The Wichester 64 gr work great. I hand load them. I also like the Speer 70 gr Soft pts. . I want to try the new Barns 70 gr bullet for deer hunting. That one should be the top choice if accurate. I killed a nice 5X4 North Kaibab buck several years ago at 300 yds with a Sierra game king out of my 270. Way too much meat damage as I lost the entire right front quarter. So, I've switched to the 223. I like the 20" just because but if I can get the 70 gr up to speed in a 16", I'll use that. I get 3000 fps with the 70 gr Speers in a 20".

LEARN TO SHOOT.   I have shot  deer out to 220 yards with a rem. model 7 ( 18in. bbl.) , and an XP100(14 in  bbl )  .  None have gone more than 10 feet.    

In my experience.
If you shoot him broad side through the heart and  both lungs he will drop damn quick. Bow and gun
If you shoot him broad side through both lungs he is not making it any further than 100 yds. bow and gun
Both shots ruin very little meat.  There is not a whole lot of meat between the ribs compared to his shoulders
If you shoot him through the shoulders he will not go anywhere but you might have to shoot him again and you will loose some meat from the shoulders. Big gun or high grain only, too big a chance hitting a solid bone with the arrow.
If you get one lung.  He can go for a long way.

After you shoot him watch where he goes.  Wait fifteen minutes then go to where you last saw him.  The deer I have shot with a rifle or bow that were not through both lungs have laid down in close proximity to where they were shot.  VERY close proximity to where I last had a visual sighting.  Both times I went looking immediatelly and they got up and ran off a long way.  I almost lost one because it was a high lung shot and they do not bleed out much they just bleed into the cavity.  Let them bleed out and die in some sort of peace.

Quoted: .223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill. A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question... Legal..? yes. Moral and Ethical... hardly .243 should be your minimum choice for Deer. ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.

What he said...



 - georgestrings

25-06

If you must use a 223, use this bullet.

While we are on the subject, does anyone know if 7.5 Swiss was/is made in anything other than FMJ?

Hornady Makes a Round that is a Soft point. 165Gr. but its not cheap @ $20 a box.

Haven't tryed it myself.

OK..

I won't be using the AR for deer hunting again. The 75gr TAP went through both lungs. The deer went into a group of trees and stayed there. I waited about 2-3 minutes for it to come out, it didn't. I then found it standing there, and my dad let me borrow his .270 winchester. That dropped him right there.

I dont think the TAP round expanded at all, as the hole was pretty much the same on both sides. I don't know if it was the wrong barrel twist for the round, too short of a barrel or both. The shot was fine, the damage wasn't.

Quoted: ...snip... The 75gr TAP went through both lungs.

That's likely why you didn't get any expansion.  I shot a 170 pound buck with a Barnes 168 grain from my 300 mag at 50 yards this year.  The exit wound was no larger than the entrance, indicating that the bulled did not expand.  Lungs are hollow tissues, not like hearts and arteries.  A hollow tissue does not provide enough resistance to force the bullet to expand as expected.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't hunt, but what is wrong with good ol' 30-06? From a lever action. Spire points in a tubular magazine for one thing!

Check out new ammo from hornady "LeverEvolution".

Quoted: OK.. I won't be using the AR for deer hunting again. The 75gr TAP went through both lungs. The deer went into a group of trees and stayed there. I waited about 2-3 minutes for it to come out, it didn't. I then found it standing there, and my dad let me borrow his .270 winchester. That dropped him right there. I dont think the TAP round expanded at all, as the hole was pretty much the same on both sides. I don't know if it was the wrong barrel twist for the round, too short of a barrel or both. The shot was fine, the damage wasn't.

I've got news....  the TAP round is not designed or intended to expand.  It's wounding potential comes from it's increased fragmentation range.  There was not enough tissue in it's path to cause it to fragment most likely, or the range (velocity) was at the edges given the 14.5" barrel or both.  

That's why FMJ is not recommended by any manufacturer for hunting.

