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Posted: 12/16/2005 2:54:20 PM EDT
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.

That's .gov looking at everything you said on the web. IMs, discussion boards, e-mails, chat rooms, all of it.

It's OK though, we're all law abiding citizens with nothing to hide.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:55:09 PM EDT
but, but, rush limbaugh said its for my own good!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:56:23 PM EDT
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:59:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.





Pooby's saying that because of his presence here, any of YOU could be placed under investigation.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:59:26 PM EDT
I posted in several threads he was in. When he got busted I checked back and yep, a lot us of did. I dont think I ever IM'd him or e-mailed him though.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:59:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.





You weren't here for it, judging by your join date...

Then again, the join date has been known to lie... (I know I signed up here prior to 2001, don't remember if I had a paying account though until after 2001...)

Yah, he converted to islam, and then took it upon himself to troll every thread about islam, defending those who've done horrible shit in the name of Allah. I think he was already in the Guard when he converted...anyway.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Not like he could have told them anything more useful than what grade of lubricating oil they use...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:00:03 PM EDT
Let's just be glad we don't have the level of Rico they have in Canada...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:01:53 PM EDT
Um, if any of you were in cahoots with Ryan Anderson's attempts to kill his comrades, guess what? I hope the government nails your ass to the wall.

Pooby, yours isn't exactly a good argument against the Patriot Act, it's a case for it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:02:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.





Pooby's saying that because of his presence here, any of YOU could be placed under investigation.



No, that's not what I said. The roving wiretap provision of the PA lets LE place wiretaps on all places they think he may be talking from or to.
That means anyone on this board if you look at it very broadly, take a narrower view and only the people who conversed in threads with him, narrower still and only those who IMed him or e-mailed him.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:02:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:03:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.

That's .gov looking at everything you said on the web. IMs, discussion boards, e-mails, chat rooms, all of it.

It's OK though, we're all law abiding citizens with nothing to hide.


I was never impressd in criminal procedure class when all the examples 4th and 5 th violations by the po po, and I mean every single reported case I have ever read, involved a guilty guy.

From my understanding, Rebel grey was a fucking traitor.

While I am not happy about the legislation following the 9-11 attacks, he's no poster boy.

Anyone who associated with him should take care to keep better company.

Before you retort that I was a member here when he was a member, so what. Any contact was incidental. Feds are overworked and don't have time to hassle anyone for nonspecific chat on the internet.

Now, anyone iming him about how to defeat Abrahms, they reap what they sowed.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:09:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:11:25 PM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:09:35 PM EDT
Rebel shitstain was busted by a woman judge in Montana.

Posted 5/13/2004 3:43 AM Updated 5/13/2004 8:01 AM

'Net sleuth' tells court of hunt that snared Guardsman
By Melanthia Mitchell, Associated Press

FORT LEWIS, Wash. — A Montana city judge who doubles as an Internet sleuth helped catch a National Guard member accused of trying to help al-Qaeda, according to testimony given Wednesday at a military hearing for the guardsman.

Judge Shannen Rossmiller of Conrad, Mont., testified she was monitoring the Web for signs of extremist or terrorist activity last October when she came across a posting on a Muslim-oriented site by an "Amir Abdul Rashid."

Through a string of Internet searches, she said, she linked the name and e-mail address to Spc. Ryan G. Anderson, a Muslim convert and Fort Lewis-based National Guardsman now charged with five counts of trying to provide the terrorist network with information about U.S. troop strength and tactics as well as methods for killing American soldiers.

Rossmiller was the first witness called when Anderson's military hearing began Wednesday. She identified herself as a member of 7-Seas.net, a global organization that tracks terrorist activity and provides the information to government and military officials.

After she saw the posting from "Rashid," she posted a phony call to jihad against the United States. Rashid wrote back.

"He was curious if a brother fighting on the wrong side could join or defect," she said.

After a series of e-mails, Rossmiller contacted the Homeland Security Department, which put her in touch with the FBI.

