Quoted: Good post Quien. A lot of these guys are former military and only got out because they can use the same skillset, in a similar job, and make $200,000 a year instead of $40,000. They still fight on the side of the coalition. Now, if an SF soldier sold his services to AlQaeda (not that one would!) he would be a mercenary, and a traitor.

I wish!

the money is good, but being away from home really, REALLY sucks when you dont have the "family" of the Corps around you. we got somepretty good treatment from the military seeing as how we were all former or reserve .mil but its just not the same. as a Marine i know i can get on the hook and get air, arty, another squad, whatever i need.  you dont really have that safety blanket contracting.

Go rent Dogs of War.

Quoted: Go rent Dogs of War.

Pretty good movie, never really hear anyone talk about here

Quoted: As a person that's in charge of some of these guys you casually call "mercenaries,"  I find the use of that word pretty ignorant.  Do an internet search for mercenary and you'll get a bunch of websites about an xbox game and a bunch of left wing websites bashing the US. I can't speak for all the PSD companies running around this country (I think there are 85+)  Some of these PSD groups work for companies like Bechtel, Lucent, etc, but others are contracted by the US government.   I can talk about the government PSD guys, because I'm actually here doing just that. These are top tier folks, every last one of them (Blackwater, DynCorp, and Triple Canopy.)  They are former operators, infantry, SWAT, former federal agents, all strictly screened by their company and overseen by Uncle Sam.  Don't lump these guys, that have served their country with distinction in the past, and continue to serve at great personal risk to their lives, with some soldier of fortune schmuck running around Africa working for whoever will hire him. They continue to serve this country with distinction but are looked down upon because they get paid more.  Maybe if this country's Armed Forces hadn't been cripled by downsizing after the cold war, the use of contractors wouldn't be necessary.  If that was the case I guarantee most of these guys would still be wearing camouflage. ETA:  Mercenary: A mercenary is a soldier who fights, or engages in warfare primarily for private gain, usually with little regard for ideological, national or political considerations. However, when the term is used to refer to a soldier in a regular national army, it is usually considered an insult, epithet or pejorative.

Quien,  Sounds like you, like myself have been on the receiving end of some flack from the troops about being a "rich contractor"
If the guy is an ass and trying to be an ass i just wave him off and drive on.
If he seems like an OK guy i just remind him the he has a career, I have a job.
I dint get retirement, educations benefits, on and on..wakes them up pretty quick.
I also mention that i have 17 years experience in my field so yeah I am worth more than a guy starting out. When he has 17 years in the service he will make more too.

Last time I worked out of a US base we( the contractors) could not even get medical treatment on post. it was local meds or nothing. Life,limb or eye site. only way we could get treatment on post.

Now before you go throwing that  word ignorant around lets go to the source.

International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries, 4 December 1989.

Article 1

For the purposes of the present Convention,

1.A mercenary is any person who:

(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;

(b) Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar rank and functions in the armed forces of that party;

(c) Is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;

(d) Is not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict; and

(e) Has not been sent by a State which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

2.A mercenary is also any person who, in any other situation:

(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad for the purpose of participating in a concerted act of violence
aimed at :

(i) Overthrowing a Government or otherwise undermining the constitutional order of a State; or

(ii) Undermining the territorial integrity of a State;

(b) Is motivated to take part therein essentially by the desire for significant private gain and is prompted by the promise or payment of material compensation;

(c) Is neither a national nor a resident of the State against which such an act is directed;

(d) Has not been sent by a State on official duty; and

(e) Is not a member of the armed forces of the State on whose territory the act is undertaken.

There is the definition of mercenary according to international law. not according to xbox.

If you want to see the entire document go here

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/530?OpenDocument

Now I agree that what you and I do is supported by the US government.,and is necessary.
but lets look at the definition.

Were you recruited to go to an armed conflict?

Did you take the job because of the pay? ( I will allow that money may not be the only reason you took it, but as I said you aint there for the view)

Are you a national of the conflict area? do you live in the conflict territory?

Are you a member of the armed forces party to the conflict?

