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Posted: 12/17/2005 5:51:53 AM EDT
If your payment method fails or your account is past due, we may collect fees owed using other collection mechanisms. (This includes charging other payment methods on file with us, retaining collection agencies and legal counsel, and for accounts over 180 days past due, deducting the amount owed from your PayPal account balance.)


This is the newest addition to their user agreement. What it means: if you ever used a credit card, or paid by personal check, they can take what they think is owed them from your account, even easier if you use paypal. This new user agreement is your blank check to these folks.

Yet, if you have a problem or dispute, it is near impossible to talk to a real person on the phone. Good luck, and use alternate auction sites.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:05:50 AM EDT
ebay has taken a turn for the worse lately.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:24:35 AM EDT
There's a real simple way around this....if you don't like the rules then don't use ebay.

Personally i can't stand them so I avoid ebay at all opportunities.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:24:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sven:
ebay has taken a turn for the worse lately a long time ago.

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:29:05 AM EDT
Unless you are buying an F-18 I say fuck Ebay.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:48:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:


Yet, if you have a problem or dispute, it is near impossible to talk to a real person on the phone. Good luck, and use alternate auction sites.



+1...I actually did one time. It took almost an hour, but I was doing other stuff anyways so leaving the phone on was no big deal. I was just curious how long it would take...
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:50:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sven:
ebay has taken a turn for the worse lately.



Ebay has been sliding down hill for the last several years. In some ways, you can't blame them. I'm sure there are millions and millions of dollars of potentail fraudulent auctions on there at anyone time.

On the other hand, they treat everyone the same and assume you are guilty first. I've had my account for over 7 years with 100% feedback, and I recently had an auction cancelled for a laptop because I didn't state that I included all original media with the included software. When I tried to explain to them that free software downloaded from the net doesn't have original media, they advised me that free software is always changing status and that I should remove it before re-listing. Assholes.

Their feedback system has become completely useless. Sellers used to send feedback as soon as they received the funds. Now they all wait until the buyer sends them feedback first, so if a buyer is unhappy with a seller and leaves neg feedback, the seller will give the buyer neg feedback in retaliation, even though the buyer was honest and completed their portion of the transaction honorably.



Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:52:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:

This is the newest addition to their user agreement. What it means: if you ever used a credit card, or paid by personal check, they can take what they think is owed them from your account, even easier if you use paypal. This new user agreement is your blank check to these folks.




Not really. PP CANNOT dip into your linked credit/savings account without your authorization. They can only "seize" funds in your PP account. Smart people sweep their PP accounts clean everyday.

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:41:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By back40:
Their feedback system has become completely useless. Sellers used to send feedback as soon as they received the funds. Now they all wait until the buyer sends them feedback first, so if a buyer is unhappy with a seller and leaves neg feedback, the seller will give the buyer neg feedback in retaliation, even though the buyer was honest and completed their portion of the transaction honorably.

That's my biggest gripe too. If I send $$$ to a compete stranger, then I'm the one taking all the risk. If the sellers don't leave it for me, I don't leave it for them. I had one seller leave me neutral FB after I refused to leave it for him first. Well he got -FB in return. He later got a troll ebay account and bid on one of my auctions and left -FB for me 3 days after the auction ended. Turns out the phantom account was generic_tp_is_rough, and the two people he left -FB for had one thing in common; we had left -FB for sports_monkey in the past.

I'll still get him back.... one day.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:48:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17:

Originally Posted By back40:
Their feedback system has become completely useless. Sellers used to send feedback as soon as they received the funds. Now they all wait until the buyer sends them feedback first, so if a buyer is unhappy with a seller and leaves neg feedback, the seller will give the buyer neg feedback in retaliation, even though the buyer was honest and completed their portion of the transaction honorably.

That's my biggest gripe too. If I send $$$ to a compete stranger, then I'm the one taking all the risk. If the sellers don't leave it for me, I don't leave it for them. I had one seller leave me neutral FB after I refused to leave it for him first. Well he got -FB in return. He later got a troll ebay account and bid on one of my auctions and left -FB for me 3 days after the auction ended. Turns out the phantom account was generic_tp_is_rough, and the two people he left -FB for had one thing in common; we had left -FB for sports_monkey in the past.

I'll still get him back.... one day
.



Contact Ebay w/ this info and the -FB should be removed. Obviously he ended the auction w/ the sole intent to leave -FB ( had it done to me and my FB was fixed immediately ..... I have 1000+ Ebay feedback )
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:03:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By back40:


Not really. PP CANNOT dip into your linked credit/savings account without your authorization. They can only "seize" funds in your PP account. Smart people sweep their PP accounts clean everyday.