Anderson, 26, was arrested in February after he allegedly tried to pass information to undercover Army investigators. Under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, those convicted of trying to aid the enemy can face the death penalty.

The prosecutors, Maj. Chris Jenks and Maj. Timothy MacDonnell, showed a nearly hour-long video tape of a meeting between Anderson and two investigators posing as al-Qaeda members. On the tape, Anderson told the two about weaknesses in the M1A1 Abrams, the Army's main battle tank, and presented sketches of it.

"While I love my country, I think the leaders have taken this horrible road," Anderson said on the video. "I have no belief in what the American Army has asked me to do. They have sent me to die."

The meeting took place in a vehicle near the Space Needle in Seattle on Feb. 9; Anderson was to be deployed to Iraq within days.

During the second half of Wednesday's proceeding at this Army base south of Tacoma, the government called two civilian witnesses who work for the military and two FBI agents.

The two military witnesses testified that Anderson's statements about the vulnerability of the Abrams tank were accurate.

One of the FBI witnesses was involved in a search of Anderson's apartment that yielded a computer on which the FBI found e-mail exchanges with Rossmiller.

The proceeding was an Article 32 hearing, similar to a preliminary hearing in civilian court. After hearing the Army's evidence against Anderson, the investigating officer, Col. Patrick J. Reinert, will recommend whether he should face a court martial. Reinert's recommendation will go to the base commander at Fort Lewis, Lt. Gen. Edward Soriano, who will decide whether Anderson will be tried and whether he could face the death penalty.

Initially, Anderson was charged with four counts of trying to communicate with terrorists. The Army added a fifth charge last month, which was not disclosed publicly until Wednesday. It alleges that at one point, Anderson told undercover military personnel: "I wish to desert from the U.S. Army. I wish to defect from the United States. I wish to join al-Qaeda, train its members and conduct terrorist attacks."

Anderson has spent the last three months jailed at the Regional Corrections Facility at Fort Lewis, where his brigade was based.

Among those at Anderson's hearing was Capt. James Yee, a Muslim chaplain at Fort Lewis who until recently was embroiled in an investigation of suspected espionage at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp in Cuba. In March, the Army dismissed all criminal charges against Yee, including a charge of mishandling classified material.

Yee refused to say, and Army officials refused to disclose, why he attended the hearing.

Like Yee, Anderson was raised a Lutheran and later converted to Islam. Anderson grew up in Everett, where classmates at Cascade High School described him as a paramilitary enthusiast who was passionate about guns. Anderson began studying Islam while attending Washington State University.

He graduated from WSU with a history degree in 2002 and joined the National Guard. He is a tank crew member with the 81st Brigade, which is deployed in Iraq.

The hearing was scheduled to continue Thursday morning in a closed session because of what the Army described as security concerns.


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:10:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Um, if any of you were in cahoots with Ryan Anderson's attempts to kill his comrades, guess what? I hope the government nails your ass to the wall.

Pooby, yours isn't exactly a good argument against the Patriot Act, it's a case for it.



I agree with your above statement but I dont think anyone here even liked him. Of course who would have even thought for a minute that one of members would be a traitor (not counting the Duh trols lol).

Your last statement makes no sense to me though.
Just because I talked to some guy on the interweb doesnt give .gov the right to listen in on my computer but that's exactly what could and may have happened.


Al-Qaeda-link soldier gets life
From correspondents in Seattle, Washington

A US National Guard soldier was sentenced to life in prison after being convicted of trying to aid the al-Qaeda network, authorities said today.

Specialist Ryan Anderson, who converted to Islam, was sentenced by a nine-officer jury in a court martial at the Fort Lewis Army base south of Seattle, in the northwestern state of Washington.

"He was sentenced to confinement for life with possibility of parole and a dishonorable discharge, with reduction to the rank of private," a military statement said.

The Army had decided before the court martial that it would not to seek the death penalty.

The 27-year-old soldier was found guilty this week on five counts of attempting to give intelligence and aid to al-Qaeda.