Were you sent by a third party to the conflict as a MEMBER of the armed forces?

Are you beginning to get the drift?


Quien, I have worked for DYNCORP, and may again they have express interest when I return to the US. You seem like a good guy Hell I might know you. but your response was based on emotions, and I was dealing in fact. That the term "mercenary" insults you.. well how close are you to the definition of law that if the US (Imposable) lost we would be sitting in The Haig defending ourselves from.

That was  my point to start with. In the 60's 70's when nation states (Belgium, France, UK...) hired experienced "contractors" to do specialized work in Africa The US through the UN had it outlawed.
Jump ahead 20 years and when it is in the interest of the US to do the same thing, all is well

Good luck, stay safe, and perhaps I can buy you a beer someday

NOI

Quien is DSS. I wouldnt say that unless he had posted that info openly in the forums, either.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So how much do guys with prior special military training get to work for someone like blackwater?  ie former rangers, seals, recon, etc. Starting is around $120k a year. Talked to a former Marine who is working for Aegis Security here, doing PSD and he said he was making $145k a year. 3mos on, 1mo off. We were like, goddamn. Thats a lot nicer than $35k a year and possibly 6mos on, 2wks off and then 6mos again....depending on when your leave is. The problem with the 3 on 1 off deal is that you will pay US tax if you are in the US one month out of four. kind of cuts down on the incentive. One of the major advantages to working out of the US is the tax free money. It is often played up by recruiters. Thing is you have to be out of the US 330 out of 360 days. they may forget to tell you this. Not a problem if you know up front.  but if you think you are going to be tax exempt AND be in the US 3 mos a year.... Just go visit a lot of the places you always wanted to. Some of the guys have bought places around. Bulgaria is still cheep. As to being paid in local script, Its called Euros and last I looked it is 1 to 1.20 US , yeah I can live with that. NOI

Course, it doesnt really matter either.  You only get tax-free on the first 85k anyway?

So theres still 60k you're gettin taxed.

Quoted: As a person that's in charge of some of these guys you casually call "mercenaries,"  I find the use of that word pretty ignorant.  Do an internet search for mercenary and you'll get a bunch of websites about an xbox game and a bunch of left wing websites bashing the US. I can't speak for all the PSD companies running around this country (I think there are 85+)  Some of these PSD groups work for companies like Bechtel, Lucent, etc, but others are contracted by the US government.   I can talk about the government PSD guys, because I'm actually here doing just that. These are top tier folks, every last one of them (Blackwater, DynCorp, and Triple Canopy.)  They are former operators, infantry, SWAT, former federal agents, all strictly screened by their company and overseen by Uncle Sam.  Don't lump these guys, that have served their country with distinction in the past, and continue to serve at great personal risk to their lives, with some soldier of fortune schmuck running around Africa working for whoever will hire him. They continue to serve this country with distinction but are looked down upon because they get paid more.  Maybe if this country's Armed Forces hadn't been cripled by downsizing after the cold war, the use of contractors wouldn't be necessary.  If that was the case I guarantee most of these guys would still be wearing camouflage. ETA:  Mercenary: A mercenary is a soldier who fights, or engages in warfare primarily for private gain, usually with little regard for ideological, national or political considerations. However, when the term is used to refer to a soldier in a regular national army, it is usually considered an insult, epithet or pejorative.

What did you do before the Delta Sierra?

NOI,

Let me start off by saying I didn't read the whole thread or your post before I posted, nor did I call anyone ignorant.  All I read was "Anyboy know any mercenaries?"and the thread title.  I am well aware that there are companies doing "other work."  I don't wear any type of uniform when I go out.  I wear armor and carry a rifle, but I do that in the States as well.  I might have to kill someone to defend myself here or in the States.  My mission is no differend domestically than it is here,  I just have more powerful weapons.

Now I agree that what you and I do is supported by the US government.,and is necessary.
but lets look at the definition.

Were you recruited to go to an armed conflict?

No. And neither were they.  They were hired to pull security not participate in combat operations.

