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If it is inertia operated that could be a problem. Don't they know hanging everything but the kitchen sink off a rifle is big these days? I need them rails.
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Good to see the Arfcom Fashion Police weighing in on how a rifle looks. Lord knows, how it looks is damned important!
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Edit to kill pic |
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Looks to me like that whole top-cover is meant to be replaced with something much nicer (and/or swapped out entirely if it's ambi like the Cx4). I really hate the design of that top-cover altogether, actually. It would be much more practical to have one going over the bolt with a sliding cover on each carryhandle side (a la FAL, only ambi swappable, and with a cover behind the exposed bolt like on late-model AK's). |
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Apparently, about 80% of this site. If it was $50 and came with a working vagina, I think half this forum would turn their nose up at it and whine that it didn't look cool. |
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It probably will, but be LE only. That way, if it's produced in Italy, it can come in directly. If it's for civy sales here, it'll have to be assembled by BUSA using made in the US parts to get around the 922 regs, or completely built here. Possible, but not probable....or else we'd have had the AR70 or something like it me thinks. |
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this begs the question, what are gun laws like in Italy? I'm guessing they aren't building that gun for the home market, why would you produce a new .223 ebr if you weren't planning on selling it the worlds largest market for small arms?
It sort of reminds me of an HK54. |
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I'm sure it'll be marketed to law enforcement and military worldwide long before being marketed to civilians, if it is at all. |
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I disagree, actually. The CX4 really has been a civvie sales success in the US. It's all about the almighty dollar (Euro?) so I would be very surprised if they're not looking at selling it on the American civvie market. |
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I have no doubts that Beretta would like the civy sales, but their US manufacturing isn't preparing to make these guns, AFAIK. I know an employee there in their pistol plant, and he said no one there's heard a thing about this gun. So, what's the reality? They can't sell them to us by direct importation. The ONLY way would to get them here is to make a bunghole stock neuter them, ala the CX4, or to import some of it, manufacture the rest here, and assemble it to make it evil featured. It's possible, hell I've been wrong before but I don't think Beretta is ready to make that leap based on what I've heard about BUSA and their readiness. |
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The '89 ban will keep it from ever being imported. Expect a crowned muzzle, no bayo lug, and that goofy thumbhole-type stock like the Storm has.
Mike |
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It sort of does look like its made for the le or civilian market here. It has no fun switch, it looks like it just goes from safe to fire. I'm guessing they used the shotgun receiver just so they can use their straight stocks. Either to see if they get them imported in that configuration or give le a new PC looking patrol gun.
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The but stock looks interesting, not ugly. Why? Beacause one its probably made on exsisting tooling for their R1, which means its cheaper (good thing, there are enough pricey assualt rifles on the market, the low end stuff is limited to Mini-14 and Keltech, and AK). If this thing sells for what the Storm does, has decent accuracy then it will be competive. If it costs as much as an AR it should have out of box AR accuracy.
It looks like that stock might possible be collapsible and we are seeing it fully collapsed? The other thing is that they can put a normal sporter stock on the gun, ship it with a ten round mag and import it as a sporting weapon. I'm guessing this is what they will do. I've not done a import conversion to a evil assault configuration, what all needs to be done? How many parts does it need? Ten? In all honesty I doubt many manufacturers really think they will get any decent LEO sales in the US with all the M4's and M16's being cranked out. EDIT: After looking at it a minute I do think that stock is collapsible. If has a button on the left side. What the hell else would it be for except to release the stock to pull out. If it were one piece with the pistol grip there wouldn't be that gap, after all its plastic, you just mold it in one piece. |
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Oh please, what a bunch of BS, I suppose if High point comes out with a new .223 your going to run right out and get it too. Hey, it's a new EBR isn't it? |
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Know what? Hi Point makes a VERY GOOD little carbine for $135, and I would buy one if I was in the need for another 9mm, which I'm not. I've shot them, they run good, and they come with a no BS lifetime warranty. If they made a .223 for $300 that shoots as good as their carbine, you bet your ASS I'd buy it. And, I'm 100% serious that most people on this board are utter, outright fashion faggots about rifles. It HAS to look cool, or they're not interested. Well, bucko, that's not me. I have a whole safe full of guns that people think are ugly, and some of them I count as my favorite pieces. I have a blocky, big, ugly Ruger P89 that's never failed me. I have a Beretta Storm, that I love. I have a MAS-36, that's accurate as hell. Looks mean DIDDLY SHIT to me, understand? If it works, it works well and I can afford it, it takes on a beauty all its own. This offering from Beretta intrigues me, because they generally make a very good gun. If it works, it's accurate, and is affordable, I'm on it like stink on shit. |
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I'll admit to being one of those, but not to the sacrifice of function. |
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At least you're man enough to admit it. |
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If they make it about the same price as the CX4 it's a winner. There's a store here selling them for $550.
