The illegals are doing the jobs that the welfare leeches should be doing

Groups spar over immigration issues outside of LA-area Home Depot
Associated Press
Dec. 10, 2005
www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/13378623.htm
GLENDALE, Calif. - One person was arrested during a protest Saturday outside Home Depot as groups clashed over the placement of day laborer centers near some of the home improvement chain's stores.

About 200 people gathered outside the store, including members of the anti-illegal immigration group Save Our State, which has staged similar protests against Home Depot in other parts of Southern California.

While the protest grew heated at some points with both sides screaming and yelling over one another, only one person was arrested for allegedly pushing someone, police said. There were no reports of any injuries.

Save Our State contends some of the home improvement chain's stores are encouraging the flow of illegal aliens into the United States by helping to set up day laborer centers - typically a trailer or staging area on store grounds where people gather to seek temporary work from building contractors or others.

"You're talking about people who are in the country illegally," said the group's leader Joseph Turner. "Day laborers are overwhelmingly illegal aliens ... day labor centers are obviously in violation of federal law that prohibits aiding and abetting illegal aliens."

Turner claims the stores often cede to pressure from municipalities to pay for the day laborer centers as a condition for opening up shop.

Last month, the City Council voted in favor to spend $100,000 to expand the center across the street from Home Depot. The center, which opened in 1997, serves more than 100 workers a day.

Glendale is waiting to hear word from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals regarding the constitutionality of its ordinance requiring day laborers to stay on the sidewalk and not go into the street to solicit work. The city appealed after a federal court struck down the ordinance that had been challenged by a day-laborer group.

At previous demonstrations, altercations have ensued between Save Our State members and those of pro-immigrant groups, who believe SOS members use immigration to garner media attention and distract people from other social issues.

During its protests, the group often uses video recorders and cameras to capture images of contractors and others soliciting the day laborers for work, then threatens to expose them for hiring illegal aliens.

"We aggressively target the employers as much as we can because we think they're the source of the problem," Turner said. "If there aren't any jobs (for) illegal aliens, then they're not going to come here."

Why in the FUCK is that center still standing?!?  It should have suffered mutiple "accidents" by now rendering it a smoking hole in the ground?

And some people have asked me why I'd leave the "paradise" of California.  Gee, it might have something to do with shit like this, ya think?

Quoted: Why in the FUCK is that center still standing?!?  It should have suffered mutiple "accidents" by now rendering it a smoking hole in the ground? And some people have asked me why I'd leave the "paradise" of California.  Gee, it might have something to do with shit like this, ya think?

So, you live in California, one of the most liberal welfare giving state and you are complaining about a place where people can go to get work?

Somone has some fucked up priorities.

I'd be more worried about eliminating or cutting back welfare first.

Quoted: Quoted: Why in the FUCK is that center still standing?!?  It should have suffered mutiple "accidents" by now rendering it a smoking hole in the ground? And some people have asked me why I'd leave the "paradise" of California.  Gee, it might have something to do with shit like this, ya think? So, you live in California, one of the most liberal welfare giving state and you are complaining about a place where people can go to get work? Somone has some fucked up priorities. I'd be more worried about eliminating or cutting back welfare first.

Memo not get thru?

Day laborer centers are nothing more than Illegal Alien cesspool's.

Quoted: Memo not get thru? Day laborer centers are nothing more than Illegal Alien cesspool's.

And which will have a greater positive effect for our nation? Eliminating welfare, or illegal aliens not having work?

I'd rather see people standing in line to work rather than standing in line to receive welfare stamps.

Quoted: Quoted: Memo not get thru? Day laborer centers are nothing more than Illegal Alien cesspool's. And which will have a greater positive effect for our nation? Eliminating welfare, or illegal aliens not having work?

welfare recipients aren't trying to set up their own country within our country like la raza are.

Quoted: Why in the FUCK is that center still standing?!?  It should have suffered mutiple "accidents" by now rendering it a smoking hole in the ground? And some people have asked me why I'd leave the "paradise" of California.  Gee, it might have something to do with shit like this, ya think?

I should point out, yourprobably one of the cloest of any of us to help that center havean accident........

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why in the FUCK is that center still standing?!?  It should have suffered mutiple "accidents" by now rendering it a smoking hole in the ground? And some people have asked me why I'd leave the "paradise" of California.  Gee, it might have something to do with shit like this, ya think? So, you live in California, one of the most liberal welfare giving state and you are complaining about a place where people can go to get work? Somone has some fucked up priorities. I'd be more worried about eliminating or cutting back welfare first. Memo not get thru? Day laborer centers are nothing more than Illegal Alien cesspool's. And which will have a greater positive effect for our nation? Eliminating welfare, or illegal aliens not having work?

Memo did NOT get through, they are here illegally, they purchase fraudulent ID
they purchase MORE THAN ONE ID, they work AND recieve welfare, and medical care
and schooling and are waaaaay over represented in the penal system, they are CRIMINALS

Quoted: Memo did NOT get through, they are here illegally, they purchase fraudulent ID they purchase MORE THAN ONE ID, they work AND recieve welfare, and medical care and schooling and are waaaaay over represented in the penal system, they are CRIMINALS

actually your 4000 memos did get through.    1st you are complaining that illegals arent harvesting the CA lettuce crop like they should be, now you are against them working altogether....

Quoted: Quoted: Memo did NOT get through, they are here illegally, they purchase fraudulent ID they purchase MORE THAN ONE ID, they work AND recieve welfare, and medical care and schooling and are waaaaay over represented in the penal system, they are CRIMINALS actually your 4000 memos did get through.    1st you are complaining that illegals arent harvesting the CA lettuce crop like they should be, now you are against them working altogether....

