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Posted: 12/13/2005 7:38:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 4:40:26 AM EDT by TacticalStrat]
A lawyer friend emailed this to me. I'm wondering if it would work, or just piss off the judge and prosecutor? It appears that this game is you make prosecuting your case way to much work, and hopefully they just dismiss the case. The courts would rather take the easy money from the 99.9% of the speeders that just pay their fine, and they'd rather not deal with all the work it takes to prosecute the .01% of speeders that want a jury trial.


Here's what you should do:

First, request documents immediately (see below). If documents are produced, look for exculpatory evidence. If no documents produced, just prior to trial write to court and ask for the case to be dismissed since documents no produced (see below). Then on the trial date, you can go to prosecutor and try to get a reduced charge, or argue your motion. If case postponed, then can come back and argue the merits of your case. Dress in jacket and tie, look and act professional and respectful, and do not put down the police, just their equipment, training, or one time mistake. Be humble to the judge. Good luck.

Document request:

Dear Sir or Madam:

Please be-advised that I will be representing myself as the Defendant regarding the above-captioned summons. Since I am employed as _________________, I can usually be reached during normal office hours at my office phone number ______________.

Request is hereby respectfully made for the production of any and all discoverable materials including, but not limited to the following:

1. Names and addresses of all proposed witnesses;
2. A Police reports, including any video or audio tapes made of the Defendant;
3. All statements made by the Defendant and to whom they were made;
4. Police reports, including any video or audio tapes made of the Defendant;
5. Certification of any speed-measuring device (hereinafter referred to as “Speed Device”), speedometer and/or odometer used in the issuance of the summons; specifications for any microwave radiation or laser beam(s) projected from any such Speed Device used;
6. Any records of repairs, the repair history, and indications of any previous malfunction of any such Speed Device, speedometer and/or odometer;
7. Certification of any calibration device used in conjunction with the foregoing Speed Device, speedometer and/or odometer;
8. The User's Manual of Instructions for any foregoing Speed Device, speedometer and/or odometer;
9. Maintenance records, up to and including the present date, for the automobile used by the police at the time of the issuance of the above-identified summons (“hereinafter referred to as “Automobile”);
10. Tire inflation records for the Automobile, and any documents specifying the tire pressure to be used when the Speed Device, speedometer and/or odometer in the Automobile are used to measure the speed of other automobiles;
11. Certification of the competency of the Operator to use the Speed Device, Automobile, speedometer and/or odometer in the issuance of motor vehicle moving violations; and
12. Officer's notes, including, but not limited to notes customarily made on the back of the Officer's summons, log of related activity preceding the issuance of the present summons, log of data for which summons were issued at this location on the day in question.

To assist you in finding these materials, a copy of the above-identified summons is also enclosed herewith. Thank you for your courtesy and cooperation in this matter.

Motion to dismiss:

Dear Judge _____:

I am representing myself as the Defendant in the above-identified matter, and move this Court for (1) an order that the State be barred from presenting any testimony at trial, for the above-captioned matter, concerning the matters for which documents were requested by Defendant’s ___ letter [document request] (a copy of which is attached hereto as Attachment A), and (2) an order dismissing the above-captioned matter since, without such testimony, the State cannot meet its burden of proof, the Defendant would be unable to challenge any testimony or evidence at trial that is inconsistent with the information contained on the requested documents, and the Defendant would be unable to present any possibly exculpatory evidence that may be contained in the requested documents.

The Defendant believes that such action by the Court is justified since the State has failed to produce any of the documents properly requested by Defendant, and such failure to produce has prejudiced the Defendant’s ability to mount a defense by investigating the veracity and accuracy of the State’s evidence prior to trial, and to possibly challenge testimony and evidence at trial.

Defendant swears and declares as follows:

1. State fact regarding your request for documents

2. As of the date of this letter, the Defendant has not received any of the requested documents from the State, the Prosecutor’s Office, the Records Administrator, or anyone from the ______ Municipal Court, even though Defendant’s address, work telephone number, and direct work facsimile number were clearly and correctly set forth on the ____ letter.

For the reasons stated above, Defendant respectfully requests this Court to dismiss the above-identified matter, and it is Defendant’s belief that a sufficient case has been presented to enable this Court to grant Defendant’s motion to dismiss this action. In the alternative, if the Court decides not to dismiss this case, Defendant then requests that the State be required to immediately provide the documents requested in Attachment A, and the trial date be moved to such a time that Defendant can review such documents, request additional discovery if needed, and suitably prepare for trial.

