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Posted: 12/13/2005 8:48:56 AM EDT
NYPD Officer Clandestinely Shoots Teen In NW Washington
Story by nbc4.com



D.C. police are trying to find out why a New York City policeman waited until he got home to report he shot a teenager in Northwest Friday night.

Police said they received a 911 call for the sound of gunshots about 9 p.m. from the 1600 block of Nicholson Street, a neighborhood just south of 16th Street and Military Road.

Investigators said patrol officers spotted a stolen car and inside that car was three teenagers and sources said four silver-colored replica pistols. The guns looked real but were unable to fire bullets.

Then minutes later, around the corner in a Cul De Sac on Manchester Place, officers found a 16-year-old who had been shot in the arm.

Detectives said they received a phone call Sunday morning that appeared to connect the two incidents.

"We subsequently learned on Sunday morning that a New York Police Department officer was involved in the incident and had discharged his weapon in the District of Columbia," said D.C. police Lt. Michelle Milam.

Investigators believe the New York City officer, who had been visiting friends in the neighborhood, may have been the victim of a holdup.

"The case is currently still under investigation so some aspects of the investigation we're unable to talk about at this time," Milam said. "But we are exploring the fact that robbery may have been involved at some point in the incident.

Police said after they finish their investigation the information will go to the U.S. Attorney's office where federal prosecutors will decide whether or not charges will be filed against the New York officer.

Officials said the officer also faces an internal affairs investigation with his own department.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:52:07 AM EDT
I can't say I blame the guy for fleeing the situation, but being a cop he should have known that not reporting it would be worse on him in the long run
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:52:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:


D.C. police are trying to find out why a New York City policeman waited until he got home to report he shot a teenager in Northwest Friday night.





DUh. So he can fight extradition
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:54:01 AM EDT
What about the dog?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:55:58 AM EDT
Looks like it happened on Friday night and then was reported on Sunday morning. Not the next morning, more like 36 hours later.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:58:05 AM EDT
Maybe he thought it was like deer hunting and you're supposed to give them some time to bleed out?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:59:12 AM EDT
Gosh, I wonder if he'll be placed on payed administrative leave?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:24:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Gosh, I wonder if he'll be placed on payed administrative leave?



Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working?

Even the D.C. cops admit this looks like a robbery attempt. Robbery is so common in DC that maybe the cop thought he didnt hit the punk so there was no point in filing a report?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:29:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working?





MY JOB doesn't give me the legal right to carry a concealed weapon in Washington DC.



HIS JOB does.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:38:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working?





MY JOB doesn't give me the legal right to carry a concealed weapon in Washington DC.



HIS JOB does.



If you want to further the divide between cops and the taxpayers they police, then treating cops differently off the clock is the best way to do it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:42:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 9:43:41 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
I would think standard fare would be paid administrative leave during the investigation, just like any other police shooting.


Would my job give me this? No, but I'd probably not be asked to stay home anyway



Innocent until proven guilty, that justifies the paid leave.



However, NOT reporting a shooting is pretty suspect, and should be a major issue
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:42:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working?





MY JOB doesn't give me the legal right to carry a concealed weapon in Washington DC.



HIS JOB does.



If you want to further the divide between cops and the taxpayers they police, then treating cops differently off the clock is the best way to do it.


Fine. If we are going to treat everyone equally, then toss his sorry ass in jail right this moment. You can bet that is where I would be if I went down to D.C. and shot someone. I can't believe you are defending this irresponsible officer. He's the kind that gives good officers a bad name.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:47:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 9:48:27 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working?



MY JOB doesn't give me the legal right to carry a concealed weapon in Washington DC.

HIS JOB does.


this guy is old school and probably forgot he's allowed to carry at all times even in dc. didn't always used to be that way, even for cops! you could carry while on duty but you couldn't carry off duty. and the mpd took this seriously! he probably figgered "go home and hide behind the nypd badge and let the higher-highers hash it out." from what i heard, this guy is a senior capt with the transit police.

ETA: the bad thing is, this guy watched the mpd milling about outside his house and lied to them when they knocked on his door and questioned him...
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:48:58 AM EDT
Perhaps the officer had been drinking?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:50:54 AM EDT
4 armed BGs. Whether I managed to get off a few shots or not, I'd haul ass and count myself lucky, too. The delay in reporting is a bit dicey, though.