You are confused........again
I know I am wasting my time, but I will state it for the others that CAN engage in rational thought

I complain that the illegals are allowed to be here in total disregard to the RULE OF LAW
I complain that the taxpayers are PAYING FOR THE RENT, FOOD, MONEY, MEDICAL CARE
AND SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS AND THEIR FAMILIES

In the thread that you are referring to, IIRC I said that "some people" say that the illegals
should be allowed to be here to pick the crops, but that the illegals would rather work at fast
food places AND collect welfare. I WANT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS DEPORTED OR JAILED
Was that clear enough?

ok, so are you capable of a rational solution?  or is a $10 billion dollar fence and deporting every illegal in the US supposed to cure all ills?

remember, they are let in this country for a reason, it has been ALLOWED to continue to this point.  heres a hint, it has something to do with our negative birth rates, massive welfare percentage increases for US citizens, and the trend to move business overseas because of the lack of  cheap domestic labor.  add to that the national security issues of a mexican revolution or civil war pending the halting of their form of pressure release via US migration.

with an insane trade deficit, multpile wars, and weak economy we have right now do you think that undertaking the biggest building project in US history is a smart idea, especially when its simple creation would harm our economy and only slow the problem as opposed to stopping it completely?

who would man it?  mexicans?

you cant seem to come up with an adequate solution yourself but chastise others for not taking care of it.  instead of being a cut and paste queen why dont you try and be proactive and think of feasible solutions.

Quoted: I'd rather see people standing in line to work rather than standing in line to receive welfare stamps.

+1 .

Quoted: Quoted: Memo not get thru? Day laborer centers are nothing more than Illegal Alien cesspool's. And which will have a greater positive effect for our nation? Eliminating welfare, or illegal aliens not having work?

Probably illegal aliens not being here.
Illegal aliens have a terrible effect on the economy - they drive wages down.
That means you make less money, which means you spend less money, which means the economy has less spending, which means no raises, which means you make less money....ya see the problem here?

Plus it's not as if we are exactly getting the creme de la creme of sociedad del sur de la frontera, ya know?

its better than having no economy whatsoever.  workers unwilling to work, and businesses unwilling to do business here.

wages generally dont go down for the people who fall under US labor laws, and had no intention of working in the jobs the illegals take anyway.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Memo not get thru? Day laborer centers are nothing more than Illegal Alien cesspool's. And which will have a greater positive effect for our nation? Eliminating welfare, or illegal aliens not having work? welfare recipients aren't trying to set up their own country within our country like la raza are.

Sure they are. Ever hear of NOLA

Quoted: ok, so are you capable of a rational solution?  or is a $10 billion dollar fence and deporting every illegal in the US supposed to cure all ills? remember, they are let in this country for a reason, it has been ALLOWED to continue to this point.  heres a hint, it has something to do with our negative birth rates, massive welfare percentage increases for US citizens, and the trend to move business overseas because of the lack of  cheap domestic labor.  add to that the national security issues of a mexican revolution or civil war pending the halting of their form of pressure release via US migration. with an insane trade deficit, multpile wars, and weak economy we have right now do you think that undertaking the biggest building project in US history is a smart idea, especially when its simple creation would harm our economy and only slow the problem as opposed to stopping it completely? who would man it?  mexicans? you cant seem to come up with an adequate solution yourself but chastise others for not taking care of it.  instead of being a cut and paste queen why dont you try and be proactive and think of feasible solutions.

What The Hell are you talking about? The solution is the enforcement of laws
What country did you grow up in that you don't know that?

If we didn't have enough low-end workers they should have increased the rate of legal immigration
That way, we wouldn't have gotten a bunch of TB infected criminals living in our neighborhoods

That is what I keep saying......This is supposed to be a Nation of Laws, that has been abandoned

As a result, diseases are being IMPORTED........illegally
Jobs are being taken away from CITIZENS..........illegally
Illegals are killing Americans while DRIVING......illegally

I "think" that they have been allowed here to increase movement in our economy
They purchase food, housing, vehicles, clothing, gasoline, furniture, toys, tools, ect, ect
All of those purchases generate tax dollars and also businesses profit from the higher sales volume
(however, MANY of those purchases are being made with federal tax money, out of my\your\our pocket)

Unfortunately, the illegals commit crimes at a much higher rate than they are represented in the population
and, the crimes they seem to be committing are(were)considered to be quite serious in this country
(like forced prostitution of children, DUI manslaughter, kidnapping, child rape, Cop Killing)

They are helping the economy but at the same time, the taxpayer dollar that we are told is in such short supply
is being given to them at an absolutely UNBELIEVABLE rate, the hospitals are being devastated and the schools too

Illegal immigration has been causing problems in other countries as well as this one
Our whole country is being effected by the mass illegal immigration
The benefit of them being here is far outweighed by the devastation that they are bringing
Just ask someone that has had their nine year old girl raped and killed by one of them

The wall would be MUCH cheaper than the cost of paying for the illegals welfare, medical care and
SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS, INCLUDING DISABILITY FOR ILLEGALS AND THEIR FAMILIES

well if its the laws you are concerned only abaout, then you are in favor of amnesty then?    if they are all made legal citizens will you then STFU?   if your wall is built how do you propose to deal with the millions aleady here?  how do you propose to legally find them in the first place?


if they were to increase the rates of legal immigration, what do you think would happen?  the same people who legally come here from mexico would simply double.  those with the financial means to arrange for visas, those with educations or the money to obtain one here.  this does nothing to fill our slots cleaning toilets and picking grapes.  screwed as it may be, like i said there is a reason it has been allowed to persist.

BTW,
id still like to see some definitive proof about some of your claims, like social security.  i noticed in your thread about it you offered no reference site, just a claim you made.    

if you are illegal, you do not have a legitimate social security number, therefore, no benefits.  illegals who use made up numbers do not get income tax returns or SS retirement and disability benefits.  please explain to me how you believe this works.  generally made up SS cards only look passable on photocopies that employers look the other way on.  the numbers are still false or duplicates of an original number belonging to somebody else.


bottom line, without all the rhetoric and hype you interject into the discussion, what do you believe is a good answer to the situation?