If the Court needs to contact the Defendant regarding this motion, Defendant can be reached by mail at the above address, or by telephone, during normal office hours, at my work telephone number _______, or via my direct facsimile number _________. Thank you for your courtesy and cooperation in this matter.


Respectfully submitted,

Enc.
cc: Prosecutor’s Office (Via Facsimile)
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:39:06 AM EDT
It wont work, they want you money and will get it
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:40:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:41:31 AM EDT by NCPatrolAR]
How about taking your foot off the gas peddle and go the speed limit?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:40:21 AM EDT
Or the offender could man up and take his punishment instead of trying to weasel their way out of it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:41:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:43:14 AM EDT by VBC]
It might.

Of course they could continue the case to another date to give the officer/prosecutor time to produce all the requested items, then there will be absolutely no doubt you were speeding.

Usually, judges will grant one continuance to allow the officer/prosectutor to get their case straight. If they don't have it together by the second date, the judge will dismiss.

Most of the time, they will already have a lot of that stuff on them (speedo/radar calibration sheets, officer certifications, etc.) because that's an old trick now.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:44:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
It might.

Of course they could continue it to give the officer/prosecutor time to produce all the requested items, then there will be absolutely no doubt you were speeding.




If the prosecutor cannot prove the speed measuring device was properly maintained
through scheduled calibration, that is grounds for dismissal.

I'm not sure about everyone else's state, but at least some allow for jury trials
for speeding tickets.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:45:46 AM EDT
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:46:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:48:09 AM EDT by VBC]

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

If the prosecutor cannot prove the speed measuring device was properly maintained
through scheduled calibration, that is grounds for dismissal.

I'm not sure about everyone else's state, but at least some allow for jury trials
for speeding tickets.




In VA if the prosecution is missing a certification form (like for speedo/radar calibration) or lab analyses result to confirm an illegal drug is actually an illegal druge, the judge will allow one continuation so the prosecution can obtain said certificates.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:47:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:47:16 AM EDT by VBC]

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.



On top of that, I've heard a lot of cops say if you tell them an excuse they've never heard before, then they'll let you go.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:48:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.




I'll agree 100% with that. I am always very polite and respectful when I get pulled over, and I get off with a warning about 2 out of 3 times.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:48:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:49:11 AM EDT by rebel_rifle]

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the drawdown on the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.




There, fixed it, the Arfcom way.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:49:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.



Do you also undo the top few buttons of your shirt to show some cleavage... maybe a little leg and some flirtatious looks as well?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:49:23 AM EDT
Well lets see, I had to go sit in the courtroom for 2 1/2 hours yesterday (it sucks having a name at the end of the alphabet) to take care of a ticket. Here in KY, if you don't have your insurance card with you, it automatically includes "you must come to court".

I got stopped by a JBT bitch trooper while in my wifes car (I was taking it to her). I had missed getting the registration done by one day. Cop sees me from a ways away and says, "you ran that stop sign" I said...OK, she says " your plates are expired" I said I know unfortunately I forgot until yesterday (the last day) and couldn't get to the office to get them done. She says, "you don't have your insurance card", I say...its my wifes car, she has them with her and yes I know they are supposed to be in the car but she didn't put one here. She also says "you aren't wearing your seat belt" I said, "yes I was until you stopped me and I had to take it off to get my wallet out".

So I go to court, produce the insurance, the registration, they drop those.....I tell the judge, "I was wearing my seat belt" ..he says "raise your hand and avow that under penalty of perjury...blah blah" I say yes. he dismisses that charge. So I get hit for $20 stop sign penalty and $138 court costs. It would have cost me more not to go to court (if I had had my insurance card) because i could't have pled out of the seat belt thing and presented the registration. They charge you court costs on all the tickets they do and its the same price.

Funniest story yesterday: Girl was there for not having her license on her during the stop. Judge says "do you have one" and she produces some paper that satisfies the prosecutor. The judge then asks.." do you plead guilty to not having one on you on the day in question" (which she obviously didn't have on her...and she says "not guilty" which means she has to come back for a trial. Why not just own up to it, pay the fine and move on.... Judge says "you just gave up a great deal of the day"

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:50:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:52:27 AM EDT by kman84]

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By VBC:
It might.

Of course they could continue it to give the officer/prosecutor time to produce all the requested items, then there will be absolutely no doubt you were speeding.




If the prosecutor cannot prove the speed measuring device was properly maintained
through scheduled calibration, that is grounds for dismissal.

