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Posted: 12/15/2005 11:06:23 AM EDT
Hollowed bullet easy to get & hard to survive
BY ALISON GENDAR and DAVE GOLDINER
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
Monday, December 12th, 2005

http://www.nydailynews.com/12-12-200...p-317961c.html

Hollow-point bullets like the one used in the slaying of Officer Daniel Enchautegui are much deadlier than ordinary bullets - and nearly as easy to get.

Cops favor using the hollow-point bullets because they are less likely to pass through a target and ricochet into a fellow cop or bystander.

But they want their public sale banned to keep them out of the hands of thugs like Enchautegui's alleged killers, Steven Armento and Lillo Brancato.

"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."

Armento allegedly shot Enchautegui with his father's .357-caliber handgun, loaded with the hollow-point bullets.

Anyone with a gun permit can buy the hollow-points in a gun shop. They also are readily available on the black market.

"Anybody can go out and buy them," said Michael Palladino, head of the Detectives' Endowment Association.

The main difference between hollow-point and regular, "full-metal jacket" bullets is that the hollow-points flatten on impact and expand inside a target.

The NYPD switched to the new ammo in 1999.

"They are less likely to penetrate the intended target and hit a bystander," said Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne.

An on-duty cop's bulletproof vest would likely provide the same protection from a hollow-point as a regular bullet.

With Robert F. Moore
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:07:13 AM EDT
"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."


Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:07:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 11:08:01 AM EDT by Specop_007]


"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



Fuck you!
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:10:20 AM EDT

Cops favor using the hollow-point bullets because they are less likely to pass through a target and ricochet into a fellow cop or bystander.

But they want their public sale banned to keep them out of the hands of thugs like Enchautegui's alleged killers, Steven Armento and Lillo Brancato.





So what the NYPD is saying is that they hope criminals can achieve shoot-throughs and compound the chances of wounding even more people?





Do these idjits even think this shit through, or do they just start parroting the Brady party line at every opportunity?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:11:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:


"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



Fuck you!



A BIG +1
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:13:00 AM EDT
I never knew that there was a blackmarket for hollowpoints
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:13:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:


"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



Fuck you!



A BIG +1



+2
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:14:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:


"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



Fuck you!



A BIG +1



Actually "stop violent felons" is not in their mission statement. Therefore they don't need hollow points, or any other guns for that matter.


The men and women of the Detective Bureau combat crime by conducting prompt and diligent investigations. Detectives maximize the use of all available technological resources and traditional investigative methods to solve crimes, track down and apprehend suspects, accomplices and fugitives, as well as to locate missing persons and recover stolen property.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:14:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Cops favor using the hollow-point bullets because they are less likely to pass through a target and ricochet into a fellow cop or bystander.

But they want their public sale banned to keep them out of the hands of thugs like Enchautegui's alleged killers, Steven Armento and Lillo Brancato.





So what the NYPD is saying is that they hope criminals can achieve shoot-throughs and compound the chances of wounding even more people?





Do these idjits even think this shit through, or do they just start parroting the Brady party line at every opportunity?



That is exactly what I thought when I read those two paragraphs. What hypocrisy and/or stupidity!


"They are less likely to penetrate the intended target and hit a bystander," said Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne.


Well duh, wouldn't that apply to a legally armed person shooting a bad guy as well????????

Maybe they want the legally armed non-cops to have that happen so they can point to why non-cops don't need to be armed.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:16:01 AM EDT

readily available on the black market



Huh?


So are digital cameras.....






Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:16:24 AM EDT
I wonder if I can I get good bulk .223 on this ammo black market.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:16:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CAR_16:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:


"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



Fuck you!



A BIG +1



+2



+3
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:17:37 AM EDT
Hey! Come on now - banning hollowpoints was critical in turning New Jersey into a crime-free utopia.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By CAR_16:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:


"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



Fuck you!



A BIG +1



+2



+3

+4
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:19:43 AM EDT
Maybe I'm blind but I don't see where the NYPD wants to ban hollowpoints. Just the usual BS from the various police associations or unions. The police associations/unions and anyone who gives a dime to support them are a major enemy to all of us concerned about gun control. If they had their way they would be the only ones armed
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:20:02 AM EDT
You guys should get out now before they build a wall and prevent you from leaving.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:21:35 AM EDT
That's too funny!

A classic example of the Liberal mentality! Contradiction and Hypocricy!

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:21:58 AM EDT
Someone needs to get some sense knocked into their dumb head.

The NYCPD would have to be full of idiots to want to pass this through.



wait...
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:24:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Hey! Come on now - banning hollow points was critical in turning New Jersey into a crime-free utopia.



