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Posted: 12/19/2005 10:03:34 AM EDT
Wouldn't that be sweet if you ordered...say.....a PS90 semi-auto, and some dumb newbie at FN put a P90 full-auto in the box by accident, and shipped it out as a semi-auto. Tell the truth: Would you call FN and tell them about the error?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:05:55 AM EDT
I doubt they are even kept in the same building.

Most of my LE suppliers don't even have full auto HKs or FN P90s at their facility.

If I do a purchase order for 12 MP5s I send the PO to my supplier with a check and they place the order with HK. HK then drop ships directly to the agency who placed their order with me.

MY LE supplier and I never even see them.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:08:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 10:08:55 AM EDT by operatorerror]
Would I tell them? LOL!

I kinda' figure that the manufacturer probably has a pretty tight control on those things.

ETA but it really would be cool!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:09:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:11:55 AM EDT
Who's asking?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:20:00 AM EDT
Where could you shoot it without being asked for the paperwork? Rule out every commercial range. Even on private land someone might call the po-po to investigate it even in class 3 legal states. Sooner or later the mistake will be caught, forward traced and you're looking at 10 years at Club Fed
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:26:40 AM EDT
Well, this guy at a gun show once told me...........


Well, you know how it goes from there.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:35:05 AM EDT



i doubt it's happened. if it did though, i sure as hell wouldn't tell (either on the receiving OR giving end)!!!


Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:39:35 AM EDT
Not exactly the same thing but . .

The idiots at the sporting goods company I used to work for shipped a whole bunch of replica colt s/a revolvers out in the regular stock. No paperwork, nothing . . .

Nothing like opening up a big box of fishing lures and finding a .45 sitting on top.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:42:57 AM EDT
I bet money it's happened. I've worked in shipping a lot. It's easy to make a mistake.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:44:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
Wouldn't that be sweet if you ordered...say.....a PS90 semi-auto, and some dumb newbie at FN put a P90 full-auto in the box by accident, and shipped it out as a semi-auto. Tell the truth: Would you call FN and tell them about the error?



Well, given that it would be going to an FFL for non-military or non-LEO use, I suppose the FFL would let them know.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:49:38 AM EDT
Question for SteyrAUG:

SteyrAUG, do you have any transferrable class 3 stuff? I'll be in the market real soon (after the 1st of the year) to replace an UZI sub-gun I sold. Do you locate class 3 stuff for us ARF-Commers?

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread... now... back to your regular broadcast...


Lawdog
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:49:55 AM EDT
It's happened before!

87 times IIRC!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:55:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lawdog:
Question for SteyrAUG:

SteyrAUG, do you have any transferrable class 3 stuff? I'll be in the market real soon (after the 1st of the year) to replace an UZI sub-gun I sold. Do you locate class 3 stuff for us ARF-Commers?

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread... now... back to your regular broadcast...


Lawdog



You mean for sale?

No I really don't keep an inventory of transferrables. Too much cash tied up in something with very little profit potential. Bout the only NFA stuff I do regularly are SBRs and suppressors.

I have done searches and located exotics for customers with the cash to pay someone to do their homework for them. But as no such thing as "dealer price" exists on transferrables you'd be better off just hitting subguns and sturmgewehr NFA for sale boards.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:15:22 AM EDT
I recall it happening with some Norinco shipments into the country.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:18:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I recall it happening with some Norinco shipments into the country.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.




Correct - they had an extra hole which was filled with a pop rivet.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:21:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By taptap:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I recall it happening with some Norinco shipments into the country.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.




Correct - they had an extra hole which was filled with a pop rivet.



Sure they didn't just accidentelly file the sear on them?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:25:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By taptap:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I recall it happening with some Norinco shipments into the country.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.




Correct - they had an extra hole which was filled with a pop rivet.



So, obviously, it would have been easy to pop that sucker out, and put the proper parts in?
No wonder most illegal FA AKs are chinese.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:38:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 11:39:27 AM EDT by AssaultRifler]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By taptap:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I recall it happening with some Norinco shipments into the country.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.