I'm not sure about everyone else's state, but at least some allow for jury trials
for speeding tickets.




there is no user calibration to be done on modern radar units. they are checked and certified at least annualy. if out of spec must be sent in to be repaired. (repair is done by the manufacter) so out of luck on calib and unqualified repair here


btw they are checked by tuning fork every shift
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:52:35 AM EDT

Request is hereby respectfully made for the production of any and all discoverable materials including, but not limited to the following:

1. Names and addresses of all proposed witnesses;
2. A Police reports, including any video or audio tapes made of the Defendant;
3. All statements made by the Defendant and to whom they were made;
4. Police reports, including any video or audio tapes made of the Defendant;
5. Certification of any speed-measuring device (hereinafter referred to as “Speed Device”), speedometer and/or odometer used in the issuance of the summons; specifications for any microwave radiation or laser beam(s) projected from any such Speed Device used;
6. Any records of repairs, the repair history, and indications of any previous malfunction of any such Speed Device, speedometer and/or odometer;
7. Certification of any calibration device used in conjunction with the foregoing Speed Device, speedometer and/or odometer;
8. The User's Manual of Instructions for any foregoing Speed Device, speedometer and/or odometer;
9. Maintenance records, up to and including the present date, for the automobile used by the police at the time of the issuance of the above-identified summons (“hereinafter referred to as “Automobile”);
10. Tire inflation records for the Automobile, and any documents specifying the tire pressure to be used when the Speed Device, speedometer and/or odometer in the Automobile are used to measure the speed of other automobiles;
11. Certification of the competency of the Operator to use the Speed Device, Automobile, speedometer and/or odometer in the issuance of motor vehicle moving violations; and
12. Officer's notes, including, but not limited to notes customarily made on the back of the Officer's summons, log of related activity preceding the issuance of the present summons, log of data for which summons were issued at this location on the day in question.

To assist you in finding these materials, a copy of the above-identified summons is also enclosed herewith. Thank you for your courtesy and cooperation in this matter.


In some municipalities, they just slide your DL with the magnetic strip on the back through a card reader, select the infraction from a soft key, and create a file with all of the above information (and probably a hell of a lot more) crammed into it. Some flunky clerk at City Hall just has to hit "print" and a tree gets killed. They pop this in the mail and in the end, you still get to do your part financing the whole situation.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:53:15 AM EDT
This is an old game. Don't expect traffic court to run like a felony trial. Traffic courts I have observed have heavy caseloads and justice moves so wickedly fast that most cases are processed in 30-45 seconds. You better be certain of what you are doing - traffic court judges don't like screwing around.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:53:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.



I've only been pulled over three times in the last decade or so and being polite /respectful to the officer has gotten me out of all three of those tickets.

FWIW the last time I was stopped the Officer had me clocked @93 mph in a 45mph area and I didn't get the ticket

echo6
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:54:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kman84:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By VBC:
It might.

Of course they could continue it to give the officer/prosecutor time to produce all the requested items, then there will be absolutely no doubt you were speeding.




If the prosecutor cannot prove the speed measuring device was properly maintained
through scheduled calibration, that is grounds for dismissal.

I'm not sure about everyone else's state, but at least some allow for jury trials
for speeding tickets.




there is no user calibration to be done on modern radar units. they are checked and certified at least annualy. if out of spec must be sent in to be repaired. (repair is done by the manufacter) so out of luck on calib and unqualified repair here


btw they are checked by tuning fork every shift




If the PD cannot locate that annual certification certificate and provide it, then that would be grounds for dismissal.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:56:29 AM EDT

btw they are checked by tuning fork every shift


- After every traffic stop here.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:56:31 AM EDT
remember also. you request all of these documents.. they are not free be prepared to pay a dollar a page for doucments. 40-50 pages with all of the things you are requesting. plus annoying the judge you just doubled your fine. congrats
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:57:45 AM EDT
I cant wait for someone to try that documentation stunt with me. No equipment used for speed estimation
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:57:58 AM EDT
One other point: It takes up to two years for your case to come up for trial if you request a jury trial for speeding. The odds are high that the trooper and primary witness that wrote you the ticket may not even be working there anymore. If so, case dismissed.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:00:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
One other point: It takes up to two years for your case to come up for trial if you request a jury trial for speeding. The odds are high that the trooper and primary witness that wrote you the ticket may not even be working there anymore. If so, case dismissed.

