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Posted: 11/26/2005 6:41:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2005 6:45:15 PM EDT by TheMocoMan]


all this .308 goodness I really can't decide. Even based on "looks" there is no clear winner. Price is about the same all around.

Tell me this doesn't make you stiff?








Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:44:52 PM EDT
I would go with the FAL. I just cant stand the M1A being chopped down like that, along with the muzzle brake. FAL mags are cheap, mucho parts available.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:45:27 PM EDT
FAL
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:46:38 PM EDT
FAL.


I'd vote for the Springfield, but it needs parts replaced right out of the box. If it came with things like GI parts, it would be my first choice.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:46:42 PM EDT
Thats easy!
The FAL!
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:46:48 PM EDT
I would get the FAL first.



But you will, of course, eventually get all four.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:47:27 PM EDT
If you don't already have a bolt gun. Go with the BOLT BABY!

If you do...The FAL is...an ok compromise
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:47:33 PM EDT
No question, get the FAL!!
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:49:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2005 6:50:28 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Para Carbine. $1,495.00



Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:52:35 PM EDT
Battle proven - The FAL.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:06:01 PM EDT
I voted for the AR in .308.
ArmaLite in particular.

Time was I'd say FAL. Scope mounting isn't the best. Mags are cheap.
I had a Century Sporter L1A1 on an IMBEL receiver that was never 'quite right'.
I also saw an SA58 double-tap, even though it was a 'new' gun.

Bushmaster just discontinued their AR that used FAL mags ---
ArmaLite AR10 is a good rifle; the mags are less expensive now; the scope mounting options are endless.
So, my vote is for the AR10.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:08:25 PM EDT
I love FALs.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:09:57 PM EDT
Since you only put the SOCOM in there representing the M1A I voted for the FAL.

If you'd included the Scout/Squad M1A I'd have voted for that.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:11:22 PM EDT
FALs rule for everything.

M1As are great match guns.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:12:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2005 7:15:01 PM EDT by Ardenner]
I have an AR in .308 and love it. It's a DPMS 18." I have the factory 4-railed handguards, but am considering putting on the SWS 12" rail. That said, I am also getting a FN SPR soon. So I say GET BOTH! The combination of an ACOG and a .308 AR is pretty incredible though. If you can only get one I would say get the AR, but I don’t have a .308 bolt rifle yet so my opinion may change. ETA- my AR is VERY accurate. I would be surprised if the SOCOM could match it. Also, what is the point of .308 with a 16"?
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:21:09 PM EDT
You NEED a FAL.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:27:56 PM EDT
Modified SOCOM owner and have no regrets but I'd vote FAL. DSA FAL for sure. Might be because that's what I want next but to busy drinking to delv too deep into my reasoning.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:23:23 PM EDT
I vote for the AR10, reason being that i am looking more for a long range precision weapon, rather than a drag through the mudd battle rifle. although great accuracy can be achieved from both the FAL and the M1A, I just think that the AR is the most versatile platform availible today, reliability for me has been outstanding, from free float tubes, to grips stocks and triggers, the AR offers more than the other two at this moment,

also

I can go from a long range 22inch heavy barrel to a 16 inch carbine in the time that it takes to push two pins out and swap uppers, something that you really cant pull off with the others
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:30:35 PM EDT
Why is HK91 not a choice? I would get that before the SOCOM. In fact, in some conditions (desert for example) it may be MORE reliable than the FAL. After I get an SPR, an HK91 is on my list.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 9:08:01 PM EDT
Another vote for the AR-10!
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 9:23:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Why is HK91 not a choice? I would get that before the SOCOM. In fact, in some conditions (desert for example) it may be MORE reliable than the FAL. After I get an SPR, an HK91 is on my list.



Not currently in production or importable.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 5:21:05 AM EDT
FAL...

Almost as reliable as an AK,

but with 7.62 NATO goodness....

I really like the M14 design as well but not the short ones.

