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Posted: 12/15/2005 7:56:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:27:19 AM EDT by falaholic1]
75gr TAP work ok?

Out of a 14.5" (w/phantom) AR (1/9 barrel)

I also have some 69 and 62 gr HP's
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:27:42 AM EDT
bump.. does no one hunt deer?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:36:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:38:19 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
bump.. does no one hunt deer?



The 75 gr TAP might work too well for this application, since the goal of hunting is to make an effective, yet non-devastating wound. Afterall, you don't want to ruin the meat.

A nice soft point load in the 60-70 gr range (the Winchester PP 64 GR has always been my favorite load for deer hunting in the caliber) is probably what you want.

And though you are probably already aware of this, the .223 is a pretty marginal caliber for deer anyway. But with good shot placement and judgement along with proper ammunition choice, you can cleanly take deer with the .223.

Again, I'd go with a good SP load.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:51:44 AM EDT
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but it seems like the right one to ask:

How well would 55gr. Hornady V-Maxes in .223 out of a 16" barrel do on deer?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:53:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spork:
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but it seems like the right one to ask:

How well would 55gr. Hornady V-Maxes in .223 out of a 16" barrel do on deer?


That is a varmint bullet. Bad for deer. If you reload, use the 60gr Nosler partition.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:55:42 AM EDT
No, I don't reload.

What about 64gr. Winchester Super Power Points in .223?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:58:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:59:43 AM EDT by Barrelburner]

Originally Posted By spork:
No, I don't reload.

What about 64gr. Winchester Super Power Points in .223?


That would probably be the next best thing...IIRC Winchester came out with this round for deer hunters. There are better things for shooting deer than a .223, but if you must use the .223, that would be one option.

ETA shot placement is the most important thing, especially with a less-than-optimal cartridge.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:23:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:28:16 AM EDT by kingfish]
Use some sort of 30 cal. 223 out of a 14" barrel? That wont drop a 90lb woman.

Here's a quote from Michael Yon's blog over in Iraq

"Prosser shot the man at least four times with his M4 rifle. But the American M4 rifles are weak - after Prosser landed three nearly point blank shots in the man's abdomen, splattering a testicle with a fourth, the man just staggered back, regrouped and tried to shoot Prosser."
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:55:00 AM EDT
The hunting forum is that way ------------------>
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:02:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 4:10:28 AM EDT by White-Feather]
.223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill.

A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question...

Legal..? yes.

Moral and Ethical... hardly

.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.

ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:24:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By White-Feather:
.223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill.

A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question...

Legal..? yes.

Moral and Ethical... hardly

.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.



Thank you for saying it.

Do you think he will bother to sight in his rifle with his
not-yet-chosen round?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:24:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By White-Feather:
.223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill.

A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question...

Legal..? yes.

Moral and Ethical... hardly

.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.

ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.



Good advice.

falaholic1,

If you insist on using .223, please shoot it in the chest. It's a huge target and will bring it down. Just brush up on your tracking skills.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:31:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By White-Feather:
.223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill.

A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question...

Legal..? yes.

Moral and Ethical... hardly

.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.

ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.



Hey, guess what, a week ago I saw a deer get shot with a .300 WinMag and it ran away and the goofball that came up here to hunt never found his deer. I guess that means .300 Winmag is underpowered for a quick humane instant kill too. Gonna have to start hunting with arty strikes now.

I have seen a great number of deer harvested humanely with .223. This holier than thou attitude of some hunters gets on my nerves.

While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Who gives a rusty fuck what anyone thinks about the rifle you use. I hunt deer to put meat on the table and keep them from destroying crops and hitting cars. I have a neighbor down the ridge that killed a deer with a rock once. (I've told this story a few time before). What is a "real hunter"? You mean someone that is trying to kill a deer? I don't get your attitude. It's just not that hard to kill a deer. We just hung a deer in the shed yesterday that one of the kids down the county road shot with a .22 magnum. I say kid, but he's 17, and that kid has taken a LOT of deer. Last year he whacked one with a .223. It died instantly by the way. Nice head shot.

My neighbor has a plan to get one with a spear. He hasn't finished his spear yet, He has to forge the spear head still. I'll post pics after.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:36:42 AM EDT
Use the Winchesters and leave the match bullets at home. Texas deer, even the South Texas types, are NOT the same as Eastern PA monsters. If you don't hit major bones, that bullet will go completely through, leaving a good-sized wound.

Shit, if a .308 Winchester with its 2200 ft*lbs of energy is good for a 1200 pound elk, 1000 ft*lbs from a .223 Remington should be more than enough for a 120 pound deer. The energy argument falls flat on its face here.

