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Posted: 12/18/2005 9:06:55 AM EDT



CROOKS OFTEN TOP THE COPS IN FIREPOWER

By PHILIP MESSING and BRAD HAMILTON

December 18, 2005 -- New York cops have known for years that when an officer gets into a shootout with a gunman, it's the bad guy who often has the more powerful weapon.

That maddening disadvantage was again evident in the shootings of nine officers this year.

After the slaying of hero cop Daniel Enchautegui, suspect Steven Armento allegedly bragged that a shot from his father's Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum knocked the cop back 10 feet. "It's too bad [Enchautegui] didn't have bigger bullets," he allegedly said.

Sadly, Armento was right — and he wasn't the only thug to wield firepower superior to the NYPD's standard-issue Glock 9 mm, which cops switched to in the early 1990s to battle increasingly deadly street guns.

* Officer Patrick Caprice, who survived a wild shootout June 1 in Brownsville with a drug suspect firing a Heckler-Koch .45 caliber.

* On July 17, Queens cops Dominick Romano and David Harris were blasted by a shotgun-toting maniac, who armed himself with the dangerous Mossberg No. 88 12 gauge, bought legally at a sporting-goods store in Suffolk County.

* Housing Sgt. Patrick O'Boyle and cop Erik Hansen were both hit June 6 by Tyrell Harris, who had two guns: a Sig Sauer .357 Magnum — considered one of the deadliest handguns on the market — and a Glock 9 mm.

* On Nov. 19, Allan Cameron, who would later allegedly kill Officer Dillon Stewart after a car stop in Flatbush, blasted Officer Wiener Philippe with what cops think is a .40-caliber handgun, police said.

Cameron, cops believe, used a different gun to kill Stewart — a Glock 9 mm that originally came from Scott's Appliance and Furniture in Florida. It made its way to New York via the infamous "iron pipeline" of guns moved from Southern states, where weapons are easily obtained.

philip.messing@nypost.com


HOW YOU 'KIN' GET AROUND STATE LAW

By PHILIP RECCHIA

Email Archives
Print Reprint

December 18, 2005 -- Just how easy is it to buy an illegal handgun?

A Post reporter found out last week when he shopped for a weapon by phone, calling stores in "iron pipeline" states in the South and asking about purchasing a handgun there despite being a New York resident.

Buying one would have been a crime. A purchaser must live in the state where he or she gets the gun.

But that didn't stop two unscrupulous salesmen from shamelessly hinting that there were ways around the law.

A salesman at the Old Dominion Sports Center in Winchester, Va., knowing the prospective buyer was from the Big Apple, said a local relative could buy the gun for him as long as the family member was "seen paying for it."

A similar suggestion was made by a rep at Eagle Pawn and Gun in Waycross, Ga.

In several Southern states, a handgun purchaser needs only to show a valid driver's license or some other form of a photo ID to prove residency and to undergo a cursory background check.

In New York City, a gun buyer must obtain a pistol license through the NYPD before shopping for a handgun.

The process takes six to nine months and involves fingerprinting and an extensive background check.


GUN-SHY JUSTICE

By BRAD HAMILTON, PHILIP RECCHIA and PHILIP MESSING

December 18, 2005 -- A thug who is busted for wielding a loaded handgun in New York City has an astonishing 77 percent chance of ducking jail, a Post analysis of state arrest stats revealed.

And even if the gunslinger does go to the slammer, he's not likely to stay long.

Of those who got jail time last year, more than two-thirds went away for a year or less, despite facing up to 15 years in prison, as state laws allow, the stats show.

"This seems to be a strikingly low percentage of people actually serving time for possession," said Jackie Coles, executive director of New Yorkers Against Gun Violence, an advocacy group.

The Post asked for the stats from the state's Division of Criminal Justice Services as outrage mounts over gunplay in the city. Gov. Pataki has ordered a special session of the state Legislature Wednesday in order to hammer out a tougher weapons law.

The stats look at convictions and incarcerations in the five boroughs between 2000 and 2004 for second- and third-degree criminal possession of a weapon — the two charges that gun offenders face when caught with a loaded firearm.

