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Posted: 12/14/2005 6:13:22 PM EDT
I'm interested to know just how many of you think this is a great idea.

Just so we'll know who you voted for in '08.

Poll to follow.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:13:52 PM EDT
IBTP!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:13:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:18:50 PM EDT by operatorerror]
IBTfriggin'P

ETA that of course I voted no BUT I also believe that compassionate conservatism includes helping those who are in need. Medical care is a definite need.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:13:57 PM EDT
socialism doesnt work
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:15:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
socialism doesnt work



+Eleventy Billion
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:15:25 PM EDT
If it's donated time and equiment by doctors and hospitals and costs me nothing? I don't have a problem with it. If it takes money away from me and mine, then fuck no. You'll stop bleeding eventually.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:17:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:17:41 PM EDT
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:18:02 PM EDT
It's coming, like it or not. It may be just heavy regulation and not be fully socialized, and I don't know how soon, but you can be sure that it's coming.

The more people in small to medium sized business that pay $500 a month with the employer kicking in another $500, while state employees pay about $90 and constantly bitch, the more votes there are for candidates who claim to be able to alleviate this pain.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:18:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
If it's donated time and equiment by doctors and hospitals and costs me nothing? I don't have a problem with it. If it takes money away from me and mine, then fuck no. You'll stop bleeding eventually.


I agree with the above statement
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:18:47 PM EDT
I think we should ban the entire health insurance industry and set up a single payer government controlled program.

Health care is a right!

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:20:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
You have left yourself open to a lot of interpretation. Are you saying "Without insurance", or does insurance fall in the "personal responsibility" group?
I know I couldn't pay for any healthcare all by my lonesome. I don't have $1000 just laying around.



Insurance is a free market solution to high health-care costs. Still personal responsibility. You're voluntarily pooling your money with others in investment to pay for that healthcare.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:21:46 PM EDT
Everyone wants great healthcare and no one wants to pay for it. I think it is pretty clear that when wealthy people who live in countries that have socialized healthcare become seriously ill they come to the US. I have heard the figure thrown around that in the mid 90s there were only 2 MRI machines in all of Toronto! It is obvious that a socialized healthcare system results in an inferior level of care. Now, I would be in favor of universal healthcare for young children.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:23:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:23:17 PM EDT by Bubbatheredneck]

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
It's coming, like it or not. It may be just heavy regulation and not be fully socialized, and I don't know how soon, but you can be sure that it's coming.



Coming? It's here.


Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Now, I would be in favor of universal healthcare for young children.



Okay, where do we send the bill?

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:23:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Everyone wants great healthcare and no one wants to pay for it. I think it is pretty clear that when wealthy people who live in countries that have socialized healthcare become seriously ill they come to the US. I have heard the figure thrown around that in the mid 90s there were only 2 MRI machines in all of Toronto! It is obvious that a socialized healthcare system results in an inferior level of care. Now, I would be in favor of universal healthcare for young children.




Better inferior care than no care. Could you say "Get a job" to the dying cancer infected 8 year old illegal immigrant girl if she were asking for your help in person?

Tax the rich more, they'll still be better off than everyone else.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:24:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Insurance is a free market solution to high health-care costs....



The current health insurance cartel is anything BUT a true free market.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:24:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Everyone wants great healthcare and no one wants to pay for it. I think it is pretty clear that when wealthy people who live in countries that have socialized healthcare become seriously ill they come to the US. I have heard the figure thrown around that in the mid 90s there were only 2 MRI machines in all of Toronto! It is obvious that a socialized healthcare system results in an inferior level of care. Now, I would be in favor of universal healthcare for young children.



Careful though. Now you're placing parental responsibility on the government. Would the government then tell you what to feed your kids?

Or how about what sports they may play? Too dangerous a sport and you might risk losing that Federal cheese.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:25:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!



How about letting charitable organizations (the ones that get voluntary dontations--United Way, Church groups, that kind of thing) handle the charity stuff, rather than .Gov sticking it's grubby paw where it doesn't belong.

Health insurance is a voluntary thing--you willingly pay (an exorbitant sum, granted) for it, knowing that you may use disproptionate ammounts of coverage--you may never get sick, or your liver might fall out of your ass.