Thats what we do here Most departments here are understaffed and don't pay overtime, or pay at all for officers to go to court. You get a ticket on the grave yard shift, call and get your court time changed to the afternoon, no way in hell is the officer gonna show up. No LEO, no ticket, buy bye!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:00:38 AM EDT
Shame so many people ttry to come up with ways to try to get around the law when slowing down is the easiest way to defeat the ticket.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:02:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By roboman:
Or the offender could man up and take his punishment instead of trying to weasel their way out of it.




Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:03:37 AM EDT
This is how attornyes do it, so why not you? I say go for it, make it as difficult as possible for them to get your hard-earned money. If everyone fought every ticket they received, eventually the Govt would figure out that its more expensive to hand out tickets.

But the sheep, some of whom have posted here insist on paying the fines and thanking the system for screwing them in the a**.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:04:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sydney7629:

Originally Posted By roboman:
Or the offender could man up and take his punishment instead of trying to weasel their way out of it.




Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner



Repeat after me sheep: Bhaaaa....bhaaaaa....bhaaaaaa.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:08:43 AM EDT
For everyone saying slow down, what kind of cars do you drive? If you have a car that will top the highest speed limit in your area then STFU! Going fast doesn't cause wrecks. Slow assholes in the left lane cause wrecks.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:08:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:10:36 AM EDT by TacticalStrat]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Shame so many people ttry to come up with ways to try to get around the law when slowing down is the easiest way to defeat the ticket.





Of course you realize that the same system of laws that allows the police to issue speeding tickets, also allows someone charged with speeding to request a jury trial and do everything that the law allows them to do to demonstrate their innocence. Why is the law only good when it's in the police favor?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:10:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.



On top of that, I've heard a lot of cops say if you tell them an excuse they've never heard before, then they'll let you go.




AHHH space monkies are attacking!!!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:15:21 AM EDT

Of course you realize that the same system of laws that allows the police to issue speeding tickets, also allows someone charged with speeding to request a jury trial and do everything that the law allows them to do to demonstrate their innocence. Why is the law only good when it's in the police favor?

- this has nothing to do with something being in the police's favor. Its about someone getting popped for doing something wrong then doing their best to manipulate the system so they dont face the consiquences of their actions.

If someone is truely innocent, then try for a jury trial. I'm all for th truely innocent succesfully fighting charges against them. If you are guilty on the other hand.........
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:16:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.



Yep...a little cleavage and a winning smile doesn't hurt either!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:18:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:19:46 AM EDT by TacticalStrat]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Of course you realize that the same system of laws that allows the police to issue speeding tickets, also allows someone charged with speeding to request a jury trial and do everything that the law allows them to do to demonstrate their innocence. Why is the law only good when it's in the police favor?

- this has nothing to do with something being in the police's favor. Its about someone getting popped for doing something wrong then doing their best to manipulate the system so they dont face the consiquences of their actions.

If someone is truely innocent, then try for a jury trial. I'm all for th truely innocent succesfully fighting charges against them. If you are guilty on the other hand.........



Are you saying that every person that gets a speeding ticket is guilty?


BTW, It;s my opinion that the police "manipulate the system" and issue speeding tickets as a source of revenue generation and not to promote traffic safety.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:19:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Shame so many people ttry to come up with ways to try to get around the law when slowing down is the easiest way to defeat the ticket.



It's good to know what to do in case you're on one of those roads where the speed limit is set for old ladies and the disabled. There's a country road around here that's posted 35 mph when 60 would be more than safe.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:26:46 AM EDT

Are you saying that every person that gets a speeding ticket is guilty?
Nope. There will always be remote cases of faulty equipment, tickets given for "Other" reasons, etc. In my personal experience though, people given tickets for speeding earned them.



BTW, It;s my opinion that the police "manipulate the system" and issue speeding tickets as a source of revenue generation and not to promote traffic safety.
And you are enttiled to your opinion not matter how faulty it may be. Not every juridiction recieves funding off the tickets it issues. Also, I dont know of many officers that would say they wrote someone a ticket because the city wanted more revenue.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:27:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:30:14 AM EDT by mayday]

this has nothing to do with something being in the police's favor. Its about someone getting popped for doing something wrong then doing their best to manipulate the system so they dont face the consiquences of their actions.



Bwaaaaa haaaaa haaaa. Hmmmm, that’s funny, please tell us what LEO’s are doing EVERY time they busts down the door to the wrong house and shoot the innocent occupant in the chest. Or when an FBI agent shoots an Eagle Scout in the face with an M4 carbine. Better yet tell me what the law enforcement community does when one of their own shoots a man 20-times in the chest for showing his wallet.

