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Posted: 12/12/2005 1:20:33 PM EDT
Okay, we all hear how cool the F22 is and that it will likely even "out cool" the superbug

What cool stuff do we know about the JSF? Besides the obvious VTOL/VSTOL versions and such. Will it be ginsu cool? Can it cut an aluminum can in half and still slice tomatoes?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:23:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:33:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 1:34:36 PM EDT by Mr45auto]
can it supercruise? Is it stealthy? Is it intended as air superiority or multirole? We never really hear much about it. I guess it isnt as sexy.


Yes I could look up the information myself but the opinions and guesses are much more fun to read than specs.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:36:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
can it supercruise? Don't think so. Is it stealthy? More so than a 747 (designed with stealth in mind, but didn't go out of its way for it) Is it intended as air superiority or multirole? Multirole. Think F-16 vs F-15. We never really hear much about it. I guess it isnt as sexy. The real work rarely is.



Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:56:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
can it supercruise?


No


Is it stealthy?

Yes, though I am unsure as how steathly it is compared to the Raptor.



Is it intended as air superiority or multirole?

Multi-role - think F-16 replacement

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:08:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:11:11 PM EDT
Will it get the gee whiz neato passive radar/supercomputer treatment too or is it more dependant on other assets like AEGIS/AWACS ?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:12:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 6:19:25 PM EDT by AeroE]
Prolly 'bout a match 4 bird, turn on a dime, superdupercrooze sipping 80 gph (Imperial), AI, all aspect IRST, tailhook at both ends providing built in holdbacks for high performance VTO's (kind of like standing on the brakes while you rev yer hotrod before peeling out), -40 dBsm on the beam (all frequencies from daylight to dark) [BTW, that's smaller than a gnat's nuts on the Animal RCS Scale], a place to stow a $800 (1984 dollars) hammer, boolit proof winders, a microwave oven up front, and GRMS radier fer talkin'.

Teh shiznit.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:14:04 PM EDT
Consider this thread tagged.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:15:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Prolly 'bout a match 4 bird, turn on a dime, superdupercrooze sipping 80 gph (Imperial), AI, all aspect IRST, tailhook at both ends providing built in holdbacks for high performance VTO's (kind of like standing on the brakes while you rev yer hotrod before peeling out), -40 dBsm on the beam (all frequencies from daylight to dark), a place to stow a $800 (1984 dollars) hammer, boolit proof winders, a microwave oven up front, and GRMS radier fer talkin'.

Teh shiznit.




Rendered obsolete before production by the X45 UCAV?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:19:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Prolly 'bout a match 4 bird, turn on a dime, superdupercrooze sipping 80 gph (Imperial), AI, all aspect IRST, tailhook at both ends providing built in holdbacks for high performance VTO's (kind of like standing on the brakes while you rev yer hotrod before peeling out), -40 dBsm on the beam (all frequencies from daylight to dark), a place to stow a $800 (1984 dollars) hammer, boolit proof winders, a microwave oven up front, and GRMS radier fer talkin'.

Teh shiznit.




Rendered obsolete before production by the X45 UCAV?



+1
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:19:52 PM EDT
F-35s been designed to fit the needs of each of our military branches...various configurations...lower cost....its not AS stealthy as the F-22, but its pretty damn good.....its a good machine...it beat out the X-32 aircraft for the contracts.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:19:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Prolly 'bout a match 4 bird, turn on a dime, superdupercrooze sipping 80 gph (Imperial), AI, all aspect IRST, tailhook at both ends providing built in holdbacks for high performance VTO's (kind of like standing on the brakes while you rev yer hotrod before peeling out), -40 dBsm on the beam (all frequencies from daylight to dark), a place to stow a $800 (1984 dollars) hammer, boolit proof winders, a microwave oven up front, and GRMS radier fer talkin'.

Teh shiznit.




Rendered obsolete before production by the X45 UCAV?



Not hardly; I think there are a bunch of loons from the government and the company working on that job. There are signs emerging that they have a clue about what they want to build, but that could likely be a fleeting promise.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:26:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Will it get the gee whiz neato passive radar/supercomputer treatment too or is it more dependant on other assets like AEGIS/AWACS ?



It's a similar unit though not as capable as the F-22s (remember they are on a budget). It uses the same R/T module technology but not as many units. FYI I had worked on the F-22 Radar, but the JSF Radar project was in a separate building.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:38:55 PM EDT
It's the shit.

Not as good as the Raptor... But better than everything else flying.

Including Andy's Eurofighter.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:54:04 PM EDT
Someone I know in the industry told me all the R&D guys were goose-pimplly with the idea of a big empty space right behind the pilot with a drive shaft coming straight from the engine.

