Quoted: If you want to further the divide between cops and the taxpayers they police, then treating cops differently off the clock is the best way to do it.

The law and some cops already do that.  Do I have the right to carry in DC?

I can think of one reason. Maybe they atempted to rob him, pulled out the fake guns, and he drew his weapon and fired as he flead. It can take up to a min to incapacitate a subject and if he didnt have cuffs then even if they dropped the weapon or anything he still couldnt safely restrain both by himself. He probably shot, ran, and reported it when he thought he was safe.

For example, if I was out jogging and were attacked by a dog and shot it I might not report it until I cleared the area if the dog didnt stop.

Quoted: I can think of one reason. Maybe they atempted to rob him, pulled out the fake guns, and he drew his weapon and fired as he flead. It can take up to a min to incapacitate a subject and if he didnt have cuffs then even if they dropped the weapon or anything he still couldnt safely restrain both by himself. He probably shot, ran, and reported it when he thought he was safe.

So he waited 36 hours to see if they bled out?

Actually, we don't know that the officer ever tried to contact the DCPD, muchless 36 hours later. The article doesn't specify who made the call.

Quoted: I can think of one reason. Maybe they atempted to rob him, pulled out the fake guns, and he drew his weapon and fired as he flead. It can take up to a min to incapacitate a subject and if he didnt have cuffs ...

Cuffs?  Not only was he not on duty, or even in hs own juristiction.  He was outside the state of his juristiction.

Robbery victim shot at the suspect(s), may not have even known he hit one, then travelled home before reporting the incident.  BFD.

Quoted: Quoted: This is an undeniable fact: An Officer of the law who discharged his weapon at a person and does not report it is dead 100% wrong! How about anyone who discharges thier weapon at a person and waits till they get home to report it is dead wrong?  He wasnt acting as "an officer of the law"  he was off duty and got mugged.

Don't use deflection.
If you want to argue the LEO vs civilian responsibility we can start another thread.
This officer has taken an oath to uphold the law, did I?
Did any civilian?
He has more rights (national CC) (can shoot an unarmed man (maybe justifiably) and claim he thought the perp had a gun and not be arrested let alone jailed) so he is held to the higher standard ,PERIOD!

You clouding the issue of this officers guilt by deflection is a debating tactic I leaned in high school.  

There’s got to be more - it’s really hard to believe a high-ranking LEO would be stupid enough to simply walk away from this if it was a good shoot.

I can’t help but suspect that somewhere between his being involved in this incident and reporting his involvement, this guy had a long talk with a lawyer.

Still, I don’t know the laws in DC, but is he under any legal requirement to report his involvement in this anyway?   Seems he wouldn’t be required to potentially incriminate himself.

Also, he was carrying under his badge – I’d think that would legitimately get his agency involved.

Being a NY cop, you'd think he would know about the Bernie Goetz case, and have learned some lessons from it.  

Quoted: This officer has taken an oath to uphold the law, did I? Did any civilian?

Not to disagree with you jrzy, but every non-military cop IS a civilian, so yes, civilians have sworn that oath.

Quoted: Quoted: This officer has taken an oath to uphold the law, did I? Did any civilian? Not to disagree with you jrzy, but every non-military cop IS a civilian, so yes, civilians have sworn that oath.

You're right Larry but what I meant was an everyday man on the street.
We as regular citizens have a moral obligation to abide by the law and an LEO has that same obligation, he also has the oath he took when he raised his right hand and swore to uphold the law, right?

He of all people should have known what was the correct thing to do and he should have done so.

Added:
There is also separate charges LEO's face when they screw up on the job in a criminal fashion.
The law makes it distinct that they are held to a higher standard because of their job.

Quoted: Quoted: Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working? MY JOB doesn't give me the legal right to carry a concealed weapon in Washington DC. HIS JOB does.

A LEO does not have a right to carry a weapon, its a privilege due to the job. The difference? Privileges can be taken away, your RIGHT (2nd Amend) to carry a weaon can not.

You still haven't answered the question posed to you, would your job fire you?? Answer, no, therefore adminstrative leave.

Quoted: So does the NY cop have a CCW in his home state?? If not, he is fucked.

Why is that?

Because he was drinking...........

But then all that means is he's a good shot even when he's drunk!