The only reason .223 has been maligned for use on deer is the construction of the bullets at one time typical for this caliber.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:50:46 AM EDT
Interesting how when we hear people say "The 5.56 was only designed to wound people on the battlefield" people come out of the woodwork to say thats "Not true, its very effective, it fragments, blah, blah, blah".

Then when someone wants to use it on deer it as very marginal, risking the loss of a wounded deer.

Is it just me... or is there a logic disconnect here.

Of course it goes without saying anything a .223 can do a .308 will do better. But I use calibers that split the difference between .223 and .308 when I hunt. The deer couldn't die any faster. My results with calibers less then .308 have tempted me to to use the .223 but I have not yet tried it. Of course, our typical MI deer is a little bigger then a typical TX deer.

Kent
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:51:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:

Originally Posted By White-Feather:
.223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill.

A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question...

Legal..? yes.

Moral and Ethical... hardly

.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.

ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.



Hey, guess what, a week ago I saw a deer get shot with a .300 WinMag and it ran away and the goofball that came up here to hunt never found his deer. I guess that means .300 Winmag is underpowered for a quick humane instant kill too. Gonna have to start hunting with arty strikes now.

I have seen a great number of deer harvested humanely with .223. This holier than thou attitude of some hunters gets on my nerves.

While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Who gives a rusty fuck what anyone thinks about the rifle you use. I hunt deer to put meat on the table and keep them from destroying crops and hitting cars. I have a neighbor down the ridge that killed a deer with a rock once. (I've told this story a few time before). What is a "real hunter"? You mean someone that is trying to kill a deer? I don't get your attitude. It's just not that hard to kill a deer. We just hung a deer in the shed yesterday that one of the kids down the county road shot with a .22 magnum. I say kid, but he's 17, and that kid has taken a LOT of deer. Last year he whacked one with a .223. It died instantly by the way. Nice head shot.

My neighbor has a plan to get one with a spear. He hasn't finished his spear yet, He has to forge the spear head still. I'll post pics after.



Did you ever think that the guy with the .300 didnt place his shot well...?? maybe he cant hit the broad side of a barn from 5 feet, or water if he fell out of a boat...

as far as the rest of your post... its typical dribble..
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:54:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Use the Winchesters and leave the match bullets at home. Texas deer, even the South Texas types, are NOT the same as Eastern PA monsters. If you don't hit major bones, that bullet will go completely through, leaving a good-sized wound.

Shit, if a .308 Winchester with its 2200 ft*lbs of energy is good for a 1200 pound elk, 1000 ft*lbs from a .223 Remington should be more than enough for a 120 pound deer. The energy argument falls flat on its face here.

The only reason .223 has been maligned for use on deer is the construction of the bullets at one time typical for this caliber.



No, the reason the .223 is maligned for deer hunting is that the round lacks sufficient penetration if you have to take anything other than a broadside shot. If people are disciplined enough to only take standing broadside shots, then the round will work just fine. Of course, with that stricture, a .22 magnum will also kill reliably (it's what all the poachers around here shoot).

It's not about whether they CAN kill a deer, it is about how frequently they FAIL to do so quickly and humanely. YMMV
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:29:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kingfish:

"Prosser shot the man at least four times with his M4 rifle. But the American M4 rifles are weak - after Prosser landed three nearly point blank shots in the man's abdomen, splattering a testicle with a fourth, the man just staggered back, regrouped and tried to shoot Prosser."



Ummm, I'd say if you shot the deer in the gut even with one of the 30cal wonder-mags you are going to have a long day of tracking. Since when did the testicles become the prefered stopping location. A .30 isn't going to blow the deer off it's feet, but it will be a better choice even with good shot placement.

I'd certainly stay away from ballistic tips.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:36:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Use some sort of 30 cal. 223 out of a 14" barrel? That wont drop a 90lb woman.

Here's a quote from Michael Yon's blog over in Iraq

"Prosser shot the man at least four times with his M4 rifle. But the American M4 rifles are weak - after Prosser landed three nearly point blank shots in the man's abdomen, splattering a testicle with a fourth, the man just staggered back, regrouped and tried to shoot Prosser."



Ok tell that to all the dead Vietnamese, Iraqi's, Somalian's, Afghani's and all the other metric fuck load tons of people that .223 has killed.

Wanna come over to my house and see if I can drop you with mine?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:51:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Use some sort of 30 cal. 223 out of a 14" barrel? That wont drop a 90lb woman.

