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Posted: 12/15/2005 6:37:06 PM EDT
I went shooting today. Shot the Ar-15 just fine, hit the target at over 70 yards everytime. I love that gun. And for those keeping up, I gave it back. Anyway. I got to shoot a colt 45 pistol and a something or other 25 pistol. I liked the colt 45 much more than the 25. But when I'm holding it and aiming, my arms wander... I'm pretty sure I can sight down the gun fairly well, and I don't hold my breath when I squeeze not pull the trigger. Are there any other tips you pros can give me, besides practice? I know I need to practice. But the next time out, I'd like to be much improved. Is there a paticular handgun that is as easy to aim as the Ar? And I hate to add, but I'm really starting to lean towards the Colt namebrand. They seam very reliable and easy to use.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:37:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 6:38:08 PM EDT by gmtmaster]
Practice ... All I can tell you.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:38:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 6:40:56 PM EDT by Cavu]
The end with the opening is pointed away from you.

ETA: Sorry, couldn't resist. Seriously though, just work on hand-eye coordination and grip strength. Were your arms fatigued? How big are you? How much shooting experience do you have?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:38:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cavu:
The end with the opening is pointed away from you.




+1
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:38:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:
Practice ... All I can tell you.



+1

many many many many many many many rounds.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:38:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cavu:
The end with the opening is pointed away from you.



DUH
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:39:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cavu:
The end with the opening is pointed away from you.



Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:40:13 PM EDT
Seriously, Goobers. I was wondering if there was some TIP or something you could offer....
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:41:04 PM EDT
TAG
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:43:25 PM EDT
Keep your eyes open when you squeeze the trigger.

It helps.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:44:04 PM EDT
B-R-A-S-S

B- Breathe (take a breath)

R- Relax (let the breath out)

A- Aim (while letting the breath out)

S- Stop (as in, stop letting the breath out....you will feel your arms steady themselves for a
few seconds.....)

S- Squeeze (the trigger...a smooth motion straight back....buy a .45 snap cap and practice it
at night.....you can try putting a quarter on top of the muzzle to see if you're pulling
one way or the other. Rule of thumb, right handers tend to push to the left......)

....Works every time.......and yeah, practice helps......

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:44:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 6:45:22 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:45:03 PM EDT
Are you referring to tips on the AR or the handgun?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:45:45 PM EDT
Dont shoot yourself in the hand. I hear the .40 S&W Hydra-Shoks and .45 ACP Ranger-T's are especially painful.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:47:03 PM EDT
10 years of IPSC and the only advice I can give you is "trigger control" try very very hard to be able to get your trigger finger to work independently of the rest of your hand as there is not off hand on the forearm like a long gun to overpower any movement in the strong hand
I hope that makes sense
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:47:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By unclez:
Are you referring to tips on the AR or the handgun?



Thread title says handgun.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:47:09 PM EDT
Maybe I should define this a little better. I totally can't beleve a word my dad tells me. He's just trying to make himself look like the "man". I can't trust my soon to be ex, because he just doen't know jack. But I do recognize that I need to be able to defend myself. So I'd appreciate you all pointing out some tips for me.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:48:42 PM EDT
Must be for the handgun.

AS posted above... BRASS.
And focus on the front sight... not the target.
Squeeze...
Front sight....
Front sight....
Front sight....
Bam!

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:49:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:
Seriously, Goobers. I was wondering if there was some TIP or something you could offer....



Who, me a goober? That was rather nice. I expected much worse!

Read my edit to my first post, and as others have said, practice, practice, practice.

I find the number one trouble with most ladies is the strength of the strong hand and poor technique with the support hand. Carry a tennis ball or something similar with you and just keep squeezing that thing like it is my neck (for being a goober)! Then find someone you trust, or get a book on shooting, or look up someone with good references (There should be an Arfcommer somewhere close) that can show you proper technique.

Oh yeah, and practice, practice, practice. When I was shooting regularly, I would go through a thousand rounds in a month. And that is probably nothing compared to some others here.