Are they “doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”? I think they are. So please don’t act all self-righteous when we try to do the same to you guys. Don’t talk to us like we’re children, like we don’t see that there are separate rules for different people and most of all don’t expect us to swallow your tired philosophy. Because when the pudding hits the fan, the LEO’s are the most blatant abusers of “doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”. So do me a favor, why don’t you take your naïve opinion and cram it....with walnuts.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:28:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:
It's good to know what to do in case you're on one of those roads where the speed limit is set for old ladies and the disabled. There's a country road around here that's posted 35 mph when 60 would be more than safe.

Then lobby to have the speed limit changed. Its the very thing we do when we want to have a speed limit changed.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:28:46 AM EDT
I have been pulled over for speeding / traffic infractions approx 10 times in my life ( 30 years of driving ).

I was issued tickets just twice. More than likely guilty of violation EVERY time.

Being polite & having all your doc's together ( insurance - DL & registration ) weighs heavily in my opinion.

Most cops have heard every excuse on the planet ... don't try & flatter yourself by thinking you can come up w/ a new one.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:29:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mayday:
Bwaaaaa haaaaa haaaa. Hmmmm, that’s funny, please tell us what LEO’s are doing EVERY time they busts down the door to the wrong house and shoot the innocent occupant in the chest. Or when an FBI agent shoots an Eagle Scout in the face with an M4 carbine. Better yet tell me what the law enforcement community does when one of their own shoots a man 20-times in the chest for showing his wallet.

Are they “then doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”? I think they are. So please don’t act all self-righteous when we try to do the same to you guys. Don’t talk to us like we’re children, like we don’t see that there are separate rules for different people and most of all don’t expect us to swallow your tired philosophy. Because when the pudding hits the fan, the LEO’s are the most blatant abusers of “doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”. So do me a favor, why don’t you take your naïve opinion and cram it....with walnuts.

Off your meds again I see.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:31:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Of course you realize that the same system of laws that allows the police to issue speeding tickets, also allows someone charged with speeding to request a jury trial and do everything that the law allows them to do to demonstrate their innocence. Why is the law only good when it's in the police favor?

- this has nothing to do with something being in the police's favor. Its about someone getting popped for doing something wrong then doing their best to manipulate the system so they dont face the consiquences of their actions.

If someone is truely innocent, then try for a jury trial. I'm all for th truely innocent succesfully fighting charges against them. If you are guilty on the other hand.........



Are you saying that every person that gets a speeding ticket is guilty?


BTW, It;s my opinion that the police "manipulate the system" and issue speeding tickets as a source of revenue generation and not to promote traffic safety.



Uhh... man, I think your tin foil hat is on too tight. MOST people given speeding tickets WERE speeding. Heck, most people speed. Just drive down the highway at the speed limit and see how much you get passed. Police don't have to "manipulate the system" to issue speeding tickets. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Maybe going 80 in a 70mph zone is safe, but if the police don't issue tickets, most folks would be doing 100mph (I know I would ).

By the way, if you try the above said crap with our municipal judge, and you can't prove to him you really weren't speeding, you just got the max fine. He's not going to tolerate that crap.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:31:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By mayday:
Bwaaaaa haaaaa haaaa. Hmmmm, that’s funny, please tell us what LEO’s are doing EVERY time they busts down the door to the wrong house and shoot the innocent occupant in the chest. Or when an FBI agent shoots an Eagle Scout in the face with an M4 carbine. Better yet tell me what the law enforcement community does when one of their own shoots a man 20-times in the chest for showing his wallet.

Are they “then doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”? I think they are. So please don’t act all self-righteous when we try to do the same to you guys. Don’t talk to us like we’re children, like we don’t see that there are separate rules for different people and most of all don’t expect us to swallow your tired philosophy. Because when the pudding hits the fan, the LEO’s are the most blatant abusers of “doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”. So do me a favor, why don’t you take your naïve opinion and cram it....with walnuts.

Off your meds again I see.



....truth hurts huh?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:33:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.



On top of that, I've heard a lot of cops say if you tell them an excuse they've never heard before, then they'll let you go.




Officer my wife just left me for a cop and I thought you were trying to give the bitch back. Thats why I was speeding.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:34:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mayday:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By mayday:
Bwaaaaa haaaaa haaaa. Hmmmm, that’s funny, please tell us what LEO’s are doing EVERY time they busts down the door to the wrong house and shoot the innocent occupant in the chest. Or when an FBI agent shoots an Eagle Scout in the face with an M4 carbine. Better yet tell me what the law enforcement community does when one of their own shoots a man 20-times in the chest for showing his wallet.