Why not channel all the "Migrant Rescue" groups towards helping, oh, I dunno, American citizens?

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:25:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Insurance is a free market solution to high health-care costs....



The current health insurance cartel is anything BUT a true free market.




I didn't say it was a GOOD solution.

Still better than socialized healthcare.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:25:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Insurance is a free market solution to high health-care costs....



The current health insurance cartel is anything BUT a true free market.




Yeah, too much government regulation.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:26:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:27:08 PM EDT
How do you determine who can and can not afford it?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:27:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Everyone wants great healthcare and no one wants to pay for it. I think it is pretty clear that when wealthy people who live in countries that have socialized healthcare become seriously ill they come to the US. I have heard the figure thrown around that in the mid 90s there were only 2 MRI machines in all of Toronto! It is obvious that a socialized healthcare system results in an inferior level of care. Now, I would be in favor of universal healthcare for young children.




Better inferior care than no care. Could you say "Get a job" to the dying cancer infected 8 year old illegal immigrant girl if she were asking for your help in person?

Tax the rich more, they'll still be better off than everyone else.





Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:27:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Everyone wants great healthcare and no one wants to pay for it. I think it is pretty clear that when wealthy people who live in countries that have socialized healthcare become seriously ill they come to the US. I have heard the figure thrown around that in the mid 90s there were only 2 MRI machines in all of Toronto! It is obvious that a socialized healthcare system results in an inferior level of care. Now, I would be in favor of universal healthcare for young children.




Better inferior care than no care. Could you say "Get a job" to the dying cancer infected 8 year old illegal immigrant girl if she were asking for your help in person?

Tax the rich more, they'll still be better off than everyone else.



Mexico has free universal healthcare. I wonder why she isn't getting her treatment down there?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:28:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:29:43 PM EDT
I'm not paying for someone elses healthcare, I already pay enough for other crap.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:30:52 PM EDT
They already get it at emergency rooms. A hospital cannot urn away any person if they need treatment for any reason.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:31:46 PM EDT
There wouldn't be nearly as bad of a problem if doctors were allowed to give cash discounts. Since the wealthy that have insurance pay less for health care, it makes the disparity even worse. As an example an employee of mine had the same procedure with the same doctor as my boss's wife. The employee didn't have insurance and had to pay the entire amount of the bill. My boss's wife had Blue Cross, and the hospital gave her insurance company a 60% discount. Don't give the poor free healthcare. Just even the playing field so the poor pay the same price as the rich.z
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:33:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Everyone wants great healthcare and no one wants to pay for it. I think it is pretty clear that when wealthy people who live in countries that have socialized healthcare become seriously ill they come to the US. I have heard the figure thrown around that in the mid 90s there were only 2 MRI machines in all of Toronto! It is obvious that a socialized healthcare system results in an inferior level of care. Now, I would be in favor of universal healthcare for young children.




Better inferior care than no care. Could you say "Get a job" to the dying cancer infected 8 year old illegal immigrant girl if she were asking for your help in person?

Tax the rich more, they'll still be better off than everyone else.



Medical research is hugely expensive - hence drug prices that seem outrageous. If the private sector won't pay for it, medical advances won't happen. Inferior care is better than no care in the long run. The US is a leader in the field of medicine, if we socialize up the population as a whole will be negatively affected. Also, please read my entire post, I do believe in paying for children's medical expenses.

Another post asked where the money to fund children's medical costs should come from. Well I’ll tell ya it would be a tiny tiny fraction of what the War on Drugs, or the War on Terror costs. I am not advocating additional taxation, but rather a smarter way of spending the revenue the gov already makes. Without getting into the legitimacy of the current administrations policies I think most can agree that if you squeeze just a tiny bit here and there would be enough to insure every uninsured child in the US.

In summary, medical research & advancement = good = expensive.

The net benefit to society of socializing healthcare is actually a loss!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:33:11 PM EDT


Those that usually scream the loudest for "free" healthcare are generally the cheapest personally. Their personal charitable contributions are miniscule and they rarely offer their time doing any dirty work. Charity black tie gala, no problem, but actually cutting up potatoes for soup in a homeless shelter? No way.