They examine only those cases in which the weapons allegation is the top charge.

The stats show that of the 1,513 thugs busted in 2004 on second-degree weapon-possession charges — a crime in which the gunman intends to use his weapon to commit an additional offense — just 46 percent were convicted and a mere 25 percent went to jail.

Of the 3,348 suspects nailed for third-degree charges, where mere possession of a loaded weapon was alleged, 54 percent were convicted and 22 percent did time.

The result?

Only 1,128 of the 4,861 people busted on the two gun charges actually saw the inside of a cell — a paltry 23 percent.

A single count of second-degree weapon possession carries a maximum of 15 years in jail.

Third-degree possession maxes out at seven years in the slammer.

Those arrested in Brooklyn and The Bronx stand the best chance of getting off — as a mere one in five in those boroughs did time for a felony gun charge in 2004.

Offenders in Manhattan were the most likely to land in the big house: One in three went away, the stats show.

But more often than not, the time they served amounted to 12 months or less.

The stats show that 143 of the 1,128 who were convicted on either of the two charges in 2004 did state prison time — which means more than a year in the pokey.

But 834 — or 73 percent of the total — spent their time in a city jail, meaning they served one year or less.

As anger grows over the spread of guns into the city, critics claim the stats are an embarrassment to prosecutors, who often accept plea deals on weapons charges and let suspects go with probation, a fine or conditional discharge.

Some say more should be done to stop the flow of illegal weapons in the first place.

"The focus needs to be upstream on gun traffickers, which would prevent thousands of these possession cases," said Coles.

Not all the district attorneys have the same record of shame.

In each of the last four years, Manhattan has had the highest percentage of felony convictions for those sent to jail for firearms offenses, according to DCJS stats.

brad.hamilton@nypost.com

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:12:34 AM EDT
Those repoeters would shit themselves if they come to Texas...lol
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:12:53 AM EDT
Of those the third one is the most disturbing.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:16:16 AM EDT
I didn't read all of this but it appears most were shot with pistols. So much for the AW ban.


I love the statement about guns being easier to get in the south. I guess Federal law doesn't apply here.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:19:27 AM EDT
More political propaganda disquised as news. NYC already is the one of the USA's stiffest laws regarding weapons, and now they want to export their BS laws to the rest of the USA. With recent memories of the hurricanes Katrina/Rita/NOLA, DC Sniper, and 9-11 WTC/Pentagon Attack the probably is pretty low that any USA wide anti-gun law will pass Congress, not while GWB Jr is PotUS.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:23:30 AM EDT
Implying the south has virtually no law regarding firearms purchase for the NYC sheeple.
Amazes me how many New Yorkers are invading (and ruining) GA, SC, FL, and TN when they have so much hatred/contempt for the south still!
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:29:19 AM EDT
There's been a spate of them after the recent cop shootings.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:30:37 AM EDT
Nefarius: The reaon is that many of the people who screwed up NJ & NY etc so badly that can't wait to leave, and are advocating that in the states that they have resettled in the South.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:32:03 AM EDT
Good God. I'd rather live in China than New York.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:32:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 9:33:13 AM EDT by NoVaGator]
The proprietors in the second article ("HOW YOU 'KIN' GET AROUND STATE LAW") are our enemies.

Hinting towards straw purchases is bad juju
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:36:29 AM EDT
Sheeple indoctrination day is everyday.

_________________________________________________

They won't stop, ever, until they get their ass kicked.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:38:59 AM EDT
So I guess in NY us peons shouldnt be able to have bigger caliber guns than the fuzz

And watch out for those DEADLY and POWERFUL mossbergs

I want a Sig 357 MAGNUM


-idiots
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:50:14 AM EDT
I thought most guns were illegal in NYC? How can there be any problems when everything is outlawed.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:51:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:

I want a Sig 357 MAGNUM


-idiots



My Sig 357 magnum fires dum dum bullets from a banana clip.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:12:47 AM EDT
I don't see anything anti-gun per se in the first article. Of course it is nonsense that the .357sig is considered the 'deadliest' handgun on the market. That is merely a matter of opinion and a poorly formed opinion at that. And you can bet a paycheck that the people who claim to be concerned by this situation would rather rectify it by disarming us than giving the police better firearms. These are the same people who think .38 Special hollow points are the ultimate cop-killing death machine and deer rifles are harmless farmer tools.