I Will get another M14/M1A one day I'm sure. I already miss the one I just traded away.....

Flyer
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 5:24:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 5:26:22 AM EDT by EMSflyer]
Sorry...double posted...fat fingers + not enough coffee yet
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 5:24:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 5:24:46 AM EDT by mayday]
FAL....no question about it. I've had a DSA for years and so far have put case after case of .308 through it. Not any sign of a problem yet.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:03:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:13:59 AM EDT
FAL
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:15:39 AM EDT
Buy the one YOU want.

I bought a SOCOM 16 and put it in a SAGE EBR stock. Its awesome. YMMV.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:16:07 AM EDT
That FAL looks Very Cool !
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:25:48 AM EDT
I so badly want an M1a. Maybe that will be my return from Iraq victory rifle in 2 years.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:01:13 AM EDT
AR10.

The FAL has several design features that, while I would rank it second, make it a distant second to the AR10.

#1 is the rear irons. If you wear glasses, the irons are guaranteed to bite them.
#2 is the mag follower/bolt holdopen jam. This occurs when the mag follower slips over the bolt hold open. It results in a jam that will tempt you to destroy the magazine to fix (I've cleared several).
#3 is the design. FALs were designed to be fully-automatic. Making them semi is accomplished by removing the hammer retarder. This results in a gun that is prone to discharge from an unlocked bolt.

The AR10 has none of these failures, plus it has many superior features (which I will leave to others to explain).
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:06:27 AM EDT
Everybody should have at LEAST one FAL!
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 10:03:14 AM EDT
Ok, so anyone live in SE Michigan with a DSA FAL???

Every magazine article I've read about the SOCOM 16 has been glowing. I didn't think anything needed to be replaced on that bad boy. I guess I'm biased thinking Springfield Armory can do no wrong. :D

My buddy (Rudy) has a mildly loaded 1911 Springfield and he never runs a flippin bore brush down the barrel. Just a few drops of oil once in awhile. It drives me nuts, becuase here I am field stripping my P226 after every shoot, brushing off the deposits. WWB = dirty shooting

I didn't include the full-tilt M1A becuase I'm a Carbine Whore (AR-10 considered a carbine???)
What's a carbine? A barrel 18" or shorter?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 10:18:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:29:51 AM EDT
Try them all the range if possible, then make your choice
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 11:33:05 AM EDT
I wear glasses, and none of my FAL's bite them. A mag follower bolt hold open jam? That rifle needs to be looked at by someone that knows FAL's. I suppose that it can happen if someone crams a roll pin into the bolt hold open. Believe me, the bolt hold open has been proven for 50 years to work and work well. Firing out of battery is impossible for a FAL. The carrier is designed so that the hammer can't even TOUCH the firing pin until the bolt and carrier are locked in. FAL's are probably one of the safest Self Loading Rifle's in the world to shoot, both in full auto and in semi. An AR type is much more likely to fire out of battery than a FAL because of IT's design (and that includes the AR10). The FAL also has an incredible capacity for digesting any ammo that shows up surplus, thanks to its very generous design tolerances and it's adjustable gas system. Speaking of it's gas system, it also doesn't crap where it eats like an AR system. This means that the FAL doesn't heat up as fast, and it doesn't get powder debri in the action. Here is a true story. I had bought some processed brass for my AR, and had reloaded a bunch of it. I was shooting this ammo and my AR quit ejecting. I tore it down and found a chunk of brass cleaning media under the extractor claw. This chunk was small enough to go down the barrel, through the gas tube, into the carrier, into the bolt, and lodged under the extractor claw, holding it up so that it couldn't grab onto the case to pull it out! True this was reloaded ammo, and I didn't do my part by inspecting the cases properly. However, when I clean my AR's, I always strip down the bolt and inspect and clean under the extractor claw, and I have always found brass shavings etc. under it. Because of this, I just don't trust the AR system. I trust the FNFAL, Right Arm of the Free World!
Regards, FW
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:07:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
AR10.

