting and kidnapping people in the U.S. for years



Any links or sources to back that claim up?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:47:03 AM EDT
I wonder how long till Al Qaeda starts dressing up as Mexican Military.........
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:47:52 AM EDT
But, but, but. I DEMAND to know who would print such an obvious and racist attack on our peaceful benefelent hard working family values church oriented traditional honest brave clean and reverent soulfull culturally exciting friends, nay our family from the south!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kidding.

May one of these days our politicians gain the balls to burn 'em with atomic fire.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:50:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By tfod:
Old news, the Mexican Army has been shooting and kidnapping people in the U.S. for years



Any links or sources to back that claim up?



Plenty.

They're just not covered because of the innate peaceful friendly culturally eciting nature of our southern family versus the racists 88 nazi hitler worshipping nature of those who bring up such few isolated rare occurances.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:55:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
I wonder how long till Al Qaeda starts dressing up as Mexican Military.........


Pvt Abdullah Nadir Khan Gonzoles?

Probably in motion already, and with the Mexican government approval.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:56:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By tfod:
Old news, the Mexican Army has been shooting and kidnapping people in the U.S. for years



Any links or sources to back that claim up?


Goto quite a few Arizona newspapers and simply search mexico.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:46:34 AM EDT

"We talk about cooperation with the Mexican government," the agent continued, "but most of them seem to be on the take. The [Bush] administration, the DHS, they are very hushed about this."


Well, goddamn big DUUUUUUUH!

Someone somewhere is just not accepting reality. Why do I say that?

Let's just put together a couple of observations.

First, during alcohol prohibition, Al Capone got to be so rich that he "bought" the town of Cicero, Illinois and had his shipments escorted by cops on motorcycles, in uniform. Hmmmmm, compare that to the Mexican Army being in the employ of the drug cartels.

Years ago, I visited Panama to set up some corporations for a South American firm. We interviewed one of the top Panamanian attorneys and asked him what it took to set up a corporation in Panama.

It is very straightforward, he said, just like the process in the US. In fact, you can take the same papers that you would use to create a corporation in California, change the address and a couple of other details and you would have a corporation in Panama.

But there was one importance difference in the law, he said, that he always had to explain to Americans. The world just doesn't operate the same way down there. To illustrate his point, he told the story of a Panamanian Presidential Cabinet Minister who sued the members of his own staff -- because they had taken a bribe and not given him his fair share. Moreover, he won the case in court. The court ruled that fair is fair and, if his staff was going to take bribes, then they would have to properly share them with the boss.

Bottom line - corruption is an endemic and basic part of Latin American culture.

So you take a drug prohibition that makes some bad guys really, really rich, and you put that together with a culture where corruption is not only common, but even legally approved, and what do you get?

Yeah, we can beat the Mexican Army if we have to. But we will have a hard time occupying all of Latin America.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:56:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:
I'm pretty sure us alone (ARFCOM members) could defeat the mexican army if they would let us.


I'm in, my .50 needs some action.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:14:19 AM EDT
ranchrescue.com/media.htm

easiest link I could name



Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:27:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
Border Patrol agents should start shooting illegal aliens and Mexican military vehicles/personnel on sight. It's time to force the issue of American sovereignty.



I am sure the POTUS will issue the order soon, for it is apparent that the country of Mexico is not with us, they're with the terrorists.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:33:28 AM EDT
Paging General Pershing

Paging General Pershing
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:35:10 AM EDT

Indeed, the confrontations have become so routine the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has issued written orders that agents carry with them regarding "what to do" if confronted by Mexican military units, many of which are in the employ of Mexico's powerful drug cartels.

According to the "Military Incursion" cards, "Mexican military are trained to escape, evade and counter-ambush if it will affect their escape." Therefore, the card says, Border Patrol agents should follow recommended procedures in case they encounter armed Mexican military units.




I want to see one of these "Military Incursion" cards.

Of all the members and resources arf.com has, we should be able to get a scan of one posted.

I call B.S. until I see one.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:35:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
Border Patrol agents should start shooting illegal aliens and Mexican military vehicles/personnel on sight. It's time to force the issue of American sovereignty.



. . . proclaimed King Canute.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:41:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Paging General Pershing

Paging General Pershing



He went to Mexico once. He says it was a waste of time and he doesn't want to go back.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:50:34 AM EDT
Issues like illegal immigration should raise the eyebrows of those that are not completely asleep to the fact that the government (no matter which party) has an agenda, and it is not in the best interests of the people of America.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:50:46 AM EDT
Man reading all the stories from the link above is depressing as hell. It is wide open down on the border and the poliiticans are gutless cowards who refuse to get serious. They could close the border in 24 hrs if they were really serious. Just send their national guard units to their respective borders with orders to fire on all who refuse to surrender. All mexican army units on the U.S side of border are to be engaged immediately with heavy weapons fire. Just see how fast the border is sealed then.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:51:36 AM EDT

Unbelievable. What is this country coming to?

Does this happen all over the border, or only specific parts of some states, or what?

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:53:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MasterSniper:
Man reading all the stories from the link above is depressing as hell. It is wide open down on the border and the poliiticans are gutless cowards who refuse to get serious. They could close the border in 24 hrs if they were really serious. Just send their national guard units to their respective borders with orders to fire on all who refuse to surrender. All mexican army units on the U.S side of border are to be engaged immediately with heavy weapons fire. Just see how fast the border is sealed then.