Actually hollow points are not illegal in NJ.
You can possess them in your home and the range and you can travel to and from a legal point such as a store or the range.
You just can't have them in your pocket or car riding around with them.
We all know how dangerous and deadly those hollow points are all by themselves LOL
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:24:47 AM EDT

"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."

Then why are you trying to take ammo away from me, I'm not a violent (or otherwise) felon?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:26:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
You guys should get out now before they build a wall and prevent you from leaving.


Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:29:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Cops favor using the hollow-point bullets because they are less likely to pass through a target and ricochet into a fellow cop or bystander.

...

The NYPD switched to the new ammo in 1999.

"They are less likely to penetrate the intended target and hit a bystander," said Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne.

An on-duty cop's bulletproof vest would likely provide the same protection from a hollow-point as a regular bullet.




So, regardless of the fact that civilians cannot own handguns in NYC, they want them to use Ball ammo only which, by their own admission is less safe?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:29:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."

Then why are you trying to take ammo away from me, I'm not a violent (or otherwise) felon?




Because the want to DISARM you! They are taking it one step at a time
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:33:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."

Then why are you trying to take ammo away from me, I'm not a violent (or otherwise) felon?



You obviously don't understand.

Anyone they say is a violent felon until proved otherwise. They see their mission as stopping (dead in their tracks - literally) any and all violent felons. To do this they need hollowpoints -- presumably teflon coated ones.

You, you potential violent felon you, have no need of such a thing. Your only duty is to not resist police bullets should they choose to send any such in your direction.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:33:34 AM EDT

Hollow-point bullets . . . are much deadlier than ordinary bullets - and nearly as easy to get.

WTF This is far as I got. Hollow Points ARE regular bullets.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:33:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 11:35:18 AM EDT by callgood]

Originally Posted By Lakeguy:
I never knew that there was a blackmarket for hollowpoints




SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH­HHHHHHH. If you promise not to tell anybody where you heard this, one of my sources is www.midwayusa.com. Very hush-hush. I have others, but I'm not going to divulge them at this time.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:34:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
So, regardless of the fact that civilians cannot own handguns in NYC, they want them to use Ball ammo only which, by their own admission is less safe?


Exactly! If civilians can't have sidearms why would it matter what ammo they buy?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:35:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



This man wants to leave you defenseless against those who would rob, rape and kill you and your entire family so that they people who have voluntarily selected a career fighting against evil in our society are immune from danger.

Benevolent Association indeed!

GFYIH!



If you cannot accecpt the risks, then don't put on the badge! If you put on the badge, then you are accecpting certain risks and I WILL NOT sacrifice my safety or my rights to make it easier for you. I am sorry if that seems harsh, but it is what it is.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:36:18 AM EDT
Now I remember why I hate NYC!
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:37:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Hey! Come on now - banning hollowpoints was critical in turning New Jersey into a crime-free utopia.



HP rounds are banned in NJ?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:37:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
You guys should get out now before they WE build a wall and prevent you from leaving polluting the rest of the country.



All better now.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:41:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
So, regardless of the fact that civilians cannot own handguns in NYC, they want them to use Ball ammo only which, by their own admission is less safe?




There's grade-A logic right there.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:43:09 AM EDT
The story is a big fat lie. No cop was shot in NYC. That's not possible. Handguns are illegal in NYC. They (handguns) are only available to people who can be trusted - the police. Thus this story is a lie.

Gun control works! No need to ban the bullets since criminals obey the law and don't have guns.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:46:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Progunvoter:
The story is a big fat lie. No cop was shot in NYC. That's not possible. Handguns are illegal in NYC. They (handguns) are only available to people who can be trusted - the police. Thus this story is a lie.

Gun control works! No need to ban the bullets since criminals obey the law and don't have guns.



Thank you. Being from California, I can attest to how effective all of these laws are. I really wish the media would stop planting these untrue stories.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:47:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Hey! Come on now - banning hollowpoints was critical in turning New Jersey into a crime-free utopia.


HP rounds are banned in NJ?


Under N.J.S. 2C:39-f., possession of hollow nose ammunition is prohibited unless a person is engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S. subsection g.2, a person may keep this ammunition 'at his dwelling, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him' and may carry such from place of purchase to the above locations. Law enforcement and military personnel are also exempt."
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:52:51 AM EDT
I brought a friend to a night/low light IDPA match a couple of years ago. He happens to be pretty high up in the NYPD (and continues to climb). Coming to the event he was a little apprehensive about shooting a match with civilians.