Most important thing is to have fun.


Cavu
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:49:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
10 years of IPSC and the only advice I can give you is "trigger control" try very very hard to be able to get your trigger finger to work independently of the rest of your hand as there is not off hand on the forearm like a long gun to overpower any movement in the strong hand
I hope that makes sense



It actually does, thank you.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:50:25 PM EDT
Pistol Shooting is not rifle shooting.

They have a little in common with each other, but there are difference techniques.
Read up on it, or seek instruction.

Competitive pistol clubs often have there own Club coachs.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:51:11 PM EDT
Practice dry firing, watch what the front site does when you squeeze the trigger. If it moves to the right you have your finger too for on the trigger (pulling it). If it goes to the left then you need to put more finger on the trigger (pushing it)

Keep both eyes open as well. Keep shooting, it is the only way to get better.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:51:21 PM EDT
The only tip i can offer is center of mass.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:53:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 6:56:47 PM EDT by Yeehaa]
1. Practice holding a weight at shoulder height with your arms extended in front of you.

2. Shoot two handed, this should help keep the muzzle from wandering from side to side as much.

3. Do exercises that strengthen your wrists.

4. Take a full breath, let some out, hold it, squeeze the trigger. If it's taking too long, keep the trigger squeezed without applying any more pressure, take another breath, let some out, hold it, finish squeezing the trigger.

5. Lower the pistol between shots and breath regularly.

6. Avoid caffine before shooting.

7. A quality, well maintained pistol is easier to shoot accurately than a POS.

8. Get someone who knows what they're doing to watch you shoot and give you some feedback.

9. Practice dry firing.

Hope something here helps,

Yeehaa

edited for spelling
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:54:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cavu:

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:
Seriously, Goobers. I was wondering if there was some TIP or something you could offer....



Who, me a goober? That was rather nice. I expected much worse!

Read my edit to my first post, and as others have said, practice, practice, practice.

I find the number one trouble with most ladies is the strength of the strong hand and poor technique with the support hand. Carry a tennis ball or something similar with you and just keep squeezing that thing like it is my neck (for being a goober)! Then find someone you trust, or get a book on shooting, or look up someone with good references (There should be an Arfcommer somewhere close) that can show you proper technique.

Oh yeah, and practice, practice, practice. When I was shooting regularly, I would go through a thousand rounds in a month. And that is probably nothing compared to some others here.

Most important thing is to have fun.


Cavu



Not you neccesarily, but all the other non sensical responses I'll get. I felt today as if it was not my strong hand, but my support hand. I'm working push ups into my work out. I agree, I probably should seek out someone to show me proper technique. Not just, here shoot this. I'm serious about doing this well.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:55:16 PM EDT
1. Load ammo.
2. Aim.
3. Pull trigger.
4. Repeat as necessary.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:56:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Practice dry firing, watch what the front site does when you squeeze the trigger. If it moves to the right you have your finger too for on the trigger (pulling it). If it goes to the left then you need to put more finger on the trigger (pushing it)

Keep both eyes open as well. Keep shooting, it is the only way to get better.



This is where I have problems. I do keep both eyes open. I'm so focused on aiming, I don't always see where I hit. So I don't see where dry firing will help much. Well, it would keep me from jerking, I suppose. But isn't dry firing bad?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:59:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Practice dry firing, watch what the front site does when you squeeze the trigger. If it moves to the right you have your finger too for on the trigger (pulling it). If it goes to the left then you need to put more finger on the trigger (pushing it)

Keep both eyes open as well. Keep shooting, it is the only way to get better.



This is where I have problems. I do keep both eyes open. I'm so focused on aiming, I don't always see where I hit. So I don't see where dry firing will help much. Well, it would keep me from jerking, I suppose. But isn't dry firing bad?