Did you take the job because of the pay? ( I will allow that money may not be the only reason you took it, but as I said you aint there for the view)

No, I'm a government employee. LEOs aren't known for the high pay scale.  The contractors do make more (more than me) but to do the same job I do overseas and domestically.  No one calls me a combatant, so why call them that?  The only reason they are hired to do this mission is we don't have the bodies to do it ourselves.

Are you a national of the conflict area? do you live in the conflict territory?

No, but I'd be here whether there was conflict or not.

Are you a member of the armed forces party to the conflict?

No I am not, and I do not participate in Combat Operations, neither do they.

Were you sent by a third party to the conflict as a MEMBER of the armed forces?

Once again, no I am part of the Department of State, not DOD in any way.

Quoted: Quoted: There are two career fields here. PMC's are not Mercenaries.  They provide security, explosive removal and training to other countries. Mercenaries engage in offensive action on the part of a country that is not their own. Expect the line to blur even more in the future. Example: Foreign Legions, Gurhka Regiment, use of Chinese Nungs in Vietnam, the countless foreign nationals from Mexicans to Somalis to Puerto Ricans that are in the US military.

Foreign national voluntarily enlisting in the Army of their new country does not even come close to meeting the definition of mercenaries.

And then you display even more of your ignorance by refering to Puerto Ricans as "foreign nationals".

Someone wise once said: It is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There are two career fields here. PMC's are not Mercenaries.  They provide security, explosive removal and training to other countries. Mercenaries engage in offensive action on the part of a country that is not their own. Expect the line to blur even more in the future. Example: Foreign Legions, Gurhka Regiment, use of Chinese Nungs in Vietnam, the countless foreign nationals from Mexicans to Somalis to Puerto Ricans that are in the US military. Foreign national voluntarily enlisting in the Army of their new country does not even come close to meeting the definition of mercenaries. And then you display even more of your ignorance by refering to Puerto Ricans as "foreign nationals". Someone wise once said: It is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

Except for the foreign nationals who really are not US citizens.  Are the being mercenary in joining the US armed forces as a route to citizenship?

Tag because this is interesting. A buddy of mine from high school started his own security company. He was once an employee of Blackwater, after serving in the U.S. Army for several years.

Quoted: Except for the foreign nationals who really are not US citizens.  Are the being mercenary in joining the US armed forces as a route to citizenship?

Nope, they are just smarter than the average border jumper. Why waste tons of money and time sneaking around illegally and hope you finally get your papers, when you can just sign up for the military and earn your citizenship by fighting for your chosen country? Mercenaries fight for $$$ and continue to be citizens of their respective nations while immigrants fight for the priviledge of becoming  an American. Then after they receive their citizenship and rack up experience, they can apply to be a armed contractor for a US company and make even more money. America is the greatest, what a country!

Quoted: if you have to ask, then you dont have the credentials to become one

That is not what "g3shooter" asked.

A few of my friends went to work in Sierra Leone after we left the Army back in 94' doing some kind of shady shit with a Brit that they knew from South Africa. They came back about 6 months later (unpaid) and said that they barely escaped the country with their heads. Didn't sound like much fun to me.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There are two career fields here. PMC's are not Mercenaries.  They provide security, explosive removal and training to other countries. Mercenaries engage in offensive action on the part of a country that is not their own. Expect the line to blur even more in the future. Example: Foreign Legions, Gurhka Regiment, use of Chinese Nungs in Vietnam, the countless foreign nationals from Mexicans to Somalis to Puerto Ricans that are in the US military. Foreign national voluntarily enlisting in the Army of their new country does not even come close to meeting the definition of mercenaries. And then you display even more of your ignorance by refering to Puerto Ricans as "foreign nationals". Someone wise once said: It is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. Except for the foreign nationals who really are not US citizens.  Are the being mercenary in joining the US armed forces as a route to citizenship?

Since when is US citizenship a requirement for enlisting in the US Armed Forces?  Being a resident alien is good enough.  Even if they are not legal resdients, they redeem themselves in my view if they join the military in order to gain their citizenship.  If it means that much to them that they are willing to risk death defending the US, then they are worthy of citizenship.