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Posted: 12/14/2005 10:08:26 AM EDT
I have shot FAL's and they kinda fall in the category of AK's in my book, simple and reliable. Are they really not as reliable as AK's in the sand?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:12:37 AM EDT
I agree and will tag for dissenting opinions.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:22:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
I have shot FAL's and they kinda fall in the category of AK's in my book, simple and reliable. Are they really not as reliable as AK's in the sand?



the L1A1 is a lot better than a metric b/c it has sand cuts on the bolt. the Isrealis claimed they had problems with them during the 6 day war and that's why they came up with the Galil. having said that the Brits resurected the L1A1 to use in GW1 when the SA-80 proved too fragile in the desert.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:23:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 10:23:58 AM EDT by junebug68]
I don't know about how a FAL performs in a desert environment, but mine has never gagged on anything I fed it yet. I'm sure the Israelis put their FALs through MUCH harder use than I ever will with mine.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:24:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
I have shot FAL's and they kinda fall in the category of AK's in my book, simple and reliable. Are they really not as reliable as AK's in the sand?



the L1A1 is a lot better than a metric b/c it has sand cuts on the bolt. the Isrealis claimed they had problems with them during the 6 day war and that's why they came up with the Galil. having said that the Brits resurected the L1A1 to use in GW1 when the SA-80 proved too fragile in the desert.



These cuts?

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:24:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:31:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 10:58:25 PM EDT by MuRDoC]
after seeing "Old Dirty" completly gunked with crap and still shoot, I don't care what anyone says you can't stop one. I'll find the pics of Old Dirty and post it
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:32:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:33:23 AM EDT
This has been hashed out ceaselessly in the FALFiles....the Israelis, like many conscript armies, had (has?) pretty low levels of weapons maintenance. The FALs failed because they were filthy, filthy, filthy.
They were also too long and heavy for the combined arms army the Israelis developed.

More sensitive to dirt than an AK? Yes. But not a desert dog. Hell, if the Israelis can use M-16's in the desert reliably, I have trouble believing that the FAL faired worse than the M-16 in identical conditions.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:34:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I thought they ended up making some modifications to their fals, cutting grooves in the bolts or something like that?



if you look at the pic of the one above your post and look at teh ejection port you'll see the carrier, it has cross cuts in it, those are the sand cuts.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:41:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TimJ:
This has been hashed out ceaselessly in the FALFiles....the Israelis, like many conscript armies, had (has?) pretty low levels of weapons maintenance. The FALs failed because they were filthy, filthy, filthy.
They were also too long and heavy for the combined arms army the Israelis developed.

More sensitive to dirt than an AK? Yes. But not a desert dog. Hell, if the Israelis can use M-16's in the desert reliably, I have trouble believing that the FAL faired worse than the M-16 in identical conditions.




+1
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:53:24 AM EDT
Ok, L1A1 owner here, so I ain't trashin the FAL. Why did the SAS use G-3's in Southern Arabia, if they had access to sandcut bolt carriers?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:56:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 10:57:03 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
On this note. Has anyone tried sand cuts on an M-16 bolt carrier?

I thinking there are a lot of flat smooth surfaces on the M16/AR carrier. The FA cuts and ejection port curve do not count for much.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:13:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
On this note. Has anyone tried sand cuts on an M-16 bolt carrier?

I thinking there are a lot of flat smooth surfaces on the M16/AR carrier. The FA cuts and ejection port curve do not count for much.



But you only have the rails on the bolt carrier actually contacting the upper, not the whole circumfrence of the carrier.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:58:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By notso:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
On this note. Has anyone tried sand cuts on an M-16 bolt carrier?

I thinking there are a lot of flat smooth surfaces on the M16/AR carrier. The FA cuts and ejection port curve do not count for much.



But you only have the rails on the bolt carrier actually contacting the upper, not the whole circumfrence of the carrier.



Ah. Good point.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:04:33 PM EDT

Here's Old Dirty. This is what an FAL looks like after 4000 rounds and no cleaning. He reports that it does not malfunction.

Read about "Old Dirty" Here: Link



Then he throws it in a pond for a bath.....




5000 Rounds.......He just keeps dumping oil in it.




Now here it is at 9400 rounds...

"Here are a few pictures of Ol' Dirty at 9400 rounds. Piston spring is still broken but it function 100% of the time. I will get to 10,000 rounds soon but don't know when. My work has been interfering with my shooting for about the past year otherwise I would be way over 10 g's by now."






Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:18:09 PM EDT
That is soo cool, yet soo wrong.


Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
Here's Old Dirty. This is what an FAL looks like after 4000 rounds and no cleaning. He reports that it does not malfunction.

Read about "Old Dirty" Here: Link

www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=567641

Then he throws it in a pond for a bath.....

www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=588016


5000 Rounds.......He just keeps dumping oil in it.

www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=769255


Now here it is at 9400 rounds...

"Here are a few pictures of Ol' Dirty at 9400 rounds. Piston spring is still broken but it function 100% of the time. I will get to 10,000 rounds soon but don't know when. My work has been interfering with my shooting for about the past year otherwise I would be way over 10 g's by now."


www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1306418

www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1306420


Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:20:07 PM EDT
No fair!!! That is a form of cleaning!!

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:21:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:
That is soo cool, yet soo wrong.



LOL +1

I don't have any of my guns enough to do that to it!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:25:26 PM EDT
Sand will jam any weapon… AR, AK, FAL, ect…

I have seen a AKM type locked so solid by sand the bolt had to be kicked open with a foot on the charging handle.

The sand cuts on a FAL don’t change it much one way or another.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:38:49 PM EDT
The Israelis also added a Forward Assist which helped out greatly.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:21:38 PM EDT
I thought I read somewhere that Iran used G3s or something because they found even AKs aren't the best for the desert and that the fluted chamber made them more reliable in the sand. Fortunately I will never know because I don't live in the desert so here in Georgia I doubt anything will choke my FAL.
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