I had no idea what he meant. He explained further that not all versions will have the lift fan. They're dreaming about putting an energy weapon back there!

Now that would make it one cool plane! Fly through the area zapping things with its laser!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:56:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
It's the shit.

Not as good as the Raptor... But better than everything else flying.

Including Andy's Eurofighter.




Eurofighters a sad story...I like the design though, looks cool
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:57:55 PM EDT
next wave is all pilotless stuff driven by kids trained on xbox 360's and their decendants and competitors...

where lag is an issue they will just stand off in awac like flying saucers....
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:00:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shooter_Doug:
Someone I know in the industry told me all the R&D guys were goose-pimplly with the idea of a big empty space right behind the pilot with a drive shaft coming straight from the engine.

I had no idea what he meant. He explained further that not all versions will have the lift fan. They're dreaming about putting an energy weapon back there!

Now that would make it one cool plane! Fly through the area zapping things with its laser!



That would be wrong. Behind the cockpit is where the number one fuel cell is housed, which was removed to accomadate the VTOL versions.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:28:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Will it get the gee whiz neato passive radar/supercomputer treatment too or is it more dependant on other assets like AEGIS/AWACS ?



It's a similar unit though not as capable as the F-22s (remember they are on a budget). It uses the same R/T module technology but not as many units. FYI I had worked on the F-22 Radar, but the JSF Radar project was in a separate building.



Is the F-35 Radar LPI also?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:54:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:47:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Will it get the gee whiz neato passive radar/supercomputer treatment too or is it more dependant on other assets like AEGIS/AWACS ?



It's a similar unit though not as capable as the F-22s (remember they are on a budget). It uses the same R/T module technology but not as many units. FYI I had worked on the F-22 Radar, but the JSF Radar project was in a separate building.



Is the F-35 Radar LPI also?



Even the radar altimeter in the F-35 is LPI!

And it has an IRST system....EOTS!

Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS)
The same joint venture, with Lockheed Martin in the lead role, is developing the electro-optical targeting system (EOTS). EOTS will provide extended-range detection and precision targeting of ground threats plus long-range detection of air-to-air threats. EOTS combines passive air-to-air detection and track with long-range laser designation and ranging of air and ground targets.


http://www.northropgrumman.com/paris2005/paris2005_programs/f35_mss.html



someone definitly did their homework
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:57:24 PM EDT
What I have yet to find out about the JSF is it's AA capability. As the F-16 ages, it's loosing agility due to increased weight (too bad Agile Falcon never got green-lighted), but it's still not bad. How agile is/will the JSF be in comparison?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:59:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:10:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
What I have yet to find out about the JSF is it's AA capability. As the F-16 ages, it's loosing agility due to increased weight (too bad Agile Falcon never got green-lighted), but it's still not bad. How agile is/will the JSF be in comparison?



F-35 can flip out like a ninja.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:24:41 PM EDT
You know, all this technology is really cool, but I still have not seen a better wat to get a bunch of ROPER's out of a Mosque or small building - other than some Marines getting boots dirty.

Just a thought..........

It still comes down to the very smallest of details....

CMOS
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:23:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CMOS:
You know, all this technology is really cool, but I still have not seen a better wat to get a bunch of ROPER's out of a Mosque or small building - other than some Marines getting boots dirty.

Just a thought..........

It still comes down to the very smallest of details....

CMOS



Nuke payload, problem solved.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:43:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VTwin60:

Originally Posted By Shooter_Doug:
Someone I know in the industry told me all the R&D guys were goose-pimplly with the idea of a big empty space right behind the pilot with a drive shaft coming straight from the engine.

I had no idea what he meant. He explained further that not all versions will have the lift fan. They're dreaming about putting an energy weapon back there!

Now that would make it one cool plane! Fly through the area zapping things with its laser!



That would be wrong. Behind the cockpit is where the number one fuel cell is housed, which was removed to accomadate the VTOL versions.

And that fuel cell will be removed and replaced with the laser when it is ready. They paid a big weight premium for having all the engines with the drive shaft, rather than just the VTOL ones, they arent going to waste it.

Kharn
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:49:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Okay, we all hear how cool the F22 is and that it will likely even "out cool" the superbug

What cool stuff do we know about the JSF? Besides the obvious VTOL/VSTOL versions and such. Will it be ginsu cool? Can it cut an aluminum can in half and still slice tomatoes?



The F-18 Super Hornet will replace both the JSF and the F-22 and all of their variants.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:55:08 AM EDT
The F-35 will be to the F-22 what the F-16 has been to the F-15......a complimentary workhorse that can do a bit of everything, but with a reduced pricetag and with a bit less capability in some areas than an F-22.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:02:27 AM EDT
Ask not what the JSF can do, but what we can do with the JSF. We can sell the JSF to lesser nations with puny war budgets.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:03:14 AM EDT
... Two different missions. Not apples to oranges.