Here's a quote from Michael Yon's blog over in Iraq

"Prosser shot the man at least four times with his M4 rifle. But the American M4 rifles are weak - after Prosser landed three nearly point blank shots in the man's abdomen, splattering a testicle with a fourth, the man just staggered back, regrouped and tried to shoot Prosser."



Ok tell that to all the dead Vietnamese, Iraqi's, Somalian's, Afghani's and all the other metric fuck load tons of people that .223 has killed.

Wanna come over to my house and see if I can drop you with mine?



In each of those conflicts there are many many reports (esp out of short AR's) stating multiple hits needed to drop an attacker.

As a hunter, I don't think it is a good idea to use a short AR you do not have enough speed at the distance you are going to be shooting for the bullet to do its work. For deer you could be talking anywhere from 75 to 200 yards.

If you have a 20 inch upper, get some 60 gr partitions or spire points intended for heavy game.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:59:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:20:48 AM EDT




Put the bullet in the vitals (lungs, heart) or the brain and the deer will die.

The deer we hunt down here are about 100lbs, give or take 10-20. My hunting buddy's German Shepherd is around that size. Think a .223 would kill that dog?

The biggest problem with hunters is a lack of skills in tracking, stalking, marksmanship, anatomy and woodcraft. Weapon caliber is not the problem.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:08:50 AM EDT

Did you ever think that the guy with the .300 didnt place his shot well...?? maybe he cant hit the broad side of a barn from 5 feet, or water if he fell out of a boat...

as far as the rest of your post... its typical dribble..



That he didn't place his shot well is exactly my point. If you shoot the deer in a vital area with a .223 it will kill it humanely. I've seen it done, and done it myself way too many times to give any credibility to those that turn up their noses at hunters that use anything outside of the caliber that they personally feel is appropriate. If you don't want to use .223 that's fine. I don't care. If you want to tell all the rest of us that it is immoral, or some other nonsense like that I will contest your statement.

It's perfectly legal to use .223 to hunt deer in West Virginia. The .223 round WILL kill a deer humanely. We don't waste deer up here, and if you don't kill your deer humanely you get the back of your shirt cut off, after the whole ridge goes out and tries to find the deer you lost. I am not a proponent of causing an animal to suffer while being harvested.

Have you ever shot a deer with a .223 round? Or is your opinion based on what you heard at Walmart while picking up your deer tag?

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:02:07 PM EDT
But if he is going to use a .223, I recommend THIS or THIS.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:06:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:08:01 PM EDT by Matthew_Q]
10mm caseless explosive tip

Or nuke from orbit... it's the only way to be sure!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:17:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:20:15 PM EDT by RIA45ACP]

Originally Posted By White-Feather:
.223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill.

A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question...

Legal..? yes.

Moral and Ethical... hardly

.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.

ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.



I call major BS on this, My Grandfather hunts deer with a 223 using Winchesters 45 Grain Varmint load, every one he has shot dropped instantly. I myself use a 243 with a handloaded 85 grain Sierra, deer never move more than 2 or 3 feet from the spot they were in when I shot them. Its moral and ethical to me if I know they will drop when shot, and they do. Shot placement means everything.

IMO most of the people I see hunt with 30's and even worse the damn 7mm mag cant shoot them for shit due to being afraid of the recoil and we end up tracking wounded deer that have jumped onto our property. It tends to piss you off when someone mocks your caliber of choice as to small and then comes to ask you for help tracking the deer they wounded with there damn cannon.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:22:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:22:31 PM EDT by Barrelburner]

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Use some sort of 30 cal. 223 out of a 14" barrel? That wont drop a 90lb woman.

Here's a quote from Michael Yon's blog over in Iraq

"Prosser shot the man at least four times with his M4 rifle. But the American M4 rifles are weak - after Prosser landed three nearly point blank shots in the man's abdomen, splattering a testicle with a fourth, the man just staggered back, regrouped and tried to shoot Prosser."

What is a "30 cal. 223"?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:32:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:33:27 PM EDT by CR_OPSO]

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Use some sort of 30 cal. 223 out of a 14" barrel? That wont drop a 90lb woman.

Here's a quote from Michael Yon's blog over in Iraq

"Prosser shot the man at least four times with his M4 rifle. But the American M4 rifles are weak - after Prosser landed three nearly point blank shots in the man's abdomen, splattering a testicle with a fourth, the man just staggered back, regrouped and tried to shoot Prosser."

What is a "30 cal. 223"?



I had to read that again, too. Although it's hard to tell because of the abbreviation, it is 2 sentences fragments.

It reads:
Use some sort of 30 cal.
223 out of a 14" barrel?