+1 on the obscene elitism of the law, though. I guess that the life of an off-duty cop outside his jurisdiction is more valuable than mine, since he's allowed the means to defend his life in DC and I'm not - and despite the fact that he's dumb enough to be hanging out in DC.

Hmmm. Crappy, crime-ridden city. Crappy, crime-ridden neighborhood within said city. 36 hour delay in reporting. I wonder if John Law was invoking the 100 mile rule to indulge in some private conduct, evidence of which would dissipate in 36 to 48 hours.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:51:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BillSouthCarolina:

Perhaps the officer had been drinking?





.......and it's too late to test for that now.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:56:38 AM EDT
So does the NY cop have a CCW in his home state??

If not, he is fucked.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:58:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

this guy is old school and probably forgot he's allowed to carry at all times even in dc. d





So you are saying he carried, thinking it was illegal to carry? Nice.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:02:52 AM EDT
Not to cop bash, but if that were ordinary Joe Citizen, he'd be in jail right now!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:08:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
Fine. If we are going to treat everyone equally, then toss his sorry ass in jail right this moment. You can bet that is where I would be if I went down to D.C. and shot someone. I can't believe you are defending this irresponsible officer. He's the kind that gives good officers a bad name.



Well said.

If one of us plebians shot someone (never mind that we couldn't carry in DC in the first place), then hauled ass and didn't so much as call an ambulance, you know that we would be jailed. Convicted? Who knows. But held without bail, or with wickedly high bail? You bet.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:18:15 AM EDT
If I fired at ANYTHING off duty and failed to report it immediately. I guarantee you I would be fired and charged. But I'm not any captain either.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:22:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:22:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Gosh, I wonder if he'll be placed on payed administrative leave?



Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working?

Even the D.C. cops admit this looks like a robbery attempt. Robbery is so common in DC that maybe the cop thought he didnt hit the punk so there was no point in filing a report?


You're shitting me right? Oh I don't think I hit him, so why bother? Are you actually using this argument as justification?

Nevermind his fellow law enforcement officers who will get called to a shots fired call, or, even worse what about the rounds that didn't hit the BG?

If you're serious about this argument you need to be flogged.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:17:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

However, NOT reporting a shooting is pretty suspect, and should be a major issue



For sure. But lots of crime victims wait until they get home to report crimes. Its a great frustration for police everywhere. Should a NYPD officer know better? for sure. But then again if you are recruiting cops from the general population they are going to be no better than that population and do the same stupid things.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:19:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:
Not to cop bash, but if that were ordinary Joe Citizen, he'd be in jail right now!



IME Joe Citizen often waits till he returns home to report crimes.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:23:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zrxc77:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working?





MY JOB doesn't give me the legal right to carry a concealed weapon in Washington DC.



HIS JOB does.



If you want to further the divide between cops and the taxpayers they police, then treating cops differently off the clock is the best way to do it.


Fine. If we are going to treat everyone equally, then toss his sorry ass in jail right this moment. You can bet that is where I would be if I went down to D.C. and shot someone. I can't believe you are defending this irresponsible officer.



I'm not, i dont know a thing about him. I'm only pointing out that its wrong to treat off duty cops one way and CCW holders another. To treat a crime victim differently becuase he's a cop 40 hours a week. The say a man should not be able to go to work becuase he was a crime victim off duty.

Those are very hypocritical points of view if cops are "civilians."
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:26:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
I'm only pointing out that its wrong to treat off duty cops one way and CCW holders another.



Then why do cops have HR 218???

If it's wrong to treat people differently, then it's wrong.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:27:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
So does the NY cop have a CCW in his home state??

If not, he is fucked.



Off duty and retired police officers can now carry anywhere in the USA thenks To GW signing the law.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:28:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 12:36:14 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
Fine. If we are going to treat everyone equally, then toss his sorry ass in jail right this moment. You can bet that is where I would be if I went down to D.C. and shot someone. I can't believe you are defending this irresponsible officer. He's the kind that gives good officers a bad name.



Well said.

If one of us plebians shot someone (never mind that we couldn't carry in DC in the first place), then hauled ass and didn't so much as call an ambulance...



Call an ambulance for what? Did you see any evidence that he knew he hit the suspect or the suspect remained at the scene?

Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off. You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there? Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. One is the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective. But the other is better street smarts.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:32:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RaynoEleven:
If I fired at ANYTHING off duty and failed to report it immediately. I guarantee you I would be fired and charged. But I'm not any captain either.



But should you be? If so, that means cops are somhow special, different, better than everyone else.

Personally i think off duty/off the clock conduct is none of your empoyers business unless you are in action duty military.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:33:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 12:36:59 PM EDT by jrzy]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
Fine. If we are going to treat everyone equally, then toss his sorry ass in jail right this moment. You can bet that is where I would be if I went down to D.C. and shot someone. I can't believe you are defending this irresponsible officer. He's the kind that gives good officers a bad name.



Well said.

If one of us plebians shot someone (never mind that we couldn't carry in DC in the first place), then hauled ass and didn't so much as call an ambulance...



Call an ambulance for what? Did you see any evidence that he new he hit the suspect ofr the suspect remeained at the scene?

Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off. You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there? Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. Ones the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective. But the other is much better street smarts.



Although the officer was probably justified in the shooting (we need more facts)
He is wrong as he can be for not reporting the discharge of his weapon, he didn't know if he hit someone?
Then he didn't know where the round went and could be lodged in some old womans head in her apartment, right?
He is wrong and you are lowering yourself defending his non reporting of the weapon discharge, he crossed the line form LEO to criminal when he failed to report it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:33:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:


Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off. You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there? Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. Ones the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective. But the other is much better street smarts.




"someplace safe" doesn't usually involve crossing several states!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:34:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
I'm only pointing out that its wrong to treat off duty cops one way and CCW holders another.



Then why do cops have HR 218???

If it's wrong to treat people differently, then it's wrong.




Absolutely. It's unforgivable that every CCW holder cant carry nationwide.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:34:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Call an ambulance for what? Did you see any evidence that he new he hit the suspect ofr the suspect remeained at the scene?





He drew his pistol and fired some shots. A fucking cellphone call to the DCPD, if nothing else, would have been in order. What sort of Barney Fife fires some shots, figures 'Eh, I may not have hit anything', then goes home?



Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off. You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there? Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. Ones the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective. But the other is much better street smarts.



Would I go to a 'safe place'? No, I would go to jail. Regardless, it doesn't take a day or whatever of travel to get to a 'safe place'. Some lousy cop thought he could get away it, and you really should stop apologizing for him.

I am generally a huge supporter of the police, but crap like this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:36:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
Fine. If we are going to treat everyone equally, then toss his sorry ass in jail right this moment. You can bet that is where I would be if I went down to D.C. and shot someone. I can't believe you are defending this irresponsible officer. He's the kind that gives good officers a bad name.



Well said.

If one of us plebians shot someone (never mind that we couldn't carry in DC in the first place), then hauled ass and didn't so much as call an ambulance...



Call an ambulance for what? Did you see any evidence that he new he hit the suspect ofr the suspect remeained at the scene?

Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off. You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there? Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. Ones the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective. But the other is much better street smarts.




So you are going to stand there with a straight face and tell us it took 36 hours for him to get to a safe place and report it?
You're out on a limb now AR15fan
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:38:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
So does the NY cop have a CCW in his home state??

If not, he is fucked.



Off duty and retired police officers can now carry anywhere in the USA thenks To GW signing the law.




Yes, I know the bill -- it's HR 218.

I mistakenly thought he had to have CCW credentials in his home state too.

Apparently, he only had to be in possession of department issued creds.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:38:20 PM EDT

Police said after they finish their investigation the information will go to the U.S. Attorney's office where federal prosecutors will decide whether or not charges will be filed against the New York officer.

Officials said the officer also faces an internal affairs investigation with his own department.


No good deed....

Don't cops have nationwide CCW now?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:38:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:


Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off. You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there? Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. Ones the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective. But the other is much better street smarts.




"someplace safe" doesn't usually involve crossing several states!



Then why does it happen so often? I have taken hundreds of crime reports from victims who travelled home before reporting a crime. I guess i should tell them, "No M'am, you need to get your ass back on the plane and fly back to NY to report that mugging."
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:39:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 12:40:06 PM EDT by jrzy]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
So does the NY cop have a CCW in his home state??

If not, he is fucked.



Off duty and retired police officers can now carry anywhere in the USA thenks To GW signing the law.