Galland

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:17:10 AM EDT
"The focus needs to be upstream on gun traffickers, which would prevent thousands of these possession cases," said Coles."

No you stooopid cunt, the focus needs to be on longer prison sentences, eliminating plea bargains, eliminating the parole system, incarcerating the dirt bags for the full term of their sentence and sending the murderers to hell in the electric chair.

Criminals will always have access to firearms by stealing them, jumping a cop and taking his service weapon or numerous other ways of illegally obtaining firearms. Ms. Coles the only thing you and your anti-gun douche bag friends in NY have done is disarm law abiding citizens and make them easy targets for the low life thugs that want your stuff and will kill you to get it.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:24:28 AM EDT
The NY Post has never had any credibility in IMHO. Unfortunately there are idiots that will believe that rag.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:06:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:
I didn't read all of this but it appears most were shot with pistols. So much for the AW ban.


I love the statement about guns being easier to get in the south. I guess Federal law doesn't apply here.



Yes, but they'd argue that without the AWB, the cops would have been shot by "Mexican Uzis" or somesuch nonsense.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:18:25 AM EDT
Anyone else notice that the same guy is an author in each article. His email is listed after the first one....I suggest a fire mission!!

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:31:20 AM EDT
new york city: most are effectively retarded.

That is they have such limited knowledge of reality that their decisions, opinions, and choices are similar to those who are mentally retarded.

Therefore, they are anti-gun and vote for subhuman socialist scum like hillary and eichmann-schumer.

Dumb as a box of rocks, in other words. But view themselves as a sort of intellectual elite.


Dumb people, I see them all around,

they don't even know they are dumb.


PS, exterminate activists.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:33:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcantu:
Anyone else notice that the same guy is an author in each article. His email is listed after the first one....I suggest a fire mission!!




Most of the emails probably wouldn't even make it to him, he'd have some secratary or something answer for him. And there's actually two Philips, Messing and Recchia, they're not all by the same guy.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:37:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Galland:
I don't see anything anti-gun per se in the first article. Of course it is nonsense that the .357sig is considered the 'deadliest' handgun on the market. ......


I think the author is trying to build a case where there is "too many guns on the street" scenario, as advocated by the anti-gun crowd, and therefore something must be done about private possession of guns.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:41:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nefarius:
Implying the south has virtually no law regarding firearms purchase for the NYC sheeple.
Amazes me how many New Yorkers are invading (and ruining) GA, SC, FL, and TN when they have so much hatred/contempt for the south still!



+1 I moved from MD because of my family down here, MD's high taxes, and stupid gun laws. I moved here because I like the south not because I want to change it.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:49:21 AM EDT
Best thing is to work at the state level to abolish the gun laws in NYC.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:50:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zatu:

Originally Posted By mcantu:
Anyone else notice that the same guy is an author in each article. His email is listed after the first one....I suggest a fire mission!!




Most of the emails probably wouldn't even make it to him, he'd have some secratary or something answer for him. And there's actually two Philips, Messing and Recchia, they're not all by the same guy.



Whoops. Only the first and second are by the same guy. These kind of articles are usually written by low level writers who I doubt have a secretary or assistant...probably lucky to have his own cubicle
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:51:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:
Best thing is to work at the state level to abolish the gun laws in NYC.



That'll never happen. Not when the politicians down there are asking for new ones all the time.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:59:23 AM EDT
better get the hip waders on boys, the bull shit from those articles is pretty deep
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 2:19:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
The proprietors in the second article ("HOW YOU 'KIN' GET AROUND STATE LAW") are our enemies.

Hinting towards straw purchases is bad juju



If in fact it really happened. All libs lie like dogs & Ministry Of Truth media types are the worst about it.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:39:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
Nefarius: The reaon is that many of the people who screwed up NJ & NY etc so badly that can't wait to leave, and are advocating that in the states that they have resettled in the South.