His observations were as follows:

1. The guys at the match handled firearms with a HIGH DEGREE OF SAFETY
2. The guys at the match possessed a HIGH DEGREE OF ACCURACY
3. He fired towards the BOTTOM of the scoring and was a bit shy about being bested by CIVILIANS
4. He felt SAFER around the match shooters than he had ever felt on a range.

The car ride home was interesting as he reflected that many of the anti-gun sentiments that flow through New York are unfounded and downright against the grain of common sense. He found the guys at the match to be the friendliest and most courteous group of people he had ever encountered. So much so, his apprehensions dissolved soon after we arrived at the range. He was most impressed that while no one knew who he was or what he did, everyone treated him as an equal and a friend.

Liberalism brings us the hatred that fuels gun control and now ammunition control. As long as liberalism is allowed to exist as a default authority on any subject, that subject will be riddled with bigotry towards the right to self-defense.

Liberalism promotes crime by preventing self-reliance and ultimately self-defense. We need to make it our purpose in life to make it socially uncomfortable for anti-gun people to so much as rear their mugs. They are free to have their own ideas, but we need to continue making it uncomfortable for them to transition their ideals into public policy.

If one child is saved by preventing liberal ideals from shaping public policy then our mission has been accomplished....

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:54:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."







Do these people actually listen to the words spewing from thier crapholes?


WTF!!


Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:56:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Progunvoter:
Handguns are illegal in NYC. They (handguns) are only available to people who can be trusted - the police.


Where do you get your information?
Stop confusing NYC with DC.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:00:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:00:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By CAR_16:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:


"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



Fuck you!



A BIG +1



+2



+3



+4 and a big FUCK YOU NYC
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:01:37 PM EDT

"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."




Hey Patrick Lynch, you pretentious fucking asshole.... GO FUCK YOURSELF WITH A CHAINSAW.


Holy shit what a colossal dick head.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:02:45 PM EDT
Well, looks like they want bad guys (and cops) to get drilled with something in an M855, or perhaps a nice .30 cal rifle bullet. Why should I support the police again?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:08:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SFR:

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By CAR_16:

Originally Posted By Bubblehead597:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:


"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."



Fuck you!



A BIG +1



+2



+3



+4 and a big FUCK YOU NYC



+5 FUCK YOU NYC
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:27:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Cops favor using the hollow-point bullets because they are less likely to pass through a target and ricochet into a fellow cop or bystander.

...

The NYPD switched to the new ammo in 1999.

"They are less likely to penetrate the intended target and hit a bystander," said Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne.

An on-duty cop's bulletproof vest would likely provide the same protection from a hollow-point as a regular bullet.




So, regardless of the fact that civilians cannot own handguns in NYC, they want them to use Ball ammo only which, by their own admission is less safe?



Civilians can own guns in NYC, cops have them and they are civilians. For that matter, non-cops can have them also, well, maybe, if you jump through the right hoops.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:30:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Cops favor using the hollow-point bullets because they are less likely to pass through a target and ricochet into a fellow cop or bystander.

...

The NYPD switched to the new ammo in 1999.

"They are less likely to penetrate the intended target and hit a bystander," said Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne.

An on-duty cop's bulletproof vest would likely provide the same protection from a hollow-point as a regular bullet.




So, regardless of the fact that civilians cannot own handguns in NYC, they want them to use Ball ammo only which, by their own admission is less safe?



Civilians can own guns in NYC, cops have them and they are civilians. For that matter, non-cops can have them also, well, maybe, if you jump through the right hoops.



lay down,sit ..... sit boy..... good NYC resident.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:30:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 12:32:09 PM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By JS1050:
I brought a friend to a night/low light IDPA match a couple of years ago. He happens to be pretty high up in the NYPD (and continues to climb). Coming to the event he was a little apprehensive about shooting a match with civilians.



Why would he be apprehensive about shooting a match with OTHER CIVILIANS besides himself? He IS a civilian.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:34:52 PM EDT
"...let's start with typewriters."
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:01:01 PM EDT
Can you get "Dum-Dum" bullets in .40 ACP?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:13:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:20:54 PM EDT



An on-duty cop's bulletproof vest would likely provide the same protection from a hollow-point as a regular bullet.



No shit! What a bunch of horse shit.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:23:29 PM EDT
Bottom left corner and top right corner of this country are fucked up. Its like a giant gun control gobstopper. It is on the outside for now just kinda eating away, but soon enough it will get to the core and the entire gun ownership of this nation will be eaten.


This stupid analogy brought to you by the "HOFNYCAC", aka "Haters Of New York City And California", free of cost, all day every day.
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