Yes, I know the bill -- it's HR 218.

I mistakenly thought he had to have CCW credentials in his home state too.

Apparently, he only had to be in possession of department issued creds.



I think I need to volunteer to the local sheriffs office as a reserve officer.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:


Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off. You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there? Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. Ones the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective. But the other is much better street smarts.




"someplace safe" doesn't usually involve crossing several states!



Then why does it happen so often? I have taken hundreds of crime reports from victims who travelled home before reporting a crime. I guess i should tell them, "No M'am, you need to get your ass back on the plane and fly back to NY to report that mugging."



You're out on a limb now AR15fan
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:41:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
Fine. If we are going to treat everyone equally, then toss his sorry ass in jail right this moment. You can bet that is where I would be if I went down to D.C. and shot someone. I can't believe you are defending this irresponsible officer. He's the kind that gives good officers a bad name.



Well said.

If one of us plebians shot someone (never mind that we couldn't carry in DC in the first place), then hauled ass and didn't so much as call an ambulance...



Call an ambulance for what? Did you see any evidence that he new he hit the suspect ofr the suspect remeained at the scene?

Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off. You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there? Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. Ones the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective. But the other is much better street smarts.




So you are going to stand there with a straight face and tell us it took 36 hours for him to get to a safe place and report it?



Of course not. However it happens all the time and people seem to be of the opinion that becuase he's a cop he should be treated diferrently than the other victims who do the same thing.
Either cops and the public are the same, or they are not. You cant have it both ways unless your a hyporcrite.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:42:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 12:44:05 PM EDT by Noname]
Was the cop's last name Kennedy...?

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:46:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Absolutely. It's unforgivable that every CCW holder cant carry nationwide.


You just went up a notch in my book, bud.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:48:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Absolutely. It's unforgivable that every CCW holder cant carry nationwide.


You just went up a notch in my book, bud.



Hey if driver's licenses and marriages are honored in every state there is no logical reason that CCW permits should not be too.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:48:47 PM EDT
If I had to guess I would say he had been drinking and did not want to get in trouble. He should be in trouble for waiting so long. I believe most agencies have policies requiring you to make a report any time you discharge your weapon except during training or practice.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:50:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By BillSouthCarolina:

Perhaps the officer had been drinking?





.......and it's too late to test for that now.



Exactly.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:58:36 PM EDT
The outcome:

1 stolen car recovered
4 scumbags busted
1 scumbag has a bullet hole in him

I can appreciate that.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:12:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
If I had to guess I would say he had been drinking and did not want to get in trouble. He should be in trouble for waiting so long. I believe most agencies have policies requiring you to make a report any time you discharge your weapon except during training or practice.



+1. I would suspect he will face disciplinary action for not reporting it immediately, possibly criminal charges too, for obstruction. He might lose his job, but what level is the crime for failing to report or not saying anything at the time when the DC cops knocked on his door? A misdemeanor? If the shoot was justified, how can they charge him with a crime related to defending himself? Think about Bernard Getts, when he shot the muggers in the NYC subway years ago. The NYPD charged him with other violations related to his "illegal" possession of the gun, but nothing for actually shooting the bad guys.

HR218 aside, it's kinda ironic that the NYPD officer shot a guy in the District, a city that has outlawed guns for everyone but the cops who work there, and he come from a city that pretty much does the same thing. Also not all places honor HR218. I believe both NYPD and the District choose to ignore it knowing they will eventually lose the court battle, prefering to "get the gun off the street". Both cities did not like the law being signed. The officer may have been aware of this also and coupled with a couple drinks in his system, he felt he would fare better once he got back home. Plus back in New York he would have access to a PBA attorney to help defend his case.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:27:29 PM EDT
This is an undeniable fact:

An Officer of the law who discharged his weapon at a person and does not report it is dead 100% wrong!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:30:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gardenWeasel:
The outcome:

1 stolen car recovered
4 scumbags busted
1 scumbag has a bullet hole in him

I can appreciate that.


+1.

Alot of good came out of this.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:39:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:
This is an undeniable fact:

An Officer of the law who discharged his weapon at a person and does not report it is dead 100% wrong!



How about anyone who discharges thier weapon at a person and waits till they get home to report it is dead wrong? He wasnt acting as "an officer of the law" he was off duty and got mugged.
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