Yup, I saw this in action while living in TN. People move down from the liberal states, and bring their voting habits with them.

It's basic human behavior, not a North/South thing. The folks in strongly Libertarian New Hampshire scream about the Massholes moving in and trying to turn it into exactly what they left behind.

Humans just can't bear the thought that they might have played a hand in making their previous home the craphole that it was.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:24:09 PM EDT
i dont know what to say,
you all said it for me !!!!! plus some.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:07:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 7:11:42 PM EDT by Andreuha]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:
Best thing is to work at the state level to abolish the gun laws in NYC.



That'll never happen. Not when the politicians down there are asking for new ones all the time.



SO WHY NOT PUSH FOR PRO-GUN LAWS?
Like, starting with a law which disallows individual counties from issuing gun laws beyond those of the state government? (which would obviously include a state consolidated pistol permit)


Good lord how badly I would like to keep a normal rifle in this city, much less own and carry a pistol...
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:40:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:
Best thing is to work at the state level to abolish the gun laws in NYC.



That'll never happen. Not when the politicians down there are asking for new ones all the time.



SO WHY NOT PUSH FOR PRO-GUN LAWS?
Like, starting with a law which disallows individual counties from issuing gun laws beyond those of the state government? (which would obviously include a state consolidated pistol permit)


Good lord how badly I would like to keep a normal rifle in this city, much less own and carry a pistol...



same here man.... same here
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:46:26 PM EDT

suspect Steven Armento allegedly bragged that a shot from his father's Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum knocked the cop back 10 feet.



Somebody watched too many movies. Ban those damn Assault Cop Killer Revolvers, They can defy phisics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:40:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:
Best thing is to work at the state level to abolish the gun laws in NYC.



That'll never happen. Not when the politicians down there are asking for new ones all the time.



Politicians everywhere ask for all kinds of crazy laws all the time. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll get anywhere. Back in Florida, a few South Florida dumbass congresscritters propose wacky anti-gun laws all the time, but they never get anywhere, and Florida still has some of the best gun laws in the nation. The only way to make sure that restoring our gun rights never happens is for the people who should be the strongest advocates to believe that it will never happen.

I bet 200 years ago, you'd be laughed out of Congress for proposing any of the gun laws we have on the books today. Some very determined people fought for a long time to make those laws, and many others, a reality. We'll have to fight just as hard and just as long to get all of our rights back.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 4:47:35 AM EDT
John Lott editorial in today's NY Post:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=419576
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:14:16 AM EDT
news.yahoo.com/s/nypost/20051219/cm_nypost/wonderingaboutshelly

Mon Dec 19, 6:00 AM ET

What is it going to take to convince Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver of the need to crack down on illegal gun traffickers?

Another dead cop, in addition to the two murdered in New York City in just the past three weeks?

Something more?

On Friday, it seemed that Silver was close to signing on to Gov. Pataki's proposed package of anti-trafficking bills — so much so, in fact, that the governor called a special session of the Legislature for Wednesday to take up the measures.

Alas, Shelly is being Shelly.

A past master of political log-rolling, the speaker yesterday cancelled a planned Sunday meeting to discuss details, and his aides last night were plotting means to avoid doing anything meaningful on gun-trafficking while seeming to do just the opposite.

So why is Silver afraid to pass bills meant to dramatically increase jail time for criminals who deal in illegal guns?

Think political expediency.

Silver is in thrall to the Assembly's black and Hispanic caucus, which reflexively opposes all tough-on-crime measures as having a "disproportionate" impact on New York's minority groups.

No matter that the lives lost to illegal guns are predominately those of black and Hispanic New Yorkers.

When Silver became speaker in 1994, the caucus — most of its members hail from New York City — was crucial in securing him the top spot.

The caucus came through again in 2000, helping him fend off a coup attempt by an upstate Democrat.

And so now, when the caucus says dance . . . Shelly dances.

Before he was elected speaker, Shelly liked to bill himself as tough on crime. That might even have been true.

