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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:49:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 9:23:40 AM EDT by Punani]
Yesterday, (Sunday) some guy tried to handprop his cherokee at the self-serve pump.

Handbrakes not working: Check.
Nobody in the plane: Check.
Mags: On.
Mixture: Rich.
Throttle: 75% open.
Prop away!

So it starts, at about 1800-2000 rpm, starts rolling fast, towards pilot, at this point running in front of aircraft. Finally, the plane comes to a stop, when the prop comes down on a concrete/steel pilon, designed to protect the fuel pump. The prop, with spinner and flywheel still attached, came of, and flew about 150 to 200 yards, landing in the roof of a nearby hangar.


Note the top of the crankcase missing.


The ripples behind the engine cowl indicate a warped firewall, and even more noticeable is the windshield that popped out of the frame. For some reason, the door won't shut. I wonder why...


That'll buff right out!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:51:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:53:09 AM EDT
Well if he owns a plane, he can afford to fix it
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:54:04 AM EDT
Huh?!?!?!


WOW!!!




Travis
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:54:37 AM EDT
He's the only one at the airport "professional enough" to hand-prop a Cherokee.

There's no reason on earth that should have been a one-person endeavor.

Asshat.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:55:13 AM EDT
Scratch one Cherokee
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:55:46 AM EDT
Oops.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:57:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Well if he owns a plane, he can afford to fix it



he could also aford a real prop...
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:02:44 AM EDT
Reason number 87 I won't hand prop a plane.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:13:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 7:14:39 AM EDT by pv74]

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Well if he owns a plane, he can afford to fix it



Their are ways to make an airplane affordable.....

Hell...my father is not a rich man, is semi retired, owns a Belanca Decathlon... and drives a 20 year old car. Gotta have priorities...

Hope that guys insurance was paid up, as I doubt that will buff out..

Wonder if that totaled it, bending the firewall and all that...
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:16:59 AM EDT
Some guy here at our airport lost control of his airplane the same way last year. It ran around into a couple othe planes before it hit a fence.
Stupid local PD closed the whole airport while we had a load up and they had to fly to Vandenburg. What a fuck up.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:17:40 AM EDT
I was thinking maybe a guy with no hands and bloody stumps based on the thread title. Am I a sick and twisted individual if I am a teeny, tiny bit disappointed?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:21:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fish223:
I was thinking maybe a guy with no hands and bloody stumps based on the thread title. Am I a sick and twisted individual if I am a teeny, tiny bit disappointed?



No, he was unhurt. Except for his ego, I guess.
He was starting at the self serve, to taxi to the FBO to pick uo his G/F.
So the rented a car to get home

No, the insurance was not paid up: he had none.

The prop is still on the roof of the hangar, I'll see if I can sneak out and get a picture of it later on today
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:21:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Reason number 87 I won't hand prop a plane.



The first 86 have to do with bodily harm and mutilation, right?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:23:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Reason number 87 I won't hand prop a plane.



The first 86 have to do with bodily harm and mutilation, right?



For some reason they do rank fairly high.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:28:32 AM EDT

Dang. Coulda been a Darwin winner. Better luck next time!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:35:10 AM EDT
My Dad taught me how to swing a prop on an Aeronca Champ. He emphasized visualing checking the brake cables when you call "Brakes" and then (with the mags off) giving a push on the prop hub to ensure the airplane won't roll.

One would think a licensed pilot would be able to figure out what would happen in this situation.

Now he gets to pay what Dave Ramsey calls the "Stupid Tax."
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:42:58 AM EDT
At least it didn't get too far away as happened here....

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:44:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasEd:
At least it didn't get too far away as happened here....

users.waymark.net/0002596-1/pics/piper.jpg

That picture always cracks me up!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:46:19 AM EDT
Why does aviation attract SO MANY STUPID MOTHER FUCKERS?



They should have some sort of common sense and intelligence filter to keep these morons away from aircraft.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:48:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
Why does aviation attract SO MANY STUPID MOTHER FUCKERS?



They should have some sort of common sense and intelligence filter to keep these morons away from aircraft.


The population of morons is equally distributed among all pursuits ... flying, shooting, bowling, checkers ... you name it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:55:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:

Originally Posted By fish223:
I was thinking maybe a guy with no hands and bloody stumps based on the thread title. Am I a sick and twisted individual if I am a teeny, tiny bit disappointed?



No, he was unhurt. Except for his ego, I guess.
He was starting at the self serve, to taxi to the FBO to pick uo his G/F.
So the rented a car to get home

No, the insurance was not paid up: he had none.