It is easy to be generous with someone else's money or talents.

Al Gore gives $353 to charity
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:33:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!



How about letting charitable organizations (the ones that get voluntary dontations--United Way, Church groups, that kind of thing) handle the charity stuff, rather than .Gov sticking it's grubby paw where it doesn't belong.

Health insurance is a voluntary thing--you willingly pay (an exorbitant sum, granted) for it, knowing that you may use disproptionate ammounts of coverage--you may never get sick, or your liver might fall out of your ass.

Why not channel all the "Migrant Rescue" groups towards helping, oh, I dunno, American citizens?




Who said anything about Migrants or aliens ?
As for charity paying for those who can't, nope. They could never collect enough to pay a quarter of what it would cost.
You get sick, an accident, born with a defect, crime victim.... can't pay ?? to hell with you !! CASH IS KING !!!

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:37:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By alaman:
They already get it at emergency rooms. A hospital cannot urn away any person if they need treatment for any reason.



And I beleive that system is intrinsically wrong.

Can't afford to pay? Fine. You get treatment, but you MUST pay for your healthcare eventually. Even if its only in small installments for the rest of your life.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:40:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:42:44 PM EDT by Ardenner]

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Everyone wants great healthcare and no one wants to pay for it. I think it is pretty clear that when wealthy people who live in countries that have socialized healthcare become seriously ill they come to the US. I have heard the figure thrown around that in the mid 90s there were only 2 MRI machines in all of Toronto! It is obvious that a socialized healthcare system results in an inferior level of care. Now, I would be in favor of universal healthcare for young children.



Careful though. Now you're placing parental responsibility on the government. Would the government then tell you what to feed your kids?




I realize this, and it is a slippery slope. I just can't bare the thought of children suffering when they live in a country where the resources exist to save them. I've seen some pretty horrible examples of deformities, cancers, and syndromes that can affect children. I think it would be nice if all kids in the is country could grow up without having to worry about that sort of thing, no child deserves that. Now once a person is an adult they can get a job they can get health insurance. I've been working since I was 15, at 16 I had access to healthcare benefits if i wanted them, I declined bc my parent's plans were much more cost effective.

I don't know, this view is probably too liberal, but I'm the guy who hands out $10 bills to disabled homeless. (I don’t give money to able bodied seemingly mentally sound hobos though). I do believe in personal responsibility, but at the same time I hate to see people suffer even if they are the only one to blame. If nothing else, at the end of the day I can say to myself, "that guy will get a hot meal tonight (or booze )."

ETA- I would prefer not to have the government support non-youth social programs, private charity can do that if they so wish.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:41:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:42:08 PM EDT by Bubbatheredneck]

Originally Posted By zoom:
There wouldn't be nearly as bad of a problem if doctors were allowed to give cash discounts. Since the wealthy that have insurance pay less for health care, it makes the disparity even worse. As an example an employee of mine had the same procedure with the same doctor as my boss's wife. The employee didn't have insurance and had to pay the entire amount of the bill. My boss's wife had Blue Cross, and the hospital gave her insurance company a 60% discount. Don't give the poor free healthcare. Just even the playing field so the poor pay the same price as the rich.z



Go buy a heathcare discount card at Costco for 30 bucks a month. You'll get "wholesale" pricing too.

And the employee without insurance hasn't been paying premiums out the nose to get the "discount"?

I paid out about $1000 for health coverage last month and didn't go to the doc, hospital or drug store. Or the month before. Some people NEVER have paid into the system, yet expect the same rock bottom prices everyone else gets.

You want to stop runaway healthcare? Do away with the 10,20 or even 50 copay. It cheapens the service. Make the MINIMUM deductible $3-5000 per person over 2 or 3 years. People would be looking to cut their own costs. As it is now, folks feel like getting the end of the year $1000 MRI scan after they have met their $300 deductible as "getting back" at the insurance company.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:43:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:

You want to stop runaway healthcare? Do away with ...



Medicare.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:44:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!