Quoted: Quoted: Why in the FUCK is that center still standing?!?  It should have suffered mutiple "accidents" by now rendering it a smoking hole in the ground? And some people have asked me why I'd leave the "paradise" of California.  Gee, it might have something to do with shit like this, ya think? So, you live in California, one of the most liberal welfare giving state and you are complaining about a place where people can go to get work? Somone has some fucked up priorities. I'd be more worried about eliminating or cutting back welfare first.

We should do both:

1. Cancel all welfare. You don't work, you don't get money (or foodstamps, or anything else). Either give back to the taxpayers, or use it for something that benefits the taxpayers.
2. Expel all illegals. There won't be a labor shortage if the ex-welfare people have to get jobs.

Quoted: well if its the laws you are concerned only abaout, then you are in favor of amnesty then?    if they are all made legal citizens will you then STFU?   if your wall is built how do you propose to deal with the millions aleady here?  how do you propose to legally find them in the first place? if they were to increase the rates of legal immigration, what do you think would happen?  the same people who legally come here from mexico would simply double.  those with the financial means to arrange for visas, those with educations or the money to obtain one here.  this does nothing to fill our slots cleaning toilets and picking grapes.  screwed as it may be, like i said there is a reason it has been allowed to persist. BTW, id still like to see some definitive proof about some of your claims, like social security.  i noticed in your thread about it you offered no reference site, just a claim you made.     if you are illegal, you do not have a legitimate social security number, therefore, no benefits.  illegals who use made up numbers do not get income tax returns or SS retirement and disability benefits.  please explain to me how you believe this works.  generally made up SS cards only look passable on photocopies that employers look the other way on.  the numbers are still false or duplicates of an original number belonging to somebody else. bottom line, without all the rhetoric and hype you interject into the discussion, what do you believe is a good answer to the situation?

As far as I am concerned you can stfu with all your insults
You don't seem to have any reply to my "rhetoric" about criminal illegals
If YOU want to bring any facts to the table, be my guest
Hype my ass, I post published articles and my opinion that the rule of law should be obeyed

I have posted SEVERAL times about the totalization agreement, go look for it yourself
and post your problem with THAT in THAT thread

Now, for the people that ARE capable of rational thought
I am NOT in favor of an AMNESTY, that would be a reward for people breaking the law
I know I have told you this in the very recent past(in fact it is in this very thread)
I WANT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS DEPORTED OR JAILED

Is it really possible that you are unable to understand that statement?

And, if the amnesty is passed, which it most likely will be, I will apply myself to the political
process instead of rioting, burning cars and assaulting people as seems to be the trend with some

Quoted: I WANT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS DEPORTED OR JAILED

ok, how are you going to find them?   the vast majority never hit any sort of government radar.  most of them dont get arrested as you seem to think.

does your plan include rounding up anyone who looks somewhat brown-ish, or just having the full police state come into effect with "der ausweiss bitte" and "papers please"?

how would you plan to expel the other 80-90% of the 11 million of so illegals in the country who dont ever end up in jail at some point?  gonna start harrassing businesses about it so they just shut down and go somewhere else, or make them go totally under the table so no tax revenues are ever collected?

it seems so simple to you, because you have a simple mind.

Quoted: Quoted: I WANT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS DEPORTED OR JAILED ok, how are you going to find them?   the vast majority never hit any sort of government radar.  most of them dont get arrested as you seem to think. does your plan include rounding up anyone who looks somewhat brown-ish, or just having the full police state come into effect with "der ausweiss bitte" and "papers please"? how would you plan to expel the other 80-90% of the 11 million of so illegals in the country who dont ever end up in jail at some point?  gonna start harrassing businesses about it so they just shut down and go somewhere else, or make them go totally under the table so no tax revenues are ever collected? it seems so simple to you, because you have a simple mind.

It seems so impossible for you because you root for the criminals

heres a linkie for you.


like i said before, if you use a fictitious SS number, you pay taxes but do not recieve tax refunds or SS benefits.

the totalization agreement is geared towards legal workers who work between two countries.  the uproar is that mexico's SS program is not anywhere close to the US one, yet the money paid into a mexican program could be used towards SS benefits here later on if the worker retires in this country and takes on permanent residence or citizenship here.


all hype and no substance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?ex=1270353600&en=f190f558441dc384&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt

Quoted: heres a linkie for you. like i said before, if you use a fictitious SS number, you pay taxes but do not recieve tax refunds or SS benefits. the totalization agreement is geared towards legal workers who work between two countries.  the uproar is that mexico's SS program is not anywhere close to the US one, yet the money paid into a mexican program could be used towards SS benefits here later on if the worker retires in this country and takes on permanent residence or citizenship here. all hype and no substance. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?ex=1270353600&en=f190f558441dc384&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt

You don't have any idea what you are talking about or what thread you are in, talk about hype

Quoted: You don't have any idea what you are talking about or what thread you are in, talk about hype

it might be easier if you didnt have 17 flunked threads a day about the same topic.  i brought up the SS topic because you SUPERSIZED IT in one of your early posts in THIS THREAD.     you are still wrong, regardless.  why dig through 30 pages  to point that out in one of your equally confusing threads when i can do it here?

Quoted: I complain that the illegals are allowed to be here in total disregard to the RULE OF LAW I complain that the taxpayers are PAYING FOR THE RENT, FOOD, MONEY, MEDICAL CARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS AND THEIR FAMILIES

if i had as many threads on the same topic id forget about what i was writing and where too.

Quoted: It seems so impossible for you because you root for the criminals

not at all.  im just the type of person who, when presented with a problem, doesnt run around screaming and whining and actually attempts to find a logical and feasible solution.

just because i dont fall for your hype and mis-information doesnt mean i dont think the problem itself is valid.

Quoted: Quoted: You don't have any idea what you are talking about or what thread you are in, talk about hype it might be easier if you didnt have 17 flunked threads a day about the same topic.  i brought up the SS topic because you SUPERSIZED IT in one of your early posts in THIS THREAD.     you are still wrong, regardless. Quoted: It seems so impossible for you because you root for the criminals not at all.  im just the type of person who, when presented with a problem, doesnt run around screaming and whining and actually attempts to find a logical and feasible solution. just because i dont fall for your hype and mis-information doesnt mean i dont think the problem itself is valid.

