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Posted: 12/15/2005 10:47:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 11:01:51 AM EDT by Federalist14]
There is a major conflict going on here now regarding Unions, good or bad.

I know everyone hates the what ifs, but what would you do if your state, Union friendly or not became a right to work state and your Union had no power whatsoever?

Unions

Fed14
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:51:21 AM EDT
I live in Idaho (right to work) and for just about as long as I can remember there have been groups trying to repeal right to work. It hasn't worked yet, and I think we're better off for it.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:59:27 AM EDT
I live in FL. The closest thing to a Union around here that affects me is AARP.


Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:34:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 12:37:57 PM EDT by TravisM1]
How does "Right to Work" differ from the way it is now?
Not being sarcastic, but seriously. I have no idea what it means.

EDIT- Im a union member also. Please relate the differences.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:45:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
How does "Right to Work" differ from the way it is now?
Not being sarcastic, but seriously. I have no idea what it means.

EDIT- Im a union member also. Please relate the differences.


+1 but not a union member
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:48:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
How does "Right to Work" differ from the way it is now?
Not being sarcastic, but seriously. I have no idea what it means.

EDIT- Im a union member also. Please relate the differences.



http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/a/right_to_work.htm
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:28:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 1:30:45 PM EDT by Federalist14]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By TravisM1:
How does "Right to Work" differ from the way it is now?
Not being sarcastic, but seriously. I have no idea what it means.

EDIT- Im a union member also. Please relate the differences.



jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/a/right_to_work.htm
made it hot, thanks for the link.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:30:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Federalist14:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
How does "Right to Work" differ from the way it is now?
Not being sarcastic, but seriously. I have no idea what it means.

EDIT- Im a union member also. Please relate the differences.



jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/a/right_to_work.htm]jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/a/right_to_work.htm[/url/



made it hot :) Thanks for the link.



no you didnt
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:31:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nacrotek:

Originally Posted By Federalist14:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By TravisM1:
How does "Right to Work" differ from the way it is now?
Not being sarcastic, but seriously. I have no idea what it means.

EDIT- Im a union member also. Please relate the differences.



jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/a/right_to_work.htm]jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/a/right_to_work.htm[/url/



made it hot :) Thanks for the link.



no you didnt hr


did now, sorry
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:34:43 PM EDT
While we're on this topic, I am in NYS, and nothing requires me to join my union. So I don't know where the thread starter thinks that people are required to join unions here in NYS.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:46:30 PM EDT
At my old job our installers had a hell of a time working in New York City. We had one guy and he would install a store display, wire it up for electricity, and paint. The Union guy came in, stopped him, made us get four different crews. One to move it from the street to the location, one to install it. one to wire it, and another to paint it. Unions have done nothing but get in my way and the way of other people making progress. Philadelphia just built a huge convention center but no one uses it because the unions make such a big stink about everything. Moving a table. Need a union guy. running a power cord, need a union guy, but not the one that moved the table. It goes on and on. Now the convention center is hardly used.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:57:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By amk5222:
At my old job our installers had a hell of a time working in New York City. We had one guy and he would install a store display, wire it up for electricity, and paint. The Union guy came in, stopped him, made us get four different crews. One to move it from the street to the location, one to install it. one to wire it, and another to paint it. Unions have done nothing but get in my way and the way of other people making progress. Philadelphia just built a huge convention center but no one uses it because the unions make such a big stink about everything. Moving a table. Need a union guy. running a power cord, need a union guy, but not the one that moved the table. It goes on and on. Now the convention center is hardly used.



Company i used to work for had its HQ in NYC. Same fucking story.

Need a network cable run from one side of the office to another? Any of our IT people could do it in an hour. Nahhh... can't have that, can we.

By the time you'd schedule it with the building mangement, get all the Union people lined up and *their* schedules worked out it would be about 2 weeks and a metric assload of $$$ later.

I really regretted leaving the company after 9 years but it was that or relocate to NYC. You would have probably read about me in the papers aftet I killed some dumbfuck for putting me through what's told above.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:26:55 PM EDT
Thanks for the link.

So, another question. "Right to Work" simply implies that legally, you can not be forced to join a union to hold or keep a job?

As it stands, PA is an "At-Will" Employment state. Meaning that either you or the company can break the employment "contract" at any time, pretty much for whatever reason. Although it isnt labeled as such, the hospital my Wife works at appears to be "Right to Work". Employees are given the choice to join the Union, but not required. The Union is required to represent all employees, member or not.

I think Unions still have their place. I work as an Electrician in a textile factory. Wet, Humid, nasty, dirty. I'm not in the production areas unless something breaks down, and I need to fix it. By far, the production areas are the worst work environment I have ever seen. The management would pay every production worker in the mill minimum wage if it werent for the Union. Maintenance people such as myself would make more, but thats because in a place that runs 24/7, you need maintenance personel. I could fuck their day up royally if they pulled that shit with me, and they wouldnt know who did it. So maintenance people are at least a little protected by their own skills and abilities, but I damn sure wouldnt make what I do if it werent for the Union. Given the choice between a Union job and a Non-Union job, paying the same money, I'd take the Non-Union job.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:38:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 4:38:32 PM EDT by jrzy]

Originally Posted By amk5222:
At my old job our installers had a hell of a time working in New York City. We had one guy and he would install a store display, wire it up for electricity, and paint. The Union guy came in, stopped him, made us get four different crews. One to move it from the street to the location, one to install it. one to wire it, and another to paint it. Unions have done nothing but get in my way and the way of other people making progress. Philadelphia just built a huge convention center but no one uses it because the unions make such a big stink about everything. Moving a table. Need a union guy. running a power cord, need a union guy, but not the one that moved the table. It goes on and on. Now the convention center is hardly used.



BULLSHIT!

https://secure.paconvention.com/iebms/coe/coe_p1_all.aspx?mode=DATE&cc=CALEVTS&oc=10
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:05:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
While we're on this topic, I am in NYS, and nothing requires me to join my union. So I don't know where the thread starter thinks that people are required to join unions here in NYS.



Where in this thread do I say that you "HAVE" to join a union. The whole premise here is what if the power was removed from the unions. I know you don't have to join a union but if you don't, there is hell to pay. At least in the city there is. Try and work anywhere in the city as an electician or a dock worker without a book.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:08:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Federalist14:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
While we're on this topic, I am in NYS, and nothing requires me to join my union. So I don't know where the thread starter thinks that people are required to join unions here in NYS.



Where in this thread do I say that you "HAVE" to join a union. The whole premise here is what if the power was removed from the unions. I know you don't have to join a union but if you don't, there is hell to pay. At least in the city there is. Try and work anywhere in the city as an electician or a dock worker without a book.


The thread title gave the impression that NYS was not a right to work state. You don't need to be in a union here. The big issues locally are are the construction jobs going to local people and are they paying whats being called a living wage. Not whether the workers are unionized.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:19:28 AM EDT
Granted, however, The term "Right To Work" is a little off. What it should say is "Right to Fire Without Reason" In Fla which is a Right To Work state, if you want to work, you work under the best conditions you can negotiate at the time. A contract is only as valuable as the word of your employer. If something happens to make it no longer convenient for you to be employed under such a contract, you will be relieved of your duty. If someone else is available to do said job for less money, they will be there on Monday.

There is only a few Unions here in Florida becuase there is no Gov't backing. UPS, NEA come to think of it are the only ones that I know of. Are they trying to get here? I doubt it.

The so called living wage here is less than you would find in the north east but then again I can buy a 2000 square foot house here for under $200000. and live quite well. The same house in the North East would carry a Million dollar price tag, if I wanted the same living conditions.

The only reason I started this thread was to point out that, Yes, The unions had there place. But I think they are a thing of the past. They are a big business of there own at this point in time and have to watch out for their bottom dollar.

Did they do an honorable service to our Country? I don't know. There are too many sides to that story.

Did they do damage to our Country, Yes.

Can we recover? Yes.

Just my 2 Cents.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:24:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Federalist14:
The so called living wage here is less than you would find in the north east but then again I can buy a 2000 square foot house here for under $200000. and live quite well. The same house in the North East would carry a Million dollar price tag, if I wanted the same living conditions.


Make sure you qualify that with a "Northeast urban area". Get away from major urban centers even in the NE and you don't find prices anything like that. I've only seen a couple of houses in my area come anywhere close to a milllion.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:46:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Federalist14:
The so called living wage here is less than you would find in the north east but then again I can buy a 2000 square foot house here for under $200000. and live quite well. The same house in the North East would carry a Million dollar price tag, if I wanted the same living conditions.


Make sure you qualify that with a "Northeast urban area". Get away from major urban centers even in the NE and you don't find prices anything like that. I've only seen a couple of houses in my area come anywhere close to a milllion.



you are correct, that is what the "and live in the same living conditions" was for, but I see that this could be misrepresented.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:41:33 AM EDT
tagged for more detailed reading.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:48:32 AM EDT
It won't matter what they do to NJ, it still sucks; always has, and always will.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:58:53 AM EDT
While this article covers Nevada, there is a good summary of how right-to-work came about and what it means versus a state that doesn't have a right-to-work law.

article

Right to work basically means you don't have to buy into the union even if they represent employees at your company. Unfortuantely/good thing you will still be represented by the union even though you are not a dues paying member.

PA, NJ, NY, IL, CA, MA, OH, and MI are highly unionized states with labor unions that would fight to the death if right-to-work were ever proposed.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:04:38 AM EDT
NC is a right to work state, but the democraps control the state house ,senate and the goveners mansion .......
why are we a right to work state ?
we have the higest taxes in the southeast and most state employees qualify for wic and food stamps.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:13:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By COLT113:
NC is a right to work state, but the democraps control the state house ,senate and the goveners mansion .......
why are we a right to work state ?
we have the higest taxes in the southeast and most state employees qualify for wic and food stamps.



You just reminded me of the largest union groups in most of the US: Government Employees.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:14:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 8:17:46 AM EDT by darwindog]
Nevermind, wrong definition.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:46:31 AM EDT
When there are no jobs, it won't matter.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:51:40 PM EDT
Fuck the unions.

They served their purpose back in the day, but now they need to go the way of the dinosaur.

B_S
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:26:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Federalist14:
Granted, however, The term "Right To Work" is a little off. What it should say is "Right to Fire Without Reason" In Fla which is a Right To Work state, if you want to work, you work under the best conditions you can negotiate at the time. A contract is only as valuable as the word of your employer. If something happens to make it no longer convenient for you to be employed under such a contract, you will be relieved of your duty. If someone else is available to do said job for less money, they will be there on Monday.



You have the wrong definition of Right To Work. As most people, you confuse it with Employment At Will. From the link posted elsewhere:


What Right to Work Means
The U.S. right to work legal principle is sometimes confused with that of employment at will or it simply doesn't mean what some think it does. For example, it doesn't mean that all U.S. citizens are entitled to work if they wish. While that's generally true, it's not what right to work means in legalese.

In legalese, right to work more specifically means that otherwise-qualified employees are entitled to work at unionized workplaces, without joining the associated unions or paying regular union dues. But right to work (nonunion) employees might have to pay unions for the portion of dues spent representing them, such as pursuing grievances on their behalf.

Right to work employees who are part of a "bargaining unit" have the right to union representation, that is equal to those in the same bargaining unit who've joined the union.

A bargaining unit is a group of employees who have similar work duties, share a workplace, and presumably have similar interests when it comes to pay, hours and other working conditions.

In other words, under the right to work principle, workers don't have to join unions or pay regular union dues to land or keep jobs. They may also cancel union membership at any time, without losing their jobs. But they are still entitled to fair and equal union representation while working in bargaining units of unionized workplaces. However, they might have to pay unions for the cost of such representation.

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