Quoted: Quoted: Gosh, I wonder if he'll be placed on payed administrative leave? Would your job fire you if you were involved in a shooting off the clock with your CCW, or would you be allowed to continue working?

Probably, since I would be sitting in jail and would be missing a lot of time at work.  

Quoted: So does the NY cop have a CCW in his home state?? If not, he is fucked.

Ever hear of HR 218?

Quoted: Added: There is also separate charges LEO's face when they screw up on the job in a criminal fashion. The law makes it distinct that they are held to a higher standard because of their job.

It's called US code....and you have to be acting under color of law.....if not acting under color of law then it doesn't apply......Of course there are several codes to go under

Quoted: Quoted: Not to cop bash, but if that were ordinary Joe Citizen, he'd be in jail right now! IME Joe Citizen often waits till he returns home to report crimes.

Are we talking like bulgaries and such?  

How about Joe Citizen who shoots somebody, goes home and doesn't report it until the next morning, in your experience, what would happen?

It was irresponsible of this guy to fire at a person, hitting him and then not reporting it right away.  In my opinion, that's flight to escape prosecution.  He has a responsiblilty, along with Joe Citizen to stick around the scene and to report it as soon as possible.  

Quoted: I'm not, i dont know a thing about him. I'm only pointing out that its wrong to treat off duty cops one way and CCW holders another. To treat a crime victim differently becuase he's a cop 40 hours a week. The say a man should not be able to go to work becuase he was a crime victim off duty. Those are very hypocritical points of view if cops are "civilians."

None of us are arguing that he should be treated differently, and none of us are arguing to treat a crime victim differently because he's a cop.  We are arguing the opposite, and that he should be arrested like anyone else would have been.

Quoted: Seriously, you get jumped by 4 guys in a bad neighborhood, you get off one shot but you have no idea if you hit anyone and they all ran off.  You going to stand right there and call 911 on your cell phone and wait as long as it takes the cops to get there?  Or are you going to go to a safe place first then report it. One is the "right" thing from a evidence gathering perspective.  But the other is better street smarts.

So to you, waiting till the next morning is a reasonable time?  

Shit, he should have just waited until Monday morning when he went back into work, wrote a report then.  Why trouble himself in his off time, right?

I can't believe all the armchair commando's that want to arrest a guy that was more than likely a victim of some POS slug criminal who wound up giving them what they deserve.

After all the "draw down" and "shoot till slidelock" stories I read here you think you'd be singing this guys acolades.

Shitheads are dead......So F'ing what!




ETA:  And just for the record.....if I read this story about a CCW holder who shot a bunch of turds and reported it 36 hourse later my reaction would be......Shitheads are dead......So F'ing what!

Quoted: How about anyone who discharges thier weapon at a person and waits till they get home to report it is dead wrong?  He wasnt acting as "an officer of the law"  he was off duty and got mugged.

And generally that's how it works to.  A non-LEO citizen would have been arrested in this story as soon as he made the call.

Only in America.....

...can criminals carry guns in the Nation's Capitol, but citizens (CCW trained to carry, safe and sensible) ...cannot.

Maybe ARFCOM can swing a deal for their CCW members with Jamaica , to make use all Jamaican reserve police officers for , say a $50 donation. THEN we could legally carry in DC.

Quoted: I can't believe all the armchair commando's that want to arrest a guy that was more than likely a victim of some POS slug criminal who wound up giving them what they deserve. After all the "draw down" and "shoot till slidelock" stories I read here you think you'd be singing this guys acolades. Shitheads are dead......So F'ing what! ETA:  And just for the record.....if I read this story about a CCW holder who shot a bunch of turds and reported it 36 hourse later my reaction would be......Shitheads are dead......So F'ing what!

He broke the law by not reporting the weapon discharge.
Should we turn a blide eye because he's a cop?
Should he be held at least to the same standard most here would have been held to?

By the way, reading is fundamental, no one is dead detective LOL

I think the cop was probably afraid to report the shot.  I wouldn't trust DC cops to be reasonable.  With his experience with the NYPD, he knows how they treat outsiders.

No matter what, it sounds like the incident turned-out well in the end.  If it was up to me, I'd support whatever the minimum punishment is for the guy.