I think you are fos and wasting my time
I am posting articles about illegals because the media buries them
In fact it is getting to be almost impossible for me to find them anymore

If you can't keep up with the threads, don't blame me for your inadequacies

so no response on the fact that YOU were FOS on the social security issue?


i dont expect much original and thought-provoking argument from a cut and paste queen, but you have been a tad bit dissapointing regardless.

Quoted: so no response on the fact that YOU were FOS on the social security issue? i dont expect much original and thought-provoking argument from a cut and paste queen, but you have been a tad bit dissapointing regardless.

AGAIN, the response is that I have already posted links and you are in the wrong damn thread you fos pos

Quoted: Quoted: I WANT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS DEPORTED OR JAILED ok, how are you going to find them?   the vast majority never hit any sort of government radar.  most of them dont get arrested as you seem to think. does your plan include rounding up anyone who looks somewhat brown-ish, or just having the full police state come into effect with "der ausweiss bitte" and "papers please"? how would you plan to expel the other 80-90% of the 11 million of so illegals in the country who dont ever end up in jail at some point?  gonna start harrassing businesses about it so they just shut down and go somewhere else, or make them go totally under the table so no tax revenues are ever collected? it seems so simple to you, because you have a simple mind.

It's pretty easy to find them - they stand in the same places looking for work every day and it's blatantly obvious who they are.

Additionally, when they crack down on landlords and raid houses with 30+ illegals living in them, why do they let everyone leave instead of detaining and deporting?

Quoted: If YOU want to bring any facts to the table, be my guest

i guess you were lying then?   if it wasnt an issue for this thread why did you bring it up in pretty giant sized letters TWICE in this thread?  

sounds like sour grapes because you know you are wrong.  i already explained your own links to you, you were wrong on those as well.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I WANT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS DEPORTED OR JAILED ok, how are you going to find them?   the vast majority never hit any sort of government radar.  most of them dont get arrested as you seem to think. does your plan include rounding up anyone who looks somewhat brown-ish, or just having the full police state come into effect with "der ausweiss bitte" and "papers please"? how would you plan to expel the other 80-90% of the 11 million of so illegals in the country who dont ever end up in jail at some point?  gonna start harrassing businesses about it so they just shut down and go somewhere else, or make them go totally under the table so no tax revenues are ever collected? it seems so simple to you, because you have a simple mind. It's pretty easy to find them - they stand in the same places looking for work every day and it's blatantly obvious who they are. Additionally, when they crack down on landlords and raid houses with 30+ illegals living in them, why do they let everyone leave instead of detaining and deporting?

Oh, NO........it couldn't possibly be that easy, illegals could never be caught by ordinary Policemen

Quoted: It's pretty easy to find them - they stand in the same places looking for work every day and it's blatantly obvious who they are. Additionally, when they crack down on landlords and raid houses with 30+ illegals living in them, why do they let everyone leave instead of detaining and deporting?

thats simply the bottom of the barrel.  there arent 11 million illegals standing on street corners every day for day labor.  besides, that would entail squads of JBT's going around demanding papers, from everybody.  the vast majority of illegals have places to live and jobs to work at.  they arent all milagros picking vegetables in the heat and standing on corners looking to dig ditches for $3 an hour.

those are just the ones you easily see every day, they dont represent the majority by far.

i agree with deporting as they catch but most depts agree with me that they are only going to represent a drop in the bucket and are usually more of a waste of resources than a solution.

Quoted: Oh, NO........it couldn't possibly be that easy, illegals could never be caught by ordinary Policemen

still avoiding your screw-up eh?

Quoted: Quoted: If YOU want to bring any facts to the table, be my guest i guess you were lying then?   if it wasnt an issue for this thread why did you bring it up in pretty giant sized letters TWICE in this thread?   sounds like sour grapes because you know you are wrong.  i already explained your own links to you, you were wrong on those as well.

I admit my mistakes, I admit no such thing about illegals and their families in mexico being eligible for social security benefits including ssi in mexico

You are proving my point, I keep saying that you are in the wrong thread with the ss debate
either you are not capable of rational thought, or you just have no concept of right and wrong

I guess it is easier to jack with me here with bs, insults and hyperbole than it is to look for the
threads that I referenced in the other thread and throw THOSE links in my face

Quoted: Quoted: It's pretty easy to find them - they stand in the same places looking for work every day and it's blatantly obvious who they are. Additionally, when they crack down on landlords and raid houses with 30+ illegals living in them, why do they let everyone leave instead of detaining and deporting? thats simply the bottom of the barrel.  there arent 11 million illegals standing on street corners every day for day labor.  besides, that would entail squads of JBT's going around demanding papers, from everybody.  the vast majority of illegals have places to live and jobs to work at.  they arent all milagros picking vegetables in the heat and standing on corners looking to dig ditches for $3 an hour. those are just the ones you easily see every day, they dont represent the majority by far. i agree with deporting as they catch but most depts agree with me that they are only going to represent a drop in the bucket and are usually more of a waste of resources than a solution.

Uhh, it isnt hard to make employers verify their employee's citizenship.

No jobs = NO ILLEGALS.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I WANT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS DEPORTED OR JAILED ok, how are you going to find them?   the vast majority never hit any sort of government radar.  most of them dont get arrested as you seem to think. does your plan include rounding up anyone who looks somewhat brown-ish, or just having the full police state come into effect with "der ausweiss bitte" and "papers please"? how would you plan to expel the other 80-90% of the 11 million of so illegals in the country who dont ever end up in jail at some point?  gonna start harrassing businesses about it so they just shut down and go somewhere else, or make them go totally under the table so no tax revenues are ever collected? it seems so simple to you, because you have a simple mind. It's pretty easy to find them - they stand in the same places looking for work every day and it's blatantly obvious who they are. Additionally, when they crack down on landlords and raid houses with 30+ illegals living in them, why do they let everyone leave instead of detaining and deporting? Oh, NO........it couldn't possibly be that easy, illegals could never be caught by ordinary Policemen

Actually it is that easy, but the politicians tie their hands.