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Shit.............there goes more of my money.........FN2000, SCAR........I need a loan!
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That's a little high, GT's has them for 519$. Both .40 and 9mm. |
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i'm also a believer in beretta produts-got a 1201 fp and a 92 fs....wouldn't mind adding one of these to the family |
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I gotta admit...if they put a rail on top and along the sides I would buy it as long as the price was reasonable.
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Yeah, because there's no way that could be made in the US. |
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Yeah, because Beretta is in the same category as Hi-Point. |
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Well, I think it's probably gas operated. Similar to the M1014 system. That receiver doesn't lie.
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This place has all 3: 9, .40 and .45 at $550 |
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No, but Hi-point is in the same catagory as a $50 rifle. I'm done buying weird , off the wall guns. I want things I can work on and modify without ordering parts from Europe. |
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I doubt they'll import it here for us civilians. Maybe if Beretta built it here it.
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You do know that guns like the Glock, SigSauer, Beretta, etc. that are made in Europe have parts and distributors here in the US, right? I have ordered parts from all three companies, and received them from the United States in short order. If they sold the gun here, you can bet BUSA would be handling its support....not that I'd be biting my nails that it would require constant parts. I haven't broken a Beretta product yet and god knows I've used them hard enough to. |
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If it's not an improvement on the AR15 I'm not too interested.
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Well, I studied those pictures and I will say I'm not too impressed.
It is apparent this rifle is an afterthough based on a shotgun design. Magwell is to far foward of the trigger. The rifle doesnt appear to be as optics friendly as an AR-15. I have been really disapointed with Beretta lately. They screwed up on the CX4 9mm carbine. Now they are messing up on this. I just don't know why they dont produce an SC-70 for us and give us what we want. |
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Chain of events=
1. Evil Black Rifle owners are dissatisfied with current offerings of .223 rifles. The cry goes out: "why won't a reputable manufacturer come up with a new .223 rifle that is reliable, accurate, and affordable?" 2. A reputable manufacturer, hearing this, sees a market for such a gun. 3. The manufacturer disregards political correctness, opposition from "ordinary" gun owners who see no "need" for such a gun, the very small market share to be won over by making such a gun, and the bad press and potential lawsuits if the gun should be misused, and they decide to build the gun. 4. The manufacturer builds the gun. They use parts from existing guns to cut down on research and development, thus making the end product cheaper. The gun accepts existing STANAG high capacity magazines including the 100 round beta C mag, despite pleas from their in house lawyers to restrict capacity to ten rounds with proprietary mags which can also be sold at a profit seperately. The gun sports evil features like a pistol grip, adjustable stock, a flash hider, even though these features add cost and complexity and do little or nothing to enhance the actual performance of the gun. The gun costs less than an AR15 from a competing reputable manufacturer. 5. The gun makes its first appearance on the internet. Chairborne Rangers who have never shot one, held one, or even seen one with their own eyes immediately decry it. The cry goes out: "Its ugly looking! The pistol grip and furniture look like afterthoughts and are made of plastic! Its angular and they didn't pay enough attention to the aesthetic of how it looks when they designed it. Thats not like my AR15 at all! Plus I bet it only costs around a hundred dollars less than the AR15 design (which has been around since the 1960s and for which the research and development and tooling and forging equipment was paid off by the manufacturers years ago)." They say all this with no sense of irony or of their own hypocrisy. 6. After judging the negative reaction of the very small market segment which it hoped to capture with its new offering, the reputable manufacturer decides not to risk its good name and either makes the gun available to only law enforcement, makes it in a very small volume until the R&D costs are recouped and then drops it from the line, or decides not to bother tooling up for it at all. The gun is a sales and marketing failure. 7. Start at step 1 again. This is what I predict will happen with the Fucking crybabies. |
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