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Posted: 12/16/2005 1:11:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 1:15:04 PM EDT by lippo]
While I think smoking is bad. Duh! And people should just be responsible enought to watch were they do smoke.

This kind of thing has SERIOUS implications to other aspects of life. LIKE our 2nd Amendment and our basic Freedom.

Do it, do it for the children...

washingtontimes.com/metro/20051215-112826-9119r.htm


Smoking foes try to stop parents from lighting up
By Tarron Lively
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
December 16, 2005


Anti-smoking activists who are driving cigarettes from public places across the country are now targeting private homes -- especially those with children.

Their efforts so far have contributed to regulations in three states -- Maine, Oklahoma and Vermont -- forbidding foster parents from smoking around children. Parental smoking also has become a critical point in some child-custody cases, including ones in Virginia and Maryland.

In a highly publicized Virginia case, a judge barred Caroline County resident Tamara Silvius from smoking around her children as a condition for child visitation.

Mrs. Silvius, a waitress at a truck stop in Doswell, Va., calls herself "highly disappointed" with the court's ruling.

"I'm an adult. Who is anybody to tell me I can't smoke or drink?" she said in an interview yesterday.

An appeals court upheld the ruling, but not before one judge raised questions about the extent to which a court should become involved in parental rights and whether certain behavior is harmful or simply not in a child's best interest.

Mrs. Silvius says she complied with the decision by altering her smoking habits.

"My children know not to come around when I'm on the front porch with my morning coffee, tending to my cows or out in my garden, because I'm having a cigarette," she said.

Still, she thinks this was not a matter for the courts because it was not proven that she posed a risk to her children's health.

"If a child suffers from asthma or some sort of problem, the courts shouldn't even have to be told to [step in]," Mrs. Silvius said. "That should be the parent's better judgment. But my kids aren't sick. If there's no health issue, it isn't the court's place to say someone can't do something that's perfectly legal, just because the other spouse doesn't want them to."

The smoking-at-home issue also sparked debate about whether such rulings will lead courts to become involved in such matters as parents' making poor TV programming choices for their children.

The nonprofit group Action on Smoking and Health is among the most outspoken on stopping parents from smoking around children.

"Children are the most vulnerable and the most defenseless victims of tobacco smoke," Executive Director John F. Banzhaf III said. "They should be entitled to the same protection as adults."

Mr. Banzhaf, also a professor of public interest law at George Washington University, said most complaints are made by nonsmoking ex-spouses, although some are filed by neighbors, relatives and physicians.

Maryland's Department of Human Resources, which provides adoption services, considers smoking a factor in deciding who will receive a child, but guidelines do not specifically address the issue.

"It's discussed and presented and looked at by caseworkers," said Judith Eveland, a program manager for the agency.

However, Miss Eveland said the agency would welcome regulations on restricting smoking in the homes of foster children.

"We certainly would be supportive [given] all the health issues associated with smoking," she said.

Adele L. Abrams, an attorney in Prince George's County specializing in child custody, divorce and family law, said smoking has been a factor in several custody disputes in recent years.

"Restraints might be put on visitation if one parent insists upon smoking or bringing in a girlfriend or boyfriend who smokes," said Ms. Abrams, whose practice serves the District and Anne Arundel, Baltimore, Howard and Montgomery counties.

She said children have a "more protective status" and that laws should protect children from secondhand smoke just as they are protected from parents and guardians who drink excessively or use drugs...(OR HAVE GUNS. Think they'll say that at some point?)

"Frankly, if it was a factor before the divorce, it's going to be a factor after the divorce," she said, "particularly if the child has asthma or some other respiratory disease."

Mindy Good, spokeswoman for the D.C. Child and Family Services Agency, said foster parents are not prohibited from smoking, but prospective ones are screened to fit a child's best interests.

"People who smoke are not barred from becoming foster parents," she said. "However, we are careful about children who have certain medical conditions. We would not, for example, place a child who has asthma in the home of a smoking foster parent. We are careful about those issues."