How about letting charitable organizations (the ones that get voluntary dontations--United Way, Church groups, that kind of thing) handle the charity stuff, rather than .Gov sticking it's grubby paw where it doesn't belong.

Health insurance is a voluntary thing--you willingly pay (an exorbitant sum, granted) for it, knowing that you may use disproptionate ammounts of coverage--you may never get sick, or your liver might fall out of your ass.

Why not channel all the "Migrant Rescue" groups towards helping, oh, I dunno, American citizens?




Who said anything about Migrants or aliens ?
As for charity paying for those who can't, nope. They could never collect enough to pay a quarter of what it would cost.
You get sick, an accident, born with a defect, crime victim.... can't pay ?? to hell with you !! CASH IS KING !!!




Interesting you say that. When I was 18 I started having problems. Slurred speech, drooping eyelids, loss of strength in my limbs, you know, scary shit. I, being not a student, was uninsured. So I got off my half paralyzed ass and got a job. I gutted out the year of temp time, and another 2 years full time* so that my insurance was in full effect. Did I sign up for state care? No. Fucking. Way.

Should I have? Actually yes, I have myasthenia gravis and could have had my resiratory system stop at any time. I've been there. I got a job. I got insurance. I did NOT soak up public funds.


*actually, one of those years was because I didn't want to hear the "You have a brain tumor" speech from the MD. You want to talk scared? Try not being able to make your tongue work well enough to swallow water, and not being able to keep your eyelids open for more than 3 or 4 minutes at a time.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:47:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
socialism Communism doesnt work


Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:49:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!



How about letting charitable organizations (the ones that get voluntary dontations--United Way, Church groups, that kind of thing) handle the charity stuff, rather than .Gov sticking it's grubby paw where it doesn't belong.

Health insurance is a voluntary thing--you willingly pay (an exorbitant sum, granted) for it, knowing that you may use disproptionate ammounts of coverage--you may never get sick, or your liver might fall out of your ass.

Why not channel all the "Migrant Rescue" groups towards helping, oh, I dunno, American citizens?




Who said anything about Migrants or aliens ?
As for charity paying for those who can't, nope. They could never collect enough to pay a quarter of what it would cost.
You get sick, an accident, born with a defect, crime victim.... can't pay ?? to hell with you !! CASH IS KING !!!




Interesting you say that. When I was 18 I started having problems. Slurred speech, drooping eyelids, loss of strength in my limbs, you know, scary shit. I, being not a student, was uninsured. So I got off my half paralyzed ass and got a job. I gutted out the year of temp time, and another 2 years full time* so that my insurance was in full effect. Did I sign up for state care? No. Fucking. Way.

Should I have? Actually yes, I have myasthenia gravis and could have had my resiratory system stop at any time. I've been there. I got a job. I got insurance. I did NOT soak up public funds.


*actually, one of those years was because I didn't want to hear the "You have a brain tumor" speech from the MD. You want to talk scared? Try not being able to make your tongue work well enough to swallow water, and not being able to keep your eyelids open for more than 3 or 4 minutes at a time.



So you got a job and allowed your employer to subsidize your healthcare ?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:50:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!



How about letting charitable organizations (the ones that get voluntary dontations--United Way, Church groups, that kind of thing) handle the charity stuff, rather than .Gov sticking it's grubby paw where it doesn't belong.

Health insurance is a voluntary thing--you willingly pay (an exorbitant sum, granted) for it, knowing that you may use disproptionate ammounts of coverage--you may never get sick, or your liver might fall out of your ass.

Why not channel all the "Migrant Rescue" groups towards helping, oh, I dunno, American citizens?




Who said anything about Migrants or aliens ?
As for charity paying for those who can't, nope. They could never collect enough to pay a quarter of what it would cost.
You get sick, an accident, born with a defect, crime victim.... can't pay ?? to hell with you !! CASH IS KING !!!




Interesting you say that. When I was 18 I started having problems. Slurred speech, drooping eyelids, loss of strength in my limbs, you know, scary shit. I, being not a student, was uninsured. So I got off my half paralyzed ass and got a job. I gutted out the year of temp time, and another 2 years full time* so that my insurance was in full effect. Did I sign up for state care? No. Fucking. Way.