My buddy happens to be a sheriff who quite frequenty stops landscaping trucks (many times, the landscaper will regularly use the same illegals and let them take the truck). When he gets a truck full of illegals, he arrests everyone and seizes the truck.

The landscapes usually pays the impound fees and gets his truck back. The illegal goes to court for driving without a license and is then released back into our society instead of being deported.

Quoted: Quoted: Oh, NO........it couldn't possibly be that easy, illegals could never be caught by ordinary Policemen still avoiding your screw-up eh?

He said you were wrong, but you edited that out, who is avoiding what here

eta: got to go, I still think you are fos, keep up the insults instead of arguing facts, it confirms my position

Quoted: Uhh, it isnt hard to make employers verify their employee's citizenship. No jobs = NO ILLEGALS.

uh, if that were the case then there wouldnt be an issue now. employers ARE required to verify citizenship.  they have to keep a copy of SS card and ID, along with W-4 info.

Quoted: He said you were wrong, but you edited that out, who is avoiding what here

who the hell are you talking about?

im going to dig up your old thread and prove you wrong about SS, because you obviously didnt read your own links.

EDIT: ooops...you didnt even provide any links on it in that thread....  were supposed to take your word for it.

Quoted: eta: got to go, I still think you are fos, keep up the insults instead of arguing facts, it confirms my position

translation:  i am wrong and need to stop acting like a fool.  check your other thread you were so intent on having thrown in your face.   you were told you were FOS by others before me as well, but still continue to lie repeatedly about it in this thread.

you give the term layman a new meaning.

i can see where you MIGHT have gotten the idea from the totalization argument, if you had the reading comprehension skills of a 6th grader.  i can send  a detailed explanation on totalization for you, dumbed down enough to where you might understand it.  just say the word.  the sad part is, you say you have been researching this very topic for over a year and you still have no idea what its about.

go ahead and flame me and call me a "FOS POS" or whatever  () but you are still wrong.

hey look! somebody else has said you are totally wrong as well!
22bad is a liar

Okay, here it is..........at first I couldn't believe you would stoop to calling me a liar
but then, I saw some of your other posts and I realized that you adhere to the democrat
methodology of personal attacks instead of debating the facts

I put off responding to this bs because I just didn't have the extra time to waste answering a
whining bitch, but you say you are joining the Military, so I guess it is the least I can do for you

You called me a liar and several other names, I suspect that was primarily because you couldn't
debate me on the issues, most likely because you are completely ignorant of any of the facts

I called you a fos, pos without the capacity for rational thought.....lets see if I can make my case
AND show your bs attempt to label me a liar for the desperate, ignorant attempt that it was\is

Since this will probably be a rather lengthy post I think I'll start off with a joke

Quoted: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=417044&page=2#bottom im going to dig up your old thread and prove you wrong about SS, because you obviously didnt read your own links. EDIT: ooops...you didnt even provide any links on it in that thread....  were supposed to take your word for it.

An instant classic, whatever other bs you mangage to exude out of your mealy mouth, I will always remember that one

You said that others were disagreeing with me(I'll come back to the "studying for over a year" part)

Quoted: yeah i busted you blatantly lying, along with a few other members who also told you your were full of shit and incapable of comprehending your own link (which you suposedly have been studying for over a year)....and you mysteriously drop off the face of the earth for a while with your nonsense.

YOU not only completely disregarded the guy disagreeing with you.........

Quoted: Quoted: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=417044&page=2#bottom ok, how are you going to find them?   the vast majority never hit any sort of government radar.  most of them dont get arrested as you seem to think. does your plan include rounding up anyone who looks somewhat brown-ish, or just having the full police state come into effect with "der ausweiss bitte" and "papers please"? how would you plan to expel the other 80-90% of the 11 million of so illegals in the country who dont ever end up in jail at some point?  gonna start harrassing businesses about it so they just shut down and go somewhere else, or make them go totally under the table so no tax revenues are ever collected? it seems so simple to you, because you have a simple mind. It's pretty easy to find them - they stand in the same places looking for work every day and it's blatantly obvious who they are. Additionally, when they crack down on landlords and raid houses with 30+ illegals living in them, why do they let everyone leave instead of detaining and deporting?

Here is another one.......

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=417044&page=2#bottom It's pretty easy to find them - they stand in the same places looking for work every day and it's blatantly obvious who they are. Additionally, when they crack down on landlords and raid houses with 30+ illegals living in them, why do they let everyone leave instead of detaining and deporting? thats simply the bottom of the barrel.  there arent 11 million illegals standing on street corners every day for day labor.  besides, that would entail squads of JBT's going around demanding papers, from everybody.  the vast majority of illegals have places to live and jobs to work at.  they arent all milagros picking vegetables in the heat and standing on corners looking to dig ditches for $3 an hour. those are just the ones you easily see every day, they dont represent the majority by far. i agree with deporting as they catch but most depts agree with me that they are only going to represent a drop in the bucket and are usually more of a waste of resources than a solution. Uhh, it isnt hard to make employers verify their employee's citizenship. No jobs = NO ILLEGALS.

But when I point out that YOU are the one that is being disagreed with.......

Quoted: Quoted: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=417044&page=2#bottom He said you were wrong, but you edited that out, who is avoiding what here who the hell are you talking about?

You can't spot them.......
even though they are QUOTING YOU
even though they are in the SAME THREAD AS YOU
even though they are RESPONDING TO EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING
and last but not least EVEN THOUGH I POINTED IT OUT TO YOU
You don't even acknowledge that they are disagreeing with YOU, not ME

BUT, it gets even better.....to give you the PROOF that I am a liar, you go to another thread
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=417254&page=1
And quote this guy, and then use HIS quote as justification for calling me a liar

Quoted: Quoted: Hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of illegals are using fake social security numbers and having deductions from their checks.  Since the number is fake or doesn't match their real name they wont be able to recieve a social security check when they reach the target age.  The huge influx of money is too good of a deal for the government to want to ruin.  They are here to stay.  IMHO dont tell 22bad that.  that would make him a liar, or at best a very, very, poor reader.