The FAL has several design features that, while I would rank it second, make it a distant second to the AR10.

#1 is the rear irons. If you wear glasses, the irons are guaranteed to bite them.
#2 is the mag follower/bolt holdopen jam. This occurs when the mag follower slips over the bolt hold open. It results in a jam that will tempt you to destroy the magazine to fix (I've cleared several).
#3 is the design. FALs were designed to be fully-automatic. Making them semi is accomplished by removing the hammer retarder. This results in a gun that is prone to discharge from an unlocked bolt.

The AR10 has none of these failures, plus it has many superior features (which I will leave to others to explain).



1. I have never experienced this or seen it occur.

2. I have never experienced this or seen it occur.

3. Ummm, I don't think so. In fact the British FAL (the L1A1) is semi ONLY in it's design for the military. But as I've never heard of a FAL accidentally discharging under any circumstance I'm not completely famliar with the issue you are trying to raise.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:10:08 PM EDT
HK-91, FAL, AR10

AR-10 for distance applications, HK or the FAL for general applications.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:19:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Why is HK91 not a choice? I would get that before the SOCOM. In fact, in some conditions (desert for example) it may be MORE reliable than the FAL. After I get an SPR, an HK91 is on my list.



+1
What you want is the JLD KTR Paratrooper version. You will thank be later.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:31:39 PM EDT
Go with the DSA FAL. It is a great rifle and it is more compact than the SOCOM 16 or .308 AR.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:33:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 2:37:38 PM EDT by TheMocoMan]
PTR



~whoa~



That's some crazy stuff.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:35:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 2:37:52 PM EDT by slash-5]

Originally Posted By Ardenner:
Why is HK91 not a choice? I would get that before the SOCOM. In fact, in some conditions (desert for example) it may be MORE reliable than the FAL. After I get an SPR, an HK91 is on my list.



Sorry, Charlie. I own both, and there is no beating a FAL for reliability.

Reasons for a FAL:

A Fal (unlike some other 7.62 MBR's):

Has cheap mags. You can get them for $4. (Unlike a M1A1 or an AR-10)
Has a charging handle on the LEFT so you can maintain a firing grip during mag changes (unlike an M1A1)
Has a charging handle placed for easy access (Unlike a HK91)
Has a bolt hold open that activates after your last shot (Unlike an HK91)
Is ergonomically friendly
Does not shit where it eats (unlike an AR-10)
Is not front heavy (like an HK91)
Is very easy to clean (easier than every other platform I have tried)
Is easy to take down
Is available with a forward assist (I have two with this feature)
Is available with real sights (Check out DSA's Para sight. It takes an AR15 aperture)
Has an adjustable gas system for different loads (I love this feature)
Parts are cheap
Furniture is cheap
Barrels are cheap
Actually works well in a shorter package (I have two)
Will feed anything
Recoil is very mild (unlike my HK91)
Is the most reliable weapon system I have ever used
Has been used in 90+ countries around the globe...

ETC.

Do not accept second best. Do it right the first time.

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 2:59:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 3:03:27 PM EDT by twonami]
My SOCOM-16 has been very disappointing so far.

I bought it on 9/11/05 and the first time I shot it, it had extraction issues. Went back to SA and got the gun back in about a week.
When the gun came back I noticed the extractor was replaced, no problem. I shot it at the range and it worked fine. 20 mags worth of ammo and not a single hiccup. Temp 55-60F.

On Saturday I went to the Princeton, MN shoot and the temps were in the teens to low 20's.
The first round fired, extracted but nothing happened when I squeezed the trigger again, WTF?
I pulled back on the operating handle and instead of a bullet being extracted I see a un-fired bullet in the chamber. The "replaced" extractor had failed again and came apart.
After much bitching I put the gun in the bag and would deal with it later.