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:15:02 PM EDT
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:15:37 PM EDT
You have a point. Small step from coffin nails to firearms.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:16:07 PM EDT
Safety Nazi's never sleep...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:17:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



So you are willing to trade "safety" for some of your liberties?

Like I said, I don't like smoking and people should be responsible with it, but telling people what and what they can not do to this level is pretty low. Next thing you know, they'll tell you, that you can't hunt, because your bullets are dangerous.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:18:17 PM EDT
they're all tough until a pissed off smoker puts a cigarette out in their eye
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:18:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



So you are willing to trade "safety" for some of your liberties?

Like I said, I don't like smoking and people should be responsible with it, but telling people what and what they can not do to this level is pretty low. Next thing you know, they'll tell you, that you can't hunt, because your bullets are dangerous.

I think anyone stupid enough to smoke around their kids deserves jail time.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:19:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



Depends on who you ask.

If you're asking one of the "13 children are killed with a firearm every day in America", then it is no different at all.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:19:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
they're all tough until a pissed off smoker puts a cigarette out in their eye




Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:21:59 PM EDT
Guess who is suing, though. That's right, the ACLU. The "Native Americans" are pissed because they can't spark up a bowl in buildings during religous parties/ceremonies. After they win, go ahead and tell the smoking Nazi you are enjoying a brief period of worship. After all, Scuslims get 15 minutes at a pop to stick their asses in the air.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:24:15 PM EDT
So who here supports subjecting kids to second hand smoke?


Who here supports women smoking while pregnant?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:27:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



True, but they will argue that if the child gets ahold of that gun...the gun will kill the child much faster than would a cigarete.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:30:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yossarian:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



True, but they will argue that if the child gets ahold of that gun...the gun will kill the child much faster than would a cigarete.

I don't think kids should be allowed around gun not supervised by a responsible person. Anyone that smokes around their child is not a responsible person. People that need the law to tell them what to to won't pay attention to it, People that will pay attention to it, have no need for a law.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:30:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:32:05 PM EDT
Slippery slope
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:37:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



So you are willing to trade "safety" for some of your liberties?

Like I said, I don't like smoking and people should be responsible with it, but telling people what and what they can not do to this level is pretty low. Next thing you know, they'll tell you, that you can't hunt, because your bullets are dangerous.

I think anyone stupid enough to smoke around their kids deserves jail time.



Dusty,
Not to poke the hornet's nest, but tell me,





What do you think? Would you call for beheading anyone stupid enough to expose their family to the possibility of contracting any of a number of blood borne pathogens. You know the kind you can get from getting tattoos and body piercing.


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:37:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
So who here supports subjecting kids to second hand smoke?


Who here supports women smoking while pregnant?




If it's not My wife or My kid it's not my fucking business,and it's not the governments either.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:39:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 1:42:28 PM EDT by Dusty_C]

Originally Posted By NFBBM:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



So you are willing to trade "safety" for some of your liberties?

Like I said, I don't like smoking and people should be responsible with it, but telling people what and what they can not do to this level is pretty low. Next thing you know, they'll tell you, that you can't hunt, because your bullets are dangerous.

I think anyone stupid enough to smoke around their kids deserves jail time.



Dusty,
Not to poke the hornet's nest, but tell me,





What do you think? Would you call for beheading anyone stupid enough to expose their family to the possibility of contracting any of a number of blood borne pathogens. You know the kind you can get from getting tattoos and body piercing.



You really need to get some education about bloodborne pathogens. I'm responsible enough to get my stuff in a clean shop. I've NEVER had a personal encounter with anyone whose had an infection from a piercing or tattoo that dial soap didn't clear up. The number of people I've encountered with mods is literally in the thousands. Second, my family wouldn't be exposed to anything I might get from it. Having sex is more dangerous than a tattoo.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:41:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By NFBBM:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



So you are willing to trade "safety" for some of your liberties?

Like I said, I don't like smoking and people should be responsible with it, but telling people what and what they can not do to this level is pretty low. Next thing you know, they'll tell you, that you can't hunt, because your bullets are dangerous.

I think anyone stupid enough to smoke around their kids deserves jail time.