Even though he is NOT quoting ME
He is not even in a THREAD I am in
He does NOT mention ME
He does NOT even use my words or even totalization agreement

But, because he said something about illegals and social security deductions that is enough for
YOU to call me a liar
HE DOESN'T EVEN POST OR STATE A SOURCE

Then you go on to regale us with links and statements designed to showcase your superior knowledge of the totalization agreement
I'm to tired of this to bother quoting your links
(I have been digging up your quotes for over an hour)
but here is a quote from you(another good one)
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=417156&page=1#bottom

Quoted: im not trying to make a point that they are putting more in that they get out, i am saying that the numerous claims that illegals are receiving SS benefits is false.  under the table workers do not have income withheld, but as 22bad pointed out in his "lettuce" thread, the current trend of most illegals is to use false SS numbers and documentation and work at legit jobs. one can still be against something, but not succumb to hype and lies related to it.  its actually best to have an understanding of the facts if you truly want to do something about a problem.

YOUR mastery of the facts is waaaaay over rated, I never claimed to be an expert on the totalization agreement
or say that I studied it for a year(YOU go dig up a qoute where I said that)
I said that I have been posting about it for about a year, and a year ago I spent about ten hours learning about it
I will state that I know more about the totalization agreement with mexico than 99% of the people in this country
AND THAT INCLUDES YOU
It was signed a little more than a year ago, the "numerous claims" about illegals getting social security
are referring to the ssi(social security disability program)here is ONE example

www.namicalifornia.org/news_detail.aspx?id=417 Drug addiction and alcoholism are classified as diseases and disabilities. Disability Code DA&A had in 1983 only 3,000 stipend recipients, but in 1994 exploded to 101,000. In 2003, between 250,000 and 400,000 got lump-sum grants of disability money via SSI. When Linda Torres was arrested in Bakersfield, California, with about $8,500 in small bills in a sack, the police originally thought it was stolen money. It was her SSI lump sum award for her disability: heroin addiction.

But, don't worry, I will probably be posting stories about numerous illegals getting ss benefits next year

I think that clears up any possible misconceptions about you having ANY idea what you are talking about

haha...so you misrepresented the totalization agreement and this is the best you can do?

the entire thread is about ust that, the totalization agreement, which you are both wrong and totally cluless on.

the only people you quoted were some of your circle jerk buddies that had nothing to say about said topic itself.


this is the quote i was speaking of, you know the one that actually referenced the totalization agreement you seem to have no clue about.  nice try, ok, well, mediocre, but no cigar.

Quoted: Quoted: Not sure I am able to make sense of your butchered quotes or garbled question.......... (looks like you fixed the garbled quotes) I agree with everything you posted that you found, but not your questions or accusations You can keep reading about it.........it took me over ten hours to find all the information........ If you have found the info somewhere, post the link so we can make up our own minds as to what the information is that you are basing your claims on. Until then, I'll view it as simply more anyi-immigrant hysteria, because the whole  Totalization thing appears to be aimed at preventing double taxation, not giving immigrants a freebie.

check this out:

SS benefits not recouped


THIS is what you said, and THIS is what you lied about.
you are totally wrong about the totalization agreement,  accept it and move on.

just admit it, you fucked up. even if illegals were somehow recieving benefits for disability that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the totalization agreement which is to prevent double taxation on foreign workers from any country.

Quoted: You guys know that illegals and their families are now eligible for social security benefits, right? I have been posting about the totalization agreement for about a year now IIRC I have only seen a dozen or so posts responding to this FACT............. I was just wondering if that "little detail" is being missed in the tons of articles about illegals that I post

Quoted: haha...so you misrepresented the totalization agreement and this is the best you can do? the entire thread is about ust that, the totalization agreement, which you are both wrong and totally cluless on. the only people you quoted were some of your circle jerk buddies that had nothing to say about said topic itself.

I have NEVER seen the posters that I quoted disagreeing with you before

And, here is a Congressman saying most of what you claim is a misrepresentation
www.cis.org/articles/2004/totalizationtranscript.html