I'm surprised to see so many people here saying that we must report certain things to the police.  Whatever happened to the right to privacy?  If neither party wants to report something, what right do the police have to punish you for not informing them.  Where do you draw the line?z

Quoted: NYPD Officer Clandestinely Shoots Teen In NW Washington Story by nbc4.com D.C. police are trying to find out why a New York City policeman waited until he got home to report he shot a teenager in Northwest Friday night. Police said they received a 911 call for the sound of gunshots about 9 p.m. from the 1600 block of Nicholson Street, a neighborhood just south of 16th Street and Military Road.

By the way AR15fan, he fired more than once according to the story above.
So he fired multiple times and then he left the area (by 250 miles)

Quoted: I'm surprised to see so many people here saying that we must report certain things to the police.  Whatever happened to the right to privacy?  If neither party wants to report something, what right do the police have to punish you for not informing them.

Are you saying that you have some kind of "right to privacy" in the shooting of someone?
Put the pipe down!

Quoted: You still haven't answered the question posed to you, would your job fire you?? Answer, no, therefore adminstrative leave.

I did answer this on page one:

I would think standard fare would be paid administrative leave during the investigation, just like any other police shooting. Would my job give me this? No, but I'd probably not be asked to stay home anyway Innocent until proven guilty, that justifies the paid leave. However, NOT reporting a shooting is pretty suspect, and should be a major issue

I will put my money on waiting to sober up......

Quoted: Quoted: NYPD Officer Clandestinely Shoots Teen In NW Washington Story by nbc4.com D.C. police are trying to find out why a New York City policeman waited until he got home to report he shot a teenager in Northwest Friday night. Police said they received a 911 call for the sound of gunshots about 9 p.m. from the 1600 block of Nicholson Street, a neighborhood just south of 16th Street and Military Road. By the way AR15fan, he fired more than once according to the story above. So he fired multiple times and then he left the area (by 250 miles)

You may assume so but that may have been an entirely diferrent shooting.  Gunfire is not uncommon in DC.

Quoted: Quoted: How about anyone who discharges thier weapon at a person and waits till they get home to report it is dead wrong?  He wasnt acting as "an officer of the law"  he was off duty and got mugged. And generally that's how it works to.  A non-LEO citizen would have been arrested in this story as soon as he made the call.

For what charge?  Failure to report self defense?  Resisting an armed robbery? You are also overlooking that pesky 5th.

Quoted: So does the NY cop have a CCW in his home state?? If not, he is fucked.

what would not having CCW in his home state have to do with it?

if I shot at somebody and waited over a day to report it, you better believe I would be sitting in jail until I went to trial. While sitting in jail I would lose my job. I will almost* certainly guarantee that a CCW holder put in this same situation would have their life turned upside down and lose almost everything even if it is a good shoot

.


Roy

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about anyone who discharges thier weapon at a person and waits till they get home to report it is dead wrong?  He wasnt acting as "an officer of the law"  he was off duty and got mugged. And generally that's how it works to.  A non-LEO citizen would have been arrested in this story as soon as he made the call. For what charge?  Failure to report self defense?  Resisting an armed robbery? You are also overlooking that pesky 5th.

discharging a firearm in city limits, assault with a deadly weapon, attemted murder seem to ring more bells in my book. If a normal citizen kept quiet while the little gangsta lied his ass off we would be crucified

ETA: don't get me wrong, I'm glad the guy protected himself. And I think theway the state is handling it is perfect, but it is far from equal. If Joe CCW did it the process afterwards would be quite different

Quoted: Quoted: Not to cop bash, but if that were ordinary Joe Citizen, he'd be in jail right now! IME Joe Citizen often waits till he returns home to report crimes.

sure, if "waiting till they get home" means an hour or so and a few miles or tens of miles away and it's an untrained civilian
but a day and a half and hundreds of miles away, and a trained cop that is supposed to be able to handle this type of situation?

Quoted: Quoted: So does the NY cop have a CCW in his home state?? If not, he is fucked. what would not having CCW in his home state have to do with it?

Guess you'll have to read the whole thread.......

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: NYPD Officer Clandestinely Shoots Teen In NW Washington Story by nbc4.com D.C. police are trying to find out why a New York City policeman waited until he got home to report he shot a teenager in Northwest Friday night. Police said they received a 911 call for the sound of gunshots about 9 p.m. from the 1600 block of Nicholson Street, a neighborhood just south of 16th Street and Military Road. By the way AR15fan, he fired more than once according to the story above. So he fired multiple times and then he left the area (by 250 miles) You may assume so but that may have been an entirely diferrent shooting.  Gunfire is not uncommon in DC.