Correct - they had an extra hole which was filled with a pop rivet.



So, obviously, it would have been easy to pop that sucker out, and put the proper parts in?
No wonder most illegal FA AKs are chinese.



It's not that hard for a criminal to drill a hole in the first place vs just popping a rivet.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:42:52 AM EDT
I can think of better things to goto jail for, mistake or not its still a felony.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:51:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By taptap:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I recall it happening with some Norinco shipments into the country.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.




Correct - they had an extra hole which was filled with a pop rivet.



So, obviously, it would have been easy to pop that sucker out, and put the proper parts in?
No wonder most illegal FA AKs are chinese.



It's not that hard for a criminal to drill a hole in the first place vs just popping a rivet.



Either way, but I think if that hole was already there, it would set wheels in motion in one's mind that might ordinarily not spin.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:55:50 AM EDT
I also heard of some Chinese SKSs that came into the country that had an extra lever in the trigger guard area that the ATF didnt check into. The lever was a full/semi selector, I forget if they were the kind of SKS that could accept detachable AK-style magazines or if they were stuck with the fixed 10rd mag. Weapons went on to be sold on just 4473s, no Form4s.

Once the function of the extra lever was discovered, the ATF tracked down all the owners by the various FFLs' bound books and gave them three options:
1. Destroy the weapon,
2. Pay the $200 tax or
3. Go to jail.

Kharn
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:58:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:59:58 AM EDT
all I know is if I ever find a full auto thompson in my wall I ain't calling the cops
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 12:09:15 PM EDT
I know it happens bacause I saw the result. I wandered into the office at a local funshop (Been going there for years, know the owners, etc.) to chat and saw a new Colt AR leaning against the wall next to the rifle rack (where they keep guns that have been ordered but not picked up.). I owned Bushmasters so I wanted to check out a Colt and asked the owner if I could take a look-see. I have a very good rep at the shop; half the time they don't clear a gun when they hand it to me knowing I'll check and so on but the owner semi-freaked when I approached the rifle. He said something like, "Don't touch that. The company made a big mistake and we have to send it back right away." Somebody sure made a mistake. When I took a closer look I saw the clearly marked 3 position safety and sear pin. I thought it was pretty cool since I hadn't seem a new M4 close-up but the owners seemed pretty uncomfortable. I think it might have been an LEO order but not a SOT order.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 12:20:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:
I also heard of some Chinese SKSs that came into the country that had an extra lever in the trigger guard area that the ATF didnt check into. The lever was a full/semi selector, I forget if they were the kind of SKS that could accept detachable AK-style magazines or if they were stuck with the fixed 10rd mag. Weapons went on to be sold on just 4473s, no Form4s.

Once the function of the extra lever was discovered, the ATF tracked down all the owners by the various FFLs' bound books and gave them three options:
1. Destroy the weapon,
2. Pay the $200 tax or
3. Go to jail.

Kharn



Must of been pre-May 86 receivers. If I had one and given the choice and the ATF would take my $200 without the normal LEO signoffs and such, I'd pay the $200, get the tax stamp and have a cheap machine gun
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 12:25:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By Kharn:
I also heard of some Chinese SKSs that came into the country that had an extra lever in the trigger guard area that the ATF didnt check into. The lever was a full/semi selector, I forget if they were the kind of SKS that could accept detachable AK-style magazines or if they were stuck with the fixed 10rd mag. Weapons went on to be sold on just 4473s, no Form4s.

Once the function of the extra lever was discovered, the ATF tracked down all the owners by the various FFLs' bound books and gave them three options:
1. Destroy the weapon,
2. Pay the $200 tax or
3. Go to jail.

Kharn




Must of been pre-May 86 receivers. If I had one and given the choice and the ATF would take my $200 without the normal LEO signoffs and such, I'd pay the $200, get the tax stamp and have a cheap machine gun



Durn skippy!