So let?s take a look at what we are talking about here when we talk about the totalization agreement. Totalization is something that can and has served a useful purpose. Large corporations in the United States and abroad ? when they send people overseas, that is, to assignments that last a certain number of years ? those people who are overseas for these companies end up being doubly taxed. They pay both Social Security and the equivalent tax in their own native countries ? in those countries that they are working in ? allowing Social Security in foreign agencies to give credit to one ? under one system ? you know, it does ? you know, making this type of adjustment is something that sounds good and it works if people are in the countries legally, and if they are in those countries temporarily. But this is not the case with Mexico. Mexico is certainly a totally different situation. We have almost six million Mexican citizens living illegally in the United States of America. This is not a situation like the limited number of Swedish or Japanese executives who will work here for several years and then go home. Not only are the Mexicans not going to be returning to Mexico, the Mexican government encourages them to stay in the United States. After all, if the United States is going to pay for their healthcare bills, their education bills, and now their retirement, why should the Mexican government be concerned about getting them back home? The Pollyannas and the ostriches who advocate open borders want Congress to believe three things about the totalization agreement with Mexico ? these three things that are absolutely are not true. First, proponents of the totalization agreement want us to believe that it will affect only a small number of people. The Social Security Administration is saying the agreement will only affect 50,000 people. Well, how did they come up with that number? And ? (chuckles) ? it?s going to fascinate you. They came up with that number by studying the number of Canadian illegal immigrants. Well, this is absurd. The General Accounting Office has said with this remarkable understatement, the Canadian experience is not a good predicator of the experience under an agreement with Mexico. Of course not. The second item is that ? that people want you to believe that it?s not so ? is that illegal immigrants will not be receiving Social Security because of this agreement, and while it is true that one cannot be illegal at the time that one would be applying for Social Security, prior work while done while an illegal is in the country does count for Social Security under the agreement. So if one works in the United States illegally for nine years and there is some sort of change ? the president?s program normalizing the status, or if some kind of change of status comes through, that work in the United States illegally then will become an important factor in determining eligibility and amounts of money for Social Security. And let me note, we are not just talking about retirement benefits. The dependents? benefits to illegal aliens are explicitly permitted by the preliminary language in this agreement. So we are talking about huge sums of money ? not just for retirement, but for taking care of the families of illegal immigrants. This is a huge threat to the well-being of Social Security, and it is an outrageous violation of our obligation to watch out for the senior citizens of the United States of America. And I, as I say, do not understand why every senior citizens organization in this country is not engaged in this debate. Now, the third aspect of totalization that the supporters want you to believe that is not so is that giving Social Security will not have an impact on the illegal immigration problem. Now, I don?t know if anybody who is advocating this has taken Economics 101, but if you give more money ? if you buy something and you provide more money ? more of it will be produced. I mean, that is just it. If we spend more money and we provide more benefits to illegal immigrants, there will be more illegal immigrants. That is just matter of fact. And those who suggest otherwise are either in lala-land or intentionally trying to deceive people into doing something that is going to be harmful, not only today, but tomorrow as well ? for tomorrow?s generation. And who wouldn?t, in Mexico, choose to come to the United States of America and having the U.S. government back the retirement system rather than trying to stay dependent on a corrupt and bankrupt retirement system in Mexico? There is just no doubt about it. Now, I have a little bit more bad news: if Congress passes any kind of an amnesty or a guest-worker program, every illegal alien who qualifies for amnesty will then be able to apply for Social Security as ? will then have a legal status in the United States. Any of the amnesty or guest-worker programs that we have heard about will mean millions and millions of illegal aliens thrown into the Social Security system just when the baby boomers in this country are retiring. So all this time that they have worked will then count ? they have worked in the country illegally ? and if we change the status which people are talking about, all of those years will count and all of those people will count at exactly the time when Social Security is the most vulnerable. This is outrageous that Americans are even thinking about doing this because it is so contrary to the interests of America?s senior citizens. America cannot support the whole globe, and we in Congress have an obligation to look after our own senior citizens first. That does not mean that we don?t care about people overseas. That does not mean we have hard hearts. It does not mean because you want to take care of your own family that you are hard-hearted or a mean-spirited person for not spending the resources for the healthcare of your family to take care of your neighbor. And yes, you may love your neighbor, but you don?t expect your neighbor then to do the same thing for you. I mean, the idea is love your neighbor as yourself, and not to say, love your neighbor instead of yourself, instead of your family. And so this is a real ? a situation where this could cost us, and cost the people that we are responsible for taking care of ? we could cost them the type of protection and services and resources that they have been promised all of these years by their government, and that is why they have been willing to pay into the Social Security system. And by the way, with the Mexican totalization agreement, that is just what we are looking at, but in terms of illegal immigration, that goes through all of the services provided by government that our people are taxed for. Congress has one option to stop this insanity. We must pass a law specifically banning any work done by those people who are in this country illegally, and we must make sure that any work that is done by people who are here illegally is not a qualification and does not become part of their qualification for Social Security. I have introduced a bill ? HR 1631 ? which will prohibit the work histories of non-citizens who are here illegally from being counted towards Social Security earnings. If my bill, or one like it, does not pass, then the totalization agreement with Mexico could well end up to be a disaster for senior citizens in the United States.

This is farther down in the same article, it mentions the problem of attempting to deny illegals
social security benefits because even though they have been here illegally and paying into someone
else's social security account, they HAVE been paying and deserve to reap the rewards of paying
There are many other similar opinions in many other articles, they all pretty much say the same thing......
If the illegals pay into the system, they deserve to get the benefits, that is the consensus

MR. KRIKORIAN: Could I just address a piece ? sort of the implicit thinking behind that was ? you know, was a kind of assumption that in paying into Social Security ? this is sort of the way people look at it ? well, illegals, for instance ? just look at the issue of legal status. Illegals are paying into Social Security, so don?t they deserve it? Haven?t they bought something in a sense? And the fact is, that is not what Social Security is. It?s a welfare program. I mean, you pay into it now for people who are getting it now. What you earn is just credits, if anything. The ? there are proposals to privatize part of Social Security where you would put some of your money into essentially an IRA but it was mandatory. In that sense, even an illegal would own it because you would have a property right because it would be your money. That?s not the way it works now and so a lot of the thinking on this just is based on a misunderstanding of what Social Security is. Anyone else? Yes. Q: My question is more just a clarification. Are you all worried that they?re going to put some sort of amnesty into the totalization agreement, or are your concerns that in five or six years there?s going to be an amnesty or a guest worker program or something? MS. DINERSTEIN: I?m worried that an amnesty program would make the situation worse. Right now ? and I am, sorry, not a Washington person and I cannot remember the numbers of bills, but this last year something went into effect that?s called the Social Security Protection Act, and that took care of some of the problem. It ? what it said is that if a worker returns to his home country and he or she is no longer going to be able to apply for U.S. Social Security benefits from that country based upon illegal earnings. That?s one of the things that my paper shows; that today, if you in this country illegally, you are not entitled to Social Security benefits, period. If you go back to your home country, you often are, and the reason is because you are no longer illegally in the U.S. (Chuckles.) I mean, this is bizarre. So that law that was passed, like ? prohibits that. But the law only went part way, and what happened is that they say that if you work say ? say you were in the U.S. for six years and worked with a phony Social Security number, and your earnings got credited to the earnings suspense fund, comes an amnesty and you are now legal, that you have ? you would have the right to go back to Social Security and say please transfer all of those credits that I earned while illegal into my new totally valid Social Security number. So an amnesty would, by an order of magnitude, increase the liability that the United States would have in terms of its Social Security Trust Fund.