But now, not to put too fine a point on it, he won't lift a finger to go after the illegal guns that are taking the lives of New York's Finest.

But, of course, it's not just cops dying.

It's minorities who suffer most.

According to the NYPD, there have 509 homicides in 2005 (as of Dec. 11.) Of those, 62 percent were committed with guns — and 59 percent of victims were black; 27 percent were Hispanic.

Only 8 percent were white; 5 percent, Asian.

Numbers like these mean little to the caucus (and, thus, to Silver); its members are mired in '60s sensibilities regarding the police. But that doesn't mean that the blood of innocent black and Hispanic New Yorkers isn't on their hands (and, thus, Silver's.)

How many killings might have been avoided had Silver allowed meaningful gun-trafficking reform in the past?

How many won't be avoided if the speaker thwarts it again on Wednesday — as he seem intent on doing?

That's unknowable, of course.

So maybe it's time to stop asking why Silver won't attend the funerals of cops killed in the line of duty — and to begin wondering whether he'll show up at services for the next black or Hispanic child murdered with an illegal gun in New York City.

We'll be there; he can count on it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:14:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
news.yahoo.com/s/nypost/20051219/cm_nypost/wonderingaboutshelly

Mon Dec 19, 6:00 AM ET

What is it going to take to convince Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver of the need to crack down on illegal gun traffickers?

Another dead cop, in addition to the two murdered in New York City in just the past three weeks?

Something more?

On Friday, it seemed that Silver was close to signing on to Gov. Pataki's proposed package of anti-trafficking bills — so much so, in fact, that the governor called a special session of the Legislature for Wednesday to take up the measures.

Alas, Shelly is being Shelly.

A past master of political log-rolling, the speaker yesterday cancelled a planned Sunday meeting to discuss details, and his aides last night were plotting means to avoid doing anything meaningful on gun-trafficking while seeming to do just the opposite.

So why is Silver afraid to pass bills meant to dramatically increase jail time for criminals who deal in illegal guns?

Think political expediency.

Silver is in thrall to the Assembly's black and Hispanic caucus, which reflexively opposes all tough-on-crime measures as having a "disproportionate" impact on New York's minority groups.

No matter that the lives lost to illegal guns are predominately those of black and Hispanic New Yorkers.

When Silver became speaker in 1994, the caucus — most of its members hail from New York City — was crucial in securing him the top spot.

The caucus came through again in 2000, helping him fend off a coup attempt by an upstate Democrat.

And so now, when the caucus says dance . . . Shelly dances.

Before he was elected speaker, Shelly liked to bill himself as tough on crime. That might even have been true.

But now, not to put too fine a point on it, he won't lift a finger to go after the illegal guns that are taking the lives of New York's Finest.

But, of course, it's not just cops dying.

It's minorities who suffer most.

According to the NYPD, there have 509 homicides in 2005 (as of Dec. 11.) Of those, 62 percent were committed with guns — and 59 percent of victims were black; 27 percent were Hispanic.

Only 8 percent were white; 5 percent, Asian.

Numbers like these mean little to the caucus (and, thus, to Silver); its members are mired in '60s sensibilities regarding the police. But that doesn't mean that the blood of innocent black and Hispanic New Yorkers isn't on their hands (and, thus, Silver's.)

How many killings might have been avoided had Silver allowed meaningful gun-trafficking reform in the past?

How many won't be avoided if the speaker thwarts it again on Wednesday — as he seem intent on doing?

That's unknowable, of course.

So maybe it's time to stop asking why Silver won't attend the funerals of cops killed in the line of duty — and to begin wondering whether he'll show up at services for the next black or Hispanic child murdered with an illegal gun in New York City.



We'll be there; he can count on it.



the blacks and hispanics are the victoms? well they are also the criminals....aHHH dont they see!?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:53:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 9:54:36 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By Dieter122:
the blacks and hispanics are the victoms? well they are also the criminals....aHHH dont they see!?



Most of the violent crime in NYC is committed by blacks and hispanics against other blacks and hispanics. Politicians don't care about what the facts are. They only care about where their power base is and working it for all its worth.
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