I just noticed... he even put 2 spaces after the period, but for some reason when you submit it, it only looks like 1 space.

CR
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:35:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 2:36:35 PM EDT by OG10807]
i load my own for deer and it works just fine

LC case
65 gr sierra game king
27 gr W748 powder
CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer

COL 2.250"
~2980'/sec 16" barrel

loaded for velocity (accuracy is around 2" off a bench at 100 yards)
16" chrome lined barrel
1/7 twist



Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:47:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Use some sort of 30 cal. 223 out of a 14" barrel? That wont drop a 90lb woman.

Here's a quote from Michael Yon's blog over in Iraq

"Prosser shot the man at least four times with his M4 rifle. But the American M4 rifles are weak - after Prosser landed three nearly point blank shots in the man's abdomen, splattering a testicle with a fourth, the man just staggered back, regrouped and tried to shoot Prosser."



Yes, because there are SO many vital organs around the groin that will OMGZ kill you instantly.



Only way to RELIABLY kill someone instantly is to get a headshot or a spinal cord hit. No, not even a heart hit will kill instantly. The person will be dead in a couple seconds, but that gives them enough time to shoot back.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:41:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:

Did you ever think that the guy with the .300 didnt place his shot well...?? maybe he cant hit the broad side of a barn from 5 feet, or water if he fell out of a boat...

as far as the rest of your post... its typical dribble..



That he didn't place his shot well is exactly my point. If you shoot the deer in a vital area with a .223 it will kill it humanely. I've seen it done, and done it myself way too many times to give any credibility to those that turn up their noses at hunters that use anything outside of the caliber that they personally feel is appropriate. If you don't want to use .223 that's fine. I don't care. If you want to tell all the rest of us that it is immoral, or some other nonsense like that I will contest your statement.

It's perfectly legal to use .223 to hunt deer in West Virginia. The .223 round WILL kill a deer humanely. We don't waste deer up here, and if you don't kill your deer humanely you get the back of your shirt cut off, after the whole ridge goes out and tries to find the deer you lost. I am not a proponent of causing an animal to suffer while being harvested.

Have you ever shot a deer with a .223 round? Or is your opinion based on what you heard at Walmart while picking up your deer tag?




LOL... now you show true colors...

I typed out a big long answer to your post... but all the way thru it I kept thinking 1 thing...

FOAD...!!

that pretty much sums it up...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:48:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
75gr TAP work ok?

Out of a 14.5" (w/phantom) AR (1/9 barrel)

I also have some 69 and 62 gr HP's



75gr TAP works fine for The guys at CMMG

Jeff, droped one at 300yds, with on of ther 16" SST uppers
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:50:19 PM EDT
I don't hunt, but what is wrong with good ol' 30-06?

From a lever action.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:52:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
bump.. does no one hunt deer?



The 75 gr TAP might work too well for this application, since the goal of hunting is to make an effective, yet non-devastating wound. Afterall, you don't want to ruin the meat.

A nice soft point load in the 60-70 gr range (the Winchester PP 64 GR has always been my favorite load for deer hunting in the caliber) is probably what you want.

And though you are probably already aware of this, the .223 is a pretty marginal caliber for deer anyway. But with good shot placement and judgement along with proper ammunition choice, you can cleanly take deer with the .223.

Again, I'd go with a good SP load.



The deer that I killed last year was with a 75 gr TAP out of a 16" bbl. It was a little too devastating at 115 yards. The deer didn't go anywhere but the round really tore it up.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:30:27 PM EDT

IMO most of the people I see hunt with 30's and even worse the damn 7mm mag cant shoot them for shit due to being afraid of the recoil


Said Vagina's shouldn't be in the woods anyway! I don't get the fear of recoil from guns like that..its one damn shot its not going to take your arm off.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:31:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:
I don't hunt, but what is wrong with good ol' 30-06?

From a lever action.



Spire points in a tubular magazine for one thing!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:51:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Followthehollow:

IMO most of the people I see hunt with 30's and even worse the damn 7mm mag cant shoot them for shit due to being afraid of the recoil


Said Vagina's shouldn't be in the woods anyway! I don't get the fear of recoil from guns like that..its one damn shot its not going to take your arm off.



I dont get the fear either, my guess has always been that they dont shoot enough to get used to the recoil. That and alot of people have rifles built way to light for the chosen caliber which makes the recoil worse in my experience.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:38:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Followthehollow:

Originally Posted By capnrob97:
I don't hunt, but what is wrong with good ol' 30-06?

From a lever action.



Spire points in a tubular magazine for one thing!