"Here ya go. Is a check ok, or does it have to be cash or money order?"
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:47:49 PM EDT
I'd send it back (cause you'd get caught with it eventually) but not before blowing off a few mags of ammo.
Why the h3ll not?
If anyone asked, you could just play dumb (it is an unfamiliar arm after all ) and say that you knew you ordered a semi, and it looked like a class-3, but you weren't sure without testing it.....

~
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 8:14:57 PM EDT
bump
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:30:10 AM EDT
Not a full auto, but Colt replaced the frame of my Gold Cup 45 one time and the new frame had no serial number. I sent it back.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:44:52 AM EDT
Well, gee, sure, if someone sent me an FA firearm by mistake I would drop it like a hot potato and call the law.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:54:30 AM EDT
The way most manufacturers trace their in house inventory, it would be one hell of a screw up if it did happen.
When I worked at Barrett, the rifles passed through 3 different hands before shipment. Their were select fire 6.8 lowers in the vault that were kept far from the semi lowers.
Where I work now, the rifles pass through 2 peoples hands and are checked before shipping.

Not saying it can't happen. Just highly unlikely. You would hit the lotto before you would get a C3 item by mistake.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:00:27 AM EDT
They were SKS paratroop models.

A local dealer sold 2 of them and the ATF tracked them down and seized them.


Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:00:36 AM EDT
Maadi sent out some AK's with the extra hole too. I got a letter from the BATF shortly after buying one a few years ago, telling me it was consider a machine gun due to the hole in the reciever.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:09:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:
I also heard of some Chinese SKSs that came into the country that had an extra lever in the trigger guard area that the ATF didnt check into. The lever was a full/semi selector, I forget if they were the kind of SKS that could accept detachable AK-style magazines or if they were stuck with the fixed 10rd mag. Weapons went on to be sold on just 4473s, no Form4s.

Once the function of the extra lever was discovered, the ATF tracked down all the owners by the various FFLs' bound books and gave them three options:
1. Destroy the weapon,
2. Pay the $200 tax or
3. Go to jail.

Kharn



They actually gave them an opportunity to pay the tax and legitimize them!? hmmm... sounds mighty white of the ATF's JBT's... Musta been pre-86 weapons though I suppose...
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:14:31 AM EDT
Not quite the same, but I heard of a Wal-Mart one time where they had a newb employee covering on the night shift in sporting goods, and she was selling guns without 4773's! I guess she sold out pretty much the whole store's inventory during her shift. I think the store had some stiff questions put to them by the ATF afterward! I wonder if they managed to keep their FFL???

I also heard of another Wal-mart where a clerk scanned the wrong bar code on a Remington 870 and charged the guy $50 for it. The person who witnessed it immediately bought 3 of them!

I imagine that is why all Wal-Mart gun sales require a managment authorization now. They can't even ring them up without a manager to punch in his code on the cash register! he he he
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:15:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:
Maadi sent out some AK's with the extra hole too. I got a letter from the BATF shortly after buying one a few years ago, telling me it was consider a machine gun due to the hole in the reciever.



What options were you given?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:16:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 7:22:15 AM EDT by luger355]
lets say a person purchased such a firearm unknowingly in 2005 and got a letter/call from the JBT's about it.

what do you think the chances would be that they would allow the option of the weapon to be registered and taxed as an NFA firearm?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:17:08 AM EDT
Colt once got a machine gun slipped into an AR-15 box back in the day, but it was caught before it ever hit the market. Since then, I've heard nothing.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:17:50 AM EDT
Well, there are some examples that are interesting, but not blatant MGs being shipped. There are the MKS M14 fiasco of course, and the Russian "air guns" being shipped on full auto receivers (the damn name escapes me every time...if someone had a link I'd love to have it so I could tattoo it on my forehead lol)...
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:20:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By luger355:
lets say a person purchased such a firearm unknowingly in 2005 and got a letter/call from the JBT's about it.

what do you think the chances would be that they would allow the option of the weapon to be registered and taxed as an NFA?