The prop is still on the roof of the hangar, I'll see if I can sneak out and get a picture of it later on today



why don't they require insurance for planes like they do cars?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:55:34 AM EDT
The same type of person also looks down a gun barrel to "see if it's loaded". Natural selection has not been able to reap them yet.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:17:13 AM EDT
Why would someone handprop a Cherokee anyways?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:28:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
Why does aviation attract SO MANY STUPID MOTHER FUCKERS?



They should have some sort of common sense and intelligence filter to keep these morons away from aircraft.




Amazingly, a great many are filtered out, but enough get through. The requirements to obtain a license meet a minimum standard of excellence in the overall scheme of flying skills and it's impossible for an examiner to catch the candidates that exercise poor judgement in isolated cases, such as hand propping without adequate preparation.

The worst thing about these hand propping accidents is the collateral damage to other airplanes, buildings, cars, and sometimes bystanders.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:32:38 AM EDT
the very fact that he is hand propping an airplane that has an electrical system, (at least as ceritified) an adequate starter, and not a particularly hard engine to start (not fuel injected as I recall, looks like a 140 or 160), says volumes about his attitude toward maintanance and upkeep. Better he destroyed it on the ground than kill someone in a mid-air or a crash.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:37:53 AM EDT
So!.........

We let "Moms" drive vans full of kids down the highways at 85mph while cutting people off, eating and talking on the telephone.

It's our fault.........we took the "Darwin Principle" out of everyday life long ago.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:22:02 AM EDT
The plane is in nasty condition. Interior molded, fuselage looks like it's painted with a leafbower.

Two more pictures:





I've seen some funny shit at this airport, but this beats everything!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:25:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 9:27:30 AM EDT by sherm8404]
[redforman]Dumbass![redforman]


ETA...that last pic?


That prop should be permenantlyattached to the building. Alnong with a plaque detailing the whole event for all to read.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:27:11 AM EDT
If they're just going to throw away the prop, I'll take it to hang on the wall.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:47:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
The plane is in nasty condition. Interior molded, fuselage looks like it's painted with a leafbower.
Two more pictures:
www.referenceonly.com/prop/4401traj%20(Medium).JPG
www.referenceonly.com/prop/IMG_4400%20(Medium).JPG
I've seen some funny shit at this airport, but this beats everything!


Holy Sh!t
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:59:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
The plane is in nasty condition. Interior molded, fuselage looks like it's painted with a leafbower.

Two more pictures:

www.referenceonly.com/prop/4401traj%20(Medium).JPG

www.referenceonly.com/prop/IMG_4400%20(Medium).JPG

I've seen some funny shit at this airport, but this beats everything!




Aren't aircraft suppose to undergo phase inspections, and other types of inspections, and have repairs done by qualified A&P mechanics? Where are the aircraft maintenance logs?

I think that the FAA might just pull his certs, and do some damage to the mech that signed off on the aircraft...
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:06:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 12:06:42 PM EDT by Punani]
Somehow they make it to the skies!
with or without annual inspections signed off


Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By Punani:
The plane is in nasty condition. Interior molded, fuselage looks like it's painted with a leafbower.

Two more pictures:

www.referenceonly.com/prop/4401traj%20(Medium).JPG

www.referenceonly.com/prop/IMG_4400%20(Medium).JPG

I've seen some funny shit at this airport, but this beats everything!




Aren't aircraft suppose to undergo phase inspections, and other types of inspections, and have repairs done by qualified A&P mechanics? Where are the aircraft maintenance logs?

I think that the FAA might just pull his certs, and do some damage to the mech that signed off on the aircraft...

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:51:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
The plane is in nasty condition. Interior molded, fuselage looks like it's painted with a leafbower.

Two more pictures:

www.referenceonly.com/prop/4401traj%20(Medium).JPG

www.referenceonly.com/prop/IMG_4400%20(Medium).JPG

I've seen some funny shit at this airport, but this beats everything!



I love the red dotted line indicating hte trajectory! Classic! You need to print that out on 8x10 glossy paper and pin it up in the FBO!!!

Thanks, punani!

... still chuckling ...
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:57:24 PM EDT
hand propping. Sounds like somthing involving lube and a towel.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:12:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
I've seen some funny shit at this airport, but this beats everything!



It's Venice Island Dan. What else do you expect there? I mean come on! Painted pigs? LOL
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:19:32 PM EDT
I saw that picture of the trajectory, and my first thought was that someone had (for some reason) taken a bunch of old wind socks and cut the pointy ends off and strung them toghether to cordon off the scene, and a strong wind had gotten ahold of the assembly. the shading is about right too, light on top and dark underneath.