... Folks like to dog-breath our beloved SuperHornet - but she is as capable now, and for the foreseeable future, as any fighter fielded worldwide.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:25:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
Ask not what the JSF can do, but what we can do with the JSF. We can sell the JSF to lesser nations with puny war budgets.



Ask not what the JSF can do, but what the F-18 Super Hornet will replace next
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:01:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:07:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Two different missions. Not apples to oranges.

... Folks like to dog-breath our beloved SuperHornet - but she is as capable now, and for the foreseeable future, as any fighter fielded worldwide.



ANY fighter fielded worldwide?

I can name a couple off the top of my head that could fly rings around it literally!



Yeah, well can they fly rings around it while doing ASW, EW, tanker, COD, SAR, CAS, AA,....well everything...
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 9:35:05 AM EDT
As an armchair engineer it looks like the F-35 would pr'olly have a limited ability to supercruise.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 9:39:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CMOS:
You know, all this technology is really cool, but I still have not seen a better wat to get a bunch of ROPER's out of a Mosque or small building - other than some Marines getting boots dirty.

Just a thought..........

It still comes down to the very smallest of details....

CMOS



The JSF will replace the maintenance-heavy and limited capacity Harrier on our Amphib decks; so the Marines get a huge jump in CAS capability when operating independently of the carrier fleet.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 9:59:35 AM EDT

With all the talk of the F22, what can the JSF do?


Hover.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:18:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Two different missions. Not apples to oranges.

... Folks like to dog-breath our beloved SuperHornet - but she is as capable now, and for the foreseeable future, as any fighter fielded worldwide.



ANY fighter fielded worldwide?

I can name a couple off the top of my head that could fly rings around it literally!



Agreed. I think Winston's been drinking a little too much of the corporate Kool-Aid.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:27:52 AM EDT
Do we field an off-boresight sraam yet? I wonder if the raptor or jsf will incorporate such a thing...
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:05:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 12:06:16 PM EDT by LWilde]

"From the front, the F/A-22's signature is -40dBsm (the size of a marble) while the F-35's is -30 dBsm (the size of a golf ball). The F-35 is said to have a small area of vulnerability from the rear because engineers reduced cost by not designing a radar blocker for the engine exhaust."

Aviation Week & Space Technology; 11/14/2005, page 27



Interesting numbers. While any good aero and LO engineer can do some napkin calculations and provide them to Aviation Leak...I have a hunch that these numbers are not from a reliable government source.

Stealth technology is now one of our most closely guarded secrets...on all applications. The numbers quoted are VERY tiny. Additionally, there is no detail provided as to radar types, position of the aircraft in the anechoic chamber, etc. I can assure you that the radar cross seciton or "signature" varies greatly with roll, pitch and yaw axes variations with respect to the radar.

Anyway...both are very small and good planes. We ought to buy lots of them....AFTER we buy new rifles, radios, pistols, armor, boots, MREs and ammo for the grunts.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:13:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
It will do most of the stuff the F-22 can do for a fraction of the price....

ANdy



Remains to be seen if that fraction will be 30% or 110%...

Of course, we will never be able to afford more than a handful before the program is cancelled anyway. Sorta like all those Comanches we got for the billions we spent...oh yeah, we didn't get anything for all that money. Never mind.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:15:27 PM EDT
But on a C-17 you can get up, stretch your legs, hit the lavatory for a dump, spend some time in the bunk, then go to the galley for some coffee and hot food.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:19:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
Do we field an off-boresight sraam yet? I wonder if the raptor or jsf will incorporate such a thing...


Yes, AIM-9X
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:21:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Okay, we all hear how cool the F22 is and that it will likely even "out cool" the superbug

What cool stuff do we know about the JSF? Besides the obvious VTOL/VSTOL versions and such. Will it be ginsu cool? Can it cut an aluminum can in half and still slice tomatoes?



The F-18 Super Hornet will replace both the JSF and the F-22 and all of their variants.


Welcome to the 1990s!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:25:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 12:26:46 PM EDT by ArmedAggie]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Two different missions. Not apples to oranges.

... Folks like to dog-breath our beloved SuperHornet - but she is as capable now, and for the foreseeable future, as any fighter fielded worldwide.



ANY fighter fielded worldwide?

I can name a couple off the top of my head that could fly rings around it literally!



As one of our beloved old-school Southern comedians said once, "Any country that has not yet mastered the flush toilet...their radar probably doesn't work too well."

I've seen the painted footprint aiming devices in thepublic restrooms like he was referring to.

The counter to that observation on Soviet/Russian technology is the AK. Simple, indestructable and utterly reliable.
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