This ought to cover ALL of your bs accusations about me being a liar
Now, maybe you want to address where YOU lied, the other posters SPECIFICALLY
said YOU were wrong, and you have been saying that they said I was wrong,GOTCHA, YOU LIAR

Quoted: I'd rather see people standing in line to work rather than standing in line to receive welfare stamps.

They often do both.  

Quoted: haha...so you misrepresented the totalization agreement and this is the best you can do? the entire thread is about ust that, the totalization agreement, which you are both wrong and totally cluless on. the only people you quoted were some of your circle jerk buddies that had nothing to say about said topic itself. this is the quote i was speaking of, you know the one that actually referenced the totalization agreement you seem to have no clue about.  nice try, ok, well, mediocre, but no cigar. Quoted: Quoted: Not sure I am able to make sense of your butchered quotes or garbled question.......... (looks like you fixed the garbled quotes) I agree with everything you posted that you found, but not your questions or accusations You can keep reading about it.........it took me over ten hours to find all the information........ If you have found the info somewhere, post the link so we can make up our own minds as to what the information is that you are basing your claims on. Until then, I'll view it as simply more anyi-immigrant hysteria, because the whole  Totalization thing appears to be aimed at preventing double taxation, not giving immigrants a freebie. check this out: SS benefits not recouped THIS is what you said, and THIS is what you lied about. you are totally wrong about the totalization agreement,  accept it and move on. just admit it, you fucked up. even if illegals were somehow recieving benefits for disability that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the totalization agreement which is to prevent double taxation on foreign workers from any country. Quoted: You guys know that illegals and their families are now eligible for social security benefits, right? I have been posting about the totalization agreement for about a year now IIRC I have only seen a dozen or so posts responding to this FACT............. I was just wondering if that "little detail" is being missed in the tons of articles about illegals that I post

I guess this means you aren't going to post any of my old threads about the totalization agreement
OR post where I said that I have been studying the agreement for a year
YOU ARE THE LIAR, I BUSTED YOU, BUT YOU REFUSE TO COMMENT ON IT
(because you are a fos pos with no capacity for rational thought)

Quoted: Quoted: I'd rather see people standing in line to work rather than standing in line to receive welfare stamps. They often do both.

And since they have to buy fake ID to do it, they just go ahead and buy multiple IDs
One to work, and a couple more to draw benefits with, the system needs to be scrapped

well, you can put up quotes from anybody on any side of any argument, but the bottom line is that they do NOT recieve SS retirement benefits, not matter what the general consensus is of what "should happen".  

again you are wrong.  keep trying.

Quoted: well, you can put up quotes from anybody on any side of any argument, but the bottom line is that they do NOT recieve SS retirement benefits, not matter what the general consensus is of what "should happen".   again you are wrong.  keep trying.

You are wrong, and you are a liar, I posted proof that you are a liar, thanks for playing

daemon734     =    

Quoted: daemon734     =

Another one that I have not seen before, but I sure DO appreciate his contribution today

ah yessss......i dont agree with the circle-jerk referendum you guys have going on here, so i must be a troll.  

 four thousand threads on the same topic with the exact same result every single time of broadcasting your fantasies of minefields and punji sticks on the border.  

doesnt it get old at all, or do you all like the smell of each others assholes on your fingers?



i suggest stepping away from the hype and actually doing something constructive on the topic, or at the VERY least, reality based discussion on a solution....but i guess thats too much for some of you to work with.

keep up the good fight fellas!

This is just wrong on so many levels.

Quoted: ok, so are you capable of a rational solution?  or is a $10 billion dollar fence and deporting every illegal in the US supposed to cure all ills?

No, just a few like hospitals being used as Illegal's clinics, their drain on social services and the additional cost to educate their children. I could go on, but there are resources to getthe facts on this.

remember, they are let in this country for a reason, it has been ALLOWED to continue to this point.

Yes, they have been. By Democrats counting on the Illegal's voter fraud to get them elected and by businessmen counting on paying them low wages and letting the public pick up their health care.

heres a hint, it has something to do with our negative birth rates, massive welfare percentage increases for US citizens,

While the birth rate isn't what it once was, it is not negative. Birthrates are subject to change. We don't know if they will go up, down, or stay the same in the future.

and the trend to move business overseas because of the lack of  cheap domestic labor.

Business hasn't been moving overseas just for low labor costs, business has been moving overseas to eascape costs associated with our regulatory environment. To escape labor costs, most businesses just declare bankruptcy to escape pension costs. They simply move to another state to escape high (usually union) labor costs. But, they can't escape OSHA and the EPA without going overseas.
I propose that we either remove the regulations or impose tariffs on imports equal to the dead-weight loss of regulation paid by American companies.

add to that the national security issues of a mexican revolution or civil war pending the halting of their form of pressure release via US migration.

So, you want to solve Mexico's problems by importing the trouble makers?

Can you name even ONE third world country that was improved by the exodus of a large percentage of it's population?

Mexico needs to clean their own house. Exporting their problems won't help. They need to start taking basic things like "honesty" seriously. They need to open up their markets and allow real competition rather than accepting bribes to keep competitors out. The biggest problem with Mexico is Mexicans. You want that here?

with an insane trade deficit, multpile wars, and weak economy we have right now do you think that undertaking the biggest building project in US history is a smart idea, especially when its simple creation would harm our economy and only slow the problem as opposed to stopping it completely?

Does anyone else see the assumptions here?

you cant seem to come up with an adequate solution yourself but chastise others for not taking care of it.  instead of being a cut and paste queen why dont you try and be proactive and think of feasible solutions.

Last time I checked we had plenty of solutions. Half of them would get us arrested, the other half the politicians refuse to implement. I'm willing to settle for implementing some of the political solutions. A wall is a good start and it says so much that I want the Illegals to hear! The rest, like fining the hell out of employers, confiscating the property of and deporting any illegals caught, will make those already here want to leave.