He was accused of seeking to collaborate with the terror group by sending it information on US army tactics and strategies. He declared his innocence to the five charges on August 9.

Anderson, who joined the National Guard in May 2002, was reported to have attempted to make contact with al-Qaeda through Internet chat rooms.

His activities were uncovered by Shannen Rossmiller, a municipal judge from Montana, who in her spare time sought to catch terrorists on the Internet.

Judge Rossmiller told prosecutors that while she was monitoring a website devoted to radical Muslims she happened upon an e-mail posting from one "Amid Abdul Rashid", who turned out to be Anderson.

The judge, masquerading as an extremist Muslim, began to correspond with Anderson. When she found out that he was a soldier, she contacted the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Anderson was arrested in February at his apartment in Lynnwood, Washington, just before his unit was to deploy to Iraq. An undercover sting operation had intercepted communications on January 23 and February 10.



privacy terms © The Australian

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:11:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.

That's .gov looking at everything you said on the web. IMs, discussion boards, e-mails, chat rooms, all of it.

It's OK though, we're all law abiding citizens with nothing to hide.

Yeah but everything here (forums, chat, IMs, etc) are not "private" speech.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:13:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:13:56 PM EDT by Bumblebee_Bob]
I'm sure I posted in some of the same threads as he. But I'm damn sure I never IM'd or e-mailed him. There are very few members I've contacted that way.

But if the .gov starts watching me they'll fall asleep and go comatose from the wild and crazy boring life I lead.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:17:34 PM EDT
The point I'm trying to make here has nothing to with Ryan Anderson aka RebelGrey. It has to with how you and I can innocently become involved and have all our communications targeted and listened to by the .gov.

And yes Paul, I realize nothing is secure on the web wire or airwaves but look at it this way. there are a few members here who have had transfers delayed, been put on no fly lists all with no explanation.
Perhaps they got innocently caught up in the RG investigation and had their private communications read. Maybe they said something in jest in an e-mail. Who knows?

This is why the PA is bad. We'll never know if that happened but it's very well possible that it did.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:18:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:20:15 PM EDT by Lord_Grey_Boots]

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.




I don't follow that logic. How does the roving wiretap go from the target to other persons? The roving wiretap follows the person. If they want to go after a new person, they would need a new warrant. I think you are reading something into the PA thats not there.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:18:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
But if the .gov starts watching me they'll fall asleep and go comatose from the wild and crazy boring life I lead.



I wouldn't worry about it...supposedly .gov had no idea 9-11 was going to happen. I doubt the "chatter" they are concerned about is here anyways...unless they have a vested interest in Colt v. Bushmaster, or BOTD violations...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:19:32 PM EDT
I think the patriot act was nescessary in a time of war, as long as it has an expiry date and can't be made permanant. I think extending it for another 5 years would have been accetable but as long as we don't get blown up by terrorists, I'm all fore letting it expire now.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:20:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.

[\quote]

I don't follow that logic. How does the roving wiretap go from the target to other persons? The roving wiretap follows the person. If they want to go after a new person, they would need a new warrant. I think you are reading something into the PA thats not there.




Thats how a roving wiretap works. If the guy in the originall warrant calls you, they can tap YOUR phone incase he calls you from another number besides his home phone. Any phone he might call or might use can be tapped.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:21:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.

[\quote]

I don't follow that logic. How does the roving wiretap go from the target to other persons? The roving wiretap follows the person. If they want to go after a new person, they would need a new warrant. I think you are reading something into the PA thats not there.


Yeah, my understanding is that a roving wiretap means that the target of the wiretap can be listened in on on whatever media he uses, but other people who talk to him can't be tapped unless the original target is on the line.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:23:41 PM EDT
So where is this magical right to privacy you speak of?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:32:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:34:27 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.

[\quote]

I don't follow that logic. How does the roving wiretap go from the target to other persons? The roving wiretap follows the person. If they want to go after a new person, they would need a new warrant. I think you are reading something into the PA thats not there.