Dusty,
Not to poke the hornet's nest, but tell me,





What do you think? Would you call for beheading anyone stupid enough to expose their family to the possibility of contracting any of a number of blood borne pathogens. You know the kind you can get from getting tattoos and body piercing.
You really need to get some education about bloodborne pathogens.





Me thinks not.

The 10 hour BBP class each year is plenty.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:47:08 PM EDT
SNIP


Me thinks not.

The 10 hour BBP class each year is plenty.
Wow, thats a lot Ok Mr Genius, how many people get nasty infections every year from tats or piercings?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:47:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.


I have to agree.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 1:49:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
SNIP


Me thinks not.

The 10 hour BBP class each year is plenty.
Wow, thats a lot Ok Mr Genius, how many people get nasty infections every year from tats or piercings?




47% of all statistics are made up.
63% of all American's know that.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:14:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
SNIP


Me thinks not.

The 10 hour BBP class each year is plenty.
Wow, thats a lot Ok Mr Genius, how many people get nasty infections every year from tats or piercings?



I have no idea. Evidently "Dial Soap" works better than I thought.
(Note to self: Notify the CDC re. Dial Soap)

Dusty, I'm not attacking tats or body piercing. Only the hypocrisy of your post.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:17:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



I don't like smoking and enjoy going to smoke-free restaurants and bars, however that study that declared "second hand smoke kills" was struck down in court. The new numbers of "projected" death-by-second-hand-smoke was based off the same study.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:18:59 PM EDT
Sometimes, I smoke inside so i can inhale the smoke i just exhaled.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:20:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NFBBM:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
SNIP


Me thinks not.

The 10 hour BBP class each year is plenty.
Wow, thats a lot Ok Mr Genius, how many people get nasty infections every year from tats or piercings?



I have no idea. Evidently "Dial Soap" works better than I thought.
(Note to self: Notify the CDC re. Dial Soap)

Dusty, I'm not attacking tats or body piercing. Only the hypocrisy of your post.


The chances of me getting something from a body piercing or tattoo and then passing it on to my family are so astronomical it's not even funny, there is no hypocrisy in my post.


Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



I don't like smoking and enjoy going to smoke-free restaurants and bars, however that study that declared "second hand smoke kills" was struck down in court. The new numbers of "projected" death-by-second-hand-smoke was based off the same study.


I've lived with a child that had to be taken to the ER everytime his father smoked around him. We all know thanks to are foes at the DU that it's easy to skew study results. A simple fact is that children who are smoked around are generally sicker and have higher rates of breathing problems like Asthma.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:21:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:23:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:28:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:28:42 PM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:28:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



+1

I think it's perfectly fine to screen foster parents based on the environment they create for the children they foster. Smoking in the house affects that environment.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:30:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:32:22 PM EDT by Dusty_C]
Smoking is one of those things we call character indicators. People give me shit about my ink and metal but they don't hurt anyone, except me for a few seconds. 2 weeks, to a month afterwards they are cleared up and no biggie. People wanna judge me for that, fine. You smoke, knowing all that it's doing to you your an idiot. You smoke knowing what it's doing to people around you and take the attitude "I don't care" then your just an inconsiderate ass. All that being said I don't support a legal ban on it.
If you do smoke around your kids, yeah you deserve to be punished. But more law is NOT what this country needs. Like I said, responsible mature people don't need a law to tell them what to do, irresponsible immature people will ignore any law they want to.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:30:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:34:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
A gun in a room with a kid MIGHT be dangerous, An adult smoking in a room with a kid IS killing that child slowly. It's a tad different.



+1

I think it's perfectly fine to screen foster parents based on the environment they create for the children they foster. Smoking in the house affects that environment.



So, in the future world its totally OK for a homosexual couple to adopt but not a guy who enjoys an occasional cigar. Alrighty then!

Nice world you guys are making.