I agree, the prop should be left up there (tie it down) as a memorial to stupidity.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:25:01 PM EDT
There is nothing inherently dangerous about handpropping, but dumbfucks should definitely refrain from doing so. Last time I propped a plane, I chocked the wheels, locked the brakes, left it tied down, and made sure my wife knew how to kill the engine. I also was damn sure not the set the friggin' throttle at 75%

I had run the battery down by leaving the master switch on.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:30:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
Why does aviation attract SO MANY STUPID MOTHER FUCKERS?



They should have some sort of common sense and intelligence filter to keep these morons away from aircraft.




In my experience, pilots are often some of the dumbest people on the planet. Although, I sometimes think that maybe they are the cream of the crop and we are doomed as a species. I have seen 12,000Hr pilots trying to warm up an engine in 20 degree F weather with the cowl flaps open because the checklist says so. Just dense.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:36:33 PM EDT
There is nothing inherently dangerous about handpropping, but dumbfucks should definitely refrain from doing so. Last time I propped a plane, I chocked the wheels, locked the brakes, left it tied down, and made sure my wife knew how to kill the engine. I also was damn sure not the set the friggin' throttle at 75%

I had run the battery down by leaving the master switch on.


the dumbf--ks part is what makes it inherently dangerous. I'm with you , I would prop my C-140 with the tailwheel still tied down, mains chocked, and someone IN the cabin. The someone was mainly so that a person not bleeding to death could make the emergency call if I screwed up.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:36:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By Punani:
The plane is in nasty condition. Interior molded, fuselage looks like it's painted with a leafbower.

Two more pictures:

www.referenceonly.com/prop/4401traj%20(Medium).JPG

www.referenceonly.com/prop/IMG_4400%20(Medium).JPG

I've seen some funny shit at this airport, but this beats everything!




Aren't aircraft suppose to undergo phase inspections, and other types of inspections, and have repairs done by qualified A&P mechanics? Where are the aircraft maintenance logs?

I think that the FAA might just pull his certs, and do some damage to the mech that signed off on the aircraft...



It will not even be investigated if he was only going to park. Unless someone is injured or the damage occured if flight was intended they will probably be too busy.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:40:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
hand propping. Sounds like somthing involving lube and a towel.



The largest engine I have hand propped is a 540 cubic inch fuel injected Lycoming with a three bladed prop. Nasty, just nasty.

We had a Cassut racer that had an O-200 with a Quizinart looking prop and high compression pistons that only a couple of us could start. You would always count your fingers after that!

BTW, anyone who thinks hand starting is abnormal and dangerous does not belong around aircraft. If you are too scared to start the damn thing you surely don't belong airborne in it! Many aircraft don't even have electrical systems and starters. It is just normal. Now that some are too stupid to do it safely is not open to debate.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:45:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Planerench:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
hand propping. Sounds like somthing involving lube and a towel.



The largest engine I have hand propped is a 540 cubic inch fuel injected Lycoming with a three bladed prop. Nasty, just nasty.

We had a Cassut racer that had an O-200 with a Quizinart looking prop and high compression pistons that only a couple of us could start. You would always count your fingers after that!

BTW, anyone who thinks hand starting is abnormal and dangerous does not belong around aircraft. If you are too scared to start the damn thing you surely don't belong airborne in it! Many aircraft don't even have electrical systems and starters. It is just normal. Now that some are too stupid to do it safely is not open to debate.



Would you give a quick lesson in hand propping? Please?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:48:00 PM EDT
was he planning on washing the windows of that bird??
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:09:24 PM EDT
Hand propping can be done quite easily and safely, but many don't know how to do it and many arent taught how to do it properly. For all of those who say it shouldnt be done and that is unsafe, well its something that needs to be learned. Ive had on several ocasions with me C-150 and my dads C-195, when it was necessary. One thing is that when you are by yourself, keep your tail wheel tied off with a knowt that is easy to undo quickly (like a slip knot, the loop knot). Point your aircraft in a direction away from people. Im too tired to type the rest. Just google it.

RemMan
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:15:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CSM:

Originally Posted By Planerench:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
hand propping. Sounds like somthing involving lube and a towel.



The largest engine I have hand propped is a 540 cubic inch fuel injected Lycoming with a three bladed prop. Nasty, just nasty.

We had a Cassut racer that had an O-200 with a Quizinart looking prop and high compression pistons that only a couple of us could start. You would always count your fingers after that!