I bring it to the store and show it to the guy and he is not pleased nor am I. We field strip it and a spring and the firing pin fell out.
I like shooting this gun and will give it one more chance. He swapped it immediately with another brand new SOCOM and I will proceed to shoot the shit out of it on a cold day when I get a chance.
However if it has any malfunctions I will be getting a complete refund and gun store guy has no problems with this at all.

ETA: Even though I am giving this gun it's final chance to please me, I say to stay the hell away from the SOCOM.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:28:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
My SOCOM-16 has been very disappointing so far.

I bought it on 9/11/05 and the first time I shot it, it had extraction issues. Went back to SA and got the gun back in about a week.
When the gun came back I noticed the extractor was replaced, no problem. I shot it at the range and it worked fine. 20 mags worth of ammo and not a single hiccup. Temp 55-60F.

On Saturday I went to the Princeton, MN shoot and the temps were in the teens to low 20's.
The first round fired, extracted but nothing happened when I squeezed the trigger again, WTF?
I pulled back on the operating handle and instead of a bullet being extracted I see a un-fired bullet in the chamber. The "replaced" extractor had failed again and came apart.
After much bitching I put the gun in the bag and would deal with it later.

I bring it to the store and show it to the guy and he is not pleased nor am I. We field strip it and a spring and the firing pin fell out.
I like shooting this gun and will give it one more chance. He swapped it immediately with another brand new SOCOM and I will proceed to shoot the shit out of it on a cold day when I get a chance.
However if it has any malfunctions I will be getting a complete refund and gun store guy has no problems with this at all.

ETA: Even though I am giving this gun it's final chance to please me, I say to stay the hell away from the SOCOM.




As badly as I want an M1A, I've heard too much about the Springfields mysterious bolt "self-disassembly" to be comfortable with it.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:33:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By twonami:
My SOCOM-16 has been very disappointing so far.

I bought it on 9/11/05 and the first time I shot it, it had extraction issues. Went back to SA and got the gun back in about a week.
When the gun came back I noticed the extractor was replaced, no problem. I shot it at the range and it worked fine. 20 mags worth of ammo and not a single hiccup. Temp 55-60F.

On Saturday I went to the Princeton, MN shoot and the temps were in the teens to low 20's.
The first round fired, extracted but nothing happened when I squeezed the trigger again, WTF?
I pulled back on the operating handle and instead of a bullet being extracted I see a un-fired bullet in the chamber. The "replaced" extractor had failed again and came apart.
After much bitching I put the gun in the bag and would deal with it later.

I bring it to the store and show it to the guy and he is not pleased nor am I. We field strip it and a spring and the firing pin fell out.
I like shooting this gun and will give it one more chance. He swapped it immediately with another brand new SOCOM and I will proceed to shoot the shit out of it on a cold day when I get a chance.
However if it has any malfunctions I will be getting a complete refund and gun store guy has no problems with this at all.

ETA: Even though I am giving this gun it's final chance to please me, I say to stay the hell away from the SOCOM.




As badly as I want an M1A, I've heard too much about the Springfields mysterious bolt "self-disassembly" to be comfortable with it.


I used the wrong terminology and it was the bolt that was replaced and also flew apart.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:35:28 PM EDT
Socom 16
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:36:35 PM EDT
I've had two different M1A's, including a Scout and while they are nice firearms, the FAL and AR10 are better in almost every way.

I also had a PTR-91 and sold it in less than 2 weeks. Among other things, I hate the location of the cocking handle.

For an all-around battle rifle, the FAL can not be beat.

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:07:58 PM EDT
CETME!!!

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:12:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
FAL

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:17:31 PM EDT
AR10!

My AR10A4 with S/S barrel and Super Sniper scope.



I also have an AR10T carbine, an A2 rifle, and an A2 carbine.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:45:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
If it's a Colt, it's a copy of an original ArmaLite.



I love it!!!

1 day I will be BADASS in the way of the AR. As for now I just shut my mouth (since I don't know shit)

get me talkin' about computers and were good

great sig man
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:50:56 PM EDT
fal, then get the socom 16
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