These are some seriously fucked up arguments.

Oh gunfire happens all the time, so there is no reason to report the intentional discharge of a firearms in a major city to the police.

I sincerely hope you don't breed.

I think someone else nailed it. He was drunk, and needed to cover himself.

Quoted: Quoted: Not to cop bash, but if that were ordinary Joe Citizen, he'd be in jail right now! IME Joe Citizen often waits till he returns home to report crimes.

So your agency gets lots of people calling in from Wisconsin 5 days after the crime saying "Yeah, I wanted to wait till my California vacation was over and I got home to get all this started."? The guy went to NEW YORK, not Georgetown. What'd he do, walk? "I called as soon as I got home."

You're slipping, ARfan - but that can happen when you reach really far.

More information:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/12/AR2005121201817.html

D.C. Police Say NYPD Officer Shot Teen, Left

By Allan Lengel
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 13, 2005; B03

An off-duty New York City police official shot and wounded a 16-year-old youth who apparently was trying to rob him Friday night in Northwest Washington. The official then left the scene and reported the shooting to his department only after returning to New York, authorities said yesterday.

D.C. police said they were investigating the incident. The officer, identified as Robert Wheeler, is an inspector with 24 years of service who works for the department's transit division, authorities said.

"We're still trying to determine what happened that night," said Lt. Michelle Milam of the D.C. police. "The New York City police department is assisting us."

New York and D.C. police declined to speculate on whether the officer violated any criminal laws or police procedures.

According to a police report, the New York officer was standing in the 1600 block of Nicholson Street NW, in the Brightwood area, when a stolen car with four teenagers inside pulled up about 9 p.m.

Two of the teenagers approached and tried to rob him, according to the police report. At least one brandished what appeared to be a handgun, police said.

The New York officer opened fire, striking a 16-year-old male in the arm, police said. The officer apparently then left the scene and may have watched from a nearby house as police arrived and investigated the incident, 4th District Cmdr. Hilton Burton said last night. Police recovered five gun shell casings.

Police, responding to reports of shots fired, found the four teenagers, ages 14 to 17, at the scene. They recovered four fake guns and arrested the teenagers on charges of unauthorized use of a vehicle.

The wounded youth was treated at a hospital for injuries not believed to be life-threatening. None of the teenagers was identified.

A little more than 24 hours after the incident, Milam said, New York City police called to say that an "officer may have been involved in discharging his weapon in the District of Columbia."

A New York police spokesman said last night that the officer remains on duty.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not to cop bash, but if that were ordinary Joe Citizen, he'd be in jail right now! IME Joe Citizen often waits till he returns home to report crimes.   So your agency gets lots of people calling in from Wisconsin 5 days after the crime saying "Yeah, I wanted to wait till my California vacation was over and I got home to get all this started."?

Worse than that, sometimes they wait years. Sex crimes are the worst. We should prosecute those women for not reporting the crime.  After all, they fought back, potentially injuring the suspect.

Either cops are the same as everyone else or they are not.  You can have it both ways or split the baby down the middle.

Quoted: Quoted: This is an undeniable fact: An Officer of the law who discharged his weapon at a person and does not report it is dead 100% wrong! How about anyone who discharges thier weapon at a person and waits till they get home to report it is dead wrong?  He wasnt acting as "an officer of the law"  he was off duty and got mugged.

It cannot be reasonably asserted that a person who is armed for the sole reason that he is an officer of the law is not acting as an officer of the law when he uses his weapon.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is an undeniable fact: An Officer of the law who discharged his weapon at a person and does not report it is dead 100% wrong! How about anyone who discharges thier weapon at a person and waits till they get home to report it is dead wrong?  He wasnt acting as "an officer of the law"  he was off duty and got mugged. It cannot be reasonably asserted that a person who is armed for the sole reason that he is an officer of the law is not acting as an officer of the law when he uses his weapon.

Was he defending himself from an armed robbery or was he trying to make an arrest? Since was outside of the state where he is employed as a police officer. So I dont see how he was acting as an officer of the law.

More information #2:

www.nynewsday.com

City cop ID'd in DC shooting

BY ROCCO PARASCANDOLA
STAFF WRITER

December 13, 2005

A NYPD inspector allegedly shot a juvenile in the arm in Washington, D.C., then fled the scene, police sources said last night.