Probably depends if you are John Kerry or not...
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:35:29 AM EDT
not a naf but i bought a mossburg at walmart that was a LEO shotgun, it has a a parked finish and ghost ring sights. i paid $189 and mossburgs price was supposed to be $450, i called them and they said the accidently shipped 10 of them to walmart.... they offed to replace it with a stock model free of charge. it turns out they make the model only for LEO, but they are civy legal. i still have it if anybody wants pics, just im me with an email addy
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:58:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
Well, there are some examples that are interesting, but not blatant MGs being shipped. There are the MKS M14 fiasco of course, and the Russian "air guns" being shipped on full auto receivers (the damn name escapes me every time...if someone had a link I'd love to have it so I could tattoo it on my forehead lol)...



Your thinking of the Junker series. Particularly the JUNKER 3

Real Izmash AK receivers. Not much to shoot, but perfect replicas.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 7:59:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lawdog:
Question for SteyrAUG:

SteyrAUG, do you have any transferrable class 3 stuff? I'll be in the market real soon (after the 1st of the year) to replace an UZI sub-gun I sold. Do you locate class 3 stuff for us ARF-Commers?

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread... now... back to your regular broadcast...


Lawdog



You can find it yourself... Place a WTB on Sturm, and look at subguns.com... I found my M16 on subguns.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:08:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 8:23:07 AM EDT by squeezecockerp7m8]

Originally Posted By Marco:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
Well, there are some examples that are interesting, but not blatant MGs being shipped. There are the MKS M14 fiasco of course, and the Russian "air guns" being shipped on full auto receivers (the damn name escapes me every time...if someone had a link I'd love to have it so I could tattoo it on my forehead lol)...



Your thinking of the Junker series. Particularly the JUNKER 3

Real Izmash AK receivers. Not much to shoot, but perfect replicas.



Thank you! Kick ass link btw...
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:24:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:

Originally Posted By migradog:
Maadi sent out some AK's with the extra hole too. I got a letter from the BATF shortly after buying one a few years ago, telling me it was consider a machine gun due to the hole in the reciever.



What options were you given?



Only to take it to my dealer and have it replaced.
My dealer said if I didn't do that, the BATF was going to pay me a visit.

What really sucked was I had an RML and it was replaced by an ARM. I later found out when trying to sell it, that it was banned in CA, even though I had bought it there.
The CA DOE told me I had 2 options, Turn it over to the local PD or render it in-operable.
When I asked the agent if is would be legal to sell it in AZ, he told me no and then asked if it would be legal to sell a pound of cocaine in AZ. Basically he was a smug, self-rightious asshole about the whole situation. Since I'm an LEO. I sold it AZ, just so I wouldn't have to worry about having an un-registered assault weapon in CA. (there was no paper on my SP-1 or HK91)
I have since left the state.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:34:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By the_great_snag:

Originally Posted By Kharn:
I also heard of some Chinese SKSs that came into the country that had an extra lever in the trigger guard area that the ATF didnt check into. The lever was a full/semi selector, I forget if they were the kind of SKS that could accept detachable AK-style magazines or if they were stuck with the fixed 10rd mag. Weapons went on to be sold on just 4473s, no Form4s.

Once the function of the extra lever was discovered, the ATF tracked down all the owners by the various FFLs' bound books and gave them three options:
1. Destroy the weapon,
2. Pay the $200 tax or
3. Go to jail.

Kharn



They actually gave them an opportunity to pay the tax and legitimize them!? hmmm... sounds mighty white of the ATF's JBT's... Musta been pre-86 weapons though I suppose...




Imported MG would have had to be in '68. If the ATF did that they were going out of their way to be nice. Adding an imported MG to the NFA registry just because its was shipped in that way... hard to believe it really considering the options they usually offer (most BATFE options I have heard of are like the Maadi story above).
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:59:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By luger355:
lets say a person purchased such a firearm unknowingly in 2005 and got a letter/call from the JBT's about it.

what do you think the chances would be that they would allow the option of the weapon to be registered and taxed as an NFA firearm?




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