.308 or 338 lapua, one shot one kill, the deer won't get up, if it does, shot it again

Quoted: OK.. I won't be using the AR for deer hunting again. The 75gr TAP went through both lungs. The deer went into a group of trees and stayed there. I waited about 2-3 minutes for it to come out, it didn't. I then found it standing there, and my dad let me borrow his .270 winchester. That dropped him right there. I dont think the TAP round expanded at all, as the hole was pretty much the same on both sides. I don't know if it was the wrong barrel twist for the round, too short of a barrel or both. The shot was fine, the damage wasn't.

Well gee whiz, what a fucking surprise.............

Next time use a SOFT POINT expanding bullet.  THAT is what they are for.

Quoted: Quoted: ...snip... The 75gr TAP went through both lungs. That's likely why you didn't get any expansion.  I shot a 170 pound buck with a Barnes 168 grain from my 300 mag at 50 yards this year.  The exit wound was no larger than the entrance, indicating that the bulled did not expand.  Lungs are hollow tissues, not like hearts and arteries.  A hollow tissue does not provide enough resistance to force the bullet to expand as expected.

Let's see.  You shoot a scrawny deer with an ELK bullet (Barnes X), with a 300 Win Mag at 50 yards, then you wonder why it didn't expand?

How ignorant can someone be?

Quoted: .223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill. A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question... Legal..? yes. Moral and Ethical... hardly .243 should be your minimum choice for Deer. ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun.

+100000

243, 308, 30-06, 7MM Mag, etc.

Quoted: Quoted: .223, tho many on this board will argue is fine for deer and medium size game, is actually not... although legal in many states, it does not deliver enough energy to make an instant and humane kill. A serious and ethical hunter would not use a caliber that does not deliver an effective instant kill shot on the animal in question... Legal..? yes. Moral and Ethical... hardly .243 should be your minimum choice for Deer. ETA: any hunter has a moral responsibility to the animal to insure the animal is hit with proper shot location, with sufficient energy to kill quickly... While hunting with an AR make make you look "Uber Cool" and in your mind appear as a God... To a real hunter, you would just look like another idiot in the woods with a gun. +100000 243, 308, 30-06, 7MM Mag, etc.

6.5X55

Quoted: OK.. I won't be using the AR for deer hunting again. The 75gr TAP went through both lungs. The deer went into a group of trees and stayed there. I waited about 2-3 minutes for it to come out, it didn't. I then found it standing there, and my dad let me borrow his .270 winchester. That dropped him right there. I dont think the TAP round expanded at all, as the hole was pretty much the same on both sides. I don't know if it was the wrong barrel twist for the round, too short of a barrel or both. The shot was fine, the damage wasn't.

Little man with a little gun.

You were given some good advice here before you went. You chose to
ignore it and wounded the deer.

How long did it stand there before you were able get your daddy's gun and
killed it cleanly?  Your behavior deserves the contempt of every hunter.

Whatever makes you feel better.

Quoted: bump.. does no one hunt deer?

Sure we do, with deer rifles.

Another +1 for the Winchester 64gr PP. My son shot his first deer with that cartridge last month. The bullet penetrated through-and-through, appears to have mushroomed nicely based on the exit hole, AND shattered a bone on its way in. I don't know if I'd shoot a monster deer with it, but this was your typical small Texas whitetail.

I use a 7mm Rem Mag, and never had a deer run further than 30 yards. Then again, DPeacher and I were hunting and shot almost identical 160 pound bucks the same evening. Mine dropped on the spot, his ran about 50 yards. What caliber did he shoot it with? .416 RIGBY - and a perfect shot to boot!

You just can't ever tell, but I'm confident that the 64gr PP is perfectly acceptable for what you're planning to shoot.

One more comment regarding the comments about not using .223 to hunt deer: Sometimes it isn't feasible to use a different gun. My son is 8 years old, and the length of pull on any rifle I have is way too long. The M4 carbine with collapsible stock worked perfectly for him. I wasn't about to spend a bunch of $$$ for a rifle with a short stock that he would outgrow in a year or two.

Secondly, I agree that he shouldn't have used the 75gr TAP. The 64gr PP or Nosler  partition would have been fine choices.