On rimfires yes, not for centerfire handguns. Dry firing lets you practice a smooth trigger pull and lets you see how the gun moves when you pull the trigger. Competitive shooters dry fire 10,000 a year or more.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:00:35 PM EDT
You might be fixating on the sights. This is bad also. You want to look "thru" the sights to the target. Honestly, for anything 15 yards or closer all I look at is the front sight and then it is just momentarily.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:05:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Practice dry firing, watch what the front site does when you squeeze the trigger. If it moves to the right you have your finger too for on the trigger (pulling it). If it goes to the left then you need to put more finger on the trigger (pushing it)

Keep both eyes open as well. Keep shooting, it is the only way to get better.



This is where I have problems. I do keep both eyes open. I'm so focused on aiming, I don't always see where I hit. So I don't see where dry firing will help much. Well, it would keep me from jerking, I suppose. But isn't dry firing bad?

On rimfires yes, not for centerfire handguns. Dry firing lets you practice a smooth trigger pull and lets you see how the gun moves when you pull the trigger. Competitive shooters dry fire 10,000 a year or more.



I have this something or other .25. It's a totally different animal than the .45 though. I don't wander as much with it as I do with the .45. Is it ok, to dry fire? For practice? I can see where I need the weight of the ,45 to practice with.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:08:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Practice dry firing, watch what the front site does when you squeeze the trigger. If it moves to the right you have your finger too for on the trigger (pulling it). If it goes to the left then you need to put more finger on the trigger (pushing it)

Keep both eyes open as well. Keep shooting, it is the only way to get better.



This is where I have problems. I do keep both eyes open. I'm so focused on aiming, I don't always see where I hit. So I don't see where dry firing will help much. Well, it would keep me from jerking, I suppose. But isn't dry firing bad?

On rimfires yes, not for centerfire handguns. Dry firing lets you practice a smooth trigger pull and lets you see how the gun moves when you pull the trigger. Competitive shooters dry fire 10,000 a year or more.



I have this something or other .25. It's a totally different animal than the .45 though. I don't wander as much with it as I do with the .45. Is it ok, to dry fire? For practice? I can see where I need the weight of the ,45 to practice with.

Dry fire withthe .45 all you want, just make damn sure it is unloaded and pointed in a safe direction
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:12:02 PM EDT
Grip pressure! Best advice I ever received.
Trigger hand should only hold at 30%
Overhand squeezes trigger hand on the grip at 70%

Kinda hard to explain but it works.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:15:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cdhicks99:
Grip pressure! Best advice I ever received.
Trigger hand should only hold at 30%
Overhand squeezes trigger hand on the grip at 70%

Kinda hard to explain but it works.



No, it kinda makes sense. It's not my gun. But I hope to take it out again. Whatever it is next time, I'll keep all theses tips in mind.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:17:03 PM EDT
Don't miss.


Be the bullet.

Or the windshield. No, wait, it's the bug.

Ah, screw it.



Don't miss.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:19:20 PM EDT
This is my point. I don't want to miss. I've had a prowler the last few nights. Luckily, the dogs scared him off. But he came back. So I begged to get the .25. Long story. At what distance is a .25 effective?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:23:32 PM EDT
Don't try and control the recoil by anticipating it. Line up your sights on the target and focus on pulling the trigger smoothly, but just let the recoil surprise you. A handgun will have more of a recoil effect than an AR.

Many people try and anticipate the recoil and they end up shooting low due to it. You want to focus on the sights staying lined up on the target as you shoot, not on the recoil. Focus on that front sight.

Just let the gun's recoil surprise you and don't try and control it.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:29:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
Don't try and control the recoil by anticipating it. Line up your sights on the target and focus on pulling the trigger smoothly, but just let the recoil surprise you. A handgun will have more of a recoil effect than an AR.

Many people try and anticipate the recoil and they end up shooting low due to it. You want to focus on the sights staying lined up on the target as you shoot, not on the recoil. Focus on that front sight.

Just let the gun's recoil surprise you and don't try and control it.



That makes a great deal of sense. That's something I'll practice on.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:30:55 PM EDT
Focus on the front sight. Keep looking at it all the way through recoil.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:33:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:
At what distance is a .25 effective?