Yeah, my understanding is that a roving wiretap means that the target of the wiretap can be listened in on on whatever media he uses, but other people who talk to him can't be tapped unless the original target is on the line.



Yep

Roving wiretaps have been in use against organized crime since forever the only thing the Patriot Act does is make them available against terrorist.… Captainpooby scenario could have happen anytime in the last 40 years... if you talked to a member of organized crime.

Now who do you think you have a better chance of talking to a mobster or a terrorist? A mobster of course so where has all this concern been for the last 40 years?

This is just silly.

Captainpooby is full of poopy on this
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:34:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DigDug:
So where is this magical right to privacy you speak of?



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:35:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:39:07 PM EDT by OODA_Loop]
Roving wiretaps essentially allow those empowered to follow the person across state lines/jurisdictional boundaries/cell phones. Nobody's tied to land lines anymore.

I hope RebelGrey is walking funny in prison.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:38:40 PM EDT
Plutonium
bomb
jihad


You're all marked now.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:44:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hexagonal:

Originally Posted By DigDug:
So where is this magical right to privacy you speak of?



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."



Doesn't say a thing in there about privacy. Try again.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:47:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.

[\quote]

I don't follow that logic. How does the roving wiretap go from the target to other persons? The roving wiretap follows the person. If they want to go after a new person, they would need a new warrant. I think you are reading something into the PA thats not there.


Yeah, my understanding is that a roving wiretap means that the target of the wiretap can be listened in on on whatever media he uses, but other people who talk to him can't be tapped unless the original target is on the line.



Yep

Roving wiretaps have been in use against organized crime since forever the only thing the Patriot Act does is make them available against terrorist.… Captainpooby scenario could have happen anytime in the last 40 years... if you talked to a member of organized crime.

Now who do you think you have a better chance of talking to a mobster or a terrorist? A mobster of course so where has all this concern been for the last 40 years?

This is just silly.

Captainpooby is full of poopy on this



Sorry Max, you are full of poopy.


Section 206, aka "Here, Rover"

Section 206 authorizes roving wiretaps: taps specific to no single phone or computer but to every phone or computer the target may use. It doesn't get as much attention as it should. If the government decides to tap a computer at the UCLA library, every communication by every user can theoretically be intercepted.
What it does: Expands FISA to permit surveillance of any communications made to or by an intelligence target without specifying the particular phone line or computer to be monitored.

The law before and how it changed: Taps were formerly applicable only to specific phones. Under Patriot, the FISA court can authorize taps or intercepts on any phones or computers that the target may use. The foreign intelligence authorities can require anyone to help them wiretap. Previously, they could only serve such orders on common carriers, landlords, or other specified persons. Along with Section 220, which allows a judge to authorize national wiretaps rather than ones limited to her jurisdiction, this severely undercuts a judge's ability to monitor whether taps are being used appropriately and erodes the "particularity" requirement of the Fourth Amendment.How it's been implemented: When asked in May to detail provisions of the Patriot Act that had helped federal authorities dismantle terrorist networks, the DOJ made no specific mention of section 206. (They also skipped 214.) That's slightly odd, since the DOJ has often used such open-ended questions to grandstand about renewing sunsetted provisions. The DOJ did tell the House Judiciary Committee in July 2002 that the number of roving wiretaps issued is classified, noting that we can "assure the committee that the Department's request for use of such authority … has been limited to those cases where the surveillance ordered by the Court would otherwise be, or would otherwise likely be, impossible." So, at least there's that.

Would you know if Section 206 had been used on you? Not unless the information was someday used to prosecute you.

Sunsets in 2005: Yes.

Enough to get you through a cocktail party: The vast expansion of warrant power is worrisome. The check on the use of wiretapping authority for government fishing expeditions was judicial oversight. Such oversight is impossible when taps are issued nationwide and to a range of phones and computers.


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:47:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.