Are they “then doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”? I think they are. So please don’t act all self-righteous when we try to do the same to you guys. Don’t talk to us like we’re children, like we don’t see that there are separate rules for different people and most of all don’t expect us to swallow your tired philosophy. Because when the pudding hits the fan, the LEO’s are the most blatant abusers of “doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”. So do me a favor, why don’t you take your naïve opinion and cram it....with walnuts.

Off your meds again I see.



....truth hurts huh?

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:34:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By al_bundy:

Originally Posted By VBC:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.



On top of that, I've heard a lot of cops say if you tell them an excuse they've never heard before, then they'll let you go.




Officer my wife just left me for a cop and I thought you were trying to give the bitch back. Thats why I was speeding.

I've seen that work. The cop was laughing so hard he let us go. ( I wasn't driving and didn't say it)
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:34:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kman84:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By VBC:
It might.

Of course they could continue it to give the officer/prosecutor time to produce all the requested items, then there will be absolutely no doubt you were speeding.




If the prosecutor cannot prove the speed measuring device was properly maintained
through scheduled calibration, that is grounds for dismissal.

I'm not sure about everyone else's state, but at least some allow for jury trials
for speeding tickets.




there is no user calibration to be done on modern radar units. they are checked and certified at least annualy. if out of spec must be sent in to be repaired. (repair is done by the manufacter) so out of luck on calib and unqualified repair here


btw they are checked by tuning fork every shift



That was what I meant by "scheduled calibration". From what I've read, it used to be quite common
for units to miss their annual checkup. Probably still common for some small "good-ole-boy" departments.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:36:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:

In VA if the prosecution is missing a certification form (like for speedo/radar calibration) or lab analyses result to confirm an illegal drug is actually an illegal druge, the judge will allow one continuation so the prosecution can obtain (fabricate?) said certificates.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:36:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mayday:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By mayday:
Bwaaaaa haaaaa haaaa. Hmmmm, that’s funny, please tell us what LEO’s are doing EVERY time they busts down the door to the wrong house and shoot the innocent occupant in the chest. Or when an FBI agent shoots an Eagle Scout in the face with an M4 carbine. Better yet tell me what the law enforcement community does when one of their own shoots a man 20-times in the chest for showing his wallet.

Are they “then doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”? I think they are. So please don’t act all self-righteous when we try to do the same to you guys. Don’t talk to us like we’re children, like we don’t see that there are separate rules for different people and most of all don’t expect us to swallow your tired philosophy. Because when the pudding hits the fan, the LEO’s are the most blatant abusers of “doing their best to manipulate the system so they don’t face the consequences of their actions”. So do me a favor, why don’t you take your naïve opinion and cram it....with walnuts.

Off your meds again I see.



....truth hurts huh?

- I'm still waiting for the typical internet, tin-foil ranting to be done with. When you want to talk reality, let me know.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:37:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Of course you realize that the same system of laws that allows the police to issue speeding tickets, also allows someone charged with speeding to request a jury trial and do everything that the law allows them to do to demonstrate their innocence. Why is the law only good when it's in the police favor?

- this has nothing to do with something being in the police's favor. Its about someone getting popped for doing something wrong then doing their best to manipulate the system so they dont face the consiquences of their actions.

If someone is truely innocent, then try for a jury trial. I'm all for th truely innocent succesfully fighting charges against them. If you are guilty on the other hand.........



So are you saying that you never speed? Every been pulled over and showed your badge or mentioned you were an LEO? That's manipulating the system as well. My brother who is an LEO has the same prick attitude that you have. He says if you don't want to get pulled over then don't do anything wrong, yet he gets out of a ticket every time he gets pulled over simply because he is an LEO. It's easy to be a prick and condemn people for not following the law when you are above the law.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:38:33 AM EDT
Novel idea.... Drive the speed limit like you are supposed to.. Then you wont have a ticket to try and get out of.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:38:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:39:48 AM EDT by lordtrader]
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:40:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:41:52 AM EDT by fish223]

Originally Posted By VBC:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I've found that the second best way to get out of a speeding ticket (the first being not getting caught speeding) is to demonstrate politeness to the officer/deputy/trooper pulling me over.



On top of that, I've heard a lot of cops say if you tell them an excuse they've never heard before, then they'll let you go.




In response to "Sir, Do you know why I pulled you over?", my dad responded "you wanted to know the score of the Yankee game?", and was sent on his way by a laughing officer.
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