Should I have? Actually yes, I have myasthenia gravis and could have had my resiratory system stop at any time. I've been there. I got a job. I got insurance. I did NOT soak up public funds.


*actually, one of those years was because I didn't want to hear the "You have a brain tumor" speech from the MD. You want to talk scared? Try not being able to make your tongue work well enough to swallow water, and not being able to keep your eyelids open for more than 3 or 4 minutes at a time.



If everyone was as strong as you we would live in a perfect world. I'm sorry you had to go through that, but that is one of the most inspirational things I've heard in a while.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:51:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!



How about letting charitable organizations (the ones that get voluntary dontations--United Way, Church groups, that kind of thing) handle the charity stuff, rather than .Gov sticking it's grubby paw where it doesn't belong.

Health insurance is a voluntary thing--you willingly pay (an exorbitant sum, granted) for it, knowing that you may use disproptionate ammounts of coverage--you may never get sick, or your liver might fall out of your ass.

Why not channel all the "Migrant Rescue" groups towards helping, oh, I dunno, American citizens?




Who said anything about Migrants or aliens ?
As for charity paying for those who can't, nope. They could never collect enough to pay a quarter of what it would cost.
You get sick, an accident, born with a defect, crime victim.... can't pay ?? to hell with you !! CASH IS KING !!!




Interesting you say that. When I was 18 I started having problems. Slurred speech, drooping eyelids, loss of strength in my limbs, you know, scary shit. I, being not a student, was uninsured. So I got off my half paralyzed ass and got a job. I gutted out the year of temp time, and another 2 years full time* so that my insurance was in full effect. Did I sign up for state care? No. Fucking. Way.

Should I have? Actually yes, I have myasthenia gravis and could have had my resiratory system stop at any time. I've been there. I got a job. I got insurance. I did NOT soak up public funds.


*actually, one of those years was because I didn't want to hear the "You have a brain tumor" speech from the MD. You want to talk scared? Try not being able to make your tongue work well enough to swallow water, and not being able to keep your eyelids open for more than 3 or 4 minutes at a time.



So you got a job and allowed your employer to subsidize your healthcare ?



It's part of my compensation package actually. And trust me, it costs me plenty. But it's voluntary--not mandated.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:51:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!



How about letting charitable organizations (the ones that get voluntary dontations--United Way, Church groups, that kind of thing) handle the charity stuff, rather than .Gov sticking it's grubby paw where it doesn't belong.

Health insurance is a voluntary thing--you willingly pay (an exorbitant sum, granted) for it, knowing that you may use disproptionate ammounts of coverage--you may never get sick, or your liver might fall out of your ass.

Why not channel all the "Migrant Rescue" groups towards helping, oh, I dunno, American citizens?




Who said anything about Migrants or aliens ?
As for charity paying for those who can't, nope. They could never collect enough to pay a quarter of what it would cost.
You get sick, an accident, born with a defect, crime victim.... can't pay ?? to hell with you !! CASH IS KING !!!




Interesting you say that. When I was 18 I started having problems. Slurred speech, drooping eyelids, loss of strength in my limbs, you know, scary shit. I, being not a student, was uninsured. So I got off my half paralyzed ass and got a job. I gutted out the year of temp time, and another 2 years full time* so that my insurance was in full effect. Did I sign up for state care? No. Fucking. Way.

Should I have? Actually yes, I have myasthenia gravis and could have had my resiratory system stop at any time. I've been there. I got a job. I got insurance. I did NOT soak up public funds.


*actually, one of those years was because I didn't want to hear the "You have a brain tumor" speech from the MD. You want to talk scared? Try not being able to make your tongue work well enough to swallow water, and not being able to keep your eyelids open for more than 3 or 4 minutes at a time.



So you got a job and allowed your employer to subsidize your healthcare ?



(I think there is a point at which, even if you disagree with someone, you should use a bit of tact)
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:51:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
I think we should ban the entire health insurance industry and set up a single payer government controlled program.

Health care is a right!




France is that way ----------->
Have fun Pierre
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:52:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:56:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
If everyone was as strong as you we would live in a perfect world. I'm sorry you had to go through that, but that is one of the most inspirational things I've heard in a while.