Nice try, Poob.
RebelGrey deserved the jail term he got and probably more. The .gov damn well had better been checking up on who he was talking to. They would have been derelict if they had not!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:50:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.



Nice try, Poob.
RebelGrey deserved the jail term he got and probably more. The .gov damn well had better been checking up on who he was talking to. They would have been derelict if they had not!




You just dont get it. This thread has nothing to do with RG.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:52:52 PM EDT
If anyone wants to read my emails and posts in order to catch another potential rebel ghey or Jeffrey Dahmer than so be it. I don't even think about it as an inconvenience. Poeple who are stupid enough to post or send potentially incriminating stuff on the net deserve the Ultimate Cavity Search, deep and hard.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:55:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:59:24 PM EDT by bmick325]

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.

[\quote]

I don't follow that logic. How does the roving wiretap go from the target to other persons? The roving wiretap follows the person. If they want to go after a new person, they would need a new warrant. I think you are reading something into the PA thats not there.


Yeah, my understanding is that a roving wiretap means that the target of the wiretap can be listened in on on whatever media he uses, but other people who talk to him can't be tapped unless the original target is on the line.



We have a winner!

Old wiretap laws required a seperate search warrant for each and every telephone number. This became a big problem when cellphones came into widespread use. Criminals/terrorists could get a new phone or phone number every 2-3 days and the LEO's would spend all their time writing warrants that would be worthless because the suspect had already changed phones before the ink was dry. It was a classic case of the law not keeping up with technology.

The common sense solution to this is to write a warrant for the person and present it to telecom companies/ISP's. Then all the phone numbers and internet accounts the suspect has can be monitored. If he changes numbers, no problem, the provider (if competent) will let the LEO's know.

Common sense to me, but many believe the sky will fall if we try to stop international terrorism with anything more than 1920's technology.

ETA: Several people beat me to it while I was typing.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:02:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Sorry Max, you are full of poopy.


Section 206, aka "Here, Rover"

Section 206 authorizes roving wiretaps: taps specific to no single phone or computer but to every phone or computer the target may use. It doesn't get as much attention as it should. If the government decides to tap a computer at the UCLA library, every communication by every user can theoretically be intercepted.
What it does: Expands FISA to permit surveillance of any communications made to or by an intelligence target without specifying the particular phone line or computer to be monitored.

The law before and how it changed: Taps were formerly applicable only to specific phones. Under Patriot, the FISA court can authorize taps or intercepts on any phones or computers that the target may use. The foreign intelligence authorities can require anyone to help them wiretap. Previously, they could only serve such orders on common carriers, landlords, or other specified persons. Along with Section 220, which allows a judge to authorize national wiretaps rather than ones limited to her jurisdiction, this severely undercuts a judge's ability to monitor whether taps are being used appropriately and erodes the "particularity" requirement of the Fourth Amendment.How it's been implemented: When asked in May to detail provisions of the Patriot Act that had helped federal authorities dismantle terrorist networks, the DOJ made no specific mention of section 206. (They also skipped 214.) That's slightly odd, since the DOJ has often used such open-ended questions to grandstand about renewing sunsetted provisions. The DOJ did tell the House Judiciary Committee in July 2002 that the number of roving wiretaps issued is classified, noting that we can "assure the committee that the Department's request for use of such authority … has been limited to those cases where the surveillance ordered by the Court would otherwise be, or would otherwise likely be, impossible." So, at least there's that.

Would you know if Section 206 had been used on you? Not unless the information was someday used to prosecute you.

Sunsets in 2005: Yes.

Enough to get you through a cocktail party: The vast expansion of warrant power is worrisome. The check on the use of wiretapping authority for government fishing expeditions was judicial oversight. Such oversight is impossible when taps are issued nationwide and to a range of phones and computers.





Sorry pooby but you are still full of poopy… Got yourself again, this in no way contradicts what I said.

Note the word intelligence target in what you post… this in no way is new against organized crime.