BTW, anyone who thinks hand starting is abnormal and dangerous does not belong around aircraft. If you are too scared to start the damn thing you surely don't belong airborne in it! Many aircraft don't even have electrical systems and starters. It is just normal. Now that some are too stupid to do it safely is not open to debate.



Would you give a quick lesson in hand propping? Please?



You just need to plan ahead and have at least SOME contingencies. Just like the simple gun handling rules, you need to violate more than one precaution to screw up hand starting.

1) Aircraft must be secured somehow. In several ways if possible.

2) You must have good footing. This seems simple but often inclement weather is the cause for hand starting in the first place.

3) The engine and propeller have to be in proper time. If the prop is indexed to come through top center at a clock position where you have no leverage don't even try to hand start.

4) After the aircraft engine controls are set for start, turn off the fuel valve! (unless starting a fuel injected engine) this will give you around a minute to get in and behind the controls but if the throttle is open too far it will only give a few seconds of WOT power. The aircraft is not likely to get airborne this way should the provisions of step 1 fail.

5) Have someone qualified at the controls if possible. If no qualified person is available NO ONE should be in the aircraft. Imagine your girl friend screaming all the way to the crash site without you!

6) The specific steps of engine control settings, priming etc are too numerous to list as the condition of the engine will not always be the same ie, hot start, flooded, cold, starter engaged etc so I can't give all the specifics.

7) Never prop while wearing rings on your fingers. It can scratch the paint. (inside joke)

8) ALWAYS expect the engine to start! This one will get you if you miss it!

9) Pull the prop down and swing your leg from front to back to help your body momentum to travel away from the prop. If you should slip, you want to land away from the arch of the propeller.

10) Maintain contact with the person at the controls.

That is a good start.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:58:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 3:59:05 AM EDT by FB41]
What a nut job! I'll bet his GF won't come near a plane now!

Handpropping isn't at all dangerous if you follow the rules and GET TRAINED HOW! Way back when I was in flight training I insisted on getting trained how to prop a plane, because you never know when you'll need the technique. It came in real handy when the battery was stolen out of an old 182 while I was in the Bahamas. BTW- propping a 182 can be a bitch!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:14:38 AM EDT
Thanks Planewrench!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:24:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:28:40 AM EDT by Planerench]

Originally Posted By FB41:
What a nut job! I'll bet his GF won't come near a plane now!

Handpropping isn't at all dangerous if you follow the rules and GET TRAINED HOW! Way back when I was in flight training I insisted on getting trained how to prop a plane, because you never know when you'll need the technique. It came in real handy when the battery was stolen out of an old 182 while I was in the Bahamas. BTW- propping a 182 can be a bitch!



Two primes, switch cold, 8 blades, switch hot. Flip, Pop, Purrrrr. Done it dozens of times. The trick is to get the engine set to start, including enough blades slowly to disperse the prime, so you look really cool when it starts the first fast flip. If you prime and immediately start fast flips you are wasting at least the first few blades on fuel distribution. Do the first full turn (720 degrees of rotation) slowly and cautiously, switch cold. Then, on a cold engine, the first flip will more than likely be a successful light off.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:17:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
Why does aviation attract SO MANY STUPID MOTHER FUCKERS?



They should have some sort of common sense and intelligence filter to keep these morons away from aircraft.




They do. It's called crashing. One of my instructors, (who I refused to fly with after the first "lesson"), was showing his girlfriend that you could "glide" a Cessna on the updrafts in the Tehachapi Mountains. He found out that sometimes mountains are higher than the updrafts and faster than you can start the engine.

We also get a few guys a year that try to fly out of Big Bear at a sea level weight on board. Wull, I flew in her at that weight. 8,000 feet elevation and 80 degrees is a little less dense than Sea Level and 65 degrees.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:26:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 9:33:01 AM EDT by Torf]

Originally Posted By hanau:

Originally Posted By Punani:

Originally Posted By fish223:
I was thinking maybe a guy with no hands and bloody stumps based on the thread title. Am I a sick and twisted individual if I am a teeny, tiny bit disappointed?



No, he was unhurt. Except for his ego, I guess.
He was starting at the self serve, to taxi to the FBO to pick uo his G/F.
So the rented a car to get home

No, the insurance was not paid up: he had none.

The prop is still on the roof of the hangar, I'll see if I can sneak out and get a picture of it later on today



why don't they require insurance for planes like they do cars?



You aren't required to pay for collision or comprehensive in your car insurance. Only liability.
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