-7 ft......
seriously unload it if you have to shoot it!
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:34:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:
Practice ... All I can tell you.




Professional instruction.


Practice with no direction or correction of errors in technique is nothing more than ballistic masterbation.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:36:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:
This is my point. I don't want to miss. I've had a prowler the last few nights. Luckily, the dogs scared him off. But he came back. So I begged to get the .25. Long story. At what distance is a .25 effective?

Effectiveness is a subjective term. It could drop someone 30 yards away or it could take 6 rounds from 5 feet. A .25 shouldn't be considered a good selfdefense round. An AR in the home is the best way to go. A .38 revolver or a midsize 9mm with hot ammo would be second choices for a female.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:36:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 7:38:07 PM EDT by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
Don't try and control the recoil by anticipating it. Line up your sights on the target and focus on pulling the trigger smoothly, but just let the recoil surprise you. A handgun will have more of a recoil effect than an AR.

Many people try and anticipate the recoil and they end up shooting low due to it. You want to focus on the sights staying lined up on the target as you shoot, not on the recoil. Focus on that front sight.

Just let the gun's recoil surprise you and don't try and control it.



That makes a great deal of sense. That's something I'll practice on.




It is a good plan when you first start shooting handguns. Just let that sucker jump all it wants to.

After you get good at it, you can start to learn to control the recoil more and more so you can get better at fast follow up shots that require the recoil to be controlled more.

Just practice a lot, learn from others, get professional instruction if you can and above all--have fun with it!
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:42:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:
This is my point. I don't want to miss. I've had a prowler the last few nights. Luckily, the dogs scared him off. But he came back. So I begged to get the .25. Long story. At what distance is a .25 effective?

Effectiveness is a subjective term. It could drop someone 30 yards away or it could take 6 rounds from 5 feet. A .25 shouldn't be considered a good selfdefense round. An AR in the home is the best way to go. A .38 revolver or a midsize 9mm with hot ammo would be second choices for a female.



Is that what it is? I just have to be able to get them in the right spot to be effective? I'm not sure I can do that in the heat of the moment. At this moment in time, all I have is the .25. Maybe after Christmas I can change that. I don't want to be limited to a "girly" gun. I have no problem learning how to properly shoot a "manly" gun. I did fairly well with the .45. I had been told that the recoil would kill me, and it didn't. Same with a , 20 gauge. I just have to find the gun that fits me and practice with it. But in the meantime, I was looking for tips from ya'll pros.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:44:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:
Practice ... All I can tell you.




Professional instruction.


Practice with no direction or correction of errors in technique is nothing more than ballistic masterbation.



+1

Practice doesn't make perfect! Perfect practice makes perfect!

It also doesn't hurt to have a training plan.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:45:42 PM EDT
I don't have much to offer as far as "technique" but as far as psychological goes...

The saying "Aim small miss small" has great bearing on the mind and what it is capable
of doing as far as eye hand coordination goes.

When I play darts, I aim at the very center of the bullseye, because if I miss that very
hard and precise objective, I still might throw a bullseye.

When I play pool, I shoot for the very center of the pocket, because if I miss that objective
I very well may still sink the ball.

Plan the impossible shot in your mind and be rewarded with the results.

GM


Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:45:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:
This is my point. I don't want to miss. I've had a prowler the last few nights. Luckily, the dogs scared him off. But he came back. So I begged to get the .25. Long story. At what distance is a .25 effective?

Effectiveness is a subjective term. It could drop someone 30 yards away or it could take 6 rounds from 5 feet. A .25 shouldn't be considered a good selfdefense round. An AR in the home is the best way to go. A .38 revolver or a midsize 9mm with hot ammo would be second choices for a female.



Is that what it is? I just have to be able to get them in the right spot to be effective? I'm not sure I can do that in the heat of the moment. At this moment in time, all I have is the .25. Maybe after Christmas I can change that. I don't want to be limited to a "girly" gun. I have no problem learning how to properly shoot a "manly" gun. I did fairly well with the .45. I had been told that the recoil would kill me, and it didn't. Same with a , 20 gauge. I just have to find the gun that fits me and practice with it. But in the meantime, I was looking for tips from ya'll pros.