Allows federal agents to follow sophisticated terrorists trained to evade detection. For years, law enforcement has been able to use "roving wiretaps" to investigate ordinary crimes, including drug offenses and racketeering. A roving wiretap can be authorized by a federal judge to apply to a particular suspect, rather than a particular phone or communications device. Because international terrorists are sophisticated and trained to thwart surveillance by rapidly changing locations and communication devices such as cell phones, the Act authorized agents to seek court permission to use the same techniques in national security investigations to track terrorists.


www.lifeandliberty.gov/highlights.htm
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:02:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DigDug:

Originally Posted By Hexagonal:

Originally Posted By DigDug:
So where is this magical right to privacy you speak of?



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."



Doesn't say a thing in there about privacy. Try again.



Doesn't say a thing inthe Second Amendment about machine guns either.
Now go away.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:03:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 4:05:05 PM EDT by SoCalJBT]

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.





Pooby's saying that because of his presence here, any of YOU could be placed under investigation.



Fine by me. I chipped in on a couple of threads he was in. If that makes me a target, I don't have a problem with that.

But then again, maybe you guys are right: we shouldn't be poking around on American soil. After all, mosques here couldn't be cover for terrorists, now could they? Terrorists like Mohammad Attah couldn't go to strip clubs just before they hit us, now could they? Tourists like the Millenium Bomber don't have explosives in their cars, now do they?

The government needs to pull out all the stops in this WAR ON TERROR, with or without the permission of the American left.

There is no middle ground. We will either win or .
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:05:24 PM EDT
thedoctors308 sounds like him in some of his post.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:06:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
He was a member here, later convicted of conspiring to sell secrets to Al Qeida.

Remember the roving wiretaps part of the patriot act?

With roving wiretaps, anyone here on this board who spoke with him in any thread or via IM or e-mail could have been targeted.



Nice try, Poob.
RebelGrey deserved the jail term he got and probably more. The .gov damn well had better been checking up on who he was talking to. They would have been derelict if they had not!




You just dont get it. This thread has nothing to do with RG.




Think the Patriot Act doesnt affect you? Remember RebelGrey?


You're the one who put him in the title.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:07:57 PM EDT
Aw geez, take a chill pill.

The .gov has been eavesdropping on our communications for decades via Echelon and other systems.


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:16:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:
thedoctors308 sounds like him in some of his post.



Yeah, I am sure those of us here who know or are learning Arabic are all going to end up like that shitstain, RebelGray.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:18:33 PM EDT
I believe that a Right to Privacy is atleast implied in the Constitution in the 4th and 5th Amendments. The problem is, it is being a catch all for so many issues where it never should apply. The granting of abortions because of a person's "right to privacy" is absurd.

I don't understand how people can feel they have any expectation of privacy regarding emails or IM's. This information is kept on multiple computers out of the possession or control of the person sending them.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:21:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Um, if any of you were in cahoots with Ryan Anderson's attempts to kill his comrades, guess what? I hope the government nails your ass to the wall.

Pooby, yours isn't exactly a good argument against the Patriot Act, it's a case for it.



I was thinking that too.
It's more of a "hey the patriot act works"
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:26:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 4:28:58 PM EDT by captainpooby]

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:



Sorry pooby but you are still full of poopy… Got yourself again, this in no way contradicts what I said.

Note the word intelligence target in what you post… this in no way is new against organized crime.


Allows federal agents to follow sophisticated terrorists trained to evade detection. For years, law enforcement has been able to use "roving wiretaps" to investigate ordinary crimes, including drug offenses and racketeering. A roving wiretap can be authorized by a federal judge to apply to a particular suspect, rather than a particular phone or communications device. Because international terrorists are sophisticated and trained to thwart surveillance by rapidly changing locations and communication devices such as cell phones, the Act authorized agents to seek court permission to use the same techniques in national security investigations to track terrorists.