Dunno about that. In retrospect, it was probably fear that kept me from the doctor--of course that same fear made me gut it out. *shrug*

Hehehe--it'll probably kill be before the cigarettes get me!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:56:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I soak up a lot of tax dollars every week when I go to the VA Hospital. Thanks everyone.



You served, you earned it. Every week? Hemorroids?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:56:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I soak up a lot of tax dollars every week when I go to the VA Hospital. Thanks everyone.



Yah, but you EARNED IT.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:56:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Nope, let EVERYONE who can't afford to pay suffer and die.
Cash is king !!! Bow down !!



How about letting charitable organizations (the ones that get voluntary dontations--United Way, Church groups, that kind of thing) handle the charity stuff, rather than .Gov sticking it's grubby paw where it doesn't belong.

Health insurance is a voluntary thing--you willingly pay (an exorbitant sum, granted) for it, knowing that you may use disproptionate ammounts of coverage--you may never get sick, or your liver might fall out of your ass.

Why not channel all the "Migrant Rescue" groups towards helping, oh, I dunno, American citizens?




Who said anything about Migrants or aliens ?
As for charity paying for those who can't, nope. They could never collect enough to pay a quarter of what it would cost.
You get sick, an accident, born with a defect, crime victim.... can't pay ?? to hell with you !! CASH IS KING !!!




Interesting you say that. When I was 18 I started having problems. Slurred speech, drooping eyelids, loss of strength in my limbs, you know, scary shit. I, being not a student, was uninsured. So I got off my half paralyzed ass and got a job. I gutted out the year of temp time, and another 2 years full time* so that my insurance was in full effect. Did I sign up for state care? No. Fucking. Way.

Should I have? Actually yes, I have myasthenia gravis and could have had my resiratory system stop at any time. I've been there. I got a job. I got insurance. I did NOT soak up public funds.


*actually, one of those years was because I didn't want to hear the "You have a brain tumor" speech from the MD. You want to talk scared? Try not being able to make your tongue work well enough to swallow water, and not being able to keep your eyelids open for more than 3 or 4 minutes at a time.



So you got a job and allowed your employer to subsidize your healthcare ?



(I think there is a point at which, even if you disagree with someone, you should use a bit of tact)



I'm being sarcastic, hence the CASH IS KING reference.
I don't like paying for anyone elses health care but there has to be middle ground where if you NEED medical care you should be able to get it without ruining you financially.
Some here actually think that if you can't afford medical care, fuck em, let em die.
I don't have the answer but I know that the extremes at both ends won't work.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:57:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
IBTfriggin'P

ETA that of course I voted no BUT I also believe that compassionate conservatism includes helping those who are in need. Medical care is a definite need.



+1, I have NO problem with folks getting help who need it. Folks who need it should get it. Folks who abuse it are either put into forced labor or deported and stripped of their citizenship and sent to a socialist craphole of our choice.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:59:27 PM EDT
A few changes have to be made;

Health insurance should have a deductable like car insurance. You should have to pay the first $5000 for your care then anything after that is covered by your insurance. This would cut down on the cost of health care and make it more affordable. Also, insurance companies have to stop dictating patient care, by seeking the cheapest route.

The rest have to do with scumbag lawyers. A cap of $250,000 should be the max for law suits and who ever lost the case should pay for all legal fees.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:00:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

I'm being sarcastic, hence the CASH IS KING reference.
I don't like paying for anyone elses health care but there has to be middle ground where if you NEED medical care you should be able to get it without ruining you financially.
Some here actually think that if you can't afford medical care, fuck em, let em die.
I don't have the answer but I know that the extremes at both ends won't work.




And that NEED group could be better helped by donations--hell, pull the care from the junkies that go to the ER for a fix and I'd be happy. It's never going to go to the "take care of yourself" end of the spectrum. It MIGHT go to the "come on, pony up. Juan is coming from Venezuela through the desert and he needs a new liver" end of the spectrum.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:03:11 PM EDT
I have mixed feelings on the issue. I dont think theres a truly right answer.
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