Read the new agreement. It IS autorization to your linked account as per their new rules.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:07:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 8:08:43 AM EDT by Melvinator2k0]
this is disgusting. they know they can take advantage of its users because there is no competetion.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:15:19 AM EDT
This is exactly why, when I used PayPal, I set up a new account at a different bank, and a new credit card at a different bank, with a very LOW limit... then I ensured the account could not be overdrafted by an outside source, and once money was transferred in, I moved it out quickly via CASH. It would also be wise to cancel or freeze the credit card (keep the letter stating its officially closed so it doesn't reopen) so no charges can be made to it, after its used to authenticate to PayPal. However, charges can be disputed on the credit card and checking account, but its much more difficult when they have your own money from the checking account...

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:37:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:

Originally Posted By back40:


Not really. PP CANNOT dip into your linked credit/savings account without your authorization. They can only "seize" funds in your PP account. Smart people sweep their PP accounts clean everyday.




Read the new agreement. It IS autorization to your linked account as per their new rules.



If they dip into your bank account without authorization, I'm pretty sure you can bang them for fraud. You don't get to take from someone's account without their authorization. As for the CC, you can always dispute the charge. The CC company will side with you pretty much by default.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:41:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 8:41:56 AM EDT by _DR]

I got my ebay account way before they started requiring credit cards. NO WAY would those asshats ever get any of my credit card numbers. Never.

And I ditched paypay a loong time ago.

I still buy the ocasional gun part or item on ebay, or list the occasional item, but it is definitely turning ugly in many ways.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:44:34 AM EDT
when you sign up for the paypal account, you give them authorization to dip into your bank account. i once had a buyer dispute his paypal payment to me on his credit card, and paypal ripped the money out of my bank account because there weren't sufficient funds in my paypal account to cover the charge.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:46:06 AM EDT
The reason I brought this up is the way I read it (not a laywer, but much experience in contract wording) your use of ebay once this change is fully implemented is defacto authorization from the user for them to charge any account they can link to for charges they feel are owed to them.

They will say you agreed in advance to the charges, and will make it difficult for you to dispute.

BTW, the agreement change was authored and signed by ebay's contract law firm. If you are a member of ebay, you will get a similar notification, if not, just go read their current user agreement.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:48:52 AM EDT
the words "legally binding" come to mind.....
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:56:33 AM EDT
That's why a class action lawsuit against paypal was recently settled. Yep they had to pay the people they screwed. I had to call 4 times to get the bastards to delete/cancel/end/obliterate my PayPal account. zero balnce but they kept sending me crap related to my "Closed" account.

I told them I was going to send it to my attorney if they didn't close it for real. I got an official "account closed" noticed after that.

I would liken "PAY PAL" to herpes, Genital warts, or some other nasty thing it is really hard to get rid of.

I can't believe AR15.COM still uses PAY PAL. Damn shame.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 8:57:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
when you sign up for the paypal account, you give them authorization to dip into your bank account. i once had a buyer dispute his paypal payment to me on his credit card, and paypal ripped the money out of my bank account because there weren't sufficient funds in my paypal account to cover the charge.



No way in the world I'd give Pay Pal access to my bank account. They have 1 credit card on file. I can dispute the charge with the credit card company.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 11:25:41 AM EDT
I suspect this new agreement will allow them to do a EFT withdrawl from your checking account.

If you have ever sent them a personal check, or given your account number as part of a credit application (paypal), they heve everything they need to do a withdrawl.

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:15:05 PM EDT
I used to use pay pal to pay (via credit card). If they charged my credit card, I think I'd get the state AG involved AND sue. (After I stop paymented their unauthorized charge).

2 words for you:

WESTERN UNION

You get CASH at any REAL location.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:17:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:
The reason I brought this up is the way I read it (not a laywer, but much experience in contract wording) your use of ebay once this change is fully implemented is defacto authorization from the user for them to charge any account they can link to for charges they feel are owed to them.

They will say you agreed in advance to the charges, and will make it difficult for you to dispute.

BTW, the agreement change was authored and signed by ebay's contract law firm. If you are a member of ebay, you will get a similar notification, if not, just go read their current user agreement.



That crap won't hold up with YOUR credit card company. They know where their money comes from. They will accept the dispute.

And online EULAs are worth the paper they are printed on. There's still a HUGE question of authentacation and acceptance.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:01:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StrkAliteN:
Contact Ebay w/ this info and the -FB should be removed. Obviously he ended the auction w/ the sole intent to leave -FB ( had it done to me and my FB was fixed immediately ..... I have 1000+ Ebay feedback )

I did that and the actual comment was removed from my feedback history, but it still shows that I've received ONE negative feedback.

Member Profile: txgp17 (213)
Feedback Score: 213
Positive Feedback: 99.5%
Members who left a positive: 214
Members who left a negative: 1
All positive feedback received: 244

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:19:26 PM EDT
Ironically, I went to Ebay, and tried to close my account. I was unable to do so. I'd keep getting an page saying "Page not responding. try again later". Either everyone and their mother is closing accounts, or they don't want us to be able to.

Strange.
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