www.lifeandliberty.gov/highlights.htm


Under Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968, a traditional phone wiretap could be obtained on a showing of probable cause that one of an enumerated list of crimes had been committed. Warrants were valid for only 30 days, and the government needed to report back to the court. Under the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act the requirements for a wiretap order were more minimal: The FBI didn't need probable cause or even reasonable suspicion to install a tap, but only had to certify to a judge that information resulting from such a warrant would be "relevant" to an ongoing criminal investigation. Section 214 doesn't change this standard but broadens the reach—making the FISA pen register/trap-and-trace power available in both criminal and foreign intelligence investigations, so long as the government merely certifies that the information obtained would be "relevant to an ongoing investigation." The probable-cause requirement in criminal cases is gone. Courts may not inquire into the truthfulness of the allegations before authorizing a tap.
Continue


Ahem.

ETA: If you guys think it's OK for .gov to poke around in your personal communications then there's no way I can win this argument because I dont think it's OK.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:29:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By raven:
Um, if any of you were in cahoots with Ryan Anderson's attempts to kill his comrades, guess what? I hope the government nails your ass to the wall.

Pooby, yours isn't exactly a good argument against the Patriot Act, it's a case for it.



I was thinking that too.
It's more of a "hey the patriot act works"



actually not really. Remember, it wasn't the government that busted this guy, it was some woman that was part of a non-governmental organization who did. I personally find it pretty sad that a woman with little funding can find a guy that the CIA couldn't.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:36:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
I'm sure I posted in some of the same threads as he. But I'm damn sure I never IM'd or e-mailed him.



Don't worry. We know.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:38:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 4:41:17 PM EDT by long-rifle-tactical]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:
thedoctors308 sounds like him in some of his post.



Yeah, I am sure those of us here who know or are learning Arabic are all going to end up like that shitstain, RebelGray.



For some like you and thedoctors308 it can happen.

Edited to add: Since you know so much, what does this say?

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:41:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 4:42:34 PM EDT by chas_martel]
captainpooby,

Pains me to say it, but, your trying to make a very good point in the wrong company.

This place is full of people that think there is nothing wrong with a flexible
Constitution.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:45:02 PM EDT
And really, let me clarify the point I was trying to make by this post.

Every time a PA thread comes up, supporters of the PS say "I dont care. I'm law abiding and have nothing to hide. Why would they come looking at me?"

I just proved that everyone on this board at the time of RebelGrey has probably been or could have been put in a file pertaining to a terrorism investigation. All your communications via the internet or telephone may have been monitored. Right or wrong good or bad.

Am I glad RG is doing life? You bet! I wish they hung him. Am I glad I probably was in some innocent way connected to him like we all were? No.

Am I happy my e-mails, IMs and phone conversations may have been monitored because of him? Hell no?

Why? BECAUSE I'm an innocent person with nothing to hide.

How about all the guys on this board who bought "Voting From the Rooftops" t-shirts online? Pretty easy to put them in the terrorist pile.

Wake up people, what seems innocent today, will be called terrorism tomorrow. It took about two months to start calling AR15s "weapons of mass destruction".


They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:05:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hexagonal:

Originally Posted By DigDug:

Originally Posted By Hexagonal:

Originally Posted By DigDug:
So where is this magical right to privacy you speak of?



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."



Doesn't say a thing in there about privacy. Try again.



Doesn't say a thing inthe Second Amendment about machine guns either.
Now go away.



Sure it does. The right to bear arms. A machine gun is an arm.

The right to unreasonable search and seizure is NOT privacy. You post something in a public forum, like the internet you have no right to privacy. If I am standing on the street and see you do something in your house, you have no right to privacy.

There is no right to privacy. That is a fallacy.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:05:57 PM EDT
I think he is refering to the fear of being labeled,targeted if you speak out and that in it's self is wrong. I don't think it's got to that point. yet. What is that I here, why it's the evil sheep alarm going off.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:06:46 PM EDT
He was a fucking traitor.

Its too damn bad we don't actually torture people. Its too damn bad he didn't go to the gallows. I'd have pulled the lever.

If you are prepared to betray your country, sack up and accept the consequences and don't snivel on the way to the wall.
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