Oh yes, there IS a lever action .30-06! And there are quite a few lever repeaters that do not use tubular magazines...

Winchester M1895, Winchester 88, Savage 99 among the few...
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:42:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Followthehollow:

Originally Posted By capnrob97:
I don't hunt, but what is wrong with good ol' 30-06?

From a lever action.



Spire points in a tubular magazine for one thing!



Oh yes, there IS a lever action .30-06! And there are quite a few lever repeaters that do not use tubular magazines...

Winchester M1895, Winchester 88, Savage 99 among the few...



I stand corrected! I'm not well versed on lever guns
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:43:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
bump.. does no one hunt deer?


Not with that.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:50:42 PM EDT
I know a person who claims to hunt TX dear with 7.62 x 54R. Is it legal to hunt with FMJ? I've not noticed any 7.62 x 54R that isn't FMJ. I don’t hunt so I am not well versed in this sort of thing.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:51:15 PM EDT
stick to 3131a
they work

lebrew
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:53:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lebrew:
stick to 3131a
they work

lebrew


Don't try that in the many states that forbid non-expanding bullets. You will not like the results.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:55:16 PM EDT
And here I thought we might get through this whole deer season without having this argument. Again.hinking.gif
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:55:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
I know a person who claims to hunt TX dear with 7.62 x 54R. Is it legal to hunt with FMJ? I've not noticed any 7.62 x 54R that isn't FMJ. I don’t hunt so I am not well versed in this sort of thing.



Ammunitionstore.com sells Sellier & Bellot,Prvi Partizan, Wolf , Brown Bear and Silver Bear in Soft point.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:59:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
I know a person who claims to hunt TX dear with 7.62 x 54R. Is it legal to hunt with FMJ? I've not noticed any 7.62 x 54R that isn't FMJ. I don’t hunt so I am not well versed in this sort of thing.



Ammunitionstore.com sells Sellier & Bellot,Prvi Partizan, Wolf , Brown Bear and Silver Bear in Soft point.



Good to know. If I ever buy a Russian rifle I'll keep that in mind. While we are on the subject, does anyone know if 7.5 Swiss was/is made in anything other than FMJ?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:00:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By White-Feather:
.223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill.

A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question...

Legal..? yes.

Moral and Ethical... hardly

.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.

ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.



+23.7 kajillion!


That ain't no shit. If you can't kill an animal instantly with one well placed shot, then stay home.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:06:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RIA45ACP:

Originally Posted By Followthehollow:

IMO most of the people I see hunt with 30's and even worse the damn 7mm mag cant shoot them for shit due to being afraid of the recoil


Said Vagina's shouldn't be in the woods anyway! I don't get the fear of recoil from guns like that..its one damn shot its not going to take your arm off.



I dont get the fear either, my guess has always been that they dont shoot enough to get used to the recoil. That and alot of people have rifles built way to light for the chosen caliber which makes the recoil worse in my experience.



That will never be a problem with the 150lb FAL I drag around for hunting.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:07:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By White-Feather:
.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.

I'd rather be a competant shooter with a 223 than a "one box of ammo a year" shooter with a 300 super duper magnum.

The most important factor is hitting the target in the right spot. I don't think .243 is the "minimum." In Scotland Co, NC they had a law for years that didn't allow any caliber larger than 22. 22-250 was used by almost every hunter there, and many many whitetails were harvested using it. If you're a good shooter who knows his limitations, and you have a quality bullet to shoot, the 223 should be OK, but accept the fact that it is not forgiving.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:13:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 7:16:44 PM EDT by OG10807]

Originally Posted By piccolo:

Originally Posted By White-Feather:
.223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill.

A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question...

Legal..? yes.

Moral and Ethical... hardly

.243 should be your minimum choice for Deer.

ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.



+23.7 kajillion!


That ain't no shit. If you can't kill an animal instantly with one well placed shot, then stay home.



define instantly

because if you shooting them in the chest they usually don't drop like you flipped the "DIE NOW" switch.

i will continue to use .223 because it works and i am proficient with my AR. It has nothing to do with being cool or tactical or any other buzz words.

BTW the comment about appearing as God is just ignorant and foolish.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:20:55 PM EDT

because if you shooting them in the chest they usually don't drop like you flipped the "DIE NOW" switch.



I beg to differ! from my experience they do!

Of course that just echo's what has been said, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. I've killed deer with anything from .223 up to .338 win mag and 30-378 Weatherby. I currently use either a .243 or a .300 RUM depending on the mood and where I'm hunting at the time. If you have good shot placement, it will die. period, so use whatever you can shoot accurately and feel confident with.
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