Just try a many types of handguns and rifles as you can and use the one you feel most comfortable with for home defense.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:48:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By txwxgirl:
This is my point. I don't want to miss. I've had a prowler the last few nights. Luckily, the dogs scared him off. But he came back. So I begged to get the .25. Long story. At what distance is a .25 effective?

Effectiveness is a subjective term. It could drop someone 30 yards away or it could take 6 rounds from 5 feet. A .25 shouldn't be considered a good selfdefense round. An AR in the home is the best way to go. A .38 revolver or a midsize 9mm with hot ammo would be second choices for a female.



Is that what it is? I just have to be able to get them in the right spot to be effective? I'm not sure I can do that in the heat of the moment. At this moment in time, all I have is the .25. Maybe after Christmas I can change that. I don't want to be limited to a "girly" gun. I have no problem learning how to properly shoot a "manly" gun. I did fairly well with the .45. I had been told that the recoil would kill me, and it didn't. Same with a , 20 gauge. I just have to find the gun that fits me and practice with it. But in the meantime, I was looking for tips from ya'll pros.

FYI I looked at the ballistics of a .25 auto. At the muzzle a .25 auto 45gr Hollow point will have 65 ft-lbs of energy. A 9mm 120gr hollow point will have around 320. A .45 depending on what load you use will have about 370 ft-lbs of energy. This should give you an idea of what kind of round a .25 is.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:53:50 PM EDT
Do you shoot Isosceles or Weaver? Get one of those stress balls and squeeze it during any and all of your spare time. Try using an isometric grip- trigger hand pushing / support hand pulling. Dry firing helps ALOT. I can almost guarentee you're dropping the muzzel as you anticipate the recoil going from a .25 to a .45. I know cause that was my cross to bear a few months ago. Going from a 9mm to a USP 45. Bench shoot at 25 yrds to make sure your sights are on then start at like 5 yrds. Practice at 5 yds until you blow the bull to pieces. Move back to 7 yrds, 10 yds, etc until you proficient at 25 yds. If you're more concerned about home protection then find out the longest distance of clear sight you have in your house and work your way up to that. Find a few people at your range who are somewhat knowledgable and ask them to watch you and critique your flaws. If none of that helps then seek professional assisstance.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:53:59 PM EDT
Along with the good advice on trigger control tie in FRONT SIGHT. When you are pressing the trigger straight to the rear envision a string attatched from your trigger finger to the front sight, as you press rearward that string is pulling the front sight closer to your eye. You should be able to see every little imperfection in the front sight. The target should be blurry.

Also push ups are ok but dry fire practice with you pistol is what you really need. If indoors clear your pistol, remove ALL ammuntion fron the room you are in Mags included. I usually set my vest in a corner and use that as a target "extra assurance" start with say 100 trigger presses and work up to 500 a day. You will be amazed at how much this improves your live fire accuracy. IM for more specific tips if you like.

out....
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:54:56 PM EDT


A friend gave me this advice and it helped.

Because its easy for arms to get tired from holding them up perpendicular to your body, some strength training may help. Just get a cheap 5 or 10 pound dumbbell and hold it like you would a gun. Do some sets and your be steadier as your target shooting goes on.

It helped me.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:58:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By goodmedicine:
I don't have much to offer as far as "technique" but as far as psychological goes...

The saying "Aim small miss small" has great bearing on the mind and what it is capable
of doing as far as eye hand coordination goes.

When I play darts, I aim at the very center of the bullseye, because if I miss that very
hard and precise objective, I still might throw a bullseye.

When I play pool, I shoot for the very center of the pocket, because if I miss that objective
I very well may still sink the ball.

Plan the impossible shot in your mind and be rewarded with the results.

GM

Ahh, this makes sense. I play darts and I do quite well. If I can get my shooting within the triple ring I'll be happy enough.



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