From the theory that you can kill all the rats by shooting the ones you see, and all the cockroaches by stepping on them when you see them.

I think we had a thread on sealing the border before. Nobody who wanted to do it could explain how it could be effectively done, or figure how much it would cost.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:53:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By tfod:
Old news, the Mexican Army has been shooting and kidnapping people in the U.S. for years



Any links or sources to back that claim up?



Plenty.

They're just not covered because of the innate peaceful friendly culturally eciting nature of our southern family versus the racists 88 nazi hitler worshipping nature of those who bring up such few isolated rare occurances.




Well, the last guy to make a real effort to bring attention to the border issues and actually try to do something about them was run into the ground by the Feds. His name is Jack Foote. You might of heard about his former orginization that was busted up by the Feds. It was called "Ranch Rescue".

Anyone who does not understand there has been a shooting war going on between the US and Mexico for the better part of a century is without question, a sheep. And THAT is a fact.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:58:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Anyone who does not understand there has been a shooting war going on between the US and Mexico for the better part of a century is without question, a sheep. And THAT is a fact. img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/nationwide/animations/sheeple.gif




Yep.


Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Unbelievable. What is this country coming to?

Does this happen all over the border, or only specific parts of some states, or what?




The third world is consuming our country.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:05:43 AM EDT
This is a supply and demand issue. If WE stop demanding cheap labor, then THEY stop crossing the border.

I have the solution, most on this board aren't gonna like it, but here it is.

Hire 5000 government employees to enforce the following for individuals and corporations.


1. Make it illegal for an individual to hire an illegal - If an individual is caught hiring an illegal, you get a mandatory 5yrs in jail plus a 1 million dollar fine per incident and the government can seize personal assets to satisfy the fine(take your house, cars, your kids ipod and your guns). So, If you get caught hiring 5 wets to dig you a ditch, or clean your house, or plant the flower beds, or cut your grass then you go to jail for 25yrs, you owe the government 5 million dollars.

2. Make it illegal for a corporation to hire an illegal - If a corporation is caught employing illegals, the officers(all officers) of the company get 5yrs mandatory in jail, plus the corporation gets a 10 million dollar fine per incident and the government can seize assets to satisfy the fine. So, If you’re the CEO of a company, and a low level manager hires 50 illegals to dig a ditch, or pick some fruit, or frame a house, or cut someone’s grass, then the CIO, CFO, COO and low level manager get to spend 250 yrs in jail, and the government gets to seize 500 million in the assets of your company.



Now I know this seems extreme, but it certainly would take care of the “demand” side of the equation.

We’ll have the 5000 government agents start in DC, looking first at our Senators and Congressmen who are supposed to be addressing this immigration issue.

Note: this will have very little to no effect in securing the thousands of miles of US Boarders but at least we won’t have to keep taking those Spanish lessons.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:36:24 AM EDT
Lots of information about border problems at American Patrol. Click on "Past Features" for many, many links. A number of them are regarding the Mexican military, border agents being shot at, etc. Unless you've traveled down near the border it's hard to fathom what's happening there. The mainstream press sure doesn't want you to know what's really going on.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:43:40 AM EDT
A couple Border Patrol agents should man up and force the issue to the national spotlight.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:44:16 AM EDT
jj01 wins the prize for the actual sane border policy!

Plus tax foreign remittance at 25%. And yes, the American people would be willing to buy $1.97 avacado vice the $0.97 one if told the reason.

America's two great vices are cheap labor and cheap oil. And like most addictions, the real cost is hidden.

Once the illegal migrant issue is settled, we can address other border issues.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:46:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

...............U.S. authorities also have known for some time that elements of Mexican military and law enforcement units have been corrupted by drug cartels.........................




Can this be true? I am shocked, shocked!

Instead of a fence, we need a thousand mile BERM with "Peligroso" signs facing south, and a continuous series of public rifle ranges.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:52:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sovereign:

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
Border Patrol agents should start shooting illegal aliens and Mexican military vehicles/personnel on sight. It's time to force the issue of American sovereignty.



I am sure the POTUS will issue the order soon, for it is apparent that the country of Mexico is not with us, they're with the terrorists.



Hee hee hee...
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:08:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
There's a term I heard on the news once for a foreign army entering your territory without permission and attacking your troops. If I could only remember it...



engagement misadventure?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:15:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

There's a term I heard on the news once for a foreign army entering your territory without permission and attacking your troops. If I could only remember it...





INVASION?



I've seen it on bumper stickers: Invasoria
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:23:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:I think we had a thread on sealing the border before. Nobody who wanted to do it could explain how it could be effectively done, or figure how much it would cost.
Ask the East Germans. They are experts at buidling fences and walls. Ours just has to be longer.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:19:57 PM EDT
First off it's already illegal to hire illegals.

It's not an invasion , it's a raid. Whey the military decides to stay then it's an invasion.

I dunno, if I was a BP and I already knew the .gov was turning a blind eye on certain incursions, I think getting killed by a military unit would be handled like getting killed by criminals (which they are) and no big deal. I probably wouldn't risk it for nothing.

Now if I thought we had a realistic chance of catching something over here the .gov at all levels couldn't ignore. Like a Humvee or big truck, where it can't get towed back before the media gets there.
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