Tj

Ok here's some hypocricy for ya'll. I do enjoy an occasional cigar. I could debate the differences between smoking a cigar 2 or 3 times a week with zero additives I won't. I don't do it with my kid around or even in the house where she is.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:34:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Smoking is one of those things we call character indicators. People give me shit about my ink and metal but they don't hurt anyone, except me for a few seconds. 2 weeks, to a month afterwards they are cleared up and no biggie. People wanna judge me for that, fine. You smoke, knowing all that it's doing to you your an idiot. You smoke knowing what it's doing to people around you and take the attitude "I don't care" then your just an inconsiderate ass. All that being said I don't support a legal ban on it.
If you do smoke around your kids, yeah you deserve to be punished. But more law is NOT what this country needs. Like I said, responsible mature people don't need a law to tell them what to do, irresponsible immature people will ignore any law they want to.



Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:35:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:44:39 PM EDT
Can we rush any faster to give our GD rights away? Particularly those based solely on junk science. I hate smoke too, but let's be honest, there is no proof that SHS is a health risk to anyone other than a rare few.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:54:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:24:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
So who here supports subjecting kids to second hand smoke?


Who here supports women smoking while pregnant?



So who here supports innocent victims of gun violence?...

what's your point?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:30:43 PM EDT
NOBODY tells me what i can and can't do in my own home
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:30:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 10mmFan:
Can we rush any faster to give our GD rights away? Particularly those based solely on junk science. I hate smoke too, but let's be honest, there is no proof that SHS is a health risk to anyone other than a rare few.



I have said it before...many on here think the only rights we should be concerned about are 2A rights, and they will side with any degenerate who happens to like black guns as well. *sighs* For you smoking Nazis...you want the Feds to regulate the calorie intake of kids? Seems to me a lot of fat ass kids waddling around...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:32:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PROFESSORCHAOS:
NOBODY tells me what i can and can't do in my own home



Unles a private developer wants your home, then it won't be your home anymore...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:46:05 PM EDT
Very slippery slope. As a whole, smokers are self-centered, self-loathing people who do not have a great deal of respect for others. Case in point: Throwing cigarette butts out of their car window, or smoking at the front door of a non-smoking building so that everyone entering or leaving the building has to smell their addiction. I know there are a few exceptions to this rule, but in general it is accurate. However, banning smoking does wreak of infringing on personal liberties. As I have said before, smoking sections in restaraunts should be enclosed rooms so that smokers can enjoy their addiction without having to worry about losing the aroma to the non-smoking section, and we, as non-smokers, can eat in the non-smoking section without smelling that stank. Smokers should also keep their car windows rolled up and butts in the car, and be ticketed for littering when disposing of their butts irresponsibly. IMO

Blake
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:07:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
LOL, The government has done such a wonderful job of keeping maryjauna out of the home.

That's alright CM, they'll be banning alcohol next and you can jump on that ban wagon too.

All I can say to you guys is those who want to ban are the same people who want to ban your guns.

Excuse me if I don't care to support them in their successes in banning. You see that's what its all about. It's about feedom and taking it away.

Tj




Let me repeat TJ again...

All I can say to you guys is those who want to ban are the same people who want to ban your guns.

It's about feedom and taking it away.



I am always surprized at how many people are willing to MAKE people give up their Freedom, because they THINK something is bad.

FOR THE RECORD...I HATE SMOKING....BUT I am not willing to trade another persons Freedom TO smoke for safety because someone may "feel" it's bad. George Burns smoke a cigar everyday until he died. He was in his 90's I believe. My Grandpa and Grandma both smoke for the majority of their lives and they lived to 91 and 88 respectively. I have friends that smoke. I wish they wouldn't and they DO ask me if it's ok if they smoke first. And if I don't feel like breathing it, I say no. And I have said no.

BUT as Thomas Jefferson said quoting Cesare Beccaria ..."False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.

Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, the most important of the code, will respect the less important and arbitrary ones, which can be violated with ease and impunity, and which, if strictly obeyed, would put an end to personal liberty... and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer?

Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventive but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree."


Banning smoking is just as bad as banning guns.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:11:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 7:11:35 PM EDT by Treadhead]
Smokin' my ass off as I read this

'course, my DIET'LL kill me before the Kools will.
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