The cop was identified by NYPD sources as Insp. Robert Wheeler, commanding officer of Transit Borough Brooklyn.

Washington, D.C.'s Metropolitan Police Department on Friday night received a report of a youth shot in the arm on 16th Street NW, around 9 p.m., but had few other details, officials there said.

On Sunday, the department received a call from the NYPD, after a police officer told his bosses he had been involved with the shooting, said Officer Kenneth Bryson of the Metropolitan Police.

Apparently, the juvenile and an accomplice had tried to commit a robbery and the intended victim - the police officer - was "forced to fire," Bryson said.

Bryson said the shooting happened when the suspects got out of a car and approached the victim in his car.

Wheeler in 1999 was appointed by then-Police Commissioner Howard Safir to the No. 2 position in the Street Crime Unit, the first black supervisor in that unit. Wheeler could not be reached for comment.

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 allows cops to carry guns between states while they are off duty.

Copyright © 2005, Newsday, Inc.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is an undeniable fact: An Officer of the law who discharged his weapon at a person and does not report it is dead 100% wrong! How about anyone who discharges thier weapon at a person and waits till they get home to report it is dead wrong?  He wasnt acting as "an officer of the law"  he was off duty and got mugged. It cannot be reasonably asserted that a person who is armed for the sole reason that he is an officer of the law is not acting as an officer of the law when he uses his weapon. Was he defending himself from an armed robbery or was he trying to make an arrest? Since was outside of the state where he is employed as a police officer. So I dont see how he was acting as an officer of the law.

You're right, he didn't act like a police officer with 24 years of service , he acted like a criminal and fled the scene.

Quoted: Either cops are the same as everyone else or they are not.  You can have it both ways or split the baby down the middle.

Well, if you advocate that police officers are the same as everyone else, then this officer should be sitting in jail simply for carrying in D.C., let alone fleeing the scene of a shooting, since everyone else is prohibited from carrying a concealed weapon in Washington D.C.

It is now becoming obvious to me which side of the "either cops are the same as everyone else or they are not" issue you are on.  Based on your arguments here, you think officers are not the same but are rather a protected class that should have special privleges over everyone else.  And you wonder why there is a divide between police officers and "civilians"?

Quoted: Worse than that, sometimes they wait years. Sex crimes are the worst. We should prosecute those women for not reporting the crime.  After all, they fought back, potentially injuring the suspect. Either cops are the same as everyone else or they are not.  You can have it both ways or split the baby down the middle.

Jesus Christ man, and you are a cop?  God damn, no wonder how the sterotype of cops being jack booted thugs and idiots get started, because of you!  You are comparing a woman who gets raped to somebody who gets involved in a shooting, flees the scene, and doesn't report it till a day later?  He didn't wonder where his bullets went?  Or even if the kid he shot was dead or not?  And you don't see the difference between that and a woman who gets raped by her father when she is 12 years old?  
Good god man, I don't think I will ever call 911 knowing that I might get somebody like you who'll respond.

Quoted: Of course not.  However it happens all the time and people seem to be of the opinion that becuase he's a cop he should be treated diferrently than the other victims who do the same thing.

Find me one case where:

1) A civilian shot someone, and then...
2) Crossed state lines, and then...
3) Waited 36 hours before calling the police, and then...

4) Didn't get taken into custody.

Either cops and the public are the same, or they are not.

Obviously, they are not. To suggest otherwise is idiotic.

Quoted: I can't say I blame the guy for fleeing the situation, but being a cop he should have known that not reporting it would be worse on him in the long run

He forgot at least ONE of those S's in SSS

Quoted: If you want to further the divide between cops and the taxpayers they police, then treating cops differently off the clock is the best way to do it.

Let's remember this ^^^ guys.  You DO NOT want to create some 'special' status for police.  If the public/politicians see that national CCW for police is a non-issue, then it will be easier for us to get.

I don't know what the NY officer was thinking.  He probably wanted to 're-group' and thought it would be best to do that back in NYC.  But if he's 'off-the-clock' then the situation should be treated as any other CCW shooting.  

It is not my job to perform CPR and call an ambulance if I shoot someone.  I'll be happy to answer any and all questions down at the PD the next morning with my attorney.

Quoted: 1) A civilian shot someone, and then...

A non-LE citizen, please.  They aren't military.