Quoted: quote It is another sad day in the custom vehicle industry. January 1 st  of 2005 is a milestone for the insurance industry.

Hey thanks for the heads up pal.

Quoted: is it true that our modified vehicle are no longer legally coverd by our insurance policies?

I don't know if they won't insure them at all, it might be for full coverage.

You can get liability only for $1,000/month if you like, which would be the same as not insuring them.

I used to work databases for an insurance company, it is all one fund (crop insurance, home, car, etc.), and they (database guys) look for "spikes" in the data that takes more out of the fund than the others, spread over a timeframe (6-24 months).  

The reason for this is for co-insurance (think of an insurance company buying insurance for itself), to show an even income/payout they are insuring against.  To make it "even" for coinsurance, you need to either raise the premiums on the spikes (DUIs, fast cars, sport cars, whatever is costing), or drop the customer (DUIs mainly).  Without only a minor deviation between premiums/payout over xx months, the co-insurance company will raise THEIR premiums to insure your insurance company, making ALL the premiums go up (which nobody but the co-insurance company wants).  Insurance is a HUGE industry, and is run by only a few major players (the co-insurance guys, who also sell standard insurance at very reduced rates for low-risk people), spreading out to the major companies you "see" (State Farm, Progressive, AllState), down to the agency.  Each level needs to police itself, or get dropped by its "parent".   Insurance is an ugly, ugly, cutthroat world.

Hope this makes sense...

Quoted: so what you'er saying is that it is the co-insurance co that is able to refuse to take the hit but that the primary insurnance co is still responsible to cover the claims on modded vehicles?

The co-insurance company only pays the insurance company if they can't cover a large number of claims in a short time (Katrina/NOLA for example).  The co-insurance companies are Huge and basically "invisible", basically data-mining companies, risk calculation, etc.  (my experience, had to learn all of this crap to work there).  The co-insurance company never pays directly to the insured (car or homeowner), but to the insurance company holding the policy.

If the standard insurance company cannot show that it has enough in its fund to cover AVERAGE yearly payouts, they either need to get their premiums and policies in order, or pay a TON more for co-insurance ("hypthetically" talking $100,000/month here, vs $60,000/month [not real world, you would be afraid to see the actual numbers]).   The only reason I mention co-insurance is they are actually "The Guys" that determine insurance rates nationwide.

Many insurance companies have the same "parent" company, and they show up in advertisements as "competitors", as far as those companies know, they are, but 2 levels up, the same Insurance co owns both of them.  This is to seperate the "claim pool" and "risk eval" to manageable levels when mixing in multi-level risk insurance buyers, even though it is the same pool at the bank and stock market, the little companies only see their "virtual chunk" of it.  The co-insurance guys sit on the sidelines of all of this and cover the insurance companies when a massive unforseen expense takes place.  They base their rates on how flexible the insurance company is in self-absorbing their own small to medium "hits" (large lawsuits, hail damage to crops, floods, etc, it is ALL one fund, much of it "stored" in low-risk investments).   Floods are what can knock a smaller "big"company out, as in the midwest, they would get hit on A) Home Insurance B) Totalled Cars from water damage C) Flooded crops  D) Life.  When that happens, they can't pull all of their money out of the low risk investments quickly, so the co-insurance company writes them a check and they pay the claims with that, in addition to any liquidable funds they have in their "pool".

For Clarification, I am posting this talking about the Big Picture, not from the tree/forest level, but more from the Tree Bark vs. Satellite Image level.   As you go down the "levels" in the insurance company, when you get to the split between home/auto/car/life, each one of those "sections" needs to prove solvency for premiums vs. claims.   I will snip this down to auto insurance only in my last paragraph:

Now that car insurance is required in all states,  that has helped  increase their "pool", but they keep track of EVERY facet of the insured, age, car type, modifications, even if the car has tape or CD, alarm, etc.   If it is in the top 100 stolen list, premium for full coverage goes up, period.  If you are under 25, premiums go up.  If you have modifications to it, premiums go up.   If you do not tell the insurance company you have modifications, they will cancel your policy upon a claim, letting you eat the entire balance (look at the fine print).  The previous sentence is what this entire thread is about!  So if you are under 25, have 1 DUI, and a Tricked out EVO (which you probably let friends "Try Out the power"...),  you are essentially an insurance nightmare, pegging at 80%-100% chance of totalled in an accident (pay for your car and medical/repairs on the guy that was hit) or stolen within a year.  Since states require ins. to be provided to everybody, they have to sell it to you, so if you are getting full coverage, you will probably have premiums that are close or greater than your car payments.  

for a standard policy yes that is true.

my uncle finished his old roadster last year and had a hell of a time getting it insured.

he was told the problem comes from improperly modified suspensions that may fail or adversly affect vehicle handling resulting in a higher probability of a crash/injury. That along witht he higher repair costs of a "custom" or one up vehicle. He was able to get it insured but as i recall he said it required a seperate policy for custom addons like wheels and stuff, and much higher premium.

You can ensure a 40 year old Mustang for $30 a month or you can ensure the primo mint-shape 1964.5 with supercharge and a a $5000 paint job multi-award winning show car for $300 a month ... you'll get what you paid for (after the required fighting).

Quoted: Quoted: Now that car insurance is required in all states,  that has helped  increase their "pool", but they keep track of EVERY facet of the insured, age, car type, modifications, even if the car has tape or CD, alarm, etc.   If it is in the top 100 stolen list, premium for full coverage goes up, period.  If you are under 25, premiums go up.  If you have modifications to it, premiums go up.   If you do not tell the insurance company you have modifications, they will cancel your policy upon a claim, letting you eat the entire balance (look at the fine print).  The previous sentence is what this entire thread is about!  So if you are under 25, have 1 DUI, and a Tricked out EVO (which you probably let friends "Try Out the power"...),  you are essentially an insurance nightmare, pegging at 80%-100% chance of totalled in an accident (pay for your car and medical/repairs on the guy that was hit) or stolen within a year.  Since states require ins. to be provided to everybody, they have to sell it to you, so if you are getting full coverage, you will probably have premiums that are close or greater than your car payments.   Red highlight is not true,  I talked to my rep and they are still obligated to cover everything but the mods. They will cover the mods provided you have photographic evidence and/or reciepts as well as an appraisal. You will pay aslightly higher premium due to teh increased value of the vehicle but  that is all...

The agent doesn't write the check, the parent company does.  If it is stolen, you would only get the base value of the vehicle if you had full coverage (If that, depending on company).  If in a high speed accident, and it could be shown that without the modifications to the car the accident may have been avoided, the insurance company will either cancel/not pay (you would need to sue them to prove your policy covered your car in the condition it was in at the time of the accident), partial pay, or pay the other person in the accident and your minimum, then drop you.  

Look at the modifications like "base car type".  If you say you are driving a Yugo, but are actually driving a Corolla (I know, that would never fly due to VIN#/etc), the policy would be void since they were not taking premiums for the vehicle you were driving.

Quoted: I asked the agent this specific q and they said that if it increased the value of the vehicle it could be covered. They specifically said that performance mods were not considered in determining a higher risk resulting in higher premiums or rejection of  coverage

Which insurance co?

Are you looking for liability or full coverage?

The performance mods will come into play if the vehicle ends up in an injury accident.  The lawyers will see to that.   If it doesn't get that far and they are only looking to fix a dent, it would pass.  The insurance policy fine print has a ton of disclaimers, which is why they are thick and printed in a 6pt font.  

Quoted: I am looking to do some basic performance mods to my '71 Cutlass such as alum heads, roller cam, gears and posi with rear disc's, tubular A arms and control arms ect.  My State Farm agent stated specifically that it would not prohibit them from covering the car.  Now if I were to get into an accident and the lawyers get involved its anyones guess what will happen but they did say that simply installing the mods was not grounds for denying coverage..

Those mods aren't much.

It is when you put a 350 into a Vega, add a blower + Blueprinted engine build, etc. etc.  Things that make it "wicked fun".   They don't like people to have fun (because they gotta pay for it when it goes wrong, I guess)   I despise the insurance company methods, especially when asked to find a reason to